Return to Transcripts main page

Laura Coates Live

Trump Civil Fraud Trial Continues; Cornell Student Accused Of Threatening To Kill Jewish Students Ordered To Remain In Jail; First Civilians Leave Gaza Through Rafah Crossing Into Egypt; Legendary Coach Bobby Knight Dies At 83; Texts From Army Reservist Released About Maine Shooter. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired November 01, 2023 - 23:00   ET




ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: And thank you for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now. Laura, hi.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: I like the way you said that, Abby. "Laura Coates Live." I like that. Thank you. I'm going to have an italic on that now. Thank you so much. Abby, great show. I'll see you right back here tomorrow, okay?

PHILLIP: Have a good show.

COATES: Thank you.

Well, look, Donald Trump's number one son -- sorry, Eric and Barron -- he took the stand today and he guessed who he is blaming for a fraudulent financial statement. Hint. It's not anybody named Trump. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

So, Donald Trump, Jr. was the opening act today in the Trump family's quarter of a billion-dollar New York courtroom drama. He testified today in that civil fraud case against the foreign president's namesake business, and it went, well, maybe pretty much how you thought it would go.

He testified that he was not involved in the preparation of his father's financial statements at any point in time, and you guessed it, he said, well, blame the accountants. Quote -- "The accountants worked on it, yhat's what we pay them for."

Now, Don Jr. and his brother, Eric, are accused of knowingly participating in a scheme to inflate their father's net worth, to obtain benefits like, you know, better loans or better insurance policy terms, and then deflating it when it was also convenient to do so.

And while her brother was on the stand, the sister, Ivanka Trump, appealed to ruling ordering her to testify in that civil trial. And remember, she's supposed to testify next week, and she's saying, please, no. Eric Trump will have to file later on this week as well. And while the former president has quite a few cases in court right now, this is the one he has been in the room for. Remember where he hasn't appeared. Think E. Jean Carroll. Think other court appearances and other jurisdictions. But this is the one that he's appearing in and is going to be testifying likely as early as Monday.

So why this one? Why is this the one? Remember, he already left New York, relocated to Florida. Why is this the case he wants to appear in? Well, maybe because it hits him exactly where it hurts. Remember, his reputation, his business, they're really intertwined. And in fact, some would say whether the business led to the presidency or the presidency will then fuel the business, chicken and egg might be coming a bit of a story. And here it all is happening in his hometown of New York City.

Joining me now, former Trump attorney Tim Parlatore and litigation attorney A. Scott Bolden. Gentlemen, I'm glad you're here tonight because, look, of all of the -- has a Casablanca theme -- of all the bars in the world --


I won't go into the whole thing right now, but I love the movie. He is focused on that particular courtroom. That's where he wants to be. This is where he has taken the greatest umbrage about being accused of fraud.

But let's just be honest here. First of all, there's already been a summary judgment motion. The judge has already said the documents are fraudulent. Now it's about how expensive it's going to be for him. When you look at this case, you've been his attorney in counsel in the past, why do you think this is the case that's so important to him?

TIM PARLATORE, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, this is a case that really goes into how he built his entire reputation. I mean, you know, he came up, you know, from the beginning in real estate in New York, and all of that, you know, leading up to the presidency, this puts all of that, you know, into question.


PARLATORE: And I think that that's why, yeah, this is something that's so important to him, because it's -- you know, presidency for him, that was four years of his life. This is decades. And it is -- you know, it is what, you know, people know Donald Trump as.

COATES: I mean, POTUS was once on a seal for him, but Trump has been on the planes, on the buildings.


COATES: That's the name. But the fact that his kids are going to be testifying now, Don Jr., say, for an hour and a half testifying --

A. SCOTT BOLDEN, LITIGATION ATTORNEY: Yeah. COATES: You have Eric Trump, likely Ivanka Trump as well, likely Trump at some point as well, and all this. The fact that they're testifying and a man like him who is known to be very, very keyed in on loyalty and what is being said, is there going be a conflict in what you actually say?


