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CNN Live At Daybreak

Attack Investigation; Dangerous Heat; Stopping Terrorists

Aired July 25, 2005 - 06:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: From the Time Warner Center in New York, this is DAYBREAK with Carol Costello and Chad Myers.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you. Thank you for waking up with us.

Coming up this half-hour, privacy or protection? That is the debate over surveillance cameras. We'll look at whether eyes in the sky are an important weapon in the war on terror.

Also, Discovery is ready for a second try. The shuttle countdown continues despite possible problems. We'll have a live report for you.

But first, "Now in the News."

A move forward this morning on nuclear talks with North Korea with face-to-face discussions in Beijing. Representatives from the United States and North Korea met just a couple of hours ago ahead of more official multinational talks.

Protesters have gathered outside the Philippine congress. Riot police are there as well. President Gloria Arroyo is addressing congress. Opposition leaders in the lower house of congress want here impeached. They say she rigged last year's election.

CNN has learned that Egyptian investigators are looking for several Pakistani nationals, but it's unknown whether they were involved in the weekend bombings in Sharm el-Sheikh. At least 100 arrests have been made in connection with those attacks.

To the forecast center and Chad.

Is the sun up in Miami yet?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It is, but the camera's pointed in the wrong direction. It's pointed west. So you've got to spin it around there. We'll get them to do that.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Thank you, Chad.

MYERS: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: Now to the London terror investigation. A whitewater rafting trip may provide some important details for Scotland Yard. That while police hold three people in connection with last week's failed attacks.

CNN's Mallika Kapur joins us with the latest from London.

Good morning, Carol.

That whitewater rafting trip you just talked about has taken the investigation on to northern Wales, which is where the whitewater rafting center is located. Over the weekend, British media have splashed photographs of two of the bombers associated with the July 7 attacks in London. They have shown pictures of two of them enjoying themselves at the whitewater rafting center on June the 4th.

There have also been media reports suggesting that two of the would-be bombers associated with the July 21 botched bombings in London also attended the whitewater rafting center on the same day. But police have not been able to confirm that as of now. Many reports suggesting that if the bombers and the would-be bombers had met over there on the same day it could have been somewhat of a bonding exercise for these people.

Officials at the whitewater rafting center have confirmed that two of the July 7 bombers did, in fact, attend the whitewater rafting center on June 4, but they said when these -- the bombers attended, they were sent -- they appeared very normal, appeared to be having a good time, and there was absolutely nothing suspicious about their behavior. But this could give the police authorities here in Britain a fairly crucial lead -- Carol.

COSTELLO: You talk about crucial lead. In what way, though? It's just such a strange connection.

KAPUR: It is a strange connection. But all throughout, police have been saying that what they want to figure out is whether the bombers of July 7 and the would-be bombers of July 21, whether they have any link at all.

Are they part of the same terrorist group, or are they different groups altogether? They want to know who these people are, which group they belong to. There had been claims made by a group calling themselves the European Wing of al Qaeda, but so far the police haven't been able to prove that this group even exists in the first place, let alone find the link between the two groups responsible for both the attacks in London.

COSTELLO: Yes. I just wanted to point this picture out for our viewers once again. The alleged bombers -- this guy giving the peace sign. And then this man in front looking like he's having a great time. And then just a short time later they were on those London trains, according to police, and became suicide bombers. So I'm sure much more will be coming out about this in the hours and days to come.

A blistering heat wave is causing all sorts of problems in the Midwest. A heat advisory remains in effect through today in Iowa. At least three people were taken to the hospital for heat-related health problems. High demand for air conditioning left thousands of customers without power near St. Louis. The 103-degree temperatures there were the highest of the year.

In Chicago, they've now opened cooling centers to help people beat the heat, but the fire department says it appears the heat may have already caused three deaths. In fact, Chicago put its emergency response plan into action. Thousands of older residents got automated phone calls to warn them about the heat.

For more on how they're coping with the excessive heat, we're joined by CNN's Chris Lawrence. He's in Chicago.

Good morning, Chris.

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey. Good morning, Carol.

Already it's -- I mean, it's 5:30 in the morning here, and it's already 85 degrees here. So that gives you an idea of just how hot it's been over the past couple days.

There's three deaths. What happens is the fire department says that there appears to be three people who have died due to the heat.

The medical examiner's office has not confirmed that yet as of last night. But that's not unusual. When you're talking about heat- related deaths, it sometimes can take up to a couple days to really confirmed what happened. And a doctor for the city of Chicago told us just yesterday that it does take a couple days before they can get into a lot of the apartments, check on people, and actually find out what exactly they died from.

