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CNN Live At Daybreak

Interview of Hanan Ashrawi, Palestinian Legislator

Aired November 15, 2001 - 08:24   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As we concentrate on the global fight against terrorism, the conflict in the Middle East goes on. Israeli soldiers, this morning, raided a West Bank village and a refugee camp in Gaza. One Palestinian was killed, and several others were hurt.

Israel's foreign minister, Shimon Peres, says he wants an end to such violence. On this program yesterday, he told me that could happen soon with some cooperation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHIMON PERES, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: The feeling is that this is a general wish of most of the humanity. And if the Palestinians are really being pressed by the call and reduce violence, I think the ground is prepared for a settlement. The crisis today is very deep, but on the other hand, the solution is rather close.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: The Bush administration is likely to define U.S. policy in the Middle East in the next several days. In a speech next week, Secretary of State Colin Powell is expected to call for a major Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian territories, and that would be followed by peace negotiations on final status issues, including borders and refugees. And Powell is also expected to demand that political negotiations resume, but only if Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, denounces terrorism and makes efforts to stop the violence.

Let's get the Palestinian view this morning from Hanan Ashrawi. She is a member of the Palestinian legislative council. She joins us from Ramallah this morning -- welcome back.

HANAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATOR: Thank you, Paula. It's good to be back.

ZAHN: Thank you. So what is your reaction to what little we know that Secretary of State Powell is going to say about the Middle East conflict next week in this key speech?

ASHRAWI: Yes. Well, actually, that has to be seen in the context of President Bush's statement about the Palestinian state, and that it is part of the U.S. vision. Now, we need to see a translation of that vision into policy and into complete steps on the ground simultaneously, dealing with the escalations and violence by the Israeli Occupation Army. And at the same time, trying to bring about a negotiating process that would have substance, that would have credibility, and that would, in a sense, indicate an American political will to get engaged, and to bring Israel to compliance, and at the same time, to indicate that there is a clear light at the end of the tunnel.

ZAHN: So are you...

ASHRAWI: The Powell speech that we are all -- yes.

ZAHN: Yes, Ms. Ashrawi, are you basically saying, then, without U.S. involvement and without much more engagement than you've seen over the last several months, this is -- the peace process will not move forward?

ASHRAWI: Absolutely, because it will be subject to the asymmetry (ph) of power between occupied and occupied on the one hand, with no intervention or avocation (ph), and with no compliance by Israel, no implementation of any signed agreement. And at the same time, it would give Sharon and his legal (ph) government the green light to feel that they can act with total impunity, and this has happened actually.

They have been using American gunships, American warplanes, American weapons, American front (ph) to strike at Palestinians, to demolish homes, to kill, to carry out the policy of assassinations, and that has worked very negatively in terms of American standing interest (ph), and creditability in the region. It is important for the U.S. to reclaim its own policy and to be seen as an even-handed peace broker, and not the tail wagging the dogs syndrome, where Israel claims to carry out all of these atrocities in the name of the U.S.

So it is significant and important for the U.S., particularly throughout the region, to be seen to be in command of its own policy, and to be seen to be decisive and to hold Israel accountable, and of course, to act in way which is even-handed and which is consistent with international law and U.N. resolutions.

ZAHN: But the very things you have just accused Israel of doing, Shimon Peres, essentially, accused the Palestinians of doing yesterday. And he, essentially, said that Israel would withdraw from those two remaining West Bank towns if Yasser Arafat would get serious about renouncing terrorism.

ASHRAWI: Well, the real question, the real difference is that Israel is the occupying power. It occupies Palestinian territory. We're not occupying Israel, and we are not demolishing their homes, and we are not shelling them and destroying their crops and carrying out a policy of assassination. So the basic difference is the fact that the Palestinians are under occupation. Israel is a military occupying power, number one. Number two, there is no such thing as a safe, calm, secure, pleasant or model occupation.

So you cannot have a free hand to wreak havoc, to destroy Palestinian lives, and then to come out and say that the Palestinians have to be quiet and to be calm. What we need to do is deal with the causes of violence, which is essentially the occupation. Now, we have expressed our willingness to start negotiations immediately without any preconditions. Unfortunately the lack of commitment, and the nature of this Israeli government, have prevented any kind of peaceful resolution, knowing full well that there is no military solution.

The lessons of history from all colonial experiences indicate that when a people are bent on gaining their freedom, their dignity, their independence, no amount of military violence can defeat their will. And this is the lesson that has to be understood, and of course, we have to make sure that there is a basic legality to any solution. That Palestinians cannot be brought, by force, to violate their own rights.

ZAHN: But you no doubt know what the Israelis say. They say that Yasser Arafat can't control the extremist wings of his population. To what extent can Yasser Arafat do anything about what Islamic Jihad and Hamas do?

ASHRAWI: Well, certainly, President Arafat, like any other elected leader, is bound by law. In a sense, he has his credibility from his own people, from being elected, and not from Israeli approval or lack of it. Too, any political organization has the right to exist within the Democratic system and in accordance with the law, because we do respect political pluralism. However, any organization that violates the law or that resorts to violence, particularly violence against civilians, certainly should be held accountable in accordance with the law and review process.

So that is the only way to deal with the different political factions, and of course, with the military wings that quite often do violate the law. And President Arafat has arrested quite a few people, but he shouldn't arrest people only because the Israelis want him to become a surrogate occupier, or want him to carry out their security responsibility. They should do so, so they violate the rule of law within Palestine and violate Palestinian law. And that is what his happening.

ZAHN: Ms. Ashrawi, yes, before I let you go...

ASHRAWI: It is not a question of control...

ZAHN: Yes, I need just a real brief answer, because I'm up against a commercial break here. Shimon Peres also said yesterday that he thinks that one thing that might impress the Palestinian side would be a new coalition of the United States, Russia, India and China, and getting involved in the Middle East peace process. He also said that would have real effect on Israeli public opinion as well. Do you agree?

ASHRAWI: Well, I think that's rather lacking. We would like to see a global coalition, because we think this is a global investment in peace. But I think that the United States already has partners in terms of the European Union, the U.N., which is the source of the U.N. resolutions that are the basis of the peace process, and of course, we would like to see Arab countries involved. We would like to see Russia involved, and we have no problem seeing China involved. The thing is, is that a political agenda is that a road map are the clear definitions. Now, the clear objective is the end of the occupation and the establishment of the Palestinian states. Then, all of these powers should make sure that they guarantee the security of both sides and compliance by the Israelis in terms of implementing the U.N. resolutions that --.

ZAHN: All right, Ms. Ashrawi, we've got to leave it there. We're up against a commercial break here. Thank you very much for your time this morning -- appreciate it.

ASHRAWI: Thank you. It's my pleasure.

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