BOLDEN: Possibly. This is his financial base. That's first thing. And remember that Don Jr. and Eric are defendants in the case.

COATES: Right.

BOLDEN: Ivanka was, uh, got out of the case but they're still trying to get her to testify. The idea that she couldn't testify because she's no longer a citizen of New York doesn't make a lot of sense. U, if you listen --

COATES: You know, on that point, it does not, right? You don't have to be a citizen of the state that's bringing a charge to say, oh, I'm sorry, I don't live there anymore, you can't come. That's an absurd argument.

BOLDEN: Yeah. If you've got information or the court thinks you have information that's relevant, probative, and material, then you're probably going to have to take the stand and raise your hand and take the oath.

COATES: And the arm of the law could extend to her.

BOLDEN: Exactly, whether they serve her in Florida or wherever she is. But based on Don's testimony today, he did not seem to be struggling with any conflict because remember, his testimony is, I didn't look at these documents, I may have signed these financial documents, but I relied heavily on the lawyers and the accountants because they had intimate knowledge. So, he hasn't had to go after his father yet.

I do think that Eric and Don as well as Donald Trump, Sr. are going to have a problem on cross-examination or rather direct examination if the AG starts to ask them about what they know about what Eric did, what Ivanka did, or what their father did. That could put them in a conflict piece but, still, I don't see them invoking the Fifth Amendment because, um, they don't want to draw an adverse interest from this judge who has found that these were fraudulent documents.

And if they start to lie, remember, this is all about credibility with this judge, he's going to decide how much of that $250 million is going to be allocated to each one, even though they could be jointly and severely liable under New York law.

COATES: And remember, when you're talking about adverse inference, we're talking lawyer right now, but everyone remembers, we're talking about in a civil context, unlike the movies, if you plead the Fifth in the civil world, the jury or the fact finder, the time the judge can say, hmm, I'm going to assume that what you didn't want to say is actually going to really make you sound all the more liable and guilty in this issue. So -- BOLDEN: Adverse to their interests.

COATES: Adverse --

BOLDEN: Adverse to their interests.

COATES: Look at this on a Wednesday. Look at us doing this whole thing. Is it Wednesday or Thursday? It's Wednesday? Okay, I lost track of time.

BOLDEN: Test is on Saturday.

COATES: Whatever it is. Tim, let me ask you this, though.


COATES: Um, what he's saying, as Scott has laid out, is that enough to get him off the hook? If he's saying, look, I had these -- I had cash flow numbers, I was handing them off to one person, I didn't know what you were ultimately going to use them for, you asked for numbers, I gave them to you, they ended up in documents and disclosures, that disconnect is too much for me to be held liable. Is that convincing?

PARLATORE: You know, one of the things we have to remember here, it is a civil case.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

PARLATORE: And so, if this was a criminal case, I would say, absolutely, that's something that can be used for reasonable doubt. But in a civil case where you have a much lower burden of proof, preponderance of the evidence, and you also have new or should have known just because you were willfully blind to something, you just signed it without paying attention to it, doesn't mean you can't be held civilly liable for it because you did sign something that ultimately wasn't true.

COATES: That's an important point.

PARLATORE: So, I think that because we're talking about a civil case as opposed to criminal, it is less impactful in that case.

BOLDEN: But I think what's really interesting is what the A.G. has to rebut their denials of plausibility or denials that they had anything or even knowledge of what gap financing is.

COATES: What do they have?

BOLDEN: They -- well, Donald Jr. disputes. He says, I know the definition of gap financing. But what the government has would have to put on other evidence and other testimony from other witnesses who could say, no, Don Jr. was intimately involved in this, nothing happened, Donald Trump, Sr. was intimately involved with this, and Eric certainly ran these properties.

For example, the D.C. property, which is a hotel, which is the Waldorf Astoria now, the D.C. property, Ivanka was intimately involved in those negotiations, and Eric was intimately involved in selling their leasehold interest to the current owners, a group of African-American investors.

