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CNN Live At Daybreak

Three Reporters Killed in Apparent Ambush by Taliban Forces

Aired November 12, 2001 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Osama bin Laden says he has nuclear weapons. The U.S. says they're not sure whether that's true. In the war zone, all roads lead to Kabul. Taliban opposition forces move toward the Afghan capital. And the results are in from Florida again. A comprehensive study says George Bush won the election fair and square.

And good morning. Thanks so much for being with us this morning. Hope you all had a good weekend. It is Monday, October 12. From New York, I'm Paula Zahn.

Coming up in this hour, we're going to try to answer some of today's big questions -- does Osama bin Laden have nuclear weapons as he claims and if so, why hasn't he used them? We're going to talk with bin Laden's official biographer about his recent interview with the suspected terrorist. We will also talk with former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger about al Qaeda and its nuclear capabilities and what the U.S. can do about that.

And a little bit later on, revisiting the Florida election only to confirm what we knew all along. So was the recount a waste of our time and money? Did the campaigns over play their hand? We're going to speak with author Jeffrey Toobin and CNN senior political correspondent Candy Crowley.

Also, some surprising new words from an old U.S. foe. We're going to bring you a portion of Christiane Amanpour's exclusive one- on-one interview with President Khatami of Iran.

First, though, we want to bring you the latest headlines. And for that, let's turn to Bill Hemmer, who joins us from Atlanta with our war alert.

BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Paula, good morning.

On this Monday, here's what's happening. Reports of a military move on Kabul now. Anti-Taliban forces say they are under orders to advance on the Afghan capital. Reports indicating they've already captured several key cities, including Herat in the west and Mazir-i- Sharif in the north, as of Friday.

CNN journalists have seen hundreds of Northern Alliance troops heading toward the front lines today. Both sides are trading artillery fire along the fronts. Also, opposition sources telling CNN a Taliban ambush has left three journalists dead. French media identified two of the journalists as Johanne Sutton and Pierre Billaud. The third journalist not identified at this point. All were riding in a Northern Alliance convoy at the time of that ambush.

New estimates this morning on the financial cost of war. A report in the "New York Times" saying the U.S. government expects to spend more than a billion dollars a month. That figure expected to rise even as more U.S. forces are deployed in the region.

At home, the Pentagon has had to pay the cost of National Guard and Reserve air patrols and airport security.

Now, to anthrax. Trace amounts have been found in five more Senate offices all inside the Hart Office Building. Lieutenant Dan Nichols is the spokesman for the U.S. Capitol Police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. DAN NICHOLS, CAPITOL POLICE: By all indications, this is a cross-contamination issue, that other mail has come into contact with the original Daschle letter and now that's why we're following the pattern of the mail throughout the Hart Senate Office Building to determine if there are other areas that we need to identify and remediate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: And the CDC says trace amounts of anthrax pose no health risk. Spores have been found now in nine Senate offices in the Hart Building.

A new report on the disputed 2000 presidential election does conclude that George W. Bush would have won even with a statewide recount in Florida. The University of Chicago conducted a six month study for CNN and seven other media organizations. President Bush won Florida in the official count by a margin of 537 votes.

New violence in Northern Ireland has claimed another life. Police in Belfast say a pipe bomb exploded in the hand of a Protestant teenager as he tried to throw it. He later died of his wounds. A Protestant activist says the teen had picked up a device thrown by Catholics. The fighting broke out yesterday. Twenty-four police officers are reported injured there.

Also, baseball slugger Mark McGwire calling it a career at the age of 38. McGwire turned down a $30 million offer from the St. Louis Cardinals, citing injuries. Back in 1998, McGwire set a new record of 70 home runs in one season and this year Barry Bonds beat that record, 73 home runs in the season that we saw just completed. Big Mac out, on a good note, though, and a good guy, too -- Paula, back to you. Another update in 25 minutes. We'll talk more about the military at that point.

ZAHN: See you then, Bill.

HEMMER: OK. ZAHN: Thanks so much.

In Afghanistan, after weeks of near stalemate on the ground, Northern Alliance troops this morning are making some major advances. Columns of forces aligned against the Taliban are on the move and headed toward Kabul. Thos comes after a string of strategic advances across northern Afghanistan over the past 48 hours.

The escalated fighting is extremely dangerous for the journalists inside the country. Three reporters were killed overnight in an apparent ambush by Taliban forces.

