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CNN Live At Daybreak

Understanding Completely Different Culture in Pakistan and Afghanistan

Aired November 07, 2001 - 05:23   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Part of Americans' challenge in America's new war is understanding a completely different culture and how it works in Pakistan, in Afghanistan, run by tribal councils.

Our Carol Lin right now is in a remote mountainous area in Pakistan and she has an opportunity to show us one of these tribal councils and explain to us how they work. The lesson begins now -- Carol, hello. Good to see you.

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you, too, Daryn.

Remote, indeed. It's a remote part of Pakistan and a forbidden part of Pakistan. You cannot get government permission to travel into the countryside as we have. The only way we were able to get to this remote village called Dera Bughti was to be smuggled in by tribesmen armed with automatic rifles. We were picked up and surrounded by a truck convoy of three trucks filled with tribesmen armed with Kalashnikov rifles who got us past a series of army checkpoints in order to get to their village, which is where I stand right now.

What's interesting about this place is that what you see are tribal laws that go back hundreds of years. The Pakistan government, the Pakistan police in particular, do not have authority in these tribal areas.

Behind me what you see is the security force here to guard the chief of the tribe and behind them is the structure where every day, seven days a week, the tribal council is held. And at this tribal council is where matters involving family, social life, the law are settled.

For example, just this morning alone -- the tribal council just broke up about 45 minutes ago, but today they held a series of hearings about a local kidnapping where the victim came to testify. He escaped with the help of some Bughti. They are now hunting for the suspects. They discussed the matter of a stolen car.

Other issues that might come before the tribal council would be, say, matters of adultery. If a woman is found guilty of cheating on her husband, the penalty is death. By tribal law she is obligated to hang herself or her own family is required to kill her.

Compensation for murder, however, is a little less so because there are -- or a little less severe, rather, the penalty, because in this tribal culture to kill someone can be found to be acceptable if that cause is justified, if a man's honor is at stake.

They are led, this tribe, the Bughti tribe, they are led by a charismatic leader. His name is Nawab Akber Khan Bughti. He is the tribal chief. He is the father, the protector, the judge, the jury, the man that the tribal council turns to for all matters in final ruling.

And Daryn, it is the law. This is a man who basically rules in life or death. He is also a threat to the Pakistan government, not a man that the Pakistan government right now wants a Western journalist to be speaking to.

He once headed the guerrilla movement that fought against the Pakistan army. He is the founder of a political party that is moving for independence for Baluchistan, which is the province where we're at. It borders Afghanistan. And he also controls the actions, the lives, the influences, the opinions of some 182,000 tribes people.

You're seeing pictures of him right now as he conducts this tribal council meeting.

What's interesting about these tribesmen is that they are armed to the teeth, violating openly Pakistan's law that prohibits automatic weapons. This is a tribe, a very large tribe of people who not only have access to automatic weapons, but rocket launchers and the like.

And now Bughti, who is very opinionated, very much vocal against the Pakistani government, has also been critical of the American government, saying that Baluchistan, this province, is being used by American forces which are basing to the south with the permission of the Pakistani government and that his people are watching very closely as to how this war develops in Afghanistan and whether the heat gets even hotter in this war against terrorism.

They say they don't support terrorism, but they feel that the United States has been a bully in the region and that what they are looking for is for the United States to make some sort of peaceful concession in this matter. They are Sunni Muslims here and they are sympathetic to Muslims around the world -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Fascinating social science lesson you're getting there, Carol. It's bringing up a number of questions. First of all, perhaps I'm stating the obvious here when I look, it appears it's all men in the tribal council. Is that right?

LIN: Yes, it is. I as a Western woman, it's very unusual to even be standing in this courtyard right now. We are in what is considered to be city hall, essentially, and all formal business is conducted by men. Daryn, I haven't seen a woman in the last 30 hours since we first arrived here. The woman's role is behind closed doors in the home. They are, as the men here like to politely say, the protector of the heart and the protector of the hearth, keeping the home fires burning. It's very unusual for a woman to attend a tribal council meeting. I attended this morning as a guest of Nawab Bughti. You can imagine the stares that I got as I sat next to their tribal chief. But he is somewhat Westernized. This is a man who used to live for a time in London. He's received medical care in the United States. His favorite city in the United States is the City of San Francisco. Before his travel was restricted by the Pakistani government, he was known for his tailor cut Seville Row suits that were hand tailored in London. And this is a man who clearly understands the West, but is also clearly perplexed by this war against terrorism.

KAGAN: I also wonder, Carol, as you point out, how they're armed to the teeth, as you say, where those arms are coming from, especially, as you pointed out, this is not a situation that the Pakistani government is pleased with or supports.

LIN: That's right. The Pakistani government is very proud to say that they confiscated some 90,000 weapons in a mass drive to get weapons out of the hands of terrorists as well as ordinary citizens. But there are an estimated five to six million weapons still out on the street.

Here in these tribal lands, as I mentioned, the Pakistani police, the Pakistani government do not have legal authority and the fact that there are guns in Central Asia should be no surprise to anyone. Many of these weapons were left over from the Soviet war in Afghanistan. There is a huge amount of gun trafficking between Afghanistan and Pakistan and Pakistan also has its own weapons manufacturing up to the north in Peshawar, where Rebecca MacKinnon has been reporting from.

So the fact that they are armed to the teeth violating what is supposed to be Pakistani law, frankly comes as no surprise to the people out here who live in the countryside. It's a matter of their traditions and their, and, frankly, their lifestyle.

KAGAN: Carol Lin.

Carol, we just lost your picture, but we were able to hear your entire report loud and clear, an excellent report. Thank you very much for that unique look.

Our Carol Lin reporting from Dera Bughti, Pakistan. Carol, thank you.

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