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CNN Live At Daybreak
America's New War: Negotiations in Afghanistan
Aired September 18, 2001 - 08:13 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me right now is Richard Murphy -- Ambassador Richard Murphy, who is now the senior fellow for the Middle East the Council on Foreign Relations. He served, among others, as ambassador to Syria, Saudi Arabia, and you were the former assistant secretary of state to the Far East.
Welcome -- good to have you with us this morning.
RICHARD MURPHY, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO SYRIA, SAUDI ARABIA: Thanks.
ZAHN: What incentive does the Taliban have right now to in any way honor the demand of the Pakistanis to turn over Osama bin Laden?
MURPHY: I think the key influence on the Taliban right now is the Pakistani link. Pakistanis have been the main rung for the Taliban and to Afghanistan over the last several years as they lost one supporter after another internationally. The head of the delegation is the head of military intelligence, the patron in the sense of the Taliban these last years. So his words will carry weight as few other men will be listened to in Kabul or in Kandahar today.
ZAHN: So is it only the financial leverage that the Pakistanis have over ...
MURPHY: No.
ZAHN: ... the Taliban at this moment?
MURPHY: No, no, no, not at all. It's an important link. I mean, Pakistan supplies the fuel, the grain, the timber. But it's the very connection with the outside world, which isn't valued very much by the Taliban leadership, but it is Pakistan in Taliban eyes that have the only voice that they can listen to.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: So give us some insights -- and I know this is hard to understand for so many thousands of miles away -- what might be taking place between the religious leaders of the Taliban, as they sit down today again for the second day in a row with this Pakistani delegation.
MURPHY: Well, the demands we've heard are that if he is to be extradited, there should be proof -- there should be documentary proof. If he is to be extradited, it should not be to the United States. If he is to be extradited, there should be a Muslim judge trying him or hearing the evidence.
And the basic reaction has been from the top leadership, we don't want to extradite him. We owe him a great deal. We owe him hospitality, our protection, et cetera, et cetera. So you hear a confused story coming out of the Afghan leadership at the moment -- suggestions that they're not of one mind and that basically perhaps they don't want to see their country further damaged physically, economically than it already has been.
ZAHN: You have made a number of very important points there. Do you see any compromise in that very muddy arena...
MURPHY: There's always...
ZAHN: ... coming from the Taliban?
MURPHY: ... there's always room for compromise. And I think that although they don't in general terms give much of a heed to world opinion, as you witnessed last year over the destruction of those statues of Buddha. They couldn't have cared less. It was a graven image, and it should be destroyed. And they didn't listen to the Secretary General of the U.N. or to Muslim ambassadors or to anybody on that.
So they're going to be very, very cautious in listening, but the threat to their leadership, to their people -- they weren't up to office -- they didn't fight their way to office to destroy their own country, and that's the choice that's in their hand at this point.
ZAHN: Now that both Secretary of State Powell and President Bush have called Osama bin Laden the prime suspect, are you confident that the U.S. government will be able to deliver evidence to the Taliban that will convince them that this is the right thing to do?
MURPHY: Nobody can say at this moment what will convince the Taliban. But what they are able to produce is evidence linking the Al Qaeda, the organization that has been built up, at least in the name of Osama bin Laden, evidence going back to 1993 or the first move on the World Trade Center; evidence going back to the millennium attack or a planned attack in Jordan; evidence going back to the '98 blowing up of our embassies.
ZAHN: Well, we have time for one last question; we need a quick answer to that: How do you think this will be resolved?
MURPHY: I think there will be a lot of tough bargaining and hard listening, and I am hopeful that the Pakistanis are going to bring home to Pakistan the word that the Taliban will produce Osama.
ZAHN: And we know that Pakistani delegation will be headed back to Pakistan later today, and we have Christiane Amanpour on the ground there to give us an update on what she learns.
Ambassador Murphy, thank you very much for your time this morning.
MURPHY: Thank you.
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