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CNN Live At Daybreak

America's New War: Refugee Crisis; Afghanistan Fighting

Aired October 01, 2001 - 07:11   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning the Taliban are again refusing to hand of Osama bin Laden, as the U.S. continues to demand. They insist bin Laden is under their control, however.

CNN's Tom Mintier is in Islamabad, Pakistan. He has the latest on bin Laden as well as the growing refugee crisis as a result of all this -- Tom.

TOM MINTIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles.

As we heard just a few moments ago from Major Garrett at the White House, the United States willing to chip in $100 million. Now, the U.N. has put out a plea for $584 million, most of it not raised yet, to deal with the impending crisis along the border with Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iran and Afghanistan.

There have only been about 15,000 people who have made it through the checkpoints since September 11, but tens of thousands more may be coming across the mountain hillsides, very difficult terrain, trying to make their way into Pakistan. Extremely difficult conditions in the camps. There are already two million people on the ground here in Pakistan. There is the possibility of another million and a half or two million might be on the move if military action is launched against Afghanistan.

So the U.N.'s chief relief coordinator is on the ground here for meetings. He will go out to the border areas tomorrow to assess the situation.

Over the weekend, several flights into Islamabad trucking in supplies, tents, tarpaulins, medical supplies, food, all items that are necessary to run these operations. They've also looked at 100 sites along the Pakistani-Afghanistan border, trying to find a place where they can put up new camps. Pakistan has been resistant to putting more people in the existing camps because they're already overcrowded. So they have been out looking at sites. But water is going to be, as it always is, a critical consideration.

At one location they found that the nearest water table was one kilometer below ground. So in many of these cases where they put camps in the mountainous areas along the border, they will have to truck water in, which will be very, very expensive and time consuming.

But they are bracing here for what may be a catastrophe beyond measurement. If, indeed, people come out of Afghanistan in very, very large numbers it's going to be difficult for them to deal with them here on the ground -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, Tom.

All kinds of ripple effects there.

Back to bin Laden for a moment. The Taliban says that bin Laden is under their control. Any indication in that same statement as to where he might be?

MINTIER: Well, absolutely not. They are saying that he is at a secret location only known to a few security officials in the Taliban. Now, this really makes a major reversal of position by the Taliban. They had been saying for days they simply didn't know where he was. There was a message to be delivered to him by the religious clerics in Afghanistan that he should leave the country. This was a message they said they were unable to deliver.

But just about 12 hours ago, the Taliban ambassador here says we know where he is. We have him. We have control of him. When I talked to the ambassador late last night, I asked him if he was under house arrest, under detention. And he wouldn't answer that, just saying that he is under the control of the emirates of Afghanistan, an indication that the Taliban are really controlling where he goes, who sees him, something they've insisted all along in the last couple of months have been the case.

But this is a clear reversal of opinion, saying that they didn't know where he was to now they know where he is and he is under their control -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Tom, one more question.

The Taliban have said they might be interested in some sort of negotiation regarding Mr. Bin Laden. But one of the questions which comes up here is who is controlling whom here? We're assuming that the Taliban is controlling bin Laden. Could it be the other way around?

MINTIER: Well, it's quite possible. I mean you never know what's going on behind-the-scenes and this offer of negotiation really had a lot of preset conditions to it, whether the evidence would be provided to the Taliban, something the United States says they won't do.

So at the end of it all they say that it's not likely that he's going to be handed over any time soon, if at all.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Tom Mintier in Islamabad, thanks much.

There's more fighting across the border in Afghanistan and there's word the Taliban have retaken some territory from the Northern Alliance today.

CNN's Chris Burns joining us live from northern Afghanistan with the latest from there -- Chris.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, well, hello.

That fighting is going inch by inch, village by village, and sometimes back and forth, as you say. The Northern Alliance had said earlier this morning that they had taken the town of Kadis (ph) in the northeast. However, a later wire report said that the Taliban claims to have taken it back. That is for the second or third time, fighting that also, in which the Northern Alliance says that 200 Taliban fighters defected along with 19 of their commanders over to the other side and that they had captured 30 Taliban fighters and one commander. This all, of course, very difficult to confirm from our side, the Taliban not commenting on that aspect.

In another village called Namak Koh, that is up in the north, the Taliban, the Taliban were repelled, according to the Northern Alliance. And the Alliance claims to have killed four Taliban fighters. Again, no comment from the Taliban and difficult for us to confirm that, although this all does indicate that the fighting goes on fiercely, continues on fiercely and the question is, though, is it going anywhere. The Northern Alliance has been battling with the Taliban for the last five years, since they were kicked out of power in Kabul by the Taliban five years ago, and now they're trying to fight their way back. But it's a very, very slow, painstaking process.

They are hoping for American help and that, perhaps, might be coming in the future. Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Chris Burns live from territory controlled by the Northern Alliance.

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