Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live At Daybreak
Interview with Julianne Malveaux and Armstong Williams
Aired October 30, 2001 - 08:39 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back. As you know the government is getting criticized for its handling of the anthrax mailing. Postal employees complain they were not tested as quickly as the staffers on Capitol Hill, and their facilities were not shut down when the anthrax threat was known even though that's exactly what happened on the Hill. Some are calling it racism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Is there a double standard here?
WILLIAM SMITH, PRESIDENT, NEW YORK METRO POSTAL UNION: Yes, there most certainly is a double standard. The "New York Times" say might be some racism in it. If you read the "New York Times" yesterday's paper, it said that the facility in Washington, D.C. is a majority minority and we know in this facility it's 82 percent minorities work in this facility. The "New York Times" said it might be some racism in here.
So I want them all to understand and I want America to understand that the world is looking at this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Is it racism or not? Well, syndicated columnist Julianne Malveaux believes race was a factor the way Washington postal workers were treated. Syndicated columnist Armstrong Williams disagrees. Good morning to you both. Welcome.
JULIANNE MALVEAUX, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Good morning, Paula. Good morning, Armstrong.
ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Good morning, Julianne.
ZAHN: Oh, they're making nice to each other before we get going here. Very, very bad sign. All right, Julianne, explain to us, why you believe racism is involved here?
MALVEAUX: 5.2 percent of the people who work on Capitol Hill are African-American. 28 percent nationally, and as the man has just said, in D.C. majority minority, and New York, 82 percent, there was a different value placed on people's lives. When the letter got to Capitol Hill you suddenly wanted to test, well the letter came from somewhere. It didn't drop out of sky. People handled the letter in order for it to get to Capitol Hill. Duh! Why did --
ZAHN: All right, wait -- wait -- wait -- Julianne -- Julianne, let's talk a little bit about what the government officials have told us. They said they had to work that letter backwards through the system, and they said they were not aware of the fact that you could get some sort of anthrax poisoning simply through a sealed envelope. They have thought the envelope had to be opened.
MALVEAUX: Paula --
ZAHN: You discount that completely? You're saying that is not the case?
MALVEAUX: -- why does question not get raised? I mean I just feel that we heard about Tom Brokaw, the letter that went to Brokaw, we heard about the postal facility in New Jersey. It seems to me the complexion and the class of these people allowed the CDC and others to treat them with absolutely reckless disregard. Maybe they weren't thinking. I call it racism.
ZAHN: Armstrong Williams, do you think race had anything do with this?
WILLIAMS: No. It is so unfortunate, my heart really goes out to gentleman who was just on camera. Obviously these people frightened obviously, they are frightened for lives, a lot has transpired since September 11, many accusations are being made. Some that's worthy of merit, some that are not. It is unfortunate that in a situation like this, when people cannot find simple answers as to why the government or some other agency did not react as quickly as they should have, we stretch, looking for solutions, and it's easy to say racism because by using racism, we simply say that resolves and answers all the things that we are trying to address at the time. The fact as far as I'm concerned is that the government has gone out of its way to try to bring the situation under control. This something new for government. If you listen to our governmental officials in the past several weeks, they have been having different conversation what anthrax is about, whether anthrax has been weaponized. I am convinced that this government is committed to treating all Americans the same. Like you said, the top health officials and medical doctors have said they did not know someone could contract anthrax by just handling the mail. So this is something new. It's unfortunate, many lives have been affected by this. I think it's sad that someone with Julianne's level of intelligence and respect that she has that she would even just take this conversation as far as I'm concerned into the sewage to try to say that racism --
MALVEAUX: The sewage, Armstrong, is that two populations were treated differently. The sewage is that is two populations were treated differently. When you looked at those young people on the Hill, and I want everybody who feels they need to be tested to be tested. I'm simply saying those postal workers also. The week's delay cost two people lives, Armstrong, that's the sewage here. It could have been prevented. Just by looking ahead. I'm not saying is that anyone deliberately wanted these people to die, but I think you have to look at two different population, two different racial compositions, and two different kinds of treatment.
