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CNN Live At Daybreak
Rumsfeld in Baghdad; How Much Should Media Show of Prisoner Abuse Photos?
Aired May 13, 2004 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Our senior international editor, David Clinch, is here to tell us what Donald Rumsfeld said on the plane on the way over to Baghdad this morning.
DAVID CLINCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Right, yes. This is raw as we're getting it, but some of the interesting quotes from Secretary Rumsfeld on the plane on his way into Iraq from the wire reporters are trying to put them in a logical order. But some of the interesting things here, a quote from Rumsfeld on the plane: "If anybody thinks that I'm in Iraq to throw water on a fire, they're wrong. We care about the detainees being treated right. We care about soldiers behaving right. We care about command systems working." That's interesting. Here...
COSTELLO: Yes, what does that mean, "throw water on the fire?"
CLINCH: Well, to basically cover up. I mean, this is the other thing he's denying: "The garbage that you're reading about, cover up and the Pentagon doing something to keep some information from people is unfair, inaccurate and wrong. If I find any evidence that it's true, I'll stop it." Absolutely denying that this visit -- nobody that I know if has been speculating this -- but denying any speculation that this visit is designed to cover up or to somehow cover over...
COSTELLO: It sounds like he's going there to gather information.
CLINCH: Absolutely.
COSTELLO: And he's also bringing Pentagon lawyers with him, which makes that point even more interesting.
CLINCH: Right. We have confirmed that, by the way. Pentagon lawyers are traveling on this trip into Baghdad. We don't know exactly what they're going to be doing. But obviously, it stands to reason that there are very specific legal issues that need to be addressed and answered in real time, and can only be done on the ground in the prisons there.
COSTELLO: And there are political ramifications surrounding this, too, because Donald Rumsfeld is coming out. He's talking tough, and, you know he's a man trying to save his job, right?
CLINCH: Right. And then, again, he's commenting very interestingly on the issue of the images we were talking earlier about, the Congress members seeing the images yesterday that he himself has seen. Should they be released, the ones that are being described as much worse than anything that we've seen?
Quote: "As far as I'm concerned, I'd be happy to release them all to the public and to get it behind us. But at the present time, I don't know anyone in the legal shop in any element of the government that is recommending that."
So, this very interesting thing, he's there in Baghdad today making it clear he wants to get to the bottom of this and get answers, but also making it clear that that's not a cover-up. That is doing what he has said and the Bush administration has said they want to do, which is to get the answers and to find out what exactly what happened.
COSTELLO: And in fairness, they don't want to release the rest of the photos in part because it might interfere with the legal cases they have going on against these soldiers...
CLINCH: Right.
COSTELLO: ... these guards in the Abu Ghraib prison.
CLINCH: It's a split decision. Rumsfeld has said this, we heard the Congress members saying this yesterday -- of two minds was the thing that kept coming up yesterday. Everybody says in a free society, we should be leaning towards releasing these things. Obviously, then that leaves our decision that we've been talking about as well. Would we show what are being described as disgusting, appalling images?
COSTELLO: Oh, we're going to talk about that later.
CLINCH: At this point, everybody has the point. That's what the Bush administration is saying. But also, the issue at this point they don't want to answer the question of further exposing these victims in the public realm to the abuse that they obviously went through.
COSTELLO: David Clinch, thanks for running over there...
CLINCH: OK.
COSTELLO: ... and giving us that news as it came into the CNN newsroom.
CLINCH: All right.
COSTELLO: More money for more war. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz goes before the Senate Armed Services Committee today to ask for another $25 billion for operations this year in Iraq and Afghanistan. It will be the senators' first opportunity to question Wolfowitz about the prisoner abuse scandal.
Also today, U.S. troops killed three militiamen loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr last night in Najaf. In heavy fighting is reported today with al-Sadr's fighters in the city of Karbala. No casualty reports from there yet. Two more U.S. soldiers will be court-martialed for allegedly abusing Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib prison. The charges against Sergeant Javal Davis (ph) and Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick (ph) include assault, maltreating prisoners, conspiracy to maltreat prisoners and dereliction of duty. The attorney for Private Lynndie England, charged earlier in the scandal, says civilian contractors are to blame for the problems.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GIORGIO RA'SHADD, PFC LYNNDIE ENGLAND'S ATTORNEY: I'm saying if the military command structure allows civilians to exclude them from the structure and hijacks it and there's no military person there that is willing to take charge and take responsibility, then a bunch of young kids who are given instructions and encouragement to help facilitate information to protect force structure will probably end up doing some of the things they're instructed if there's no one else to over-watch the civilian intelligence infrastructure.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COSTELLO: And as we've been telling you, several investigations into the abuse scandal are going on right now.
Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison is among those senators who saw the latest pictures and the videos. You'll hear what she has to say about them on "AMERICAN MORNING" with Bill and Soledad. Of course, that comes your way at 7:00 Eastern.