But with all that said, you know, this was just a really tough weekend for a lot of folks in Chicago, especially older, elderly, people who live alone. Those are the people most at risk. And that's why the city of Chicago has been calling them for the past few days.

They've been going out to their apartments and their homes, knocking on their doors, checking on them, making sure that they're in air conditioning or they have a way to keep cool, and that they don't -- they'll actually take them to one of these cooling centers, which is just basically an air conditioned building where they're passing out juice and water. Just something to get them through a couple days, you know, before the temperature starts to go down.

COSTELLO: And -- I'm sorry, Chris.

BURNS: Yes. Go ahead, Carol.

COSTELLO: I was just going to bring Chad in.

Because, Chad, is the temperature going to go down there soon? And then the heat is on its way to Philadelphia and New York.

MYERS: It goes down. Right, it goes down today. And Chris, I want to ask you, because you were there yesterday, on Sunday, this is -- yesterday, this was the biggest heat problem, the highest temperature. The heat index got to 110 in Chicago. Do you think that it was better that it happened on a Saturday? Or would it have been better if it was maybe a weekday when people maybe were at work in air conditioned buildings?

Could you tell?

BURNS: Yes, I thought it might have even been better than it was over the weekend, because the power company said that we set a record yesterday for the most electricity used. And, you know, you think about that.

That's on a Sunday. You know, what would have happened if you're talking about a Monday, today, when you've got every office building in the city of Chicago cranking?

MYERS: Right.

BURNS: You know, you wonder about power outages at that point...

MYERS: Right.

BURNS: ... and, you know, what that would have done to some of the folks at home.

COSTELLO: Interesting. All right, Chris. Thank you.

And thank you, too, Chad.

Still to come on DAYBREAK, it's a question we've been asking all morning. Would more surveillance cameras cut down on terror attacks? Will they really keep you safer? We're going to ask an expert.

And ready for liftoff. Is Tuesday the day for Discovery?

But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Monday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: This news just into CNN this morning. Just at the start of rush hour, a terrible bus crash in east Baltimore.

A Greyhound bus is on its side in the grass on the right shoulder of northbound Interstate 95 near I-895. That's in east Baltimore, as I said.

As you can see, people have been injuries -- injured. We don't know if there are any deaths, and we don't know how this bus accident happened. When we get more information, of course we'll pass it along to you. These images courtesy of WBAL, our affiliate in Baltimore.

On to security matters now. New Jersey transit police begin random searches today of baggage and packages carried by bus and rail passengers. People who say no to the searches will not be allowed to ride. The police can't detain them for solely refusing the search. The inspections are in response to the London bombings.

And, you know, ever since those London bombings there have been calls for more surveillance cameras to keep an eye on us, especially in vulnerable spots like subway stations and terminals. Many big cities already use them. Chicago, for example, has at least 2,000 surveillance cameras.

Law enforcement authorities say the cameras have helped push crime down to the lowest level in 40 years. Baltimore has 150 cameras and crime is down 40 percent. The cameras sometimes help to curb crime, but can they actually stop terrorists?

Here to talk about that is CNN security analyst Clark Kent Ervin.

Good morning, Clark.

CLARK KENT ERVIN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: So let's start with a simple question first. Can they stop terrorists?

ERVIN: Well, it's certainly possible. You know, terrorists are like water in the sense that they seek the past of least resistance. Just knowing that cameras are around makes it marginally harder for them to carry out their deadly work.

COSTELLO: Yes. But wait, Clark. If you're going to blow yourself up, I mean, what do you care if you're on like a surveillance camera?

ERVIN: Well, a couple of things. Not every terrorist is a suicide bomber. The suicide attacks that we saw in London, that was the first time that that had happened in the west.

Secondly, even those who are intending to be suicide bombers sometimes fail to be. Perhaps that's what happened in London on July 21.

And the cameras have proved their worth certainly after the fact for those bombers who do survive by helping the police to identify them and help to track them down.

COSTELLO: Yes. You know, I understand after the fact, because you can get those images. But these four London bombers just look like your average guy.

So let's say somebody is actually monitoring all of those cameras pointed at the subway station. You can't tell that those guys are any different from any other guy getting onto a subway train.

ERVIN: Well, it's certainly very, very difficult. And we certainly can't prevent every single attack. There's not question about that.