COATES: Well, you know, when you look at all of this combined, you think about it, I mean, some people would look at this and say, as a civil matter, and we tend to, as a society, put more emphasis on criminal prosecutions.


COATES: What can end you up in jail? People may take more seriously. And some are calling this a kind of victimless crime. Like, what's the big deal here? Who was hurt in this case? But if you're going to inflate assets and then deflate them, there are tax benefits that are derived, there are taxes not being paid, and then there's some being treated very differently.

Is there anything to the suggestion that this is simply -- you know this well with former client. This is all about a political witch hunt. There's no real victim here. It's just you trying to mess with me.

PARLATORE: It is something that, whether this is a legitimate case or not, the atmosphere surrounding it certainly lend itself to reinforcing that narrative.


COATES: In what way?

PARLATORE: Well, you have an attorney general who campaigned on the idea that she was going to get Trump.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

PARLATORE: She goes ahead and brings this case. You have, you know, the judge who is, quite frankly, really playing into Donald Trump's, you know, game of saying that he is biased. I think that --

COATES: You think he's playing into it?

PARLATORE: I think that the way that he's -- that he's doing certain things like certainly the way he handled that -- the contempt --

COATES: By bringing him on the stand.

PARLATORE: Yeah, by bringing him on the stand, by having him explain, no, I was talking about the person sitting on the other side of you, not this side of you, and saying, well, I find him not credible and I'm going to it anyway.

I think all that, you know, certainly gives fuel to the fire and feeds into that narrative, you know, that it is something that's a political witch hunt. I think that if they were to go back and kind of take all of the other businesses in New York that aren't run by somebody named Donald Trump and see how many other businesses have done the same thing and how many of them have gotten similar treatment, that's also something that they can use, you know, to show that it's biased.

But then again, none of those other businesses did Tish James run for election saying, I'm going to go get them.

COATES: I hear you, but you're also speaking to prosecutorial discretion, right?


COATES: Thinking, well, here -- I've chosen one case to prosecute. Almost like a -- sometimes, I'm making this very reductive. A cop sees a lot of people speed by him or her --


COATES: on the road. And they choose ones they want. Doesn't mean you didn't actually speed. But I want to go beyond on one point on this

PARLATORE: Correct, because, you know, a political prosecution or selective prosecution doesn't necessarily mean that it's not a correct prosecution. Doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't have facts supporting it. It just means that that prosecutorial discretion has been exercised against certain people and not against others.

BOLDEN: Well, maybe they have a get to them, but I think my friend, Tom, is talking more politics than law right now. Let me just say this. If you go out, if you violate a court order, you got to get on the stand so that the judge can make findings of the fact. And he got on the stand, and the judge found him not credible.

I mean, he gave him an order, and then he walked out of the courtroom and violated that order, attacking his law clerk, which is attack on the administration of justice. So --

COATES: Details, details, A. Scott.

BOLDEN: Oh, I'm sorry.

COATES: These are minor details.

BOLDEN: We are officers of the court. You're officer of the court, too, by the way.

COATES: We actually are.

PARLATORE: I prefer the client to let the lawyer do all the talking.


COATES: Yes. Well, good luck with that.

BOLDEN: Right.

COATES: I think, you know, those who will do the talking, though, I'm really focused on Ivanka because she's the one who is saying she's appealing. She does not want to testify. Obviously, her case was dismissed because such limitation had run and she was not included in this litigation. But what is the likelihood that she will not be able or not be allowed or required to testify?

BOLDEN: I think she gets to testify. I think the appeal is going to be denied. This judge is really good at exercising his discretion. Unless he abuses that discretion of the New York law, she's going to testify.

She has got two concerns. One, she doesn't want to invoke the Fifth. Even though she's just a witness, she's not a party anymore. And two, the A.G. probably thinks she has information that's relevant, probative material, to the civil prosecution of her father and her brothers.

And she doesn't want to give damaging testimony against any one of the three. And she probably has it because they're all very close. It's a family-run business. And she probably does have damaging testimony, which is why she's fighting against testifying so much.

