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CNN Live At Daybreak
Bombings in Israel Claim Many Young Lives; Interview of Marc Ginsberg
Aired December 03, 2001 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Israel is mourning loss of life today as well. ITN's John Irvine takes us on the Jerusalem streets and into the chaos just after the suicide bomb attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN IRVINE, ITN (voice-over): The bloody 12 hours began with the killing of teenagers in the center of Jerusalem. An ITV news cameraman was among the first to come across the appalling aftermath. Young lives ended, the work of two suicide bombers. The devices that they detonated simultaneously contained nuts and bolts, a hail of shrapnel that cut down dozens of people.
Many of the wounded were taken away in a critical condition. Most of the people caught in the explosions were teenagers enjoying a night out in the city's bar and cafe district. I want my son, said this desperate woman. The death toll stands at 10. The eldest was 20 years old - the youngest just 14.
(on camera): This attack was coordinated and timed very deliberate. It is just a few hours since the end of Shabbat, the Jewish Sabbath. It is a time when Jerusalem's cafes and bars in this area are at their busiest.
(voice-over): Emergency crews that came from as far away as Tel Aviv, treated more than 150 injured, but even as they worked it became clear this attack was not over.
Just yards away, a car bomb caused even more panic. The events in Jerusalem were a shattering blow for the Israeli public, but there was a ghastly sequel. This was the work of a lone suicide bomber in the Mediterranean port of Haifa. He chose a packed bus on a main road. He bordered it, bought a ticket, and then set off an explosion that claimed the lives of at least 15 people.
The nature of the attacks and the high death toll prompted a stern faced American president to make this statement at the White House.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Chairman Arafat must do everything in his power to find those who murdered innocent Israelis and bring them to justice. IRVINE: Yasser Arafat's security forces have arrested several suspects, but the Israelis will want more action in the days ahead. The severity of the crackdown on fundamentalist groups like Hamas will determine the extent of Israeli retaliation.
The rounding up of extremists within Palestinian ranks is not without risks for Yasser Arafat. But he is under enormous pressure to put an end to the suicide bombings. The Americans have made clear this is not a moment of truth, but the moment.
John Irvine, ITN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Let's learn some more now about the situation in the Middle East. We're joined this morning by analyst Ambassador Marc Ginsberg. We thank you very much for your time this morning sir.
MARC GINSBERG, MIDDLE EAST ANALYST: Good morning Leon.
HARRIS: I'd like to ask you what you think now about this - the window of opportunity for peace here. Has it - it is obviously closing, but how wide open do you think the opportunity is right now?
GINSBERG: Leon, we once again are in another cycle where we have suicide attack, the rounding up of prisoners, the release of prisoners and other suicide attacks. So where we have to go is beyond this cycle, and we must do the following. The United States has to bring pressure along with the European Union on Chairman Arafat, not only to arrest these prisoners, but also to have them extradited out of the West Bank.
He can not be trusted to keep them in prison. They are determined to disrupt the peace process and his leadership is under attack, and he himself is forfeiting leadership to his own by - as a result of the way in which he's managing the current situation.
Secondly, the Palestinians have to define once and for all what they're willing to accept and so far as a peace agreement with Israel. Until they do so, until they specifically indicate why they rejected the Camp David proposals put forward by Prime Minister Barak, it's going to be very hard to compel the Israelis to negotiate an agreement with the Palestinian authority.
HARRIS: Is it possible for the Palestinians, do you think, to actually come up with what it is that they - that they actually want at this particular point?
GINSBERG: Well they keep claiming that they want a resumption of negotiations, but they don't specify exactly what those negotiations are meant to achieve. Now indeed while we have in Israel a right-wing government that may not be as generous as the former labor government was with respect to Palestinian Israeli negotiations.
It is imperative for the Israeli people to believe once and for all that Mr. Arafat is prepared not to hide behind Hamas and Islamic Jihad and let them bleed Israel's spiritually and morally and at the same time to take the responsibility once and for all to tell his people that it's time to make an agreement with Israel that's doable.
He has failed that test of leadership since the Camp David negotiations. He has been indecisive. He has not been prepared to negotiate and his public has lost confidence in him, which is why he's lost support in the Arab street in the West Bank and in Gaza.