But it seems to me that we need to do whatever we can do that might make us marginally safer. And there are also things called smart cameras that can detect packages that are left unexamined. That could be very helpful indeed. And that's being tried around the country.

And also, just the presence of cameras can serve to reassure the public that the authorities are vigilant, that they're on the job, on the lookout for terrorists. So it seems to me that there are four ways in which they could be helpful.

COSTELLO: Well, the other things is -- and I have a quote here that I want to show people, and it's pretty prescient, because let's say -- let's say that the terrorists pick a movie theater to strike and you have all your cameras pointed at the subway station -- and I'm going to read it verbatim now. "Let's say we put cameras on all the subways in New York City and the terrorists bomb movie theaters instead. Then it's a total waste of money."

Isn't that right?

ERVIN: Well, it's not a waste of money because we know that terrorists are very, very interested in attacking our mass transit system because of the number of people who use it on a daily basis. It's about 33 million people.

An attack timed the right way could kill thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people. So they want to have spectacular attacks, and if they succeed in doing it at just the right time, this could have a spectacular effect.

Also, regarding cameras in movie theaters and shopping malls, we need to remember that, as you say, there are cameras right now in grocery stores, in banks, in shopping malls. And we've internalized that. And as you noted at the top of the piece, this has served to deter crime. If it can deter crime, it can deter terrorism, at least to some degree.

We can never reduce to zero the possibility of a terrorist attack. But as I say, anything that makes it marginally harder before the fact, anything that helps the authorities to identify any bombers that survive after the fact, are steps that we should take.

COSTELLO: Clark Kent Ervin. Thanks so much for joining DAYBREAK this morning. We appreciate it.

ERVIN: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

The company that makes stun guns is taking aim at you. Taser International is launching an ad campaign to boost sales of the police weapon. Now they want you to own one of your very own.

The first city to see the ads Miami. Tasers are legal in Florida, but that's not stopping people from being outraged about this. Police and human rights groups fear the stun guns will end up in the wrong hands since background checks are not required. The cost to own one? Oh my goodness. Four hundred dollars to $1,000.

That even stunned me.

Your news, money, weather and sports. It's 6:45 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.

It doesn't happen often. U.S. and North Korean officials held a rare one-on-one meeting in China today. North Korea is returning to six-nation talks on its nuclear program after 13 months of stalling.

In money news, it might make you want to switch to Canola oil. Spain says its olive harvest could drop by a third this year because of a severe drought. That means olive oil prices will be climbing.

In culture, the Broadway production of "Chicago" is adding some star power to its cast. Get this: singer Huey Lewis is set to join up in November as Billy Flynn. That's the part Richard Gere played in the movie. And Brooke Shields joins the cast next month for a short stint as Roxy Hart.

In sports, Kurt Busch -- I'm not going to run -- Chad.

MYERS: Here he goes, passing Rusty. See you, bud. I've got 50 more horsepower than you do, but have a nice time following me all the way to the checkered flag.

They did do the green-white checker and actually had a yellow flag on the last lap. But Kurt Busch thrives his way to victory lane again. He's doing very well in points. Mark Martin and Rusty Wallace also did very well in points for the race to the chase.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Thank you, Chad.

That's a look at the latest headlines for you this morning.

They are counting down and crossing their fingers. NASA engineers will give Shuttle Discovery another go, even though they have not ironed out one pesky problem. More on the historic mission after a break.

But first, let's take a look at the international markets this morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. We want to update you now on that Greyhound bus accident in Baltimore, Maryland. And I'm just going to read to you what the WBAL-TV Web site its saying.

This is from WBAL-TV in Baltimore. It says, "A Greyhound bus overturned on wet roads early Monday, trapping two people in the vehicle." The news chopper pilot is Captain Roy Taylor. He's the one taking those pictures.

He said the accident occurred along northbound Interstate 95, just past U.S. Route 40 in east Baltimore. He reported all lanes are blocked, traffic is being rerouted to Route 40.

Two people still inside the bus. One is reportedly unconscious. He said at least 10 people outside of the bus are being treated for various injuries.

The Maryland State Police helicopters have been requested to the scene. And these images from Sky Team 11, which is their helicopter, showed the bus apparently ran off the road, flipped on its die. The sign on the bus indicated that the vehicle was heading to Philadelphia.

Taylor said the area hospitals have been put on notice for a major injury accident. Multiple ambulances have responded to the scene.

And if you want to know more, go to WBAL's Web site, or stay tuned to CNN. We'll get you more details as soon as we get them in.