COATES: Or she has some information that she does not want to divulge or doesn't think she should have to. But I tell you, this is just one of the cases out there. By the way, on the horizon to look out for, Trump is fighting on the immunity section of the January 6th litigation saying he doesn't want to have to do the trial at all until after the election. So, if you can push a lot of these, it might have an impact in the election.

BOLDEN: They have to be careful because they're under oath and their testimony, depending on how far it goes on cross or even direct, whether their testimony is going to be used against Donald Trump in his criminal proceedings, that's always a possibility --


BOLDEN: -- depending on the level of relevance to this case versus the criminal cases.

COATES: Tim, are you eager to get back to being their attorney right now with all the cases?


Your hand is going up, right? It's a big thing?



BOLDEN: Let me represent you on this one.

(LAUGHTER) PARLATORE: I'm happy I left when I did. Yeah, it was a great experience having been a part of the team. I'm very happy that I made the decision I did when I did. Um --

COATES: How very diplomatic. We'll end it on that. Tim Parlatore, A. Scott Bolden, thank you both so much.

Coming up next, the Cornell student accused of threatening to kill his Jewish peers, he's now behind bars and will likely stay there pending any further prosecution. So, how did the students feel about the threats allegedly coming from one of their own? I'll ask them next.



COATES: Now, as the war in the Middle East really is coming home, how do we and what do we do about the fear that is spreading? Cornell is canceling classes Friday after the arrest of a student, a student, a junior at Cornell, in the wake of threats to kill and injure Jewish students. So, how do campuses respond when threats come from within their own student body?

Joining me now, Sofia Rubinson, managing editor and reporter for "The Cornell Daily Sun." Also here with us is Rabbi Ari Weiss, executive director of Cornell. Hello, thank you so much, both of you, for being here.

Let me begin with you, Sofia, because you were actually at the arraignment today. What was Patrick Day's demeanor like inside the courtroom?

SOFIA RUBINSON, MANAGING EDITOR AND REPORTER, THE CORNELL DAILY SUN: Yeah, thank you for having me. His demeanor, he was very straight- faced throughout the hearing. He was looking down primarily. But yeah, he just -- he said, yes, your honor, to a few questions, and he is now being detained.

COATES: What are students saying today on campus about the fact -- I mean, this is an actual student. There were questions about whether it was somebody coming in. Anyone could have posted or could have access to where the actual posting was.


The fact that it's a Cornell student, what have the students been saying about that?

RUBINSON: Students are extremely disheartened to hear that this is a threat from within our community. The students we spoke to said that campus as a whole felt off and strange today as they're trying to grapple with this news.

COATES: Rabbi Weiss, I mean, thinking about the distrust that must be, you know, fomenting here, we are talking about looking and wondering who was speaking this way. It's a student who believes this, who is threatening in this way. I mean, this could have been and this already was a very ugly attack on the community there. I'm wondering how you were counseling students tonight in the wake of this arrest.

RABBI ARI WEISS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CORNELL HILLEL: So, thank you for having me. I'll just say that, yeah, there's some relief that the person who had made these violent threats was caught and there's really some sense that -- that someone part of the Cornell community made those. There's a lot of sadness.

But I think at some level that these threats arise from nowhere. Over the last three weeks, there has been rising antisemitism around the country on college campuses (INAUDIBLE) Cornell. I think there's something about these threats that are manifested in part of this culture of antisemitism.

But what I tell students is be proud. The response to antisemitism is not to hide Judaism, but it's to stand together, to be proud, to affirm your Jewish identity.

This Friday night, we are going back to 104 West where the kosher dining hall is. And we'll have hundreds of students coming together, finding community together, joining together, affirming our tradition, and just standing tall as Jewish students.

COATES: You know, I was talking to Sofia the other day when this was first happening and there had not been an arrest. No one had been identified, rabbi. And we were learning as well that there were students who were changing their behavior on account of the threats.

They were -- some were not attending classes. Some were not wanting to display or otherwise speak about their heritage or their religion anyway. And some were also now traveling in groups from place to place in a kind of a buddy system to try to cope with what's happening.

