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CNN Live At Daybreak
Marines Helping in Tora Bora; Pakistan Braces for Flood of al Qaeda; Hamas to Reduce Attacks; Interview of Dore Gold
Aired December 21, 2001 - 06:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: But now let's get the latest on the deployment of Marines to the caves of Eastern Afghanistan. Let's go to CNN's Bob Costantini who is standing by at the Pentagon for us this morning. Bob, what do you have?
BOB COSTANTINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Catherine there's been no official announcement, but sources are telling CNN as many as 500 Marines could be joining the searching in the rugged mountains as early as this weekend. They would be helping with the tedious and possibly dangerous work of going cave-to-cave to check for any remaining al Qaeda fighters and large caches of ammunition, plus any signs of Osama bin Laden.
Some of the local anti-Taliban soldiers on whom the U.S. was counting are reportedly returning to their homes rather than keep up the searches, which are already being aided by American Special Forces. A spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition is praising Pakistani troops for maintaining vigilance at the border with Afghanistan catching fleeing al Qaeda and Taliban soldiers.
Pakistan is said to have rounded up hundreds and the U.S. now has a total of 23 detainees in custody, most of them at the Marine camp at the Kandahar airport. However, three more have been taken to the USS Pelelieu, a ship in the Arabian Sea. The American John Walker is being held in the assault vessel, but also two men officials here are calling top Taliban leaders.
And all of the detainees are being interrogated by CIA and FBI agents. And meanwhile CNN's Frank Buckley aboard the USS John Stennis is reporting that several of the planes on that aircraft carrier engaged in bombing runs today and targeting unspecified targets in eastern Afghanistan and returning safely to the ship, and also putting an end to what apparently was a three-day halt in the U.S. airstrikes -- Catherine.
CALLAWAY: All right, thank you Bob. CNN's Bob Costantini at the Pentagon.
Well the rounding up of al Qaeda forces is going on along the Pakistani border and we're going to take you now 4800 feet above sea level, high on the peaks of the White Mountains, which is on the Pakistani side of the border with Afghanistan where -- that's where we can find CNN's Kamal Hyder. He's joining us via videophone with the very latest on the rounding up of the fighters there. What's the latest Kamal?
KAMAL HYDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Catherine, the authorities here have been very successful in rounding up almost 193 people in the last 10 days. We have reports now that yesterday one of the Pakistani law enforcement agency people was killed in a gun battle with suspected al Qaeda members and two al Qaeda members were also killed in that gun battle yesterday.
You can see behind me the highest point of the Spin (ph) mountain range. That is Sikh Aram (ph), sitting at almost 5,000 meters above sea level and you'll see the forward posts of the Pakistan army -- Pakistan army. Combing operations have been going on and there is a heightened state of alert -- as one officer put it to me by saying that we are at this moment on a war footing -- Catherine.
CALLAWAY: Kamal, can you turn behind you and tell us what exactly is going on behind you and who is actually involved in the rounding up of the al Qaeda forces in this area?
HYDER: These people sitting behind me, they are from the regular Pakistan army. It must be remembered that the Pakistan army had not been in this area -- in the tribal area since independence because these were federally administered tribal area. But because of such suspected terrorists trying to cross over from Afghanistan, a lead unit of the Pakistan army has for the first time been placed on the border and are now beginning to show results, sending a signal to the al Qaeda people and the terrorists that this would be a bad choice if they tried to come into Pakistan.
CALLAWAY: Kamal, it would have to be a difficult area to patrol. How difficult was it for you to get to the area where you are now?
HYDER: We're sitting here at about a little over 10,000 feet. Some of these men were dropped on -- over 12,000 feet by choppers. The infantry men are trying to cover all the ravines, all the secret routes. This is an operation which is being held by the levies (ph), the constabulary, the local population here is also trying to help the army and they are trying to fill all the gaps. It is a difficult task. The army admits that it is a difficult task, and there are strains on the army's budgets when they're on a war footing, but the morale here is very high and most people we spoke to told us that it was Pakistan's duty to the international community to show that Pakistan was with the international community and its war against terror -- Catherine.
CALLAWAY: We're hearing and reading that there may be al Qaeda fighters in the thousands in that region. Are you hearing that there? I know you said that more than 100 have been rounded up recently.
HYDER: That was 183, to be precise, that was rounded up. Most of them have been taken for interrogation to the city of Kohad (ph) -- Kohad (ph) itself security heightened out there. There are apprehensions that some of them may have filtered through. Mop-up operations are going on. We were told today that about five are still at large from the people who ran away and that they've apprehended the majority of those people. These five are also hold up, they said, but they do not want anybody to go that area for their own security. They said that they will be rounded up by tonight also -- Catherine.
CALLAWAY: And Kamal can you tell us, certainly the big question is where is Osama bin Laden. Any idea if he could -- his hiding place could be anywhere near the region where you are?
HYDER: Catherine, Pakistan has always been very helpful in the past is anything to go by. Ramzi Yousef and Imel Kansi (ph) were apprehended in Pakistan with the help of the authorities and of course with the great relationship that Pakistan and the United States have enjoyed over the years. At this moment I think Osama bin Laden would not try to venture close to the Pakistani border because logistically it would be easier for the Americans or the Pakistanis if the need arose, to be able to apprehend him. Osama bin Laden would be trying to go into the mountains and away from the frontiers from where he would run the risk of being arrested -- Catherine.
CALLAWAY: All right, that's CNN's Kamal Hyder on the White Mountains in Pakistan. Thank you Kamal.