A good story now. Big tears for Thomas Hamill, the American who escaped his Iraqi captors. Hamill threw out the ceremonial first pitch at the Houston Astros baseball game, and he used his wounded arm to do that, and the fans absolutely loved him. In fact, they gave him a standing ovation. Hamill is always quick to put the focus back on Americans in Iraq.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
THOMAS HAMILL, FORMER HOSTAGE IN IRAQ: I want to make sure that my safe return doesn't distract everyone's commitment to continue praying for our troops and the thousands of civilian contractors who risk their lives every day, just like I did, to improve the lives of the Iraqi people.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Hamill was among seven American contractors who disappeared last month. The bodies of four have now been found. Two others remain missing this morning.
Your energy bill may be higher than it should be. Still to come on DAYBREAK, some changes to make around windows and doors that could save you big dollars. This is DAYBREAK for Thursday, May 13.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: Some examples of how we, the media, are handling the Iraqi prison photos and pictures of the beheading of Nick Berg. It's a tough call. How much should we show you? When should we stop showing those pictures to you?
Let's head live to D.C. and syndicated columnist for Scripts Howard and media critic, Martin Shram.
Good morning, Martin.
MARTIN SCHRAM, MEDIA CRITIC: Good morning.
COSTELLO: I cannot tell you how many e-mails we've been getting this morning from our viewers who say we overplay the prisoner abuse photos. In fact, we're accused of making the scandal bigger than it is. What do you think?
SHRAM: Well, I think it's true the pictures have to be shown because they're news, and people must know the consequences of the policies that are going on and just how bad things are. However, network vice presidents need to realize that we're just about at the tipping point, and to show the pictures as wallpaper, as you say in television, day and night, again and again, the same pictures, that's not necessary.
And so, television has done its job. The message has been carried. The images drown out the words it's so powerful.
COSTELLO: So, are you saying that we shouldn't show the pictures anymore? And what if new pictures come out and are made public? Should we show them?
SHRAM: If new pictures come out, you show them, unless, of course, they're so obscene, pornographic. You don't have to show the act of sodomy. I thought that the Nick Berg situation was handled actually very well by Western television networks. Show the videotape and stop it and freeze the frame.
COSTELLO: Well, let's talk a little bit more about that, because I'd like to tell our viewers what will be on the front page of "The Dallas Morning News" this morning. It will be a picture of a terrorist holding up the head of Nick Berg. The head will be digitalized. Here's Keven Willey of "The Dallas Morning News" to explain.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KEVEN WILLEY, "THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS": The headline on the editorial is, "This is the enemy." There is a picture of the alleged al Qaeda terrorist holding up the head. We have blackened out, however, entirely the head, so there is no image of the head. All you see is the terrorist and his arm raised. But it communicates a great power, and it shows the image of what, as you say, everybody is talking about and so many people who have Web access have already seen.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COSTELLO: So, Martin, Ms. Willey says it's important for American to see this reality. Is it?
SHRAM: Well, I think they found the line, and they've walked up right to it and haven't gone over it. Yes, if you want to know the nature of the enemy, show that still photo. And understand this: a still photo is far more powerful than even a moving picture, because a still photo is an icon. It's emblazoned forever in our brains. And in this case, black out totally any feature of the head. Don't show that head at all. But show the enemy for what the enemy is. I think that's taking it right up to the line. I think that's...
COSTELLO: And it's OK.
SHRAM: That's what I'd do if I were running a network.
COSTELLO: Interestingly enough, when those pictures of Fallujah, when the Americans were being dragged through the streets and their bodies desecrated, we chose to show very little of that. And even the little bit that we showed, I mean, people called in, they e-mailed us to complain. Now, it's sort of turning around, and many Americans who are e-mailing us this morning say we should have shown more of that. How do you decide? And doesn't that make it more difficult for us to decide what to show?
SHRAM: The problem that television networks face even more than print is that you're invited into everyone's living rooms every day. You're a guest in their living room. You're talking to whoever is there, including it could be children. So, you have to be very careful.
The images were shown properly from Fallujah, I believe, and just about right. Pulled back, distanced, but you know that there are bodies up there and it's awful and no one forgets that. We'll never forget the pile of naked bodies, and that's an icon, too.
We've seen icons from the past that we can talk about, but this is the decision that has to be made. Make it sensible. You don't have to show sodomy. Just say that it happened. People get it.
COSTELLO: Well, we have many more difficult decisions in the days to come. Martin Shram, thanks for joining us, live from Washington, D.C., this morning.
SHRAM: Sure.
COSTELLO: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld arrived unannounced this morning in Baghdad. Rumsfeld's mission is not known, but there is speculation he'll be trying to boost troop morale. With him, General Richard Myers, who is, of course the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.
The death toll mounts in Gaza. Ten Palestinians were killed in two helicopter gunship attacks today in the Rafa (ph) refugee camp. In another incident, five Israeli soldiers were killed in an attack on their convoy.
In money news, listen up, students. Alan Greenspan and Bill Rancik (ph), you know the winner of "The Apprentice," will address more than 100 high school students in Chicago today. They'll talk about personal finance and education.