Something like this can have a lasting effect on one's feeling of safety. Are you hearing from students, even in light of the arrest, that they still feel some lingering feelings of being unsafe?

WEISS: You know, I think it's going to be a process. As I was saying, I think that there has been a process of and a culture of antisemitism, you know, at Cornell, as in many college campuses. So, I think it will take some time for a corner to be turned. But we've had such a great response from Cornell University Police Department to step up and to say, we are here and we support you.

And we've seen strong statements from the university president, Martha Pollack. Just today, she announced a number of initiatives to fight antisemitism at Cornell through education, which is in line with the work that Cornell Hillel has been doing. We bring educators to campus. We're committed to educating Cornell about antisemitism, about its history, and about ways of fighting antisemitism.

I think at the core is to fight hate with light, with affirmation, with coming together, and to stand strong. It will take weeks, it will take months, but I think we'll be able to turn a corner. COATES: Well, Sofia, I want to know more about what the administration is doing and how -- are they intending to change or have they already changed some policies or procedures to prevent this from happening again? I assume it has to be, on the one hand, broad to capture other hateful speech. On the other hand, very specific and nuanced to address what has just happened.

RUBINSON: Yeah. So, in light of these events, the university announced today that they will be canceling classes on Friday to have a community day, citing that extraordinary stress that students are under. And they're really encouraging students to try to recuperate and try to process the events that have happened recently on our campus. And as the rabbi said, there are increasing initiatives to try to combat antisemitism and other forms of hatred on our campus.

COATES: He mentioned some educational moments as well to be teaching. Is that through a -- do you know if it's through a core curriculum? Is it through an elective? Is it through a part of how to add on to the already existing syllabuses that are -- or syllabi, excuse me, that are happening right now?

RUBINSON: So, the university hasn't released a lot of details yet about exactly what this will look like, but we'll continue to put out details in the coming days, I'm sure.

COATES: When you look at it, and I know you mentioned, rabbi, that they're going to be having the community day and Friday classes are canceled, you know, having students try to process and reflect independently can sometimes be a very difficult task because there's a lot of feelings that are clustering together.


What are you intending to do? Is there some directive or moment that you're hoping to achieve in order to have people reflect as a part of a community?

WEISS: So, I think that that's a place that Cornell Hillel really steps in. I'm one of the rabbis on our team. We have two other rabbis. We have 14 staff members, educators. We have folks who have deep relationships with students. And throughout the last three weeks, including this past week, we've been there for students. We've been there supporting students. We've been there to process with students.

When we heard about the attacks on late Friday afternoon, we were at the Center for Jewish Living and 104 West within minutes to be with students and sit with students and just to show that we are supporting students.

So, this is going to be a continuation of the work that we do. We have those relationships with students. We are there for them. We're there just to listen because I think at the core of pastoral listening and pastoral support is just to listen to people, not to minimize what's happening but to say, we hear you, we hear you, let's talk about it, let's talk about what's important, let's talk about how we can move beyond this. COATES: Sofia, you know, obviously, we're talking a lot about what's happening, specifically at Cornell. The sad reality is that this is happening maybe not to the same extent or in different contexts across campuses all across this country. Are you hearing about this happening at other campuses? Are you hearing from friends that you know as well about what's happening there, too?

RUBINSON: We're definitely hearing from a lot of other peer newspapers, specifically at "The Sun," about some -- not to the same extent that's happening here, but, you know, there was recent event at Columbia University.

And just as a whole -- I mean, when Governor Kathy Hochul spoke at the Center for Jewish Living on Monday, she spoke about how antisemitism is on the rise across college campuses. It's not unique to Cornell. So, this is definitely a trend that we're seeing.

COATES: We're also hearing that Christopher Wray, the FBI director, was speaking about the increase by hundreds of percentage points of incidents of antisemitism, also increases in Islamophobia as well, and thinking about this more broadly.