The latest now on the crisis that's going on in the Middle East -- the militant Islamic group Hamas now saying that it will end mortar and suicide attacks in Israel, but the question is, of course, will Hamas followers submit to the moratorium. Let's go now to CNN's Chris Burns who's in Jerusalem with the very latest -- Chris.
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- and all what they call "martyrdom attacks" in the areas occupied since 1948 -- that being what is today Israel, as well as all mortar attacks -- that indicating all areas in Israel as well as in the territories, the West Bank and Gaza Strip, that distinction not being received very well by the Israelis. However, this does come in the wake of clashes between the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, and especially yesterday when one person was killed when Palestinian Authority police tried to arrest one of the founding members of Hamas, Abdel Aziz Rantizi (ph).
There appears to be an arrangement where Rantizi (ph) is now going to turn himself in. This does appear, also by the Hamas statements, that both sides are now making an effort to try to avoid some kind of civil war within the Palestinians -- among the Palestinians. This is being well received by the Palestinian Authority. Their chief negotiator, Saeb Arafat, says this is a very positive step in the wake of Yasser Arafat's speech last Sunday calling for an end to what he called all terrorist activity -- that the Palestinian Authority would crack down on any militant activity, also calling for an end to suicide attacks.
So this does follow that. Also calling on Israel to stop assassinations, to withdraw from areas within the territories and also to ease closure of some Palestinian towns, and on -- calling on the United States to establish a timeline for the Mitchell Report -- that being not only calling for an end to terrorist activity, but also calling on Israel to stop, at least freeze its construction of Jewish settlements in the territories.
We have with -- joining with us right now Dore Gold who is adviser to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel. Mr. Gold, what is the response by Israel to the statement by Hamas?
DORE GOLD, ADVISER TO PRIME MINISTER ARIEL SHARON: First of all Hamas is a very dangerous international terrorist organization that Israel does not negotiate with over the air waves or behind closed doors. But what's perhaps most disturbing about this announcement is that it says that terrorism is legitimate in certain areas and terrorism will be stopped in other areas.
We have a new international standard in the world. Terrorism is illegitimate wherever it occurs -- whether it's in pre- 1967 Israel or in the disputed West Bank and Gaza Strip areas. Terrorism must be eradicated and Yasser Arafat must live up to his obligation to dismantle the operational capability of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other organizations, which he harbors.
BURNS: But would you not at least welcome the part of the statement that says we will stop attacks within Israel.
GOLD: Well if somebody said to you we're only going to inject you with a half a syringe of poison instead of a whole syringe, you wouldn't get out -- break open a bottle of champagne. This is a very serious problem still. We will not accept; we will not greet any kind of announcement which says killing Israelis here is OK, but killing them there is not OK.
BURNS: However, in the last few days we've seen a lowering of activity -- of militant activity. It does appear that there have been some very, very minor attacks -- minor exchanges of fire in recent days. It does appear that the Palestinian Authority seem -- and Mr. Arafat seem to have an effect in stopping this militant activity. Wouldn't that lead to perhaps a cease-fire and resumption of the peace talks?
GOLD: Well Yasser Arafat has been saying different things to different audiences. In his great speech he spoke about the need for a cease-fire that everybody especially among his supporters were praising. On the other hand, Yasser Arafat was speaking about praising suicide bombers, shuhada (ph), and we heard that speech in Arabic as well. So there's a mixed message to the Palestinians and quite frankly, Yasser Arafat has failed to arrest the most serious wanted terrorists who tomorrow could strap dynamite to themselves and walk into an Israeli city. Those people are still at large and therefore there still is a risk to Israeli security.
BURNS: But the Palestinian Authority is asking for more time to do this and also saying that they need to have some kind of show an incentive to the Palestinian people that there will be eventually peace talks; that there will be perhaps a freezing of the construction of settlements, which was accepted by -- in the Mitchell Report by both the Israelis and the Palestinians. What do you think about that?
GOLD: Well there is an agreed sequence that has been put together by the international community, led by the United States, and also supported by the European Union, and that is the Mitchell Report sequence. That talks about an unconditional cease-fire. Now the meaning of unconditional means it's not attached to some political concession down the road.
BURNS: But it also calls for a freezing of settlements ...
(CROSSTALK)
GOLD: Well down the road there is an understanding about settlement activity as there is also elements that relate to the collection of illegal firearms by the Palestinians. They're now being used against Israeli citizens. So we're hopeful that Arafat will finally get the message, but at the same time he has failed up until to this point to live up to the expectations of his agreements and cease-fire offers.
BURNS: Does this mean Mr. Arafat is relevant again despite what the cabinet decided?
GOLD: Well the cabinet has already gone through eight to nine cease-fires with Yasser Arafat and that has not produced any kind of security for Israelis and therefore Israel has to provide itself with its own security and that's what it's doing today.
BURNS: So does Mr. Arafat remain irrelevant, as far as you're concerned?
GOLD: There has been a cabinet decision Yasser Arafat has been irrelevant in eight cease-fires and he will probably stay irrelevant in the ninth or tenth that may be offered by him.
BURNS: Mr. Gold, thank you very much. Dore Gold, the adviser to Prime Minister Shimon -- I'm sorry Ariel Sharon. The Israelis obviously not satisfied with what Hamas said. However, the Palestinian Authority seeing progress in their crackdown on the militants -- Catherine.
CALLAWAY: CNN's Chris Burns joining us from Jerusalem. Thanks Chris.
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