In sports, Smarty Jones is no dummy. The Kentucky Derby winner is the 8-5 favorite for Saturday's second leg of the Triple Crown, the Preakness Stakes in Baltimore.
In culture, Cannes rolls out the red carpet for its prestigious film festival in the south of France. Forty-six world premieres are being showcased.
(WEATHER BREAK)
COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you.
Let's head live to New York to check in with Bill and Soledad.
You're going to have General Shepperd. I'll be interested to hear what he has to say about Donald Rumsfeld's surprise visit to Baghdad.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: It certainly will, Carol. We'll talk to him about that. Also, he's been looking at interrogation techniques and what's legal, what's not, and what he has learned right now about what's happening overseas.
Also, as you mentioned, Secretary Rumsfeld is in Baghdad. How long will he stay? A lot of those details and information are kept private from us at this point.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And, of course we're talking more about the prison photos, the alleged abuse. Some members of Congress had an opportunity to check out those pictures. The big question now: Will they be made public? If they are, when? This morning we talk with Senator Edward Kennedy about that, and also Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison.
HEMMER: Also, on election 2004, questions today from Democratic circles, Carol, as to why John Kerry cannot seem to gain momentum in the polling we've done and in the research we've done. Jeff Greenfield looks into that. And Carlos Watson looks into -- it's not too early for this now -- the veep stakes for John Kerry.
So, we'll get to all of that as well.
O'BRIEN: We've got an interesting theory there of who he could pick, whether it's regional support, whether it's just what he calls the hail Mary pass of who he picks, you know or just what he calls the comfort zone as well.
COSTELLO: Well, you know, a lot of Democrats are saying he should have picked someone already. It's like get with it already.
HEMMER: Yes, well...
O'BRIEN: Is that your advice, Carol?
COSTELLO: Yes, for what it's worth.
HEMMER: You've got six months. You've got a VP pick maybe in June. You've got a convention in late July. You've got the Republicans in August. You're going to have debates in September and October. There is a lot of time before the majority of Americans start paying attention to this race.
O'BRIEN: But it's an interesting question of timing.
HEMMER: I agree. I'm with you there.
COSTELLO: Yes, it is. Thank you, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Carol, any time.
COSTELLO: We'll check out you guys later, in 10 minutes. Thank you.
Just ahead on DAYBREAK, you could be paying too much on your electric bill. How making some simple changes around your home could save you money. That's coming up next on DAYBREAK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: And good morning, everybody. At this time, always on Thursday, Dave White from Home Depot joins us to try to fix some things around your house. Today, we're not fixing things. We're kind of maybe keeping your energy bills down just a little bit. I mean, we always think about this in the wintertime, let's caulk the windows because the cold air is coming in, but we don't think about it in the summertime. Let's caulk the windows because the warm air is coming in and the cold air is going out. Right?
DAVE WHITE, THE HOME DEPOT: It sure makes sense, doesn't it? As a matter of fact, if you walk around your house, if you added up all of the gaps and the cracks and the things around the house that let air in and out...
MYERS: Yes.
WHITE: ... it would add up to between a foot and two foot square opening. It's like having a window open all year long.
MYERS: It's like having -- but there are a bunch of different options here. We have a caulk gun, a non-caulk gun, non-gun, and then this great stuff here to start filling in some cracks. And it depends how big your crack is.
WHITE: It really does. I mean, and as a matter of fact, all of this can add up to about a 30 percent addition to your energy bill if you don't take care of it. So, what I would do, literally walk your house. Walk around the outside, walk around the inside, look for any gaps or cracks inside. You can light some incense. If it's a windy day and you can see where the drafts are, and you know how to address it.
MYERS: OK.
WHITE: Probably on the outside is the first thing you want to check, and I know you've done this, is any kind of molding or trim, if you see some gaps or cracks around that, not only would it help your insulation value, but it also will keep insects and water damage from occurring.
MYERS: Sure, around your windows, around your doors, around maybe the little nozzle that comes out of your dryer. You know, all of those places you don't really think about. This is easy. You get a caulk gun, pay three or four bucks.
WHITE: Yes.
MYERS: And you put a tube of caulk.
WHITE: Right.
MYERS: And there's a million different kinds of caulk, though.
WHITE: Yes.
MYERS: That can be confusing. What do you have there?
WHITE: Well, this is actually a latex acrylic, and it's paintable. If you're going to need to paint it, check the label and make sure it's paintable.
MYERS: OK.
WHITE: It's very simple to use.
MYERS: It really is. You pull the handle, you make a bead.
WHITE: Don't overdo it. Make a bead. I'm doing this left- handed.
MYERS: That's all right. And then I just use my finger.
WHITE: That's what I do. You just kind of...
MYERS: Put it on there and make it all nice and smooth.
WHITE: You just kind of smooth it down, and then let that dry and you can paint over it, and that's going to really help on your insulation.
MYERS: Now, if you don't want to use this gun thing, and you only have one little crack to do, I did see this you brought. It's caulk in a tube, and you just cut the end off, and you do the same kind of thing. You make your same kind of bead, but you don't have to get so technical with it. You don't have to have a gun. You don't have to think, oh, my gosh, I can't do this. This is an easy, easy thing.