We heard about the peer newspapers, but Rabbi, are you having coordinated conversations with other pastoral entities at different universities and college settings? Because I would assume that there needs to be some, in some respect, a blueprint or lessons that could be learned, as unfortunate as that sounds.

WEISS: So, we're very fortunate that we're an affiliate of Hillel International and we have -- we're part of a network of hundreds of hillels around the country and around the world. And we're in regular contact with them to learn best practices, to share, and to really support each other.

COATES: Sofia Rubinson, Rabbi Ari Weiss, thank you so much for bringing us the information, and hopefully, things will get better. I appreciate it.

WEISS: Thank you.

RUBINSON: Thank you.

COATES: Look, civilians, they're finally allowed to leave Gaza. But that doesn't mean that everyone is gone. Far from it. Of the trapped, only hundreds have been able to leave. I'll talk with families from Texas who have loved ones who are still stuck there after this.



COATES: Now, I want you to try to imagine what this is like. You are trapped in a war zone. You are surrounded by thousands, literally thousands of people who are just as desperate as you to get out, desperate to escape, to protect their families. We're talking children that are there. You have bombs that are falling from the sky. You've got ground troops that are advancing.

And you get the word from the State Department to head to the border. You know how that word comes down? Some list that's posted daily. That's how you find out if you're going to be able to get out. And mind you, not everyone's name is on that list. And even -- only a few hundred people who've been on that list have even made it through. Can you try to imagine that fear, that desperation? Imagine what that would feel like and what you would try to do.

Well, some Americans did make it out today in the first wave of foreign nationals to be evacuated, like 71-year-old Ramona Okumura, a U.S. citizen, a prosthetics expert who was making prosthetics for Gazan children.


AKEMI HIATT, NIECE OF RAMONA OKUMURA, AMERICAN RELEASED FROM GAZA: We are so happy again that she is one of the five that could leave, but we also hold in our hearts a sorrow of the rest of the people that remain stranded and hope they can be evacuated safely.


COATES: The rest, and we're talking about a huge number of people, and there are still many who are desperately hoping to get out. Now, the Department of State, they would not give details on the extent of the numbers.

Earlier tonight, I spoke with a Texas woman, Haifa Kaoud, whose husband, Hesham, is trapped in Gaza. Now, Hesham traveled to Gaza along with his two brothers and his nephew on September 27, just about a week before the start of the war. Now, they had planned only to spend about two weeks there on vacation. Now, listen to the nightmare of not finding her loved one's name on this all-important list that says you get to leave.


HAIFA KAOUD, HUSBAND STILL TRAPPED IN GAZA: He went there and when he came back from there, he said, did they allow me to get in? And they said, your name is not on the list and just wait till your name is there.


So, just almost an hour ago -- I kept waiting the whole day for the list. They uploaded the list on their website. I checked all names. It has hundreds of names, but it hasn't -- it has two of his brothers, the elder one, but not he and the other brother and the nephew.

COATES: In his talks with you and texting and trying to communicate, is he in danger?

KAOUD: Yes, because the bombing -- you know, it's a small area and there is no safe area there. COATES: I was going to say, Haifa, it's hard -- even when I'm hearing you talk about this, it's hard for me, obviously. I'm a mother as well. I've got a nine-year-old. I've got a 10-year-old. And I'm watching a young girl with you right now. And you and I are talking about how scary it is for your husband. How is your daughter understanding or holding up through all of this? What are you telling her?

KAOUD: She knows now he's stuck there. She thinks about him like in the night. She will ask me every day, when he's coming back, because usually, he goes with her to her bed, he reads a story to her, and then -- always. I'm busy with house things, and he's the one who will take care of her.

COATES: Well, Haifa Kaoud, we will be thinking of you and your family. Thank you so much for joining us this evening. And I'm so sorry that you're forced to search that list, waiting for your loved one to come home. Thank you for joining us tonight.

Joining me now, Dori Roberts, one of the loved ones enduring the agonizing wait for some word. Five of his family members were taken by Hamas. Five. His aunt, who was later found deceased along the Gaza border, her longtime partner, his cousin, and her two little daughters.

