Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live At Daybreak

Interview with David Kessler on Cipro

Aired October 25, 2001 - 07:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: So, why has everyone focused on Cipro as the antibiotic treatment for anthrax exposure? Well, there's some interesting history here and Dr. David Kessler, former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner from 1991 to 1997, has that inside story for us this morning.

Dr. Kessler, welcome. Good to see you.

DR. DAVID KESSLER, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: First of all, let's talk a little bit about the deal that Tommy Thompson, the head of Health and Human Services, cut yesterday with Bayer, the -- Bayer, as they call it in Germany -- the manufacturer of Cipro, to provide the drug at a much reduced cost. What is that all about?

KESSLER: Thompson negotiated a price of $0.95. A wholesale price of a single tablet to a community pharmacy is about $4.50. Bayer's price, discount price to the government, the price that it had wanted in the negotiations, was about $1.80. Behind closed doors, Tommy Thompson was very tough. He struck a very good deal.

ZAHN: OK, but let's talk about how that deal came down. There are people in the drug industry that are saying wait a minute, this guy threatened to get a waiver on a patent to get this deal. Is that justified?

KESSLER: No question that Secretary Thompson stood up. I think, in fact, that it was his finest hour. He played hard ball. I mean, Paula, in a time of public health crisis, in a time of war, I think everybody, including corporations, have to ask what they can do.

ZAHN: All right, so let me ask you this. If Bayer had not come through with this compromise, do you think it would have been justified for the government to break this patent?

KESSLER: I think in a public health crisis you have to do what you have to do. I don't think it was going to get to that. The people at Bayer, I mean their officials, their company officials were affected by this crisis. When a secretary of Health and Human Services goes and talks to the CEO and tells him that there really is no choice, when we're at war, I mean there really was no alternative. We weren't going to get to that. But Thomson did signal that he would break the patent. It's a very rare, very unusual step. You could only do it in very, very special circumstances and I think this was one of those instances.

ZAHN: So you don't see this, then, as a precedent being set where if the government's not happy with the prices various drug companies are charging for drugs that they've spent oftentimes, what is the average, a half a billion dollars to create, this you see is just one step because of a crisis?

KESSLER: I think on the contrary, Paula. I mean I think for the rest of the pharmaceutical industry, I would today hope they will, are going to line up at Secretary Thompson's door and ask what they can do with regard to this public health crisis. I think it sends a very strong signal to the pharmaceutical industry that in a time of crisis, in a time of war, that they have their part to do here.

ZAHN: Well, let's talk about why there is such intense focus on Cipro. After all, there are other antibiotics, are there not, that are equally effective in treating anthrax infection and exposure?

KESSLER: That's the good news. You're correct. Both penicillin and Doxycycline work for anthrax. In fact, Cipro was approved at the request of the FDA. The FDA went to Bayer and asked Bayer to put it on its label. And the reason FDA did that was it was concerned that if there would be a resistant strain of anthrax, a strain that we have not seen, that Cipro would then be a first line drug.

But there are other drugs, other antibiotics. This is not just about Cipro.

ZAHN: So then help the American public better understand why this deal needed to be cut with Bayer if these other antibiotics are equally effective? I mean Americans should have confidence in those drugs working as well.

KESSLER: There are...

ZAHN: And there are plenty of those to go around, right?

KESSLER: Yes. There are plenty of those drugs to go around and with this deal the American public can be rest assured that it will have ample therapy to treat as many cases as necessary. Let's hope, Paula, that we don't even get near that number.

ZAHN: I know you do lots of cutting edge research at Yale. What is the level of concern there, that we're not focusing in on other germs, that we don't have antibiotics in our arsenal to treat?

KESSLER: I think that we do have a lot of weapons in the arsenal to treat a whole range of anti -- a whole range of different microbiological threats. But there's a lot of uncertainty right here and I think that uncertainty is the hardest thing to deal with.

ZAHN: And how do you think the health care system is responding right now? You hear these nightmare stories of a postal worker being sent home from the hospital and then some 24 hours ends up dead because no one recognized the overt symptoms of anthrax inhalation.

KESSLER: Paula, this is as hard as it gets. I mean this is as big a public health challenge as I've ever seen. Has the administration made mistakes? They've said they've made mistakes. The fact is that every day, every hour we learn more from this experience.

The good news right now is there will be ample drug to treat anthrax. Secretary Thompson did a good job yesterday.

ZAHN: All right, well, we appreciate your insights as well this morning. Thank you very much for getting up so early for us.

KESSLER: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: Appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com