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CNN Live At Daybreak
America Strikes Back: Aid Workers Provide Independent Sources of Information from Afghan Cities
Aired October 19, 2001 - 08:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: For more perspective now on the latest strikes in Afghanistan and other developments, let's go to CNN's Christiane Amanpour, who joins us now from Islamabad in neighboring Pakistan.
Christiane, what's the latest from there now?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, perhaps the most important piece of information that I've been able to glean today has been from the only independent sources we've had so far in terms of trying to figure out the casualties on the ground.
We spoke to aid workers, local Afghans, who had just come out of the capital, Kabul, and they say -- and their job is to monitor very carefully what's going on, particularly when they get reports of civilian casualties. They say that in the two weeks of U.S. air bombing, they have counted a maximum of 10 civilian casualties. This is directly counter to what the Taliban claim, tens, they say, they say 70 or more.
But these aid workers are specifically listing for us 10 casualties, including four who were killed yesterday when a bomb, they say, exploded outside an apartment complex there.
On the other front, we are also hearing from the Taliban ambassador here to Pakistan. He has been in Kandahar for several days. We're not sure exactly what was being discussed. There were lots of rumors over the last week that, perhaps, there was some diplomatic initiative under way, perhaps there was some high-level Taliban official who may defect. But this ambassador laid that to rest, at least publicly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDUL SALAM ZAEEF, TALIBAN AMBASSADOR TO PAKISTAN: No, this was not true. This was completely a lie. And this is a part of propaganda against the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. No difference, not any problem between the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Now, there have been these conflicting reports as to how one of Osama bin Laden's alleged key aides was killed. First of all, a group saying that it had close links with al Qaeda, based in London, said that he had been killed in U.S. strikes. Then, they changed to say that he is, in fact, dead, but killed by a hand grenade that maybe he was handling.
In any event, the confirmation, apparently from several sources, that this particular person is now dead.
In terms of other information that we have had from our sources from Kabul, they are saying that a majority of Kabul residents welcomed the air campaign and the possibility of a change in government in Afghanistan. But, they say now, that they are concerned that there has been no public explanation of what kind of political solution is envisioned for the future of Afghanistan, and that is beginning to worry people in Kabul. They are worried about a vacuum -- Paula.
ZAHN: Christiane, a quick reaction to what appears to be a division between what Donald Rumsfeld told you yesterday of basically providing the Northern Alliance with the kind of support they need to be successful and potentially move south to Kabul. At the same time, the Secretary of State Powell told the Pakistanis he well understood their concerns about the Northern Alliance advancing.
Can you give us your insights into that? Is there a contradiction there?
AMANPOUR: Well, I think certainly from the Pakistani side, they are absolutely adamant that it not be the Northern Alliance, which is the victor in any kind of shift in the balance of power. And so, I think what the United States is telling the Pakistanis is that it won't just be the Northern Alliance. It will be a broad-based alliance, but obviously, as Donald Rumsfeld said yesterday, the U.S. is now prepared to arm and feed the Taliban's foes.
So I think that what's really concerning here is what appears to be a disconnect between the political initiative and the military initiative, and that is beginning to worry people, not only on the ground in Afghanistan, also in Pakistan, also amongst the aid community and others whose business it is to monitor what's going on.
ZAHN: I asked Dr. Rice about that earlier this morning, of course, the national security advisory to President Bush, and she denied that there was any disconnect.
AMANPOUR: Well, you know, I think what is absolutely obvious is that publicly, there has been no announcement or declaration of what the international community has achieved, has not achieved, envisions, wants, is working on in terms of a political solution for Afghanistan.
There has been no announcement that, for instance, Zahir Shah will form and lead an interim government. There has been no announcement that there has been such a thing convened.
And this is what is increasingly worrying people, who are concerned about this part of the world, and particularly the information we had today from eyewitnesses from Kabul was fascinating, showing how, you know, at first, people -- they called it the majority of Kabul residents -- welcomed the air campaign, because they believed that it would bring a shift in government.
Then, they got afraid when they heard interviews by the Northern Alliance, saying they were going to storm in. And they were afraid, because they didn't want to go back to sort of the looting and anarchy that previous war lords had done in Afghanistan. And now, they're saying, where is this new government? What is the announcement? We're hearing nothing about it.
So that seems to be the biggest concern right now is this military campaign appears to be proceeding pretty fast.
ZAHN: Christiane, thanks so much for that update. We're going to let you go, so you can head off to that Taliban news conference. And after you've attended that, we'll be checking in with you for the latest on that -- thanks so much.
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