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Target: Terrorism - U.N.'s New Measures to Fight Terrorism

Aired October 01, 2001 - 08:17   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The United Nations today begins a weeklong debate on measures to fight world terrorism.

Joining us now to talk about the U.N.'s role is Richard Holbrooke, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.

Good to see you again, welcome.

RICHARD HOLBROOKE, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: Hi, Paula.

ZAHN: What do you expect to come out of this weeklong series of meetings?

HOLBROOKE: Well, the U.N.'s role in this is important because there are a lot of countries, not the NATO countries which have the right to act in self-defense without U.N. approval, but the other countries who are going to ask for U.N. legitimacy for anything they do. The U.S. is going to go for tightening anti-terrorism efforts and many other resolutions and they have an important role to play.

ZAHN: Which countries are you talking about specifically?

HOLBROOKE: I think it's the moderate Arab countries that -- moderate Muslim countries that most need the U.N. resolution, as do China and Russia. Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Russia, China, these are all countries who because they're not members of NATO and they attach enormous importance to security council resolutions look to that to give them cover for supporting us.

There's one country, however, Paula, which really does concern me and that's Egypt. The Pakistanis have taken a bold and brave move in supporting the American-led coalition and they deserve great credit for it. Other countries, including Saudi Arabia which broke ties with the Taliban, Uzbekistan which is cooperating with us and several others we've moved on, even Sudan, but the silence from Cairo, the largest Arab country -- Arab city in the world, I think is ominous and I don't know what to make of it.

ZAHN: Can you try to tell us what you think this morning about that?

HOLBROOKE: Well, I think -- I think President -- I think President Mubarak is worried. He knows that Osama bin Laden and his people, especially bin Laden's No. 2 who is Egyptian, are the same group of men and the same movement that killed his predecessor President Anwar Sadat in 1981. And I think the silence from Egypt here, the fact that Egypt hasn't come clearly down in support of the United States after all these years and all the aid that Egypt has received from us is something that we ought to be concerned about right now. Otherwise, the administration has done an excellent job of pulling the coalition together, but the silence from Cairo or the relative silence is a legitimate cause for our concern right now.

ZAHN: And are you aware of any talks that we might not be aware of that are currently going on between U.S. administration officials and Egyptian officials?

HOLBROOKE: I think the talks with Egypt are intensive, but no, I'm not aware of any talks you're not aware of.

ZAHN: And what kind of assurances does the United States need right now from Egypt and if you could help us better understand Egypt's key concern as well?

HOLBROOKE: Look, let's back off from the specificity in Egypt because I've said what's clear about Egypt which is that anyone who's watching can tell that there's something in Cairo in their cry. I think that what I've been told by people who follow the Egyptians carefully is that they're so angry over the situation in the Mideast itself that they're holding back approval, but they may also be scared of the situation based on their own vulnerability.

But let's talk about your original question about the U.N. and about the moderate Muslim states. These countries that we need to join us in this war on terrorism have all sorts of internal problems of their own and the administration is trying to win them over one by one and each one is a special case. Uzbekistan presents one set of problems, Sudan another. The administration made a huge switch in American policy toward Sudan last week when they allowed the sanctions on travel by Sudanese officials to be lifted by the U.N. without American opposition. Now that was because Sudan is where Osama bin Laden had been hiding up until 1996 or '98 when, under American pressure, he left Sudan and took off for Afghanistan again.

Building a coalition is extremely difficult. The administration has done a good job so far but they've got a long way to go, and I point to Egypt as a cause of legitimate concern. While the Jordanian King Abdallah was with President Bush on Friday pledging support, while Pakistan President Musharraf has made his statements, including his interview with Christiane Amanpour yesterday, we haven't seen comparable things from Mubarak.

ZAHN: If you could, before we let you go this morning, help us better understand what's going on in Saudi Arabia? The Associated Press is reporting that its defense minister said no troops would be allowed to use bases in his nation to launch any sort of attacks against the Taliban or Osama bin Laden and then another account says that no one has asked the defense minister for that permission.

HOLBROOKE: I think both statements are true and neither statement is definitive. What you've got in Saudi Arabia is a situation which is gradually going to clarify as it did 10 years ago in the run up to Desert Storm. The Saudis know very well that Osama bin Laden and the extremists are a direct threat to their regime and they would like nothing better than to see us succeed. At the same time, they can't be the leaders of the band. They have to be brought along inch by inch. Their ambassador in Washington, Prince Bandar, who is probably one of the most influential ambassadors ever to serve in this city, has close ties to the administration. He and the administration will work it out in the end.

My own guess is that the Saudis will allow the Untied States to use the facilities in Saudi Arabia for the things we need to use them for. But at this point, since the administration hasn't yet defined its precise needs, there hasn't been a formal request and I think that's how you square the circle between your two statements. There is a third statement, one of the Saudi officials yesterday, I think it was the foreign minister, said Saudi Arabia will do its duty, which I think means they will work closely with us when push comes to shove.

ZAHN: Ambassador Holbrooke, always good to see you. We appreciate your perspective here this morning.

HOLBROOKE: Good to see you, Paula.

ZAHN: Lots of very complicated information to try to sort through.

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