Dori, thank you for being here this evening. I mean, we have been watching this, and you have been struggling with watching from afar, thinking about what's happening to your loved ones compared to what your life is like here in the United States. Can you just describe what this has been like for you?

DORI ROBERTS, FOUR FAMILY MEMBERS TAKEN HOSTAGE, ONE KILLED BY HAMAS: Well, first of all, thank you, Laura, for having me on your show. It has been almost three weeks and it has been very, very hard time for me and my family. We've been out there looking for any clues, for any sign of life.

As you mentioned in the intro, my aunt passed away and we buried her next to my mom's grave, a temporary burial. That was the location of when I last saw her, in that funeral, three months ago, by my mom's grave. And it has been really rough time since then. We're really trying to hold our family and our loved ones together. We're trying to find any signs of life.

There's another sixth member of the family. My aunt's previous marriage, adopted son, that he was pronounced kidnapped and then missing and then back to kidnapped. We just don't know what happened to him. His name is a Ravit Cuts (ph). He is 51 years old. He was part of the emergency response team that went to try to defend the community, the kibbutz there.

So, we don't know what happened to him. There is no news. There is a long count of bodies there still need to be identified because of the horrific action of the Hamas terrorists that butchered them and left nothing to identify them. So, either that way or another. We to hope to find some kind of news about him. So, it has been really a hard time for me and my family to deal with that every single day, then going to our funeral, and then coming back. They're holding our kids. You mentioned you have kids. So, do I. And so those little girls are held in captive still with their mom. And then there's their grandma on the way to Gaza Strip in front of their eyes.

And yeah, it's just -- it's horrifying. It's really leading to many sleepless nights and nightmares and the feeling of helplessness, feeling of not knowing what's next or when things going to happen. It's really hard on us all.

COATES: Dori, I mean, on that point, especially -- I mean, just waiting for the information that is not coming. We do see that there have been some releases of hostages.


Only four have been released and one also rescued. Given that, how do you hold on to hope that there will be continued negotiations and, of course, their return?

ROBERTS: I think it's a great question, Laura. It's actually the same way that the people who are waiting to get out of Gaza Strip through the Rafah into Egypt and going back home, they're trying to wait for their name to appear in the list. The same on our side, hoping for the negotiation to lead to somewhere.

And hopefully, sooner than later, we're going to be able to find what happened or any signs of life. Sometimes, we see videos published by the Hamas of the hostages and that gives us some hope that they're held in somewhat good conditions and taking care for their health and needs. But we just don't know their whereabouts.

We are hoping that the other players in the region like Germany, England, France, whoever, Egypt and Jordan, will help to keep the negotiation alive and keep hope for our relatives down in Gaza to come back home to our family and our loved ones.

That's a daily struggle. Sometimes, it's an hour by hour struggle. But we have to keep going. We have to be strong for each other in times like that. And like I said, it's really up to the negotiation teams out there to make progress.

COATES: Dori, when hope is what you have, you just got to cling to it with both hands. Thank you so much for being here with us tonight. I appreciate it.

ROBERTS: Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you for having me.

COATES: One of the most polarizing and perhaps legendary figures in college sports has passed away. We remember Coach Bobby Knight, next.


[23:46:17] COATES: Hall of Fame basketball coach Bobby Knight has died at the age of 83. Now, he won three national championships with Indiana. Former Duke University coach Mike Krzyzewski known as "Coach K" said -- quote, "We lost one of the greatest coaches in the history of basketball today. Clearly, he was one of a kind. Coach Knight recruited me, mentored me, and had a profound impact on my career and in my life."

CNN sports analyst Christine Brennan joins me now. Christine, I can't think of anyone better than you who has interviewed him multiple times, has watched the span of his career, to be here with me on set today, and I appreciate that so much. He was known as very outspoken. He was a controversial figure as well. Also, beloved. Tell me about that attention.