We have a lot of ground to cover. Let's begin with Matthew Chance. He is near the front lines north of Kabul -- good morning, Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Paula, and confirmation from the defense officials of the Northern Alliance that what we've been witnessing throughout the course of the day local time here is, indeed, an advance towards the Afghan capital, Kabul, perhaps an attempt to capitalize on the gains that you mentioned in the west and in the north of Afghanistan.

They've been telling us about their territorial gains here north of the Afghan capital. They're saying their forces have moved some three kilometers, about a mile and a half down the road towards Kabul. They also say they've captured about 31 Taliban fighters and a number of Taliban checkpoints around the strategic Bagram Air Base, although they say the mountain, of course, that overlooks Bagram is still very much in Taliban hands.

Throughout the course of the day, we've been seeing hundreds, if not thousands of troops of the Northern Alliance move down the road towards Kabul, bolstering those front line positions of the Northern Alliance. They've, of course, been followed, as well, by tanks, heavy artillery, armored personnel -- armed personnel carriers as well.

We also managed to get pictures earlier today local time of what appear to be Western military advisers. They're the first shots we've managed to videotape of these advisers. It's an open secret that British and American special forces are here apparently coordinating U.S.-led air strikes on the Taliban front lines here north of the Afghan capital.

Throughout the course of today, we've been seeing B-52 bombers and other fighter bomber aircraft of the coalition dropping their ordinance quite intensively on those Taliban front lines, even though Washington has expressed its concern, its reticence about a Northern Alliance advance into the city of Kabul itself. We are seeing this sort of limited support for this advance across the Shamali Plains.

For their part, the Northern Alliance say they will advance, but they will not enter Kabul itself, preferring to wait instead, they say, for some kind of broad-based ethnic, ethnically broad-based political agreement to be in place for a future government before they actually enter the Afghan capital itself. So we're watching that situation very closely, indeed -- Paula.

ZAHN: So, Matthew, what is their expectation? Is it a matter of days, do they think, or weeks before they actually go into Kabul?

CHANCE: It's difficult to say, isn't it, because the losses of the Taliban have been so dramatic. Their rule has essentially collapsed across northern and parts of western Afghanistan almost in the past few days. It's difficult to say how quickly or how slowly this advance will take place.

Certainly there have been, according to Northern Alliance officials, some significant advances that I mentioned to you earlier there towards the Afghan capital. If they do stand outside the gates of Kabul, as they've said they would, waiting for some kind of political agreement, that could take weeks, even months for the United States-led coalition, for the international community to get round the table, bring all the parties together from all the different ethnic groups -- the Uzbeks, the Tajiks, and, of course, the Pashtuns, who are the biggest ethnic group here in Afghanistan -- to agree on some kind of power sharing arrangement for the future government of Afghanistan.

Who knows when that's going to happen -- Paula.

ZAHN: Matthew, we reported at the top of this broadcast that you lost three of your colleagues in an ambush. What kind of precautions are you taking now?

CHANCE: Well, it's, of course, a very volatile situation. When you're in a position where the front lines are moving quite rapidly, of course, they can move one way or the other. One minute you may be covering an advance by the Northern Alliance forces deep into Taliban controlled territory, the next minute you can see all those Northern Alliance forces running in the other direction, screaming, "Get back! Get back!"

So it's a very volatile situation here. Obviously these unfortunate journalists got caught up in the middle of it.

ZAHN: Matthew Chance, thanks so much for that update. We will be checking in with you throughout the morning.

As Matthew just reported, most indications on the ground point to an expected assault on the capital of Kabul. The question is when. We don't know exactly when that might happen, but the Bush administration is sending signals it would prefer the Northern Alliance hold off.

CNN's senior United Nations correspondent Richard Roth explains why -- Richard, good morning.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Paula.

A bit of a quiet break on a Monday morning here in the midst of a week of tumult here at the annual debate at the general assembly. Unprecedented security levels here, and inside the U.N. building today, one of the most important meetings. The so-called six plus two group -- Russia, U.S. and the surrounding countries on the Afghan border areas.

