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CNN Live At Daybreak

Interview With Richard Butler

Aired October 31, 2001 - 07:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: In Afghanistan, more explosions rocked the Taliban stronghold of Kandahar overnight and we learned the U.S. has troops on the ground. But here at home, we are seeing some survey results that show some weakening of support for the war.

For a view on that and the threat of new attacks, we turn once again to Ambassador Richard Butler. He is the former chief U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq. Welcome back.

RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: Good morning.

So, very quickly, bring people up to date on the fierce debate going on in Washington about how much information the administration should share with the public about this potential attack. Are we better off being informed and being nervous or being left in the dark?

BUTLER: Well, as we were saying yesterday, Paula, it depends on who the administration is addressing. Now, the debate is saying hey, you were addressing us, the ordinary people. You told us that we're going to be under threat, but you didn't tell us any detail and you didn't tell us what to do about it. And of course that's a serious problem.

On the other hand, the point I made to you yesterday was the administration was also obviously addressing the terrorists, was saying we know what you plan and don't do it. In other words, giving a kind of deterrent signal. And we've learned overnight that that speculation was right because we've learned that what caused the administration to issue that general warning was that in Canada some listening services, shall I call them that, had heard messages from al Qaeda supporters there to their people in Afghanistan talking about going to do something soon down south, in other words, in the USA.

So the administration has got a problem. Sending that deterrent message is obviously a good thing.

ZAHN: Sure.

BUTLER: On the other hand, other people have got a point, hey, you tell us to be, you know, careful, but not where, how or careful against what? The admin... ZAHN: But the officials have made it clear if they knew more, if they knew there was a specific city targeted, they would, of course, tell those city officials and some sort of plan would be drawn up for people in that community.

BUTLER: That's the third layer. That's the third layer, the law enforcement and security agencies. Of course, they would tell them. But there's the people, there's the agencies and there's the deterrent message to the terrorists. The people is the difficult one. Ask yourself, where would we be if the administration had said everyone in Chicago should be careful? What would that cause to happen in Chicago?

ZAHN: Total panic.

BUTLER: Yes. So, they've got a problem. They've got to think this through. I'm sure they will. They've got to think this through more clearly and try and meet those three elements of this situation.

ZAHN: And against this backdrop...

BUTLER: Right.

ZAHN: ... you see the softening poll numbers for support for this war.

BUTLER: Interesting.

ZAHN: That obviously has to be of some concern to the administration.

BUTLER: Yes, sure. Indeed. I read that with fascination. This attack against Afghanistan or al Qaeda has been taking place now for just three weeks. It started off with enormous public support for the obvious reasons and we're starting to see that go down. Now, I think that is of concern because there's still more to be done. We've learned overnight from Donald Rumsfeld that, indeed, there are American troops on the ground in increasing numbers.

So this is not the time for public support to dwindle. But on the other hand, the public, as we have already discussed, obviously feels there needs to be a bit of an outcome. I hope that comes soon. By the way, if the terrorists are smart, reading those poll numbers they might think they don't have to do anything more.

ZAHN: Yes, that they've got America frightened already.

BUTLER: That's right. And that's why I regret those numbers going down. We've got a job to do out there and I hope public support continues to support it.

ZAHN: A final thought this morning on the continuing debate over the strength of the anthrax found in the Tom Daschle letter.

BUTLER: Right. Right. ZAHN: You've got the "Wall Street Journal" and ABC News this morning saying there was a particular chemical found in the anthrax makeup that would suggest Iraqi fingerprints.

BUTLER: Betonite, yes.

ZAHN: Right. Which is what the administration is denying, or at least Ari Fleischer, the president's spokesperson, denied yesterday. What's up?

BUTLER: I'll tell you what's up, Paula. There isn't scientific clarity and we need more of that. But there's another thing taking place. There's a vigorous debate going on inside the administration at a political level about whether or not to make a move on Iraq. Now, you think if evidence were to leak forward saying indelibly the fingerprints of Iraq are on this anthrax, that might settle that debate in a particular direction and I think a key principle is at stake here.

If the administration decides to make a move on Iraq, it wants to do it at a time of its choosing, not because, you know, some piece of evidence has come forward and would propel it prematurely to do so.

ZAHN: What are the odds of attack...

BUTLER: So there's the political aspect.

ZAHN: Yes, well, what are the odds of an attack on Iraq, ultimately?

BUTLER: Ultimately I think the odds are fairly good, fairly high. Good is perhaps the wrong word. I think ultimately fairly high. But what we must first do is get those weapons inspectors back in there. And if Iraq refuses to do that, there's another reason for saying we're going to take some action on Iraq.

ZAHN: As always, good to have your insights, Ambassador.

BUTLER: OK. Good to see you.

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