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CNN Live At Daybreak

Bin Laden May be Cornered; Bin Laden Tape Draws Mixed Reaction in Arab World; Interview of Mohamed Kamal

Aired December 14, 2001 - 06:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: New signs of Osama bin Laden's possible whereabouts. As we just said, an Eastern Alliance commander has told the Associated Press that his troops have taken a cave in the Tora Bora region after beating back al Qaeda fighters. That commander says the cave was recently occupied by bin Laden. There were few details and the commander didn't explain why or when thought bin Laden had been in the cave.

U.S. warplanes are apparently targeting new areas around Tora Bora this morning as airstrikes intensify against the al Qaeda forces. One Eastern Alliance commander saying that al Qaeda is essentially finished in that area. And while unsure of his specific location, U.S. officials do believe that Osama bin Laden is surrounded, wedged in between two valleys and two military forces. Let's go to CNN's Bob Costantini who's at the Pentagon with the very latest on the situation. Good morning Bob.

BOB COSTANTINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Catherine. Amid heavy fighting, that same Eastern Alliance commander says he believes Osama bin Laden is hiding in a special place. Well a senior U.S. defense official tells CNN that al Qaeda fighters still in the Tora Bora region are -- quote -- "fighting damn hard as though there's something there worth fighting for". And he points to local tribal fighters in the region who believe they have seen Osama bin Laden there as well as unspecified defense information.

And all those factors combined led the U.S. defense official to say the U.S. believes Osama bin Laden remains in Afghanistan in the Tora Bora region and is, as the official put it, effectively surrounded. Now several dozen U.S. Special Forces are on the ground in the Waziran Agam (ph) valley south of Tora Bora searching for bin Laden and calling in airstrikes. At the southern end of the valley, the defense official says Pakistani troops are stationed along the border in case bin Laden or al Qaeda terrorists would try to cross and as that official put it, there are a lot of plugs no matter where you look.

And of course, one of the main objectives of this U.S. military mission, the fight against terrorism is to bring Osama bin Laden to some kind of justice. Catherine.

CALLAWAY: CNN's Bob Costantini at the Pentagon. Thank you, Bob. Well, the videotape of Osama bin Laden discussing the September 11th attacks may be the closest thing to a smoking gun in this case. That tape was played yesterday on networks across the country and overseas. As CNN's James Martone reports, Egyptian reaction on the tape was much different than it was in the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES MARTONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Almost four hours after its release in the U.S., Egypt's state-run television broadcast bits of the bin Laden tape. The U.S. released the tape today saying it showed bin Laden was aware of the September 11th attacks on New York reported the Channel One Washington based correspondent. At this Cairo cafe, men, after the days long Ramadan fast, had already seen the tape on cable TV's Al Jazeera -- they weren't convinced.

"Islam forbids killing innocents," says this man. "The tape doesn't prove anything and don't forget the U.S. supported bin Laden when he was fighting the Soviets," he says.

Men here claim the tape was a U.S. fabrication and questioned the timing of its release.

"This is U.S. propaganda to take attention from the situation in Palestine and attempts to get rid of Arafat," this man alleges.

On Egyptian streets, reactions to the tape are similar to reactions to the U.S.-led strikes in Afghanistan. People say they fear it is a war on Muslims -- that America's only concerned now that it's been hit, but that it does nothing when Muslims are hit in Iraq or Palestine. Earlier in the day, Egypt's newspapers reported on more strikes in Afghanistan and continued Israeli attacks in the West Bank in Gaza.

"What Sharon is doing is terrorism," said this man. But what is the U.S. doing about that?"

And other readers asked why, when Israelis are killed, does the U.S. react, but when Palestinians under occupation are bombed and killed no one says anything. The Arab League states, most of whom publicly support the U.S.-led war on terror, announced Thursday urgent consultations to halt what they term the terrorist acts of Israel against Palestine.

James Martone, CNN, Cairo.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CALLAWAY: Joining us with some insight into the Egyptian reaction is Mohamed Kamal. He's a political science professor at the University of Cairo. Thanks for being with us this morning.

MOHAMED KAMAL, UNIVERSITY OF CAIRO: Thank you.

CALLAWAY: First of all, do you believe that James Martone's report is a fair representation of how most Egyptians feel about this tape -- that it is -- that it's not accurate, that it's false, that there are other reasons for this tape being made?

KAMAL: First of all, let me say that many Arabs and Muslims, don't think that bin Laden or Taliban represents to Islam or their vision of Islam. However, many Arabs and Muslims also had doubts that bin Laden was involved in these attacks, mainly because of the sophistication of the planning and the implementation of these attacks, and they were saying that, show us some evidence -- we need some evidence from the U.S. that bin Laden was involved.

And the answer from Washington was that, you know, we're going to show evidence to the governments, but we can't show evidence to the people because we want to protect our sources. So, I think the release of the tape is a good development, and it provides a good case that he is involved in these attacks. So, I would say it's good development for the U.S. in its campaign to win the hearts and minds of the Arab people. It's also good development, good news for Arab governments that support the U.S. and knew that their public opinion is not really very supportive of the U.S.

And also good news for Arab moderates who believe that bin Laden had some kind of involvement in the attacks, but they didn't have any evidence. So the tapes, I think, is a good evidence that showed that bin Laden was involved in these attacks.

CALLAWAY: Mr. Kamal, what do you think is the most incriminating statement that bin Laden made on that tape?

KAMAL: I think when he talked about the planning of that attack and how the people who are involved in these attacks -- they didn't really know about their mission. And when he talked about the calculation of the people who are going to die and that the volume of death was much more than what he expected and also when he talked about the destruction of the two towers and, you know, how the iron was melted and so on. I think these are good evidences that he was involved in the planning of these attacks.

CALLAWAY: I would imagine that your opinion is not a popular one among your colleagues there at the University of Cairo. How are they reacting to your -- to the tape?

KAMAL: I think, as I said before, the release of the tape will strengthen the moderate camp in the Arab world who suspected that bin Laden had something to do with it, but I'm sure that many people will continue to doubt the authenticity of the tapes or will argue that the tapes have been doctored, or bin Laden is not that naive to appear on tape and admit his involvement.

But, I would say that this trend will continue to exist. There is deep-rooted suspicion of the -- of the U.S. in the Middle East in this part of the world, and I think the U.S. needs to do more in terms of its public diplomacy; in terms of people to people dialogue. You don't need to just, or you don't have just to talk to the government -- the American government needs to talk to the Arab people and you know have more exchange of visits and dialogue among scholars and intellectuals, and talking about dialogue of civilization instead of talking about clash of civilizations. CALLAWAY: Indeed. All right, Mohamed Kamal, he's a political science professor at the University of Cairo. Thank you for joining us and your insights and this morning.

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