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CNN Live At Daybreak
Richard Butler's Perspective on Iran
Aired November 12, 2001 - 07:36 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As you know, for years Washington has listed Iran as a supporter of international terrorism, but since September 11, U.S. officials have described Iran as a potential partner in the war on terrorism.
Let's talk more about this and the latest reports about an al Qaeda nuclear capability with Richard Butler of the Council on Foreign Relations, the former U.N. chief weapons inspector and our ambassador in residence -- good morning.
RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER U.N. CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Paula.
ZAHN: Just a quick reaction to that brief part of the interview with Mr. Khatami.
BUTLER: Well, it's good that he's saying what he is saying that he supports the action against terrorism, but there were a few problems in there as well.
ZAHN: The linkage that he made to the...
BUTLER: The linkage, yes.
ZAHN: And he made it quite obliquely to the problems in the Middle East.
BUTLER: Well, it's -- yes. It's hardly news for us to be told that things have their reason. And he was a bit laborious there, I thought, but the implied reason was that somehow we caused this to happen to us on September 11 because of some of our actions. I won't go there, Paula. I don't think you should blame the victim for the crime.
As we were saying on Friday, there are big problems in the Middle East, big problems, in particular, the continued presence of Saddam Hussein and the Israel-Palestine problem. They have their own terms, they need to be solved. I would be unhappy with linking those directly to what happened at the hands of the terrorists of September 11.
ZAHN: Are you comfortable with any role that Iran may fight or find itself in and trying to fight terrorism, a state, which of course is... BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: ... on a terrorist...
BUTLER: Well, it's been...
ZAHN: ... -- a state list of...
BUTLER: Yes, it's been...
ZAHN: ... countries which sponsor terrorism?
BUTLER: It's been listed in that way because of its support for Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Palestine. Now they are joining in and facilitating the effort against al Qaeda and I think that should be appreciated. They will also be an important country in the talks that are now getting underway to find a new government for Afghanistan. Six countries in -- at the U.N. are now going to start talking about that. The main neighbors of Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan and China and the three other Stans, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, and this is a very important development to start to put together a government that the Afghan people can support and who will not treat them in the way that the Taliban has and, hopefully, will not give a home to terrorists.
ZAHN: And it's not until that piece of the puzzle is resolved then that we will see the Northern Alliance troops actually go into Kabul, right?
BUTLER: I think that's right. Northern Alliance has leapt forward in the last 48 hours. They now reportedly hold about 40 percent of the country, but interestingly, they're being told to stay outside the gates of Kabul, the capital. And I think the reason for that is that we first got to put together a government that can rule from Kabul.
ZAHN: You just listened to my interview that I did with Amid Mir (ph) who was the Pakistani journalist who interviewed Osama bin Laden. And there have been some contradictions in the reporting about exactly what Osama bin Laden told him, but I think he made it very clear, whether you read this interview in Urdu or English,...
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: ... Osama bin Laden talked about having chemical weapons as a deterrent. That is different than actually having them and being able to use them, correct?
BUTLER: It is. And I find that the most curious part of what Osama bin Laden has reported to have said, I do not find it doubtful that he may have chemical weapons or have acquired a nuclear weapon. We must take that extremely seriously, both are possible. And overhead imagery has shown in the past, dead animals around one of his camps, indicating that he'd been testing the chemical weapons on those animals. And we all know where the nuclear weapon may have come from. What I find really curious, though, is this notion of deterrence. What is he saying that -- has he got a missile with which to fire this weapon, I doubt it. How would he deter us from -- I don't understand it. I think it's really fuzzy. I think it's bluster, but we have to take it very seriously because there are -- there are loose nukes out there and he may have acquired one.
ZAHN: But the possibility of his having a dirty bomb is far greater...
BUTLER: Yes.
ZAHN: ... than having a highly sophisticated nuclear weapon with a...
BUTLER: Yes.
ZAHN: ... delivery system to watch it?
BUTLER: Absolutely. And let me just go back quickly to this concept of deterrence. What I do believe is true of him is that whatever weapon he has he will use. And I think that's what, as Sandy Berger was saying, there's a saying about such people that they've never had a weapon that they didn't use, and I think that's true. So we've got to be vigilant.
ZAHN: Richard Butler, see you tomorrow morning,...
BUTLER: OK.
ZAHN: ... same time, same place. Appreciate your perspective.
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