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Yeah, at Indiana, you know, bringing those three national championships in men's basketball and just being an iconic leader. I'm sure there are -- people are very sad today. Those who cheered for the Indiana Hoosiers, Texas Tech. He had an amazing career. Olympic gold medal in '84 at the Olympics. He coached that team. I covered that team. I covered him then.

And so, there are many who just love him. And the players who played for him also, you know, obviously praise him and say that he changed their lives. There's that side.

And the other side is the man who, I could think of five or six things alone that I've read or remembered over the last couple of hours, Laura, that would have been fireable (ph) at any job in the country today and probably even in the last five years.

And that includes him, of course, choking, on tape, choking one of his players in 2000 or '97, then actually grabbing a kid on campus who was kind of going after him in 2000, which led to his firing at Indiana. And in an interview with Connie Chung in 1988 said, if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it. That is what Bobby Knight said about rape.

So, you think about him and he really was a fixture and an icon of a generation that is no longer around. I think many people listening to this might say, thank goodness that he could survive and say these things and do these things, put tampons in players' lockers because they played like a girl, you know, to be critical of them.

All of these things that are egregious that were acceptable in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, that would be, of course, completely unacceptable today, especially, Laura, as we look out for the mental health of athletes, as we've talked about, you and I, Simone Biles and Naomi Osaka and Michael Phelps and all those and, of course, the abuse of athletes, because at his core, Bobby Knight was an abuser of young people as we then saw with him trying to choke -- actually going after one player, choking a player with his hands around his neck.

So, you know, that would not obviously be acceptable in our society today, and I think that, of course, that is absolutely correct, that it should not be acceptable in our society today. COATES: I mean, the characteristic of an abuser of players is one that many would take some umbrage to given -- and they will remember, frankly, the wins. They will remember him as Indiana, as a powerhouse. They will remember all of those things. And look and listen to what you've just said and say --

BRENNAN: How dare you?

COATES: How dare you? Why aren't you not focusing on the things that he did well in his passing?

BRENNAN: Because we're talking about a man who was a public figure who died, and so he is newsworthy in death as he was as he lived his life. He was fired by Indiana. That is a fact. That is a part of his bio, Laura, of course.


As I started out, I, of course, praised him and talked about how much he is loved by his players. I didn't necessarily praise him but, you know, talked about the players who look to him as they shaped him. They shaped every -- he shaped every one of them. They look at them as the man that they are now because of Bobby Knight. That is notable and should be remembered.

But the facts are the facts. And again, I think it's really interesting to look at him in the timeframe that he lived and thrived and was an iconic figure.

I cheered for his teams. That 1975-76 Indiana men's basketball team, it is the last undefeated men's division basketball team to this day. That was an iconic team that a kid like me in Toledo, Ohio could cheer for. Absolutely. My siblings went to IU, they loved Bobby Knight, but they also realized it was time for him to go.

And again, looking at him through the prism and the lens now of 2023, some of these things are incredibly egregious. I'm sure many people hearing it for the first time are kind of like, how did this man even thrive and get the job that he did?

So, again, a mixed bag and a very controversial and contradictory image of a man who we've lost today and is certainly worthy of discussion. But clearly, there are two sides to this story.

COATES: Eyes wide open. Christine Brennan, thank you for bringing us all of that information.

BRENNAN: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: I appreciate it.


COATES: There are also text messages that have been released tonight from an army reservist reporting how concerned he was about the main shooter. I'm going to show you those text messages after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)


COATES: There are newly released text messages revealing the extent of concern over the Maine mass shooter's state of mind before the rampage that he went on in Lewiston, Maine, killing 18 people.

The texts were from an Army reservist saying that he believed that Robert Card was -- quote -- "messed up in the head" -- unquote -- and feared that he could -- and I'm quoting again -- "snap and do a mass shooting."

This evening, we've learned that President Biden and the first lady planned to travel to Lewiston on Friday to pay their respects to families affected by the tragedy.

And tonight, people in the Winthrop community held a candlelight vigil to remember 14-year-old Aaron Young. Aaron and his father, Bill, were among those killed at the bowling alley.

I want to thank you all for watching. Our live coverage continues after a short break.