WHITE: Yes, and you want to have some paper towels here.
MYERS: Oh, very good. Now, we've got to get the big stuff here.
WHITE: Oh, yes. This is great.
MYERS: So, let's say you have a bigger hole, pipes are going in your house, water pipes, gas pipes, whatever it might be, this great stuff fills holes.
WHITE: It really is great stuff, so now I know how they got the name.
MYERS: Yes.
WHITE: You really -- this is neat, because it's a foam insulation, and it expands to fill different kinds of gaps and cracks, like if you're going to do your dryer vents outside, you've got some odd-shaped areas.
MYERS: Sure, absolutely.
WHITE: It will expand. It forms a water-tight insulation seal.
MYERS: It expands a lot sometimes, though.
WHITE: Yes. So, one way -- I know you just bought some new windows, as a matter of fact.
MYERS: Yes.
WHITE: If you're going to replace trim and so forth around the windows, generally you'll find that the rough opening or the area around the window might not have any insulation, and that's the place you really need it. So, that's a good place to use this. You want to make sure you have eye protection.
MYERS: Hold on. I feel like Bob Vila (ph). I've got to put my glasses on now. All right, go.
WHITE: And usually you want to wear gloves with this as well, but you just very carefully...
MYERS: Here it comes.
WHITE: You can hear it coming out.
MYERS: Now, there are now a number of different kinds of this product, and before there was not. But the one that it used to be was sprayed in there, and it's going to get to be about the size of your head if it's a golf ball. Now, there are some that aren't -- they don't grow quite as big. This is the one here that grows a bunch. You put this in here, and it's going -- you put that in there and by -- I don't know. Give it another 20 minutes. Literally it's going to be this big. It's going to be as big as a bowling ball.
WHITE: Yes.
MYERS: So, look at your small gap filler, large gap filler, or just window filler.
WHITE: And you can see how it does. It actually will go in, you put in about half as much as you need, it expands.
MYERS: Yes.
WHITE: And it really creates a nice seal. Now, if you overdo it, you can just let it cure.
MYERS: Right.
WHITE: And you can take a utility knife or a saw.
MYERS: You can.
WHITE: And you can actually just cut the excess off.
MYERS: You saw it right off. It actually works really well. I've done that with other windows on the outside as well. A little bit of foam tape as well. You can do this, it's really very easy stuff. Or maybe even these little guys that you put inside your electrical box.
WHITE: Yes.
MYERS: Take the cover off and put those in.
WHITE: That's an areas where you tend to get a lot of draft, and people don't think about that.
MYERS: Yes.
WHITE: And you can actually buy these little insulation pieces that are made to fit.
MYERS: Yes.
WHITE: It's very, very simple and very cheap, and it will help.
MYERS: They don't look like they do much, but they do. They do stop the wind.
WHITE: They actually do.
MYERS: Carol, I'm sure you'll get right on this, this afternoon.
COSTELLO: Oh, I'm going to take that caulking gun and go home right now.
MYERS: Really?
COSTELLO: I'm not even going to finish the rest of the show.
WHITE: I'd go. Go now.
COSTELLO: Thank you, guys.
MYERS: You bet.
COSTELLO: We'll do today's mug winner and mug question ahead, but first the latest headlines for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MYERS: She'll probably tell me how to do airport delays. We're going to do them.
COSTELLO: Well, you know, I always like to give Chad advice. And he always appreciates it. It's amazing.
MYERS: Exactly. We don't have any airport delays right now, but we will get some of the planes later today. So, keep that in mind if you're flying. East Coast looks pretty good.
Anyway, coffee winner from yesterday, the coffee mug winner. Sony has reduced the price of a PlayStation. What is the new price? $149.
What major event was taking place the last time the cicadas visited? It's not a rock group, although they can be as loud as a rock group.
And the winner from Cornwall on the Hudson, New York, Michael Falvella.
COSTELLO: Falvella.
MYERS: You can say that.
COSTELLO: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
MYERS: Yes, exactly. And now your chance to win. Don't answer those questions. Those are the ones we already answered.
Here are the ones that we want you to answer for today.
Former Iraq hostage Thomas Hamill threw out the first pitch at a baseball game Wednesday night. Who was playing, both teams?
And air leakage around windows and doors can increase your home's energy bills by what percentage? Dave White just gave us that answer.
COSTELLO: And if you answer both of those questions, you will win a beautiful DAYBREAK mug.
MYERS: You will win a lovely -- hold on. There you go.
COSTELLO: Daybreak@CNN.com, Daybreak@CNN.com. And, you know, I didn't say both teams. Thomas Hamill threw out the first pitch at a game.
MYERS: OK.
COSTELLO: But I didn't say the other team.
MYERS: Well, who was the other team? Who was the away team?
COSTELLO: I don't know. I don't even know that. But I only said the team he was throwing out the first pitch to.
MYERS: All right, fine. What was the home team?
COSTELLO: Just in the interest of being fair.
MYERS: Well, they can look it up.
