Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live At Daybreak

America's New War: Kissinger's Views on Afghanistan and Mideast Situations

Aired September 28, 2001 - 08:09   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Former Secretary of State Dr. Henry Kissinger joins us now to talk about the diplomatic moves that are a part of America's war on terrorism. Mr. Kissinger, of course, was Secretary of State under Presidents Nixon and Ford.

Welcome back, good to have you with us this morning.

DR. HENRY KISSINGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be here.

ZAHN: What do you make of this second Pakistani delegation now meeting with Taliban leaders trying to convince them to turn over Osama bin Laden? Is it going to go anywhere?

KISSINGER: Well, of course I believe that if they were to turn him over it wouldn't solve our problem. I think he's a symbol. He's not the only cause and by now probably not -- maybe not even the principal cause.

ZAHN: But it certainly would be a start in sort of dismantling any potential air strikes or any kind of strikes on Afghanistan.

KISSINGER: It would be -- well, it would be. I don't think they'll -- I don't think they'll turn him over. I think it would be a symbolic gesture and it would be a success, but we should not focus it on one individual. I've said this from the first day of this crisis.

ZAHN: But as we continue to focus on this individual for the next minute or two, I guess the question I have for you, there are all indications that the Taliban leadership is weakening at the moment. There are reports of soldiers leading their -- leaving their guard posts, abandoning the cities for the countries -- countryside. Is it possible that you could see so severe an unraveling of this structure that a military strike might not be necessary?

KISSINGER: I don't know enough about the situation to judge this. And I don't know whether this unraveling of the Taliban structure is not a way for them to get into the guerrilla mode, which is what they do best. I don't think that they would defend cities if we went into -- when we go -- if we go into Afghanistan. I think they would fight the way they normally fight, go into the hills, let the cities be kept by the foreigners but make life in the countryside impossible. And I don't think we would want to get into a position where we have to occupy Afghanistan, even the cities, on any permanent basis. I am not -- I think entering Afghanistan, nobody has ever come out of there with great success.

ZAHN: There have been reports this morning that U.S. special services and forces have been on the ground now for two weeks in Afghanistan, what does that suggest to you?

KISSINGER: Well, I think if we can achieve the dismantlement of the Taliban and remove Afghanistan as the center of terrorist activities, it would probably not be possible to root out every last activity that's going on there, but if the governing group in Afghanistan no longer supports it, that would be significant progress. And as I said before, it's not the end of the problem.

ZAHN: You continue to warn against over-personalizing this.

KISSINGER: Absolutely, I think...

ZAHN: This is not all about Osama bin Laden.

KISSINGER: Yes.

ZAHN: So...

KISSINGER: But I think if in a measurable time the Taliban disappears and bin Laden is captured or killed, then I think it will be a significant success.

ZAHN: The president has made it clear either you're with us, America, or you're with the terrorists. Potentially, how many countries are we talking about that could be subjected to potential military strikes, particularly if harboring terrorists will net the same kind of punishment as actually overtly sponsoring them?

KISSINGER: I think any country that has headquarters of terrorists organizations or training camps of terrorist organizations has to expect that there will be massive pressure applied, cumulating perhaps in military operations but not necessarily beginning in them.

ZAHN: So you're talking what, Syria, Iraq?

KISSINGER: Well, I don't want to necessarily name the countries that are involved, but you can't hide the headquarters of a terrorist organization. And I think one of the first steps ought to be that the alliance publishes a list of those countries which in their view are harboring terrorist organizations.

The second thing that has to -- that can be done immediately is for these governments, for any government that has state-supported media to stop encouraging terrorism on its state-supported media. That's a very objective criterion (ph), and so it is to assist in the -- in cutting off the flow of funds into the groups that have been supporting terrorism.

Our strategic objective has to be to -- you can't catch every last terrorist quickly but you can reduce them to acting like individual criminals rather than as part of a network and they have to spend most of their time in surviving and rather than be part of a structure that mutually supports each other. And that is something that we have to achieve in a reasonable time.

ZAHN: I have to quickly move you on to the Middle East. Today, of course, the one-year anniversary of the Palestinian uprising. The cease-fire is, I guess you'd have to call it this -- it is a fledgling cease-fire this morning, what do you expect to happen?

KISSINGER: Well, I expect that at some point in the not too distant future there will be a negotiation about meaningful objectives. The last time they had a negotiation it was to achieve permanent peace. Permanent peace in the Middle East when so many religious issues are involved and so many fundamental issues it's meaningless and it brings out all the radicalism on each side (INAUDIBLE), especially on the Arab side. I think one can achieve a cease-fire. One can probably achieve an interim agreement and a number of the objectives of the Mitchell report can be achieved if we make -- have more modest objectives. I think that is doable within say a six-month period.

ZAHN: Dr. Henry Kissinger, as always, good to see you.

KISSINGER: Good to be here.

ZAHN: Appreciate you joining us this morning.

KISSINGER: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com