Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live At Daybreak
Target: Terrorism - The U.S. and Afghanistan
Aired October 02, 2001 - 07:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: In the wake of the September 11 attacks, we've been learning an awful lot about U.S. policy as it relates to Afghanistan, some of its failures, some of its successes. For a little more on that we're joined by the last U.S. ambassador to Kabul, Peter Tomsen, joining us live now. Good to have you with us Mr. Tomsen.
PETER TOMSEN, FORMER U.S. ENVOY TO AFGHANISTAN: Glad to be here.
O'BRIEN: Let's do, if you don't mind, a little Tuesday morning quarterbacking, if you will. Where did the U.S. policy fail as it relates to Afghanistan? A lot of money spent there, a lot of effort in the days when the Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan. By my read of it you get the sense that the U.S. pretty much turned its back to that country after the Soviet Union left.
TOMSEN: If you look at the last, say, 25 years, U.S. policy did not completely fail, of course, because we contributed the wherewithal for the Mujahideen to defeat the Soviets inside Afghanistan. And it was the last major combat of the cold war and contributed to the collapse of the Soviet empire.
Where we failed was that we didn't stick with it. In '92 we walked away from it. In effect, although the Afghans fought and died, over a million died, over a million were disabled, five million were refugees, we did walk away and we did not assist them in reclaiming their country. Others came in, including the international terrorist network, Osama bin Laden, radical Pakistani political parties, other radical elements from the Gulf, and set up this monster which now is in Afghanistan. And we're faced with a basically similar situation where the great majority of Afghans oppose this alien force just as much as they opposed the Soviets. They're asking for our assistance and we're going to give it and we're going to be successful, in my opinion.
However, this time I hope that we help the Afghans reclaim their country and for the first time since the Soviet invasion get a chance to establish a truly legitimate Afghan government and not one that's imposed from the outside.
O'BRIEN: All right, a lot of the play here, this is a bit of a case study in perhaps taking a longer range view of diplomacy. It appears that did not happen. Hindsight is 20-20. Is it possible we could have stemmed the rise of the Taliban, the U.S. could have stemmed the rise of the Taliban if it had stayed more engaged with Afghanistan post-Soviets?
TOMSEN: Absolutely. I want to balance this with the success. We can't forget that we did have a successful policy in Afghanistan with the ordinance that we sent to the Mujahadeen to defeat the Soviets. Let's not forget that. But on the other side, the massive failure was that we didn't stick around. We deferred to Pakistan, whose military intelligence ran Pakistan's Afghanistan policy. They cooperated with Osama bin Laden, the other extremists and created one Islamic extremist to rule from Kabul. That didn't work so they created the Taliban and that did work.
So you have an international terrorist network inside Afghanistan and one part of it has been the ISI, the military intelligence of Pakistan, which oversees the infrastructure along the Pakistan-Afghan border, through which not only money and personnel run, but also weapons, aviation fuel for the Taliban air force. It seems, though, like the president of Pakistan is proceeding very constructively and pragmatically now. You, no doubt, noticed the statement that he made to a British journalist that the Taliban days appear to be numbered.
So there is a chance that Pakistan will follow a policy, along with the international community, that rids Afghanistan of this alien implant, this extremism that's come in from the Gulf.
O'BRIEN: If you accept for a moment the premise that the Taliban's days are numbered, the question that comes up is what are the alternatives? You've met with the deposed monarch of Afghanistan, currently in exile in Italy. Is he a viable alternative for people in Afghanistan?
TOMSEN: He should not be exaggerated in terms of what he can contribute. Nonetheless, he has great potential. I visited him twice in the last two months and talked to him and his adviser at great length about this scenario that's unfolding now. In 1929, an exiled Afghan king came back to Afghanistan after an insurrection in Kabul. That Afghan king went to British India, came through British India, up to Peshawar, went across the border into Afghanistan and with the tribes in Afghanistan just in a matter of weeks retook Kabul.
A fresh wind now is blowing inside Afghanistan, like when the Soviets left, like in 1992. the window of opportunity is there. When the king, the king has said he's going back. He's announced this publicly. He's also announced the creation of a broad-based military council and a broad-based political council. If all of this comes together right and if the timing is right, it is highly possible that the king could sweep back to Kabul with the support of the majority of the Afghan people, but only as a ceremonial figurehead. The monarchy is gone.
Hopefully they can put together an interim regime that will replace the Taliban and be there for the post-Taliban reconstruction period.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Tomsen, one final question for you. Do you have the sense that through its actions or perhaps inactions the U.S., in a sense, created Osama bin Laden in the sense that the support of the Mujahadeen might have been transferred over and might have bolstered him in some way, and in a sense we, the U.S. created its own enemy?
TOMSEN: In a way, yes, because the CIA cooperated very closely with ISI. This is recorded in books by ISI generals. And 70 percent plus of the ordinance that we sent went to the people that the ISI favored, the Afghan fundamentalists, who were tied up with Osama bin Laden. And so was ISI. The Osama-Osama bin Laden extremist Afghans like Hechmachar Sayof (ph) and Rabani (ph), they created these terrorist camps in Afghanistan together, which have spewed out militant Muslim fighters all over the Muslim world, and, indeed, in the world.
So you're right, the monster was created in that manner in the first Afghan war. We didn't give enough attention to the political side. Now it's very important that we make sure that our military action serves the overall political strategic goals of achieving peace and security in Afghanistan this time and not stepping in such a way, not moving in such a way that a third round of conflict ensues.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Tomsen, we appreciate your insights.
Peter Tomsen is the last U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan. Thanks for being with us this morning.
TOMSEN: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
