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CNN Live At Daybreak

Immigration Key Issue at State Meeting

Aired September 05, 2001 - 08:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: A key issue facing the presidents of Mexico and the United States will be immigration.

You know, millions of Mexicans flee to this country for better opportunities, and one of them is man now famous as the Tomato King. A man who arrived in this country in the trunk of a car has Hollywood interested in a movie starring Antonio Banderas.

CNN's Harris Whitbeck makes the introduction.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He left this town a poor man and has returned triumphant.

ANDRES BERMUDEZ, THE TOMATO KING: And I don't like the way my grandfather lived. I don't -- I see my father's life, and I see myself. And I say, well, this life what I live right now in Mexico, I don't want this for my sons. I want a better future. That's the reason that I go to the United States, you know.

WHITBECK: Andres Bermudez says that vision of a better future drew him to Los Angeles in 1973, crossing the U.S. border in the trunk of a car.

BERMUDEZ: When I went over there, and I see the city, lights all over, big city, I say, what am I going to do here? I'm scared. I tell you the truth (ph), I was scared at that time.

WHITBECK: He started out picking fruit in California's orchids, one of thousands of illegal farm laborers from Mexico. He worked hard, eventually becoming a labor contractor going back to his town in Mexico to recruit workers to move north.

And then, he struck gold -- inventing a tomato picking machine that helped him become the second largest tomato producer in the United States.

BERMUDEZ: And everything is luck. But the luck, you've got to look for the luck. The luck no come itself. I think my success is because I am -- everywhere I go, I try to be the first one.

WHITBECK: Now, Bermudez says he also wants to be first in Mexican politics. He came back home and won election as mayor of his hometown Jerez. Bermudez hopes to create jobs so people won't be forced to move north. And, he says, as presidents Vicente Fox and George W. Bush begin talks on increasing the number of temporary work permits for Mexicans, they should also be looking at ways to make immigration more humane.

BERMUDEZ: I go straight to Bush and then say, well, Mr. Bush -- Mr. President, you told everybody, you told everywhere, I am your best neighbor. I am your brother country. But you don't treat me like brother. You don't treat me like nice neighbor. You know, if I am your brother, your brother don't send brothers to die in the desert. Your brother don't send people to die in the snow and the cold.

WHITBECK: Last year, about 500 Mexicans died trying to enter the United States, chasing dreams of the success achieved by people like Andres Bermudez.

Harris Whitbeck, CNN, Jerez, Mexico.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, Mexico's president, Vicente Fox, promised his voters that he would open borders with the United States. And President Bush may consider giving amnesty to three million illegal immigrants already here. Those two men meet today.

And we debate the issue with Aisha Qaasim, an attorney with the Mexican-American Legal Defense Fund -- it's fair to say that I think she is for immigration of Mexican immigrants -- and Jennifer Denson of the Federation for Immigration Reform -- I think it's fair to say that this group, FIR, is looking for certain amount of immigration controls.

Welcome to both of you.

JENNIFER DENSON, FEDERATION FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM: Thank you.

AISHA QAASIM, MEXICAN-AMERICAN LEGAL DEFENSE FUND: Good morning. Thank you.

LIN: Jennifer, let me begin with you. You saw the story there of Andres Bermudez.

Is this a good example of why there should be open borders, and how Mexican immigrants who are working in the United States can help benefit the poor people back in their home country, and that may then control illegal immigration?

DENSON: Well, actually, what struck me most about that story is how he went back home with the desire to help develop Mexico and make it a better country.

And I think if President Fox really wanted to help Mexico and help the Mexican economy, instead of asking for the U.S. to allow more guest workers or amnesty to the 11 million illegal aliens who are here in the country right now, I think he would be trying to encourage the current illegal aliens in the United States to come back to Mexico. They have jobs experience, they have learned skills. They should come back -- go back to Mexico and help grow the Mexican economy. I think that is really what struck me the most out of the story about the Tomato King.

LIN: Aisha?