This group has had its major differences on Afghan's future -- Afghanistan's future, especially between Iran and Pakistan. Now, they are ready to speak with one voice in a statement today, calling for unified, politically balanced, multi-ethnic government there, a theme echoed in yesterday's general assembly session by British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK STRAW, BRITISH FOREIGN MINISTER: The future of Afghanistan must be put into the hands of the Afghan people. There must be no more great games with Afghan people the pawns. No more regional rivalries with Afghan people the victims.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: More than 80 countries lost citizens in the disaster at the World Trade Center site two months ago. So while they work on a political solution for the future Afghanistan, the nations of the world that came here to the general assembly session remember what happened in New York two months ago. President Bush, Secretary General Annan paying silent homage to the victims -- Paula.

ZAHN: All right, Richard, we're going to leave it there for now but continue to check in with you throughout the morning. Thanks so much.

Osama bin Laden claims to have both chemical and nuclear weapons. That word came in published reports over the weekend. The comments appeared in an interview given recently to a Pakistani journalist at a secret location in Afghanistan. Western reaction is skeptical.

There are also reports that 10 Pakistani nuclear scientists met with al Qaeda and the Taliban, talking about the potential of working on a nuclear weapons program. "USA Today" quotes U.S. officials as saying several of those scientists agreed to work on the project but, of course, they said they needed the permission of the Pakistani government. But even the president of Pakistan says he does not believe bin Laden has nuclear weapons.

In a little bit, we'll be talking to the journalist who conducted that interview with Osama bin Laden. But first, let's turn to Sandy Berger, the former national security adviser to President Clinton. He joins us from Washington with his perspective on al Qaeda and its potential to unleash weapons of mass destruction.

Good to see you again. Welcome.

SAMUEL BERGER, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: How seriously do you take these reports that Osama bin Laden has either chemical or nuclear weapons?

BERGER: Well, after September 11 I don't think we can afford to rule out any possibility or option. But I think it is unlikely that bin Laden or al Qaeda have nuclear weapons. We know that they have sought to acquire weapons of mass destruction of various types, that they have experimented with chemical weapons. But to actually have a usable nuclear device, I think, is unlikely.

ZAHN: I'd like to quickly replay a small part of what Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld had to say about this very specific issue yesterday as he hit the talk show circuit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It means that one has to assume that they either have them or they will get them unless they're stopped. And it does not take a genius to understand that if they have them or get them at some point in the future, that they will be perfectly willing to use them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So how does that affect U.S. strategy at this point, Sandy? BERGER: Well, first of all, I absolutely agree with what Secretary Rumsfeld has said. This has certainly demonstrated the absolute venality to use such weapons were they to get them.

I think it means, number one, we have to do everything we can on the intelligence side to determine what their capabilities are. Number two, we have to obviously continue the unrelenting assault on this group to try to disrupt it and destroy it, because we do know that they will use weapons of mass destruction if they have them. We have to increase our detection capability, our teams here in the United States that have the capability of diffusing and disarming nuclear weapons should one be introduced to the United States.

We can't, we have to assume here that this is a possibility in the future. I don't think there's any evidence that I have seen that they have these, this nuclear weapons capability at this stage.

ZAHN: How concerned are you about this report in "USA Today" about these 10 Pakistani scientists actually sitting down, and one scientist in particular, with al Qaeda and Taliban members?

BERGER: Well, there, you know, we have to be very concerned about cooperation between Pakistani scientists or other scientists that may have been working in WMD, weapons of mass destruction programs that might be purchasable or acquirable by Osama bin Laden. I think General President Musharraf has made very clear that he is, intends to exercise the greatest degree of control to assure that security of his nuclear weapons and to make sure there is no cooperation between his operations, his weapons, his nuclear operations and al Qaeda.

ZAHN: Given the opposition to this American and coalition campaign in his country, what degree of confidence do you have that President Musharraf can maintain control of his nuclear weapons program?

BERGER: Well, he has apparently taken further steps in the past month or so to secure his nuclear arsenal. There are not, the nuclear weapons that Pakistan has are ones that obviously they seek to maintain for their own deterrence, for their own purposes, and they have every incentive, obviously, therefore, in maintaining their security.

ZAHN: A final question for you. As you no doubt heard on some of the talk shows yesterday, a lot of people throwing out the idea well, if Osama bin Laden really had nuclear weapons or a dirty bomb he would have used it already. What do you say to them?

BERGER: Well, again, I don't think that we can be complacent or take anything for granted here. I think this is all the more reason why we have to be unrelenting in our effort here to destroy and dismantle this operation with great intensity.

ZAHN: As always, good to have your insights.

Thank you so much, Sandy Berger.

BERGER: Thank you.

ZAHN: Appreciate your time this morning.

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