Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live At Daybreak

America Under Attack: Former Middle East Envoy Gives Insight into Developing Intelligence

Aired September 12, 2001 - 08:45   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAUN, CNN ANCHOR: Right now I am joined by Dennis Ross, who is the former special envoy to -- in the Middle East. He served in the Clinton administration.

Welcome, sir. Good to have you with us this morning.

DENNIS ROSS, FMR. U.S. MIDEAST ENVOY: Thank you.

ZAUN: I wanted you to provide some context for us today. Yesterday, we saw some groups of Palestinians celebrating in east Jerusalem and in the West Bank and declaring this as a victory against Israel. How widely held of a view is that among Palestinians?

ROSS: I think today it's probably wider than many Palestinian officials would suggest that it is. I mean, you are dealing in a climate where there's a lot of anger among the Palestinians and a desire to hit back. But there's also a climate that has been created by their leadership. You cannot continually talk about the virtues of martyrhood, you cannot continually talk about the importance of struggle, and you cannot continually extol the virtues of the suicide bombers, and talk about how the United States must also pay without there being a consequence in terms of attitudes.

One of the things that is going to have to be done, not only with the Palestinians, but with many of the Arab regimes that the are friendly to the United States, they cannot continue to use their media as a release for the outrage and for the anger, and therefore allow, within those medias, which basically are not free, except to dispute (ph) certain hatred, they cannot use those medias to create a climate of legitimacy for this kind of behaviors, and that is what they have done.

ZAUN: How are you going to stop that from happening?

ROSS: Well, one of the ways is, if in fact these governments, especially in the Middle East, among our Arab friends, wants us to be engaged in terms of pursuing diplomacy at an appropriate moment, there's also going to have to be an understanding that there's no free lunch here. They have responsibilities too. And one of the ways that they can carry out their responsibilities is to make it clear this behavior does not represent their cause, it discredits their cause, and, in fact, if they want the world to identify with their interests, they're going to have to behave differently. ZAUN: All right. But the bottom line is a lot of people think that U.S. policy in the Middle East makes us -- or make the United States much more vulnerable to attack. Is that true?

ROSS: Well, there's no question right now that there is anger that is obviously directed against us because of the frustration of what is going in the conflict. And again, I will tell you, if we had been able, as we were trying to do last year, to end the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians last year, the people who carried out this attack would have done it anyway. They don't believe in peace. They don't believe in Israel's existence. They reject everything that we represent.

So one of the things that has to happen is these groups have to be completely discredited.

ZAUN: And you have any level of optimism that will happen?

ROSS: Well, I think we all have to transform our own thinking. Yesterday was a transforming event. We're going to have to create a new priority in terms of the war on terror. We're going to have to create a very different kind of coalition internationally that focuses on how, in fact, we all work together to discredit this practically and psychologically. And I think also whatever it is we're going to do militarily has to take a long view about rooting out the real networks that exist.

But I don't think one can simply sit back and say, because the task is difficult we can't take it on. We've now been confronted with something that is so dramatic, that is worse than any war we've confronted, in terms of casualties in any single day, our own thinking is going to have to change as well.

ZAUN: I know that Henry Kissinger stated yesterday that this is the time the United States is going to find out that true level of friendships with other nations. How critical is any role that Russia might play in this?

ROSS: Well, I do believe the Russians have some capability when it comes to fighting terror and also there is a history of some relations they have with some of the groups in the area. In the past it would have been more profound because in fact they tended to support those groups. Now I think it's less profound.

But in terms of creating a psychological atmosphere internationally, the more the Russians, the more the Europeans are seen as joining with us in terms of making it clear this behavior is not simply unacceptable, but it won't be tolerated, and those states that give a kind of safe haven are also not going to be tolerated. The more that that happens, the more we'll be moving in the right direction.

ZAUN: Dennis, if you would be generous enough to stand by, I want to continue my conversation with you.

But I want to remind our audience, it was just about 24 hours ago, and we're going to replay some pictures here, of the first hijacked-commercial airliner that struck the north tower here in New York City. Actually, this is the picture of the south tower, which was the second attack that came 18 minutes later.

Once again, this just starting to come to grips with the impact of this double attack here yesterday.

Dennis, Secretary of State Colin Powell was a guest on the air earlier this morning and bristled when I asked him about Senator Orrin Hatch's assessment that the U.S. intelligence has now intercepted communications between bin Laden supporters actually discussing the attacks -- bristles may be too strong of a word, but I think he made it quite clear he is extremely uncomfortable that Senator Orrin Hatch is talking about any of this intelligence information. You understand that, I guess?

ROSS: Yes, I do.

Well, look, I think there are two dimensions to that. The first is we obviously have certain kinds of techniques and methods which we don't want compromised, because if they get compromised then you lose a capacity to the use those. And obviously, right now, what we're trying to do in the intelligence area is figure out exactly what happened.

Look back at what might have been indicators that were discounted because they were not seen as plausible and then pursue those leads. So anything that compromises the ability to find out what happened is obviously something that's going to be in our interest, number one.

ZAUN: All right, but Dennis, do you have reason to believe these communications were actually intercepted, showing? I mean, we know that an Arab newspaper based in London, I think at least the editor had it reported that these attacks were telegraphed as long as three weeks ago. Do you believe the intelligence information?

ROSS: My sense at this point is we don't really know. And the tendency is to leap to conclusion because we all want to know in response to such a horrific set of events.

I would just tell you from a historic standpoint, we were convinced earlier on that with Pan Am 103 it was groups based in Syria. Later on we found out that it wasn't.

It may well be that the speculation about Osama bin Laden turns out to be right, but I think we really do have to be cautious at this point. The people who carried this out not only had great organization, they had people who could fly these planes; that's not something that is normally associated with the Osama bin Laden group.

So I think one has to be somewhat cautious, and I think that Secretary Powell's reaction was entirely appropriate.

ZAUN: All right, Dennis Ross, thank you very much for all your insights this morning. We very much appreciate you're joining us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com