WILLIAMS: Julianne, I was on a show with you not long ago and you implied that the reason why the terrorists attacked us on September 11 in the first place was because we pulled out of the race conference in South Africa. I just wish that you would try to think that racism --
(LAUGHTER)
MALVEAUX: You can't stick to subject, can you, Armstrong? The subject is these postal workers. So you can't --
WILLIAMS: I -- I think if you can make an issue out of racism and terrorism, it only goes back to your thinking what you are trying imply now and I think it's so unfortunate. I think do you country and yourself a disservice when you try to distract people away from the real issue.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Armstong, let me ask you a question. Hang on, hang on, Julianne. Let me ask Armstrong a question. Why do you think the senators got the treatment they did and the representatives, and postal workers did not? There clearly was a week delay, and Julianne made the point that that week delay probably cost two people their lives.
WILLIAMS: Because, Paula, as you stated early on, I mean, obviously they have been exposed to this anthrax, they are United States senators, they are in the Congress, obviously they reacted to them because they were afraid, they did not realize as they were trying to trace this that postal workers had been exposed. I -- I --
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: So wait, wait, wait. You're saying that they don't have a higher value? That -- that the higher value in their lives was placed --
WILLIAMS: No, no, I'm not saying -- it's just -- it's a time issue. No, it has nothing to do with whether they have a higher value, of course they have just as much value as anyone else. And as soon as government realized that those postal workers were exposed, they immediately said that they should be given the Cipro. I mean, I think we are just -- we are just going through -- I mean.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: All right, Julianne, Julianne, Julianne -- You need to answer this question, though, because Armstrong made this point several times in the last minute or two. Are you simply not willing to grant the government a learning curve?
MALVEAUX: I'm willing to grant them a learning curve, but I also want to grant people human consideration, Paula. When -- when Tom Daschle's office got the letter, there were offices that were not adjacent to his -- the Hart building was not the same place. I mean they closed down Congress, not the Senate. So it seemed to me that this little -- this hysteria which may well have been founded, allowed some closings, allowed some very rapid testing. It just seems to me -- I'm not -- I am giving the government perhaps more credit than they deserve in saying these are intelligent people, the letter didn't drop from sky it wasn't like manna from heaven. It came from people who put their hands on it. So it just seems to me that the same logic that would allow you to close Congress, would say, "gee, where did letter come from? Brentwood. Let's test people at Brentwood. Let's just take a look over there." Instead these people were simply left in abeyance, and even now everyone has not had opportunity to be tested or to have Cipro. I have talked to several postal workers in Washington, D.C., who were very, very worried, they haven't got any --
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Armstrong -- Armstrong, I need a really quick reaction to this because I need 20 seconds a piece for a final thought. Armstrong, quick reaction to what Julianne said and I want to move to you another subject.
WILLIAMS: We don't need to divide this country any further. We're attacked as Americans, not as blacks, not as white, not as latino. And this is time for us to be together and support our government as they try bring this evil doing to a close. We don't need to divide any further, Julianne, we need to be together.
MALVEAUX: Well --
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: All right, I need to throw a question out to both of you. Julianne, let's move on for a final topic here. And that is, do you think the government handed the terrorists a victory by making a second warning last night, that there is intelligence to suggest there could be another terrorist attack against American interests abroad or here at home?
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, the government is in a very tough situation, Paula, and Julianne. I think that what the government is trying to do is protect itself because of what happened on September the 11th. And they want to go on the side of caution as best, if you --
ZAHN: So you think the announcement is an okay thing.
WILLIAMS: No. I'm just saying if someone is saying to you that there is a possibility of -- probability of more terrorist attacks, you don't ever want to Americans to become too comfortable to think that it is not going to happen again. So it is best for them to prepare themselves to watch, as well as pray, for whatever may come. I think the government is doing what it has to do. And I trust the government.
ZAHN: Okay, Julianne, 10 seconds. Final thought from you. WILLIAMS: It was ambiguous announcement that I think will make people very paranoid. I agree with Armstrong that they do need to make an announcement. However, you're on alert, go back to normal. It's ambiguous. People don't know what to look for. People are saying I'm afraid go to the mall, I'm afraid to go here. We need to reduce the fear or terrorists have indeed won.
ZAHN: All right, Julianne. Armstrong, good to have you both of you with us.
WILLIAMS: Good seeing you, Paula.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