COSTELLO: I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers. "AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now.
MYERS: See you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired May 13, 2004 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Our senior international editor, David Clinch, is here to tell us what Donald Rumsfeld said on the plane on the way over to Baghdad this morning.
DAVID CLINCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Right, yes. This is raw as we're getting it, but some of the interesting quotes from Secretary Rumsfeld on the plane on his way into Iraq from the wire reporters are trying to put them in a logical order. But some of the interesting things here, a quote from Rumsfeld on the plane: "If anybody thinks that I'm in Iraq to throw water on a fire, they're wrong. We care about the detainees being treated right. We care about soldiers behaving right. We care about command systems working." That's interesting. Here...
COSTELLO: Yes, what does that mean, "throw water on the fire?"
CLINCH: Well, to basically cover up. I mean, this is the other thing he's denying: "The garbage that you're reading about, cover up and the Pentagon doing something to keep some information from people is unfair, inaccurate and wrong. If I find any evidence that it's true, I'll stop it." Absolutely denying that this visit -- nobody that I know if has been speculating this -- but denying any speculation that this visit is designed to cover up or to somehow cover over...
COSTELLO: It sounds like he's going there to gather information.
CLINCH: Absolutely.
COSTELLO: And he's also bringing Pentagon lawyers with him, which makes that point even more interesting.
CLINCH: Right. We have confirmed that, by the way. Pentagon lawyers are traveling on this trip into Baghdad. We don't know exactly what they're going to be doing. But obviously, it stands to reason that there are very specific legal issues that need to be addressed and answered in real time, and can only be done on the ground in the prisons there.
COSTELLO: And there are political ramifications surrounding this, too, because Donald Rumsfeld is coming out. He's talking tough, and, you know he's a man trying to save his job, right?
CLINCH: Right. And then, again, he's commenting very interestingly on the issue of the images we were talking earlier about, the Congress members seeing the images yesterday that he himself has seen. Should they be released, the ones that are being described as much worse than anything that we've seen?
Quote: "As far as I'm concerned, I'd be happy to release them all to the public and to get it behind us. But at the present time, I don't know anyone in the legal shop in any element of the government that is recommending that."
So, this very interesting thing, he's there in Baghdad today making it clear he wants to get to the bottom of this and get answers, but also making it clear that that's not a cover-up. That is doing what he has said and the Bush administration has said they want to do, which is to get the answers and to find out what exactly what happened.
COSTELLO: And in fairness, they don't want to release the rest of the photos in part because it might interfere with the legal cases they have going on against these soldiers...
CLINCH: Right.
COSTELLO: ... these guards in the Abu Ghraib prison.
CLINCH: It's a split decision. Rumsfeld has said this, we heard the Congress members saying this yesterday -- of two minds was the thing that kept coming up yesterday. Everybody says in a free society, we should be leaning towards releasing these things. Obviously, then that leaves our decision that we've been talking about as well. Would we show what are being described as disgusting, appalling images?
COSTELLO: Oh, we're going to talk about that later.
CLINCH: At this point, everybody has the point. That's what the Bush administration is saying. But also, the issue at this point they don't want to answer the question of further exposing these victims in the public realm to the abuse that they obviously went through.
COSTELLO: David Clinch, thanks for running over there...
CLINCH: OK.
COSTELLO: ... and giving us that news as it came into the CNN newsroom.
CLINCH: All right.
COSTELLO: More money for more war. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz goes before the Senate Armed Services Committee today to ask for another $25 billion for operations this year in Iraq and Afghanistan. It will be the senators' first opportunity to question Wolfowitz about the prisoner abuse scandal.
Also today, U.S. troops killed three militiamen loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr last night in Najaf. In heavy fighting is reported today with al-Sadr's fighters in the city of Karbala. No casualty reports from there yet. Two more U.S. soldiers will be court-martialed for allegedly abusing Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib prison. The charges against Sergeant Javal Davis (ph) and Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick (ph) include assault, maltreating prisoners, conspiracy to maltreat prisoners and dereliction of duty. The attorney for Private Lynndie England, charged earlier in the scandal, says civilian contractors are to blame for the problems.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GIORGIO RA'SHADD, PFC LYNNDIE ENGLAND'S ATTORNEY: I'm saying if the military command structure allows civilians to exclude them from the structure and hijacks it and there's no military person there that is willing to take charge and take responsibility, then a bunch of young kids who are given instructions and encouragement to help facilitate information to protect force structure will probably end up doing some of the things they're instructed if there's no one else to over-watch the civilian intelligence infrastructure.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COSTELLO: And as we've been telling you, several investigations into the abuse scandal are going on right now.
Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison is among those senators who saw the latest pictures and the videos. You'll hear what she has to say about them on "AMERICAN MORNING" with Bill and Soledad. Of course, that comes your way at 7:00 Eastern.
