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CNN Live At Daybreak
Interview of Paul Barker, Director of CARE
Aired November 16, 2001 - 06:42 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: With the anticipated fall of the Taliban government, what happens to the Afghan refugees, who have been streaming across the border into Pakistan?
Joining us now on the telephone from Islamabad, Pakistan to talk about the plight of the refugees is Paul Barker. He's the director for CARE in Afghanistan. Thank you for joining us.
First, can you tell us, what are you hearing from the Pakistan government about the future of these Afghan refugees?
PAUL BARKER, CARE FOR AFGHANISTAN (via telephone): Well, the Pakistan government is not actually accepting that they are refugees. They're calling them externally displaced people. Their concern is not to receive tremendous quantities of refugees, as it did during the 1980s, which then have become basically an economic burden on Pakistan.
As you recall in the early days of this conflict, there were estimates that a million-and-a-half refugees might come across from Afghanistan to Pakistan. As it has turned out, it's a far smaller number, maybe 10 percent at that. About a million-and-a-half people have been displaced by the war, but most of those are displaced inside of Afghanistan.
CALLAWAY: Mr. Barker, can you repeat that? How many people are you saying? What are the numbers now that you're getting on the number of refugees?
BARKER: Well, the number of refugees inside Pakistan is somewhere in the neighborhood of 150,000. Nobody knows very well, but this is about the ballpark estimate, which the UNHCR is giving.
CALLAWAY: And first, we should say that you are in Pashawar. You are not in Islamabad.
BARKER: That's correct.
CALLAWAY: Yes. Tell us, how do you feel about the safety of the people working for CARE right now?
BARKER: We're a bit anxious. Most of our program is inside of Afghanistan. We have over 320 staff still working in Afghanistan, in Kabul and in several areas south of Kabul. And the one thing which most aid workers -- actually all of the aid workers I know, who have worked in Afghanistan, give the Taliban credit for establishing a high level of security there. And with the sudden fall of the Taliban, that has been replaced by a high level of insecurity and a lot unknowns. We're kind of anxious about what the immediate future is going to hold for our staff.
CALLAWAY: Yes, I was going to ask you, what changes have you seen compared to, say, 30 days ago, in the situation there? Are you able to get the supplies that you need in?
BARKER: Well, some of our programs have been uninterrupted. We're still supplying water in Kabul to over a quarter-of-a-million people. And we've supplied food to over 60,000 people in Kabul, a six months' supply of food. The Rural Extension Program has been ongoing. And we've gotten recently another convey of 100 tons of trucks to the displaced people around Kabul.
It is difficult, and we would wish to get specifically higher numbers of resources across. Things were picking up until the sudden collapse of the Taliban authority, and now, very little aid is going across the border in the last few days. So we do hope that there will be a return to stability in the very near future, because we do have to get aid in before the winter closes in...
CALLAWAY: Yes, the winter...
BARKER: ... more remote parts.
CALLAWAY: ... yes, the harsh winter coming on, and it's more important than ever to get those supplies to you. It does seem like they're in a state of confusion right now. Does that, do you think, perhaps blur sometimes that effort to humanitarian and military effort?
BARKER: I think -- pardon me. Could you repeat the question?
CALLAWAY: Is that blurring -- is there a blurring of humanitarian and military efforts going on right now, with all of the confusion going on?
BARKER: Well, not yet, although it's a thing we're concerned about. And we think it's very important to maintain a distraction between military and humanitarian efforts, so that our efforts are not impeded. Also, we feel we are professionals in the work we do, and certainly the military in the work they do, and it's better if we keep to what we're both professionals at. So I hope that there is a distinction (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
The main area that could happen is if we're not able to get enough relief into the remote areas before the winter snows set in, and if emergency airlifts become required. Hopefully, that still can be met by the World Food Program, but a lot of that will have to be worked out as we get into the winter.
CALLAWAY: Paul Barker with CARE for Afghanistan, director for CARE in Afghanistan, good luck to you. Thank you for joining us today.
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