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CNN Live At Daybreak

House and Senate Pass Different Bills; Interview With Rep. Peter Defazio (D) of Oregon

Aired November 02, 2001 - 07:11   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now on to airport security. In the days following the terrorist attacks, members of Congress stood shoulder-to-shoulder in solidarity. Now they are going toe-to-toe over baggage screening at the nation's airports.

Congressional Correspondent Jonathan Karl tells us now about the tale of two bills on Capitol Hill. You predicted some fireworks and I guess that's exactly what you got yesterday. Good morning.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.

And the story here is exactly that, the story is of a Republican president, George W. Bush, for the first time since September 11, standing toe-to-toe against Congressional Democrats. And in this case, the president, with some critical help in the last day from New York Mayor Giuliani, won a victory here, defeating the Democratic approach to aviation security by a narrow vote of 218-214.

Remember, the Democrats wanted to make all those baggage screeners at the major airports across the country, federal employees. That was defeated. After it was defeated, the Republican approach overwhelmingly passed.

Now, after the vote, the number two Democrat in the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, came out and accused the Republicans of actually jeopardizing air safety.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY WHIP-ELECT: Tonight, the House of Representatives missed an opportunity to make the skies safe for Thanksgiving and for our families. This is really a tragedy. Instead of rejecting the status quo, which created a situation where seven weeks ago our own jetliners were used as weapons against the American people, instead of rejecting that, this Congress gave an endorsement to the security system that allowed that to happen.

REP. JOHN MICA (R), TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE: I'm sad to hear the whip on the Democrat side say that the public isn't going to be safe. Nothing can be further from the truth. The president has put into step some intermediate measures. Cockpit doors will be secured within a week. Air marshals are on planes and the president has taken steps in the interim. He said today to me that he wants this done right and safety and security for the American people and that's what we intend to do, and I'll work with the Democrats on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: And this Republican bill includes stronger cockpit doors, more federal air marshals on planes. It provides for the screening of checked baggage. It also provides for background checks for those who engage in flight training and also allows under certain circumstances pilots to carry firearms.

Now, with this bill passed, we have got the stage set here, Paula, for another slowdown, this time a slowdown between the Senate and the House because the Senate, if you remember, has already passed an aviation security bill that did what the Democrats wanted, making those screeners at those airports, the biggest airports across the country, federal employees -- Paula.

ZAHN: So any prediction this morning from the smart folks you talk to every day about what a final version of this bill might look like before it reaches the president's desk?

KARL: Well, it's really hard to see from here. The prediction is that this will be a tough battle. It'll probably start next week, what we call a conference committee, where they try to reconcile these two different approaches. But remember, that Senate bill passed 100- 0. So, and that Senate bill provided for the full federalization of those employees.

Now, that said, it did pass 100-0 but many of those Republicans who voted for that approach did so even though they were opposed to that one provision, making those screeners federal employees. So I really don't have a prediction for you here, Paula, but it's going to be a tough battle next week.

ZAHN: All right, we'll be following it closely right alongside you.

Jonathan Karl, thanks so much.

President Bush is calling on the House and Senate to take fast action on a final version of that aviation security bill. In a statement the president said, "I commend the House for passing legislation that will help ensure the safety of the traveling public by strengthening security at America's airports. I am pleased the bill includes many of the safety measures proposed by my administration, including strong federal oversight of airline security, an expanded federal air marshals program and important aircraft security enhancements. The American people deserve tough security standards and the House plan delivers. I urge the House and Senate to quickly work together to send a strong and effective bill to my desk."

Now, from the opposing side this morning, we join Congressman Peter DeFazio of Oregon. Thank you very much for being with us, sir. REP. PETER DEFAZIO (D), OREGON: Thanks, Paula. Good morning.

ZAHN: Good morning.

So in the end, why did the Republican version of the bill fly yesterday? Because of all that presidential arm twisting?

DEFAZIO: Presidential arm twisting and the so-called hammer, Tom DeLay. He said two weeks ago he wasn't going to allow the bill to come up because he would not yet get the right result. The right result was what happened last night. It took him a couple of weeks. I think that's, you know, a credible effort on their part, but it isn't good policy.

ZAHN: So what happens next? What kind of a bill do you think will ultimately arrive at the president's desk?

DEFAZIO: Well, we've got --

ZAHN: And how long will it take to get it there?

DEFAZIO: Well, we've got to junk these private security firms. I mean, come on, what, they're talking about federal scrutiny, federal supervision. What is stronger federal supervision than probation? The largest company in the United States, Argenbright, has been on probation for felony convictions and has now been indicted for more felony offenses, the same company. They're having problems in Europe.