The return to space is back on, and it's set for tomorrow morning. The planned launch of the Space Shuttle Discovery comes after a pair of delays. One lasted more than two years after the Columbia disaster, and then a fuel sensor problem left the shuttle sitting still for another two weeks.

For a look at tomorrow's mission we're joined by CNN's Sean Callebs from the Kennedy Space Center.

So I bet they're still a little nervous there -- Sean.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I think clearly tension, I don't know, anxiety, nervousness. I think a lot of excitement, too, about the space program getting back on track. And who knows, tomorrow at this time the seven astronauts should be getting ready to get suited up and head into Discovery.

Of course you remember 10 days ago they were actually in the spacecraft when the mission was called off because of a faulty fuel gauge problem. Well, they've had 14 teams of engineers look at this problem over the past 10 days and they still don't know exactly what is causing the concern.

They've replaced a lot of the faulty -- what they believe was faulty electrical wiring inside Discovery in hopes that would solve the fuel gauge problem, but so far they say it is an unexplained anomaly. Still, they are prepared to go ahead with the countdown and the launch tomorrow.

They believe that this is not a kind of problem that could cause any kind of accident. They don't think it's a safety issue.

It came up during April, during another test. And they were using a different tank at the time. Now, basically, this fuel gauge is an engine cutoff gauge. It would stop the engines from burning once all the fuel was used. But the concern is, if there's a problem, it could also shut down the engine too soon. And that could force the orbiter to make an emergency return to Earth, something that has never been done, meaning it wouldn't reach its orbit, Carol.

But still, everybody here says they are ready to go. And even if the same problem crops up tomorrow, they are prepared for the launch -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Sean Callebs reporting live for us this morning.

Of course when the shuttle lifts off Miles O'Brien will be there. He joins us now for more on what "AMERICAN MORNING" will have on the Discovery.

And Miles, you've got to -- if I'm an astronaut, I don't know, I'm a little nervous.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: You're a little nervous about what? If you're an astronaut you'd be nervous?

COSTELLO: No, I'd want them to know for sure what the problem was.

O'BRIEN: Yes. Yes, I think that's pretty safe to say. But they do have a lot of faith in the team.

Of course, you know, two-and-a-half years ago the team let them down. So, yes, I suspect deep down.

Now, will you get them to admit that? No.

COSTELLO: No.

O'BRIEN: No, they won't do that.

Lots of things going on this morning, Carol, on "AMERICAN MORNING."

Soledad live in London as commuters get back to work this morning following last week's bomb attempts and police shootings in an underground station. We'll have the very latest on the investigation, including what police are learning from the man arrested over the weekend.

Also ahead, shuttle launch. We'll talk to Sean Callebs a little bit about it, and you're going to meet a very interesting woman. I don't know if you remember Carol -- Carol, are you still with us?

COSTELLO: Yes, I am.

O'BRIEN: Linda Hamm, do you remember that name? She was one of the top deputies to the shuttle program manager, and she was pretty well vilified in the wake of the Columbia accident. We have an exclusive interview with her, sit down and talk to her.

She was ultimately demoted from her job. And talks about what it's like to lose a job that was really her passion and to take the blame for something that was really much bigger than her.

COSTELLO: Oh, that will be fascinating.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

COSTELLO: All right. We look forward to that. Miles O'Brien. Thank you.

You are watching DAYBREAK for a Monday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: You know, I've missed this cheesy segment. I've been gone for two weeks, I'm back today.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: And now it's time to give away the mug.

MYERS: And everyone is so glad you're back, Carol.

COSTELLO: Oh, I'm glad to be back as well.

MYERS: Welcome back.

COSTELLO: Thank you.

MYERS: Let's give it away. We actually asked these questions a couple days ago, a few days ago, but we haven't been able to get back to them because of breaking news.

How many cases has Supreme Court nominee John Roberts argued before the Supreme Court? That was 39.

And a Category hurricane -- Category 3 hurricane, classified by what wind speed range? That is from 111 to 130 miles per hour, or 96 to 113 knots. And the winner, Pallav Jain from Atlanta, Georgia, our first winter -- winner from Georgia. Good news there.

Congratulations to you.

Now our questions for today, because you still have a chance if you answer them correctly.

In what year was the AFL-CIO formed? That's number one.

And number two, name two cities reported to have seen a decrease in crime with the addition of surveillance cameras.

CNN.com/DAYBREAK. There's a link to give us your answers right there -- Carol.

COSTELLO: A quick look at the travel forecast.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Chad Myers.

"AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now.

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