QAASIM: Well, actually that is -- I think the story you just showed was one example of an immigrant that came and made a significant contribution, not only to our economy here in local communities in the United States, but also to his community in Mexico. And the reality is that there are significant numbers of immigrants that are living here without legal status that have made similar contributions. They have started families that work every day at a job that pay taxes. And they deserve an opportunity to do that in a legitimate way and contribute even more significantly to our economy and our societies as well.

LIN: Jennifer, isn't it...

DENSON: I have...

LIN: ... already true though -- I mean, at least three million -- you say 11 million illegal immigrants already -- but certainly three million at least from Mexico already here in the United States. Half the agricultural workers in the United States are suspected to be illegal.

Isn't it true that the system needs to catch up to the reality?

DENSON: Do you mean as far as supposed labor shortages in the United States?

LIN: There are already here. They are already here, they are already working. And many of them are already paying taxes.

DENSON: But, you know, you -- well, how much do they pay in taxes when you're making a barely minimum wage is debatable. I think we have to think about the fact that they have come here illegally. And yes, it is three to six million illegal Mexicans and perhaps, you know, the whole number is about more like 11 million from all different countries.

People have come here illegally. They have broken the law. They have jumped in line of millions of people waiting legally to come to the United States. I mean, basically if you reward these lawbreakers -- these people who are living here illegally, who are very free to return back to their homelands and be successful and invent tomato pickers back in their home countries -- which maybe would be even more helpful there -- you really have an opportunity now to say, go back home. Take care of your -- work in your own country rather than hurting the American taxpayer, who is forced to pay for the costs associated with illegal immigration.

LIN: Aisha, you know, that's a fair point. I mean, are they -- are Mexican immigrants jumping the line if they get amnesty or if they get special privileges if President Bush considers that over, say, Russian immigrants or Chinese immigrants, who are trying to reunite with their families as well as others?

QAASIM: Well, what is actually needed is a comprehensive reform of our entire immigration system. There also needs to be some reforms that make it easier for family members that are U.S. citizens or illegal permanent residents to bring their family member to reunite with them here in the country.

A recent study released by UCLA estimates the contribution of just the undocumented immigrant population at $300 billion per year or annually. And what a legalization program would reward would be, in fact, these contributions that they make to our society.

And there are not just economic contributions. I mean, immigrants play a significant role in our neighborhoods, in our families, in our schools, in our churches. The reality is that we are looking for realistic immigration reform that not only deals with that reality, but looks at future migration, looks at the needs of the labor market and treats people....

LIN: Well, how many people do you think should be allowed to enter from Mexico then? Do you have a number?

QAASIM: Well, I don't think we can talk about it in terms of a flat number. Before we can even talk about people entering -- I am assuming you are speaking of some kind of temporary worker program -- we need to talk about the people that are already here, that are already working, that are living this clandestine existence even though industry requires them that our businesses need them to function. And once we address that population, then we can look at, you know, options for new mechanisms to regulate...

LIN: All right.

QAASIM: ... migration across the border.

DENSON: You know, to say that we

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Jennifer, you get the last word here. Go ahead.

DENSON: To say that we shouldn't talk about a limit, that's crazy. The majority of Americans feel that we should not be rewarding illegal immigration. We should not be giving amnesty or having a massive guest worker program, because it hurts American taxpayers and American working families. And that UCLA study of $300 billion -- hey, Rice University produced a study a couple of years ago: illegal immigration costs $20 billion to the American taxpayer.

LIN: Jennifer Denson, I'm afraid you will get the last word there -- Aisha Qaasim -- thank you very much for joining us.

DENSON: Thank you. QAASIM: Thank you for having me.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: For our audience, we did take a CNN-USA Today Gallup Poll on American public opinion on how tough the administration should be on immigration and asked whether it should be easier for illegal immigrants to become U.S. citizens; 67 percent said no; 28 percent said yes. The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus four percentage points, which is pretty average for these kinds of poll.

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