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CNN Live At Daybreak

Court Finds Racial-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Aired August 28, 2001 - 07:21   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: There is a trend in education that some might find disturbing and some might find interesting.

A Harvard University study finds that schools in Alabama are more segregated than at any time since 1970. The study says this so-called resegregation trend is found throughout the South. Still, the study's author says Alabama is still doing much better than many northern states, and claims that some of it has to do with choices of African- American students and some by coincidence. And researchers are looking into other factors as well.

VINCE CELLINI, CNN ANCHOR: Well, this is true. And another ruling involving race and education to tell you about -- a federal appeals court says the University of Georgia admissions policy, that gives some students an advantage because of their race, is unconstitutional. This decision raising questions about education that we're looking into all day today.

And with us at CNN is plaintiff Aimee Bogrow and her attorney, Lee Parks, here to discuss the ruling. She was one of the Georgia applicants. And from Washington also discussing this, Janell Byrd- Chichester of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund.

Welcome to everyone.

LEE PARKS, BOGROW'S ATTORNEY: Welcome.

AIMEE BOGROW, PLAINTIFF: Thank you.

CELLINI: Amy, I'm going to start with you first.

Tell us about the genesis of this whole lawsuit, and why you decided to go to court. You felt you were forced to.

BOGROW: Well, we called up, got the total student index. And when it became clear that I was discriminated against on grounds of race and gender, it became clear that I wanted to do something to help other students in my position

(CROSSTALK)

CELLINI: Well, you feel like you were -- excuse me -- you feel like you were initially denied information as to why you were rejected from the university? BOGROW: I don't think I was really denied information. It is there for anybody who wants to call up and get -- and get their total student index.

CELLINI: And, Lee, you came into the picture here. And in your remarks about the ruling in court, you called it kind of borderline quota. You used the word "quota." Can you expand on that?

(CROSSTALK)

LEE PARKS, BOGROW'S ATTORNEY: ... quota. What we learned is that the total student index was a way to generate ten percent non- white enrollment a year. And they manipulated it to do that. That's a quota. They also were seeking a 50-50 class male and female and gave males points over females like Aimee, because women were doing better on the SAT test and were generating about a 58 percent enrollment rate without giving males an advantage. And then those are the twin towers on this -- which this lawsuit is based.

CELLINI: Ms. Byrd-Chichester, what is your initial reaction to the ruling?

JANELL BYRD-CHICHESTER, NAACP LEGAL DEFENSE FUND: Well, of course, we were disappointed by the court's ruling and very disturbed by one fundamental problem with this case, which is that the voices of the beneficiaries of affirmative action -- African-Americans and others -- their voices have not been heard in this case.

The court of appeals approved the trial court's ruling that effectively denied us the opportunity to put on a record about the long history of discrimination at the University of Georgia in the state of Georgia, which still has substantial impacts on the population there and justifies the modest -- I should say -- affirmative action program that the university had in place.

CELLINI: Well, I think the intentions by the university were good, and I think they go along with what you are saying.

But Mr. Parks, do you feel like there was some discrepancy there -- some overstepping there? Or how do you interpret it?

PARKS: Well, not at all. For the last 26 years, Georgia has given an objective numerical preference to minority students to try to rectify their segregated past. So you've got 26 years of an unlevel playing field. There's just at some point in time you've got to take away the artificial construct and say, let's all play ball on a level playing field.

CELLINI: Do you think that these cases vary from university to university, Ms. Byrd-Chichester?

BYRD-CHICHESTER: Of course, they do. Each university is different, and they have different admissions and purposes. But here, we have public institutions funded by tax dollars, which are not only currently with the use of affirmative action have very low levels of minority students, which in those numbers we expect a decline once this ruling takes affect.

So there is a very -- not only are universities individual, but we see here public institutions supported by all of us, which are now being available primarily to one sector of the population.

CELLINI: I think Mr. Parks wants to respond. Just -- I wanted to read a university statement, and then I will allow you to respond.

This is from Michael F. Adams, the University of Georgia president, who says -- it reads: "Sometimes you are defined by the battles in which you engage rather than by those you win. We are clearly disappointed in the court's decision. We certainly respect the court, but may have a differing opinion about whether the university's admissions program is narrowly tailored. I would hesitate to say anything further until we have had in-depth consultation with legal counsel, the chancellor and the governor's office."

Your response.

PARKS: Well, the idea that you've got low levels of minority participation at the University of Georgia -- you've got to look at the pool who is applying. The applicant poll is less than 12 percent. Secondly, what Georgia has to face -- the University of Georgia has to face is that most of the best and brightest minority students are going out of state. They are not an attractive school from a cultural point of view and from a perception point of view.

CELLINI: Very quickly, Aimee, what do you think you have learned from this entire experience? And you are getting ready to go to Georgia.

BOGROW: Yes.

CELLINI: What do you think you have learned?

BOGROW: I have been going to Georgia. From what I have learned on the campus itself for most (ph) diversity in a big way. It's literally forced down student's throats. Either that's because of the case or with that (ph) I actually applaud their usage of diversity. I just think that they can go about it a little bit better than this.

CELLINI: Aimee Bogrow, Lee Parks, Janell Byrd-Chichester -- thank you very much, all of you for joining us...

BYRD-CHICHESTER: You're welcome.

CELLINI: ... to discuss this. We appreciate your time.

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