A good story now. Big tears for Thomas Hamill, the American who escaped his Iraqi captors. Hamill threw out the ceremonial first pitch at the Houston Astros baseball game, and he used his wounded arm to do that, and the fans absolutely loved him. In fact, they gave him a standing ovation. Hamill is always quick to put the focus back on Americans in Iraq.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
THOMAS HAMILL, FORMER HOSTAGE IN IRAQ: I want to make sure that my safe return doesn't distract everyone's commitment to continue praying for our troops and the thousands of civilian contractors who risk their lives every day, just like I did, to improve the lives of the Iraqi people.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Hamill was among seven American contractors who disappeared last month. The bodies of four have now been found. Two others remain missing this morning.
Your energy bill may be higher than it should be. Still to come on DAYBREAK, some changes to make around windows and doors that could save you big dollars. This is DAYBREAK for Thursday, May 13.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: Some examples of how we, the media, are handling the Iraqi prison photos and pictures of the beheading of Nick Berg. It's a tough call. How much should we show you? When should we stop showing those pictures to you?
Let's head live to D.C. and syndicated columnist for Scripts Howard and media critic, Martin Shram.
Good morning, Martin.
MARTIN SCHRAM, MEDIA CRITIC: Good morning.
COSTELLO: I cannot tell you how many e-mails we've been getting this morning from our viewers who say we overplay the prisoner abuse photos. In fact, we're accused of making the scandal bigger than it is. What do you think?
SHRAM: Well, I think it's true the pictures have to be shown because they're news, and people must know the consequences of the policies that are going on and just how bad things are. However, network vice presidents need to realize that we're just about at the tipping point, and to show the pictures as wallpaper, as you say in television, day and night, again and again, the same pictures, that's not necessary.
And so, television has done its job. The message has been carried. The images drown out the words it's so powerful.
COSTELLO: So, are you saying that we shouldn't show the pictures anymore? And what if new pictures come out and are made public? Should we show them?
SHRAM: If new pictures come out, you show them, unless, of course, they're so obscene, pornographic. You don't have to show the act of sodomy. I thought that the Nick Berg situation was handled actually very well by Western television networks. Show the videotape and stop it and freeze the frame.
COSTELLO: Well, let's talk a little bit more about that, because I'd like to tell our viewers what will be on the front page of "The Dallas Morning News" this morning. It will be a picture of a terrorist holding up the head of Nick Berg. The head will be digitalized. Here's Keven Willey of "The Dallas Morning News" to explain.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KEVEN WILLEY, "THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS": The headline on the editorial is, "This is the enemy." There is a picture of the alleged al Qaeda terrorist holding up the head. We have blackened out, however, entirely the head, so there is no image of the head. All you see is the terrorist and his arm raised. But it communicates a great power, and it shows the image of what, as you say, everybody is talking about and so many people who have Web access have already seen.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COSTELLO: So, Martin, Ms. Willey says it's important for American to see this reality. Is it?
SHRAM: Well, I think they found the line, and they've walked up right to it and haven't gone over it. Yes, if you want to know the nature of the enemy, show that still photo. And understand this: a still photo is far more powerful than even a moving picture, because a still photo is an icon. It's emblazoned forever in our brains. And in this case, black out totally any feature of the head. Don't show that head at all. But show the enemy for what the enemy is. I think that's taking it right up to the line. I think that's...
COSTELLO: And it's OK.
SHRAM: That's what I'd do if I were running a network.
COSTELLO: Interestingly enough, when those pictures of Fallujah, when the Americans were being dragged through the streets and their bodies desecrated, we chose to show very little of that. And even the little bit that we showed, I mean, people called in, they e-mailed us to complain. Now, it's sort of turning around, and many Americans who are e-mailing us this morning say we should have shown more of that. How do you decide? And doesn't that make it more difficult for us to decide what to show?
SHRAM: The problem that television networks face even more than print is that you're invited into everyone's living rooms every day. You're a guest in their living room. You're talking to whoever is there, including it could be children. So, you have to be very careful.
The images were shown properly from Fallujah, I believe, and just about right. Pulled back, distanced, but you know that there are bodies up there and it's awful and no one forgets that. We'll never forget the pile of naked bodies, and that's an icon, too.
We've seen icons from the past that we can talk about, but this is the decision that has to be made. Make it sensible. You don't have to show sodomy. Just say that it happened. People get it.
COSTELLO: Well, we have many more difficult decisions in the days to come. Martin Shram, thanks for joining us, live from Washington, D.C., this morning.
SHRAM: Sure.
COSTELLO: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld arrived unannounced this morning in Baghdad. Rumsfeld's mission is not known, but there is speculation he'll be trying to boost troop morale. With him, General Richard Myers, who is, of course the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.
The death toll mounts in Gaza. Ten Palestinians were killed in two helicopter gunship attacks today in the Rafa (ph) refugee camp. In another incident, five Israeli soldiers were killed in an attack on their convoy.
In money news, listen up, students. Alan Greenspan and Bill Rancik (ph), you know the winner of "The Apprentice," will address more than 100 high school students in Chicago today. They'll talk about personal finance and education.
In sports, Smarty Jones is no dummy. The Kentucky Derby winner is the 8-5 favorite for Saturday's second leg of the Triple Crown, the Preakness Stakes in Baltimore.