HARRIS: You know that's - you hit - that last point was the point I was going to hit with you next because it seems as though - I mean we've been through this a number of times. We've talked about these sort of things a number of times. But this time around it seems as though that the failure of Mr. Arafat to maintain some sort of control over these radical factions, this may be a little bit different than the ones in the past here. Do you think this is his last opportunity as leader there?
GINSBERG: Well you know one has to ask what is Mr. Sharon going to do now that he's returned to Jerusalem and his government is currently convening to discuss its response to these latest terror attacks. To round up the suspects after the latest round of terror attacks is clearly not sufficient. I'm afraid that Mr. Arafat has to admit that he's incapable of making the decisions necessary for peace.
The Saudis, the Egyptians, the Moroccans, and there are other allies who after all had made the grand bargain with the United States to enter into negations to bring about a resolution of the Arab- Israeli conflict. They have to step forward and put the pressure on him because he clearly is incapable of making the decisions necessary to stop the violence and to negotiate in good faith with Israel.
HARRIS: But you know if he is not the person for this job and I've been hearing over the past - well the past - I don't know, maybe 24 hours or so, voices coming from within the Kineset in Israel saying that now is the time to get Mr. Arafat out of the equation totally. But is it clear exactly who could step in into the void there and actually create some sort of progress or momentum?
GINSBERG: Leon, you've hit the nail on the head. It's an excellent question. The problem is, is that even the Israelis tell me privately that regrettably there is no one else to negotiate with. He is indeed the elected responsible authority for the Palestinians. If indeed he was somehow -- left the scene, either by illness or by assassination, there would be civil war among the Palestinians because they - he himself has prevented anyone from stepping forward as a number two.
And so it's imperative that the pressure be brought on him and those people around him who after all are his leadership. They have got to come to grips once and for all with what has happened because he is fast becoming the Mullah Omar of the West Bank. He is condoning terrorism and it's important for him to stop this. The Israelis also have got to give the Palestinians some hope that there will be a resumption of negotiations. They after all have been suffering under this occupation. The settlements have been a thorn in the side of a settlement, and it's imperative that they too show some good faith, but frankly, Leon, after these attacks over the last few days, where scores of Israeli youngsters were killed, I find it hard to believe that there's a great deal of magnanimity among Israelis these days. They have lost confidence in Mr. Arafat's leadership and it's imperative that our friends, the Europeans, as well as the Arab friends of the United States force him once and for all to avoid a catastrophe.
HARRIS: OK, before we leave here I want to spend some time, at least on Ariel Sharon. We've talked so much about Yasser Arafat in the past few hours on all of this. What about the situation that he finds himself in right now politically. I know he's got some of those on the right of his coalition government right now who are trying to force him into almost pushing this to a level where they actually have the shooting war going on. What do you make of the situation that he is in and how much room would he actually have to move around in?
GINSBERG: He's got a very difficult time. Politically he doesn't even have control over his own internal Likud faction. The Israeli people look to him as a person who will restore security, as well as resumption of negotiations. I suspect that they are demanding at this point and time some vengeance against the Palestinian authority. There's enormous pressure on him. Indeed, it looked like yesterday's meeting with President Bush gave him effectively carte blanche to do what is necessary against the Palestinian authority and Islamic Jihad and Hamas because until the Israeli public has confidence in his leadership to restore security, his area of maneuverability is limiting also.
HARRIS: Yes. Final -- by the end of this week, are we closer or further away from peace there - what do you think?
GINSBERG: Well, I think that one should never give up hope. The Palestinians and Israelis are destined ultimately to have to reach an agreement. It's going to take people from outside now to step in and to force a resolution of the conflict on the Palestinians. For 14 months Mr. Arafat had an opportunity to step forward. He's failed to do so. He's failing the test of leadership. It's now up to the Americans and the Europeans, as well as Arab leaders to step forward and to force the issue to a head.
HARRIS: Ambassador Marc Ginsberg, thank you very much, always a pleasure to have you with us. Take care.
GINSBERG: Thank you Leon.
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