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CNN Live At Daybreak

Bin Laden Says His Al Qaeda Group Has Nuclear and Chemical Weapons

Aired November 12, 2001 - 07:19   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Osama bin Laden has issued a threat. In an interview with a Pakistani journalist, bin Laden said his al Qaeda group has nuclear and chemical weapons. Well, that depends on which version of this interview you read. He also said he will use them if the U.S. attacks with weapons of mass destruction.

The White House is downplaying those claims.

Hamid Mir is the journalist who actually conducted that interview. He joins us from Islamabad. Welcome. Good to have you with us.

HAMID MIR, BIN LADEN'S BIOGRAPHER: Thank you.

ZAHN: Mr. Mir, I need for you to clear up some of the contradictions here. In the Urdu version of your reporting, which is the Pakistani dialect, no reference was made to the fact that Osama bin Laden claimed he had either chemical or nuclear weapons but somehow in the English version that information surfaced. What is the truth here?

MIR: You see, there was some sentences missing from the English version and some sentences were missing from the Urdu version. But the next day in the second part of the interview, which was published in "Daily Ausuf" (ph) of Islamabad, the whole thing was published, regarding his threat of using the nuclear and chemical weapons.

So there is no contradiction now because everything is published in Urdu. And in two days, because this interview is very long. And we are translating it very carefully and when you will read it, the whole interview, in a couple of days, you will see there is no contradiction.

ZAHN: All right, so for those of us who don't have time in this show to read through that article, can you confirm for us this morning that Osama bin Laden told you that he not only has chemical weapons, but he also has nuclear weapons? Is that what he told you?

MIR: You see, I played the cassette of the interview to one correspondent of the CNN and he heard it that he used the word nuclear deterrent. He said that if the United States of America is going to use nuclear and chemical weapons against us, then we reserve the right to respond back. But we will not use these kinds of weapons first. We will retaliate. And he used again and again the word nuclear deterrent.

ZAHN: Did he admit to you, though, that he had nuclear weapons?

MIR: You see, when he says that he will respond back with the same kind of weapons, it means he has something. But there are some doubts and questions that if a person have these kind of weapons and the person is without any nuclear science knowledge, it is very difficult to maintain these kind of weapons and it is very difficult to use these kind of weapons because you don't have the delivery system. So one can believe that actually he has some small dirty bombs like briefcase bombs.

ZAHN: Did you ask him if he has the ability to do something more sophisticated than that?

MIR: You see I was -- I tried my best to get more information on this issue, but he was not ready to speak more on this issue. But after the interview was finished and we were just having tea, I engaged him again on this issue and I put this question that from where you got these kind of weapons.

So initially he was reluctant, but then he told me that you go through some reports published in different Western newspapers that more than 70 nuclear weapons are missing from Russia. They were stolen and they are available to the underworld of Russia and the underworld of Central Asian states like Uzbekistan and Tajikistan.

So one can purchase these kind of dirty nuclear weapons, chemical weapons from this underworld.

After coming back to Pakistan, I found out one report from the BBC Web site of 26th of October, and that report says that there are 30 nuclear weapons missing from the Russia and that report says that Osama bin Laden have some links in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan and according to my information, there are some Uzbeks and Tajiks in his own ranks. The famous commander of the 55th Brigade of Taliban is Jalaluddin Haqqani and is an ex-Soviet Union military officer. And Osama bin Laden can establish his links with some of the disgruntled nuclear scientists in Russia through people like Jalaluddin Haqqani.

So I think this is difficult to believe, that he has these kind of weapons. But I must say that we should not reject his claim. We must give serious consideration because there are a lot of reports available in different Western newspapers and TV channels that more than 70 nuclear weapons was stolen from Russia.

So where are these weapons? This is a big question.

ZAHN: So Mr. Mir, are you saying to me this morning, then, that Osama bin Laden admitted to you that that's exactly how he procured weapons, from Soviet scientists who left the program that used to be a part of the Soviet Union?

MIR: You see, he, when he says that we have nuclear deterrent for our defense and he says that we will respond back with the same kind of weapons, it means that he is admitting. But I exchanged more views on this issue with him when we were having tea and this conversation was not recorded.

ZAHN: Mr. Mir, I need a brief answer to this one. I understand you were wrapped in a blanket, that your eyes were covered on your five hour trip to Mr. Bin Laden's location. Do you have any idea where you were taken?

MIR: Actually, the place where the interview was conducted, that place was a mud house and it was much colder than Kabul. And I was hearing some anti-aircraft gunfires. So I was close to the war front and because the place was much colder than Kabul, so I can say that it was north of Afghanistan.

ZAHN: And Mr. Mir, I understand that Mr. Bin Laden has some very sophisticated maps showing locations of what he believed were locations that might ultimately involve American troops on the ground?

MIR: These kind of maps were shown to me in the last interview, which was conducted in 1998 in Kandahar. This time he was not showing any kind of maps to me. This time he gave me only two hours. Last time he gave me six hours. And this time he was not ready to entertain all questions from me.

He avoided many questions from me. On one of my questions about the fatwa issued by the chief cleric of the Al-Azad University (ph) of Egypt, he became angry.

But the last, in the last interview, he was ready to answer all the questions. So there was a lot of difference between my last meetings with him and the present meeting.

ZAHN: Mr. Mir, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you very much for being with us.

Still to come on the road in Afghanistan, an inside look at a country in ruins. Please stay with us.

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