In culture, Cannes rolls out the red carpet for its prestigious film festival in the south of France. Forty-six world premieres are being showcased.
(WEATHER BREAK)
COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you.
Let's head live to New York to check in with Bill and Soledad.
You're going to have General Shepperd. I'll be interested to hear what he has to say about Donald Rumsfeld's surprise visit to Baghdad.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: It certainly will, Carol. We'll talk to him about that. Also, he's been looking at interrogation techniques and what's legal, what's not, and what he has learned right now about what's happening overseas.
Also, as you mentioned, Secretary Rumsfeld is in Baghdad. How long will he stay? A lot of those details and information are kept private from us at this point.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And, of course we're talking more about the prison photos, the alleged abuse. Some members of Congress had an opportunity to check out those pictures. The big question now: Will they be made public? If they are, when? This morning we talk with Senator Edward Kennedy about that, and also Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison.
HEMMER: Also, on election 2004, questions today from Democratic circles, Carol, as to why John Kerry cannot seem to gain momentum in the polling we've done and in the research we've done. Jeff Greenfield looks into that. And Carlos Watson looks into -- it's not too early for this now -- the veep stakes for John Kerry.
So, we'll get to all of that as well.
O'BRIEN: We've got an interesting theory there of who he could pick, whether it's regional support, whether it's just what he calls the hail Mary pass of who he picks, you know or just what he calls the comfort zone as well.
COSTELLO: Well, you know, a lot of Democrats are saying he should have picked someone already. It's like get with it already.
HEMMER: Yes, well...
O'BRIEN: Is that your advice, Carol?
COSTELLO: Yes, for what it's worth.
HEMMER: You've got six months. You've got a VP pick maybe in June. You've got a convention in late July. You've got the Republicans in August. You're going to have debates in September and October. There is a lot of time before the majority of Americans start paying attention to this race.
O'BRIEN: But it's an interesting question of timing.
HEMMER: I agree. I'm with you there.
COSTELLO: Yes, it is. Thank you, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Carol, any time.
COSTELLO: We'll check out you guys later, in 10 minutes. Thank you.
Just ahead on DAYBREAK, you could be paying too much on your electric bill. How making some simple changes around your home could save you money. That's coming up next on DAYBREAK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: And good morning, everybody. At this time, always on Thursday, Dave White from Home Depot joins us to try to fix some things around your house. Today, we're not fixing things. We're kind of maybe keeping your energy bills down just a little bit. I mean, we always think about this in the wintertime, let's caulk the windows because the cold air is coming in, but we don't think about it in the summertime. Let's caulk the windows because the warm air is coming in and the cold air is going out. Right?
DAVE WHITE, THE HOME DEPOT: It sure makes sense, doesn't it? As a matter of fact, if you walk around your house, if you added up all of the gaps and the cracks and the things around the house that let air in and out...
MYERS: Yes.
WHITE: ... it would add up to between a foot and two foot square opening. It's like having a window open all year long.
MYERS: It's like having -- but there are a bunch of different options here. We have a caulk gun, a non-caulk gun, non-gun, and then this great stuff here to start filling in some cracks. And it depends how big your crack is.
WHITE: It really does. I mean, and as a matter of fact, all of this can add up to about a 30 percent addition to your energy bill if you don't take care of it. So, what I would do, literally walk your house. Walk around the outside, walk around the inside, look for any gaps or cracks inside. You can light some incense. If it's a windy day and you can see where the drafts are, and you know how to address it.
MYERS: OK.
WHITE: Probably on the outside is the first thing you want to check, and I know you've done this, is any kind of molding or trim, if you see some gaps or cracks around that, not only would it help your insulation value, but it also will keep insects and water damage from occurring.
MYERS: Sure, around your windows, around your doors, around maybe the little nozzle that comes out of your dryer. You know, all of those places you don't really think about. This is easy. You get a caulk gun, pay three or four bucks.
WHITE: Yes.
MYERS: And you put a tube of caulk.
WHITE: Right.
MYERS: And there's a million different kinds of caulk, though.
WHITE: Yes.
MYERS: That can be confusing. What do you have there?
WHITE: Well, this is actually a latex acrylic, and it's paintable. If you're going to need to paint it, check the label and make sure it's paintable.
MYERS: OK.
WHITE: It's very simple to use.
MYERS: It really is. You pull the handle, you make a bead.
WHITE: Don't overdo it. Make a bead. I'm doing this left- handed.
MYERS: That's all right. And then I just use my finger.
WHITE: That's what I do. You just kind of...
MYERS: Put it on there and make it all nice and smooth.
WHITE: You just kind of smooth it down, and then let that dry and you can paint over it, and that's going to really help on your insulation.
MYERS: Now, if you don't want to use this gun thing, and you only have one little crack to do, I did see this you brought. It's caulk in a tube, and you just cut the end off, and you do the same kind of thing. You make your same kind of bead, but you don't have to get so technical with it. You don't have to have a gun. You don't have to think, oh, my gosh, I can't do this. This is an easy, easy thing.
