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CNN Live At Daybreak

Possible Iraqi Link to Anthrax Terrorism

Aired October 26, 2001 - 07:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Some experts suspect Iraq may be linked to the anthrax contamination but there are other countries with the technology.

CNN's David Ensor explains how tests being conducted on the letter sent to Senator Tom Daschle could lead investigators closer to the source of the anthrax.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Richard Spertzel helped make anthrax as a weapon for the U.S. more than 30 years ago. In the 1990s, he helped the U.N. destroy the biological weapons found in Iraq.

Ever since anthrax in the letter to Senator Daschle reached the noses of at least 28 people, he's been predicting chemicals or other alterations designed to make the anthrax particles float in the air would be found.

RICHARD SPERTZEL, BIOWEAPONS EXPERT: To do that you have to have particles that are not going to be, tend to adhere to each other, tend to have electrostatic property that will make them cling to surfaces, and they also have to be water repellent.

ENSOR: Now that there's apparently evidence the anthrax has been altered to float better, Spertzel says that means it was either produced in a nation's laboratory or by someone trained in one.

SPERTZEL: My number-one choice would be that there's some kind of active cooperation going on between Iraq and Osama bin Laden.

ENSOR: Spertzel says you can rule out anthrax from the U.S., whose weaponized stockpile was destroyed years ago, but you can't rule out anthrax from the former Soviet Union, stolen and sold to terrorists.

There are also, he says, long-term biological weapons programs capable of this sophistication in Iran, Syria, Libya, China, and North Korea. The additional tests under way could prove crucial.

SPERTZEL: Without saying specifically what it is, if that foreign material turned out to be one of about three different substances then I would be inclined to say look very, very closely at Iraq.

ENSOR (on camera): Spertzel hopes he is wrong about Iraq. And he warns that there will likely be no smoking gun evidence in the laboratory analysis of the chemicals in the anthrax, though he says the field of suspects could be narrowed.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And former United Nations Chief Weapons Inspector Richard Butler has raised the possibility of a Baghdad connection from the start, and he joins us this morning -- welcome back.

RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER UNITED NATIONS CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good to see you, Paula.

ZAHN: Thank you.

It would seem that you've sort of been going down the same track that Senator Bob Graham has...

BUTLER: Right.

ZAHN: ... who chairs the Senate Intelligence Committee.

BUTLER: Right.

ZAHN: I wanted to read something briefly what he had to say yesterday. Quote -- "As of this point, there has not been a clear identification of an Iraqi role either in the September 11 attacks or in the anthrax issue." But he goes on to say, "but like so many other questions in this very traumatic chapter in American history, there are more questions than there are answers at this stage to Iraqi involvement." You agree?

BUTLER: I do agree with that. I think, too, what we just heard from Dick Spertzel, who was the head of biology in UNSCOM when I was in charge of UNSCOM, a man for whom I have great respect, a fine scientist, deeply experienced in biological weapons, listen to what Dick said, same kind of general conclusion, we do not know if Iraq was involved. But, Paula, this is a track that we must investigate. As every piece of scientific evidence comes forward, it seems to me that it's pointing in the direction, as Spertzel said, of a foreign laboratory and the key suspect there I think would be Iraq.

ZAHN: Does what Tom Ridge said yesterday reinforce that point where he repeated something that we had heard weeks ago that this particular variety that was found in the Daschle letter was very pure,...

BUTLER: Yes, it does.

ZAHN: ... very sophisticated?

BUTLER: Yes, it does. ZAHN: And why did we need to hear that again, because it seemed to me that the government sort of backed off of that analysis for a while and we had this argument about whether it was weapon's grade or wasn't weapon's grade?

BUTLER: Yes, I'm not sure why we had to hear that again. I think what we've seen in the last 48 hours is a recognition by the administration that their handling of these issues was fractured. There were various agencies doing various bits and pieces of it and Ridge has now brought it together. I gather there was a very important meeting to bring that about, and now I think we're starting to hear the definitive statement, in particular, about the potency of the anthrax, especially the substance that was sent to Senator Daschle's office, that was -- that was serious.

ZAHN: But yesterday everybody was sort of playing up the angle of the potential of this being a domestic plot. Is it impossible that someone could have bought this stuff, if in fact this ends up being true, from Iraq?

BUTLER: Yes, it is.

ZAHN: And describe to us when you oversaw the weapons program how a transaction like that could have taken place, if it did?

BUTLER: Well in a variety of ways. But you know what we do know is that there have been contacts between Iraqi intelligence officers and Al Qaeda, the terrorist group. One of those contacts it's been suggested from another source -- from a trial of a person who's charged with crimes in Egypt. You know this is -- this is a complex picture.

ZAHN: Sure.

BUTLER: But what emerges is it's possible that in one of those meetings between one of the September 11 terrorists and an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague in the Czech Republic that it's possible that anthrax was handed over there. I don't know that to be the case, but again, the evidence that is emerging suggests that that should be looked into quite carefully.

But simply, Paula, how would it happen, really terribly, terribly simply. This substance involved is quite -- is physically quite small. It could be handed over in a plastic jar or the kind that we all get when we go to the pharmacy and get some antibiotics. It's a plastic -- little plastic bottle.

ZAHN: Quickly want to move you on to the whole subject of Israel. We're just beginning to learn more about what President Bush communicated to Shimon Peres...

BUTLER: Right.

ZAHN: ... when he was in town, put an enormous pressure on him for the Israelis to withdrawal their troops. Your understanding of any of the linkages that are being drawn here and how that might affect the coalition?

BUTLER: I think it's terribly important. The coalition is edgy. And one of the gut concerns of Arab supporters of what we're doing against terrorism is, of course, a solution to the Israel- Palestinian problem. So, yes, I agree Israel has to think very hard about what it's doing. Also, I think that the Palestinian side, too, their leadership, you know without being directly critical of Mr. Arafat, their leadership has got to do better than it's done in the past in controlling its own extremist elements. If that one were to spin out of control, if the Israel-Palestinian situation were to go the wrong way, I'm not sure where that would place us in coalition terms, Paula. I think it could be, you know, a disaster, frankly.

ZAHN: What a challenge, though, because we know neither side trusts each other at all.

BUTLER: Well, they've got to find a way and quickly.

ZAHN: Ambassador Butler,...

BUTLER: OK.

ZAHN: ... good of you to join us.

BUTLER: Thank you.

ZAHN: Thanks so much.

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