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Sound Off: Syria's Admission to U.N. Security Council Sparks Debate

Aired October 09, 2001 - 08:21   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The ruling Bath Party in Damascus is calling Syria's election to a non-permanent U.N. Security Council seat a great diplomatic victory over Israel. Syria won it, despite vigorous opposition from Israel and from members of the U.S. Congress.

Syria is on the U.S. list of nations that sponsor terrorism, but an official Syrian spokesman says Damascus will -- quoting now, "cooperate for peace with member counties -- or member countries, that is, to the Security Council and other states."

But just moments ago, Senator John McCain said that Syria may be among the U.S. military's targets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Iraq is the first country, but there are others -- Syria, Iran, the Sudan -- who have continued to harbor terrorist organizations and actually assist them. I think that we have invoked the U.S. charter as far as every nation's right of self-defense if attacked, and I believe that this is the first step in preparing, if necessary -- and I emphasize if necessary -- attacks on other countries that may continue to feel that they can, with impunity, harbor terrorist organizations who continue to inflict acts of terror on Americans and our property.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Syndicated columnist Julianne Malveaux thinks it's all right for Syria to have a seat on the Security Council. Radio talk show host Laura Ingraham thinks it is not -- good to see the two of you.

JULIANNE MALVEAUX, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Hi, Paula.

ZAHN: All right, Julianne, if you would, lay out in 20 seconds why Syria should have a seat on the U.N. Security Council.

MALVEAUX: They were the unanimous choice of their region. It's a non-permanent seat. I think that in the spirit of the cooperation that the United States is asking from myriad Arab states, Syria belongs on the Security Council. It was a mistake for 38 members of Congress to oppose it. I think Jewish groups are playing hard line when they say they don't want them there. They are a part of the world, and we have gone to them and asked them to be a part of this coalition against terrorism. How can we then turn around and say they don't belong on the Security Council?

ZAHN: Well, Julianne, you may think they deserve a part of the Security Council, but you heard what Senator John McCain says. In a prolonged campaign against terrorism, Syria could very well wind up being targeted?

MALVEAUX: Paula, Syria is one of about 30 groups that 30 countries of the United States has listed as having harbored terrorists. I think that there is a question about the United States' definition of terrorism. The groups that Syria has harbored, the main one is called Hezbollah, I believe. It's a group that has dealt with territory in Israel, the occupation and invasion. And this is very different from the kind of terrorism that Mr. bin Laden has imposed on the world.

So I think that if the United States wants to talk about this new world cooperation, they had better look at the difference between hard-line terrorism and people who are simply defending their land.

ZAHN: What about that, Laura?

LAURA INGRAHAM, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I guess one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. We've heard that, and I've repeated it a few times in the past few weeks. Look, this has been a real diplomatic dropped ball on the part of the United States, Paula. It's an insult to the victims of September 11 that Syria, which as we know, makes it possible for groups like Hezbollah and Hamas and Islamic Jihad, along with its help from Iran to get these organizations and in staying in existence. It is an absolute outrage that this country is allowed to sit on the U.N. Security Council.

And the president was very clear. He said, we will go after terrorists wherever they exist -- wherever they exist. And you're either with us in this war against terrorism, or you're a hostile regime. We'll consider you a hostile regime. And now, we've left Israel basically to hang out -- hanging out to dry alone in its opposition to Syria on the Security Council. I think that is an outrage.

ZAHN: All right. But, Laura, the State Department told us yesterday, they're not going to tell us how the U.S. voted yesterday -- that the balloting is secret. Do you think the U.S. voted to put Syria on the U.N. Security Council?

INGRAHAM: Well, I'm not -- I don't think that's as important as the signal that this sends to the rest of the world.

ZAHN: But do you think they did? But ...

INGRAHAM: I don't -- I really ...

ZAHN: ... we don't really know, do we?

INGRAHAM: ... I don't know. The vote was 160 out of 177. So we probably did vote against it, but we're not saying anything about it. We have to make it very clear to the American people and the world that we do not distinguish acts of violence and brutality against innocent civilians carried out for whatever reason you are carrying them out. That is indefensible, and frankly, outrageous proposition.

MALVEAUX: Well, then how do we support Israel, Laura? There were three Palestinian women killed just a few days ago. They said they were very sorry. It was a mistake. They were innocent civilians as well. I mean, we cannot say that we don't like terrorism, but then we support Israel's terrorism against Palestinians. That is ...

INGRAHAM: Well, but Julianne is ...

MALVEAUX: ... [UNINTELLIGIBLE] and unacceptable.