WHITE: Yes, and you want to have some paper towels here.
MYERS: Oh, very good. Now, we've got to get the big stuff here.
WHITE: Oh, yes. This is great.
MYERS: So, let's say you have a bigger hole, pipes are going in your house, water pipes, gas pipes, whatever it might be, this great stuff fills holes.
WHITE: It really is great stuff, so now I know how they got the name.
MYERS: Yes.
WHITE: You really -- this is neat, because it's a foam insulation, and it expands to fill different kinds of gaps and cracks, like if you're going to do your dryer vents outside, you've got some odd-shaped areas.
MYERS: Sure, absolutely.
WHITE: It will expand. It forms a water-tight insulation seal.
MYERS: It expands a lot sometimes, though.
WHITE: Yes. So, one way -- I know you just bought some new windows, as a matter of fact.
MYERS: Yes.
WHITE: If you're going to replace trim and so forth around the windows, generally you'll find that the rough opening or the area around the window might not have any insulation, and that's the place you really need it. So, that's a good place to use this. You want to make sure you have eye protection.
MYERS: Hold on. I feel like Bob Vila (ph). I've got to put my glasses on now. All right, go.
WHITE: And usually you want to wear gloves with this as well, but you just very carefully...
MYERS: Here it comes.
WHITE: You can hear it coming out.
MYERS: Now, there are now a number of different kinds of this product, and before there was not. But the one that it used to be was sprayed in there, and it's going to get to be about the size of your head if it's a golf ball. Now, there are some that aren't -- they don't grow quite as big. This is the one here that grows a bunch. You put this in here, and it's going -- you put that in there and by -- I don't know. Give it another 20 minutes. Literally it's going to be this big. It's going to be as big as a bowling ball.
WHITE: Yes.
MYERS: So, look at your small gap filler, large gap filler, or just window filler.
WHITE: And you can see how it does. It actually will go in, you put in about half as much as you need, it expands.
MYERS: Yes.
WHITE: And it really creates a nice seal. Now, if you overdo it, you can just let it cure.
MYERS: Right.
WHITE: And you can take a utility knife or a saw.
MYERS: You can.
WHITE: And you can actually just cut the excess off.
MYERS: You saw it right off. It actually works really well. I've done that with other windows on the outside as well. A little bit of foam tape as well. You can do this, it's really very easy stuff. Or maybe even these little guys that you put inside your electrical box.
WHITE: Yes.
MYERS: Take the cover off and put those in.
WHITE: That's an areas where you tend to get a lot of draft, and people don't think about that.
MYERS: Yes.
WHITE: And you can actually buy these little insulation pieces that are made to fit.
MYERS: Yes.
WHITE: It's very, very simple and very cheap, and it will help.
MYERS: They don't look like they do much, but they do. They do stop the wind.
WHITE: They actually do.
MYERS: Carol, I'm sure you'll get right on this, this afternoon.
COSTELLO: Oh, I'm going to take that caulking gun and go home right now.
MYERS: Really?
COSTELLO: I'm not even going to finish the rest of the show.
WHITE: I'd go. Go now.
COSTELLO: Thank you, guys.
MYERS: You bet.
COSTELLO: We'll do today's mug winner and mug question ahead, but first the latest headlines for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MYERS: She'll probably tell me how to do airport delays. We're going to do them.
COSTELLO: Well, you know, I always like to give Chad advice. And he always appreciates it. It's amazing.
MYERS: Exactly. We don't have any airport delays right now, but we will get some of the planes later today. So, keep that in mind if you're flying. East Coast looks pretty good.
Anyway, coffee winner from yesterday, the coffee mug winner. Sony has reduced the price of a PlayStation. What is the new price? $149.
What major event was taking place the last time the cicadas visited? It's not a rock group, although they can be as loud as a rock group.
And the winner from Cornwall on the Hudson, New York, Michael Falvella.
COSTELLO: Falvella.
MYERS: You can say that.
COSTELLO: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
MYERS: Yes, exactly. And now your chance to win. Don't answer those questions. Those are the ones we already answered.
Here are the ones that we want you to answer for today.
Former Iraq hostage Thomas Hamill threw out the first pitch at a baseball game Wednesday night. Who was playing, both teams?
And air leakage around windows and doors can increase your home's energy bills by what percentage? Dave White just gave us that answer.
COSTELLO: And if you answer both of those questions, you will win a beautiful DAYBREAK mug.
MYERS: You will win a lovely -- hold on. There you go.
COSTELLO: Daybreak@CNN.com, Daybreak@CNN.com. And, you know, I didn't say both teams. Thomas Hamill threw out the first pitch at a game.
MYERS: OK.
COSTELLO: But I didn't say the other team.
MYERS: Well, who was the other team? Who was the away team?
COSTELLO: I don't know. I don't even know that. But I only said the team he was throwing out the first pitch to.
MYERS: All right, fine. What was the home team?
COSTELLO: Just in the interest of being fair.
MYERS: Well, they can look it up.
COSTELLO: I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers. "AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now.
MYERS: See you.
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