I don't believe that these companies are going to get the job done right. They should be federal law enforcement officers, just like Customs, INS, Agriculture and the people who guard the United States Capitol.

ZAHN: Well, clearly, that's going to be a major sticking point as you try to reconcile these two versions of the bill.

DEFAZIO: Sure.

ZAHN: I mean someone's got to give up something here. What's going to give?

DEFAZIO: I'm not sure. You know, John McCain is very adamant on this issue, as is Fritz Hollings. So to say well, the Republicans in the Senate really didn't mean it, John McCain meant it and he's going to be on the conference committee.

So I'm not sure. I believe we've got to move much further toward federalization. Continuing the status quo, continuing to keep these same companies in place -- I mean there was a failure last night at LaGuardia Airport as we were voting, a company just waving people through security. This is not a way to make the traveling public safe.

ZAHN: But help us understand now the politics of the next couple of weeks. Will you be able to polish off a bill before the Thanksgiving holiday or... DEFAZIO: I think --

ZAHN: ... will there be foot dragging on both sides here?

DEFAZIO: There shouldn't be. In fact, I believe and we asked for the Republicans to appoint conferees last night so we could begin meeting this weekend and get a bill done. Obviously, the easiest way to get a bill done would have been to adopt the Senate bill which passed 100-0. It would have gone directly to the president's desk last night.

Absent that, we've got to get a conference going. So people have got to turn their pressure on the Republican leadership. We shouldn't be going home this weekend. We should be staying here and working on the conference. But they just said we're out of here.

ZAHN: So what I'm not clear on, then, is how you move ahead and, once again, who's going to compromise? It sounds like your position is fairly well entrenched and we know what some of the Republicans on the House side feel about that position.

DEFAZIO: Well, you know, I'm not going to negotiate on TV, but there may be ways to -- ZAHN: Oh, come on. We need you to negotiate this morning.

DEFAZIO: There may be ways to get there. I mean, for instance, I said to the Republicans yesterday, I said, you know, you don't even disbar companies that have been convicted of felonies. You say individuals who have had felonies, individuals that don't have any qualifications can't screen. But a company that has committed repeat felonies can continue to sell services to the government and to the traveling public.

I mean maybe there's some seeds of some compromise here by narrowing the scope of people that can provide these services and getting more federal people out there. But, you know, I really believe in my heart that the best way to do this is with federal professional law enforcement officers. I really do. So it's going to be hard to sort of move away from something I believe so much in my heart, and others do, to what's called, you know, a pragmatic split in, you know, the baby around here.

ZAHN: All right, I'd like to move you quickly along to the issue of the impact of what Governor Gray Davis had to say, warning Californians that suspension bridges in that state may fall prey to attack. As I understand it, your state was one of seven western states as well to get this warning from the FBI. The Justice Department has since sort of diluted the warning and sort of the indication is that maybe Gray Davis over reacted. What do you think? You heard the same warning he got. You didn't tell -- did you go public with anybody in your state, telling them to stay off bridges during rush hours between now and a certain day?

DEFAZIO: No, and as far as I know, my governor didn't either. I'm getting a little impatient with these non-specific threats. I mean I guess they're saying well, you should continue with business as usual, but you should all go to your bunkers. I mean to have a threat that is somewhere in the world in the next week something is going to happen to somebody, that's not very helpful. It's sort of a CYA thing but it doesn't help the American public and I think Gray Davis did get out there on this and, you know, putting the National Guard, higher security, all those sorts of measures, that's prudent. That's a good reaction.

But to put out this non-specific threat -- I can't imagine what rush hour is going to look like in the Bay Area tonight.

ZAHN: Well, yes, I'm sure it's going to be the nightmare. So in closing, you supported what Gray Davis did. And can you explain to us today why he's taken so much heat from the feds?

DEFAZIO: No. I don't, I really don't support what he did. I mean I think a non, you know, just putting out a non-specific threat which the feds give to you in that kind of way, I don't think that was a good move. I think he should have put security there. I don't think he necessarily needed to toss this thing out to the public.

We may lose more lives because of traffic wrecks because of what's going to happen at rush hour, you know, at this point because this may not be a credible threat.

ZAHN: OK, thanks for clarifying that.

DEFAZIO: Sure.

ZAHN: I meant it to mean the exact opposite of that, Representative DeFazio.

DEFAZIO: It's early. It's early.

ZAHN: It's very early and it's been a long week and everybody's very excited about how the Yankees did last night. So, Representative DeFazio, thank you again for your time this morning. We'll be watching that debate very carefully next week. Appreciate your time.

DEFAZIO: Thanks, Paula.

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