INGRAHAM: ... Julianne is repeating what some of the most militant Islamic fundamentalists say -- basically ...

MALVEUAX: Oh, that's nonsense.

INGRAHAM: ... yesterday ...

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEUAX: And don't try to [UNINTELLIGIBLE] with a [UNINTELLIGIBLE] of Islamic fundamentalists.

INGRAHAM: Yesterday, the prime minister of ...

MALVEUAX: Right is right.

INGRAHAM: ... yesterday, the prime minister of Syria said that he believes that Israel should be added to the list of terrorist states. That Israel could have been responsible -- Radio Damascus reported -- Israel could have been responsible for the World Trade Center bombings. That was reported on September 21, Paula, and this is the ...

MALVEAUX: And that's a whole lot different than saying ...

INGRAHAM: ... this the kind of thing ... . MALVEAUX: ... that there has been terrorism in Israel.

(CROSSTALK)

INGRAHAM: ... this is a country that now we're supposed to

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: All right. Wait a minute. Hang on, Julianne.

(CROSSTALK)

INGRAHAM: I am about terrorism. I mean, being lectured by Syria about terrorism is like our trying to listen to Saddam Hussein about chemical weapons. I mean, it's a joke.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Wait, wait, wait, Julianne, Julianne, come back to the point Laura made. I mean, can you -- you're not going to sit here and defend Syria this morning ...

MALVEAUX: No, I'm not going to do that.

ZAHN: ... when we had a spokesperson saying Israel was responsible for the downing of the World Trade Center?

MALVEAUX: Obviously, Paula -- obviously, Paula, that's something that's indefensible, and I wouldn't defend it. At the same time, what I object to strongly here is Laura's attempt to say that you can't say anything critical about Israel without

(CROSSTALK)

INGRAHAM: The United States has said many critical things about Israel in recent days.

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: And that's just ridiculous. I mean, the fact is that there is a Middle Eastern problem that we keep tiptoeing around. And there is a difference between the terrorism that toppled the World Trade Center, which nobody in the world

(CROSSTALK)

INGRAHAM: That's a difference (ph).

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: ... defends ...

ZAHN: All right.

MALVEAUX: ... and what's been happening in the Middle East.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Well, let me raise this point. Laura, let me raise this point. I interviewed the king of Jordan several weeks ago, and I asked him: Had there been peace created at the camp -- through the Camp David accords, whether this would have happened in New York City? And he said, no.

INGRAHAM: I had Richard Perle, who is the chairman of the Defense Policy Board on my show last night. And he said, look, Laura, any people who try to connect the Middle East peace process and what Osama bin Laden is trying to do is just [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

Bin Laden is about power. He wants to take -- go back to Saudi Arabia, get control of those oil fields and have some real political power. He doesn't want to just launch strikes against the United States and hit us with thousands of casualties. He wants to assume a position of power in the world. It has nothing to do with Israel. It has nothing to do with the Middle East process. He's about power for himself, and he is the face of evil, and anyone -- anyone today who can stand up and say, we have to distinguish among good terrorists and bad terrorists, that is the kind of thinking that will get us into a lot of trouble down the road.

ZAHN: Well, Julianne

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: Well, how do you

ZAHN: Julianne, I want you to -- Julianne, hang on, hang on. You get to close off the segment today. But to close it off by weaving into this this morning the thought that John McCain planted in everyone's mind this morning. That Syria ultimately might be targeted (ph) for some type of military action as it sits on the U.N. Security Council.

MALVEAUX: Let's go back to President Bush's speech of September 20, in which he said countries who continue to harbor terrorists. I think that what he did there was ...

ZAHN: Well, no, no. Come back to my question, though. Reconcile those two things.

MALVEAUX: Well, the answer to your question, Paula, is I think that the president gave Syria and other countries -- those 30 countries on the list an opening to stop what they are doing. I think also Syria has got to come out with this seat on the U.N. Security Council. It will be voting. It's there for the whole world to see.

Yes, that possibility is there. I think the possibility that Senator McCain raised. Since there is a threat and a warning for Syria, and then they give them the opportunity to clean up their act. But they do belong in that seat.

ZAHN: OK. Laura, I know you can take a cue. Give me a 10- second closing thought.

INGRAHAM: Just don't hold your breath. I mean, Syria has harbored terrorists. They will continue to harbor terrorists, and once again, the credibility of the U.N. is eroded.

MALVEAUX: Not at all. Not at all.

ZAHN: Julianne Malveaux -- Laura Ingraham -- as always ...

INGRAHAM: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: ... good to have you here.

MALVEAUX: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: I think you probably woke up most of America this morning with that -- appreciate your time.

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