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CNN Live At Daybreak

Interview of Kris Janowski; Reflections on Murdered Journalists

Aired November 23, 2001 - 06:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DONNA KELLEY, CNN ANCHOR: And now to the plight of the thousands of people displaced by the Afghanistan campaign. Joining me now from Quetta, Pakistan is Kris Janowski, spokesman for the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees. Kris, tell me what the plan is right now to try and help the refugees. What are you trying to do now?

KRIS JANOWSKI, SPOKESMAN FOR THE U.N. HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR REFUGEES: We're trying to do different things in Pakistan. Of course, for those people who are outside of Afghanistan, but also inside of Afghanistan, we have sent a couple of convoys to Herat, which is fairly easy accessible by road.

We're also doing distribution of aid in Kabul and we're also planning to do more in various other areas. But our work, for the time being, is very much limited by very, very precarious security situation in most of Afghanistan.

KELLEY: You have a security worry. How bad is that and what are you watching for - warlords and what else?

JANOWSKI: We're worried about different things, but of course, on the good side, on the positive side, we've got a huge opening in the north of Afghanistan, and we are hoping that the scenario of a possible winter disaster in Afghanistan is less valid now than it was a few weeks ago, let's say.

But at the same time we do have fighting in many parts of the country. In the south especially, in the Kandahar area, we are worried that a military action - a sweeping military area there could send a lot of people fleeing this way to southern Pakistan.

KELLEY: The weather is a huge worry, but you're doing some what you call quick, impact projects. What is that?

JANOWSKI: The quick impact projects are essentially projects for people to be able to help themselves. For example, knit sweaters or make warm clothing and so on and so forth. We had these projects in Afghanistan before and basically what we're trying to do is we're trying to revive them so that people are warmer. One big worry in Afghanistan, of course, during the winter will be (INAUDIBLE) to keep people warm, to give them a roof over their head, and give them the basics - blankets, stoves, in addition to food of course, but they also need a lot of things basically to stay warm throughout the winter.

KELLEY: Can you tell us - do you have any idea of the numbers of those that are coming to camps and those that are trying to make it back home?

JANOWSKI: Well we estimate that since September 11th about 150,000 people have left Afghanistan for Pakistan and there has been a huge displacement inside Afghanistan with some hundreds of thousands of people, presumably leaving big cities and going to the countryside. Some of these displaced people, up to 60,000 or so, are stuck in a very makeshift camp - tented camp on the other side of the border from here with not very much aid. Some of these people have managed to cross the borders.

Altogether probably we could talk about two million people or so, who have been affected by this crisis and the previous wars and these people are still displaced within Afghanistan in addition to millions displaced outside the country.

KELLEY: How quickly can you get the camp set up right now?

JANOWSKI: Well we set up actually only several camps on this side of the border. Most people who are crossing into Pakistan are actually trying to keep a low profile and they're reluctant to go into camps. We have set up a couple of very good camps, but the people are not too willing to go to them. Some of are going there - we've got now thousands of people in those camps, but most of them are staying with relatives or staying in towns and basically trying to wait and see what happens and hopefully one day they will go back, indeed.

A lot of people have been going back to Afghanistan already from Iran where this past week we had a record of over 5,000 people going back in a single week, perhaps not to stay, but at least to look at their property and at least to indicate that the doors to some extent are now open to them.

KELLEY: Kris, you say they're reluctant to come to the camps - why?

JANOWSKI: Well they are reluctant to come to the camps because living around a big city, leaving a big city is - basically gives you more options. You can perhaps sell something, buy something, find a little temporary job, and that's why some people are actually reluctant to do it, and some people have tribal or community or basically family support in these areas of Pakistan.

One has to remember that the entire border belt of Pakistan is essentially populated by exactly the same people who populate the eastern part of Afghanistan. So they do support each other and for them this border that runs through this territory isn't really much of a border.

KELLEY: We wish you all the best in helping people who need it so desperately. Kris Janowski with the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees. Thank you. Killing of four journalists ambushed on the road from Jalalabad to Kabul this week has prompted others covering the war in Afghanistan to reflect on life and death. CNN's Bill Delaney shares his thoughts from Jalalabad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL DELANEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In a journalist's life thousands of places embraced or often is not endured and then left behind. And from the provincial capital of eastern Afghanistan, Jalalabad dozens of journalists decided to leave after four colleagues died on a Monday morning, shot to death on the road to the Afghan capital Kabul by unknown killers - maybe Taliban, maybe bandits.

Four journalists I never met, but would travel with to Pakistan. CNN, asked by Reuters employer of two of the dead, to assist in bringing out the bodies. Around 9:00 in the morning, our Red Cross unarmed convoy of four vehicles left abruptly.

From Jalalabad, a city where the Taliban gave up power without a shot two weeks or so ago, where heavily armed factions with thousands of fighters now so far bloodlessly contend for power. A kind of chaos most journalists in Jalalabad decided to get out of, at least for a time.

Organizing to leave later in a convoy separate from the Red Cross convoy, everyone's shaken, some heartbroken by deaths in the family - of people knew for years, or had breakfast with that Monday morning. In our small Red Cross convoy, Jonah Hall (ph) of the television agency APTN - he and his Afghan driver escaped alive from the same convoy of 15 or so vehicles, the four journalists died in, warned back by drivers, able to frantically reverse from the scene of the killings.

So I was in the mute incomprehensible presence of tragedy, and in the presence of good fortune, Jonah alive. Through stony desert, four plain wood coffins, life's fierce mysterious light out in a young woman and three young men. Two hours on the road, then Turkham Crossing into the Kyber Pass and Pakistan.

Four more souls crossing into a break in the mountains, Alexander The Great and his army marched through more than 2,000 years ago. And in Pakistan deaths harsh technicalities - the bodies finally placed in a refrigerated truck, transferred then to a hospital in Pashawar where family would come for them -- family of an Australian, an Italian, a Spaniard, and an Afghan.

Dozens of journalists, hours later, followed in their convoy out of the turmoil of eastern Afghanistan. Under the hard light of the desert another arrival, another farewell. Bill Delaney, CNN, Islamabad, Pakistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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