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Laura Coates Live
New Wave Of Democrats Doubt Biden, Urge Him To Quit Race; Alec Baldwin Faces Trial; George Clooney Urges President Biden To Quit Race; Black Man Dies After Hotel Security Guards Pin Him Down. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired July 10, 2024 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:00:51]
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Well, Democrats are asking Joe Biden, is being the nominee really your final answer? Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
So that tick-tock you're hearing, that's kind of maybe the agita that's forming, because I'm actually frustrated tonight. I don't think we're actually getting straight answers. We're back to the frustration that I often tell you about, the one of having to preface statements with what people are saying in public, but what they're saying in private. Frankly, I absolutely hate that.
Say what you mean, when you mean to say. I know it is politics and it's Washington, D.C., but say what you mean, period. You've asked for a chance to lead, say what you think in front of a camera. But instead, it's a waiting game to see, which is the next straw to fall on the proverbial camel's back.
And here's the next floating straw. If that 90-minute debate wiped out President Biden's reelection campaign, well, tomorrow, he may get 30 or so minutes to actually try to save it. It either put out the fire in the party or if it goes left, it could fuel it. Arguably, again, the most important press conference of Biden's political career, maybe until the next one, unscripted, taking questions from the press.
Right now, though, the fire is still being stoked by a slow trickle of daily, well, maybe I'm being too generous here, almost hourly trickles of news of yet another congressional Democrat telling Biden to say uncle. We're now up to, I think, 10 totals at this point, including the first U.S. senator to come against Biden and say it is time to go, Peter Welch of Vermont, and his reason is the same as the others: Trump is a threat to the nation and they don't think Biden can beat him.
But here's my question. Why is there presently, given the number of Democrats who we are not naming who are in office, why is there the refusal, at least publicly, to take Biden at his word that he's not leaving?
My question is sincere, really is. It was literally in the first paragraph of a letter that he sent them. And I'm quoting here when I say, "I am firmly committed to staying in this race, to running this race to the end, and to beating Donald Trump." Now, I'm not naive as to why there might not be the convincing, but Democrats just don't seem to believe that his decision is final or maybe, just maybe, they don't want it to be.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), FORMER SPEAKER OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: It's up to the president to decide if he is going to run. We're all encouraging him to make that decision because time is running short.
JONATHAN LEMIRE, MSNBC HOST: He has said he has made the decision. He has said firmly this week he is going to run. Do you want him to run?
PELOSI: I want him to do whatever he decides to do.
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): I have complete confidence that Joe Biden will do the patriotic thing for the country. He's going to make that decision. He has never disappointed me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: This almost feels like, as a mommy, when I ask my kids what they want to eat for dinner, and I have an answer in mind. And they say something else. And I go, yeah, we'll think about it. We'll think about what you're saying in the long run. And they have the same answer. And I have the same answer. You know I'm going to win. But this is not so clear. I don't run this particular household.
And again, the people who won't take guess for an answer, they're the ones at his own party. And there's still a frustrating gap between the private talks and what is said in public. Take, for example, what Carl Bernstein told CNN tonight, that Senator Schumer wants to get a group of people to meet with Biden to discuss the situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR: Three or four people who love Joe Biden in the Senate, in the House, among his friends, meet with Biden, not ambush him but have a full discussion with Biden, maybe including Nancy Pelosi, about the repercussions of his decision that he is running and case closed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now, you see why we had the whole who wants to be a millionaire sound at the beginning of this? He said what he wanted.
[23:05:00]
And you have in public all Schumer is saying, that he's with Biden. I'm not talking about just elected officials. Donors, too, were included in this. I mean, Biden, he lost George Clooney today in the op-ed. You got to read it. And that's the man who helped him raise $30 million in Los Angeles last month, by the way. He now says that Biden needs to quit. But it's how he said it that may be doing the most damage.
Clooney wrote -- quote -- "It's devastating to say it, but the Joe Biden I was with three weeks ago at the fundraiser was not the Joe 'big F-ing deal' Biden of 2010. He wasn't even the Joe Biden of 2020. He was the same man we all witnessed at the debate." I note, of course, that was several weeks ago. You see my point about the gap in between.
Well, joining me now, Biden ally and Hawaii's Democratic governor, Josh Green. He was part of the Biden governor's meeting one week ago today. Governor Green, thank you so much for joining. Look, it has been a week since you and other governors met with the president. While many of you expressed your support for Biden, that has not stopped the debate as to whether he should stay at the top of the ticket. Given all that we've seen, do you still support him?
GOV. JOSH GREEN (D-HAWAII): Yes. The president was very well-spoken when we, 25 Democratic governors, were together. And we know he had a terrible debate. He has had three great years. And, you know, I'm still going to love George Clooney movies. But we are a country about democracy. We got to get -- we got to get past this because Donald Trump is a threat to our way of life.
You know, I've had the luxury of being with the president several times these last couple years because we had this tragedy on, you know, on Maui, the wildfire. The president came and walked the mile of Front Street with us with the first lady and my wife, Jamie. Then he greeted 300 people.
And look, these guys are old. President Biden is old. Donald Trump is old. They're going to have some bad days. But you have to have a good heart. And that's what our president is. And he can win this election. But I do think the Democrats across the spectrum need to either rally behind him or just accept that this is his choice to make.
COATES: I mean, you hear a drip, drip, drip instead. One by one, people are coming out. And again, it's nowhere near the actual number, total number of Democrats that are in the House or the Senate. But what does the White House say? Have you been talking to them about what their plan is to get back on track and stop this slow drip?
GREEN: I have, yes. So, they were with 200 mayors. It went very well. They were with the union leadership. It went well. You know, one of the problems, I think, Laura, is that --
COATES: Excuse me. What does that mean, it went well? I want to understand. What does it mean, it went well? What are they saying about how they're going to course correct?
GREEN: Well, the course correction is Joe has to have mostly good days. And people have to ultimately judge between two people. They have to judge between an elderly president with wisdom, who has some bad moments, and they have to choose the other -- against the other opponent, I would hope, which is an elderly gentleman who's a sociopath. And when you put that question in front of union leaders or mayors
that have to look out for their people or people in Hawaii who saw one president care for our people when we had the worst disaster in history versus the other president who threw Molotov cocktails at me on the press and criticized everything about Hawaii, it's an easy choice.
I don't think that people realize that when Ronald Reagan was running for a second term, he was not at his best. And by the last two years, Ronald Reagan was very diminished. But people loved him all the same. And his values were what carried the day for his team. And what Joe's values are will carry, you know, the day for our team.
And just -- by the way, we do have an awesome backup quarterback in, you know, in the vice president because, you know, he picked her. So, I think people will have to see Joe a few times in a, you know, a decent setting. But I believe in people for the breadth of their career.
And look, we don't put people out to pasture like our parents or grandparents when they aren't at their best. We actually have them be with the grandkids and share some of their wisdom. We just might not do it for 20 hours a day. So --
COATES: Hmm.
GREEN: -- I believe in people. And though there may be weaknesses, there could be others.
COATES: I do find the example of Reagan curious given the way that history often looks back at the end of his presidency and who people believe may have been in control or not. But I take your point at the idea of there was a point in time when an elder statesman, so to speak, was one that was thought of to have the institutional knowledge.
But on the issue of mental acuity, I do want you to listen to what Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer told my colleague, Abby Phillip, just in the last hour.
[23:10:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Should he, as some people have suggested, just go ahead and take a cognitive test and demand that Donald Trump do the same?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): I don't think that it hurt, to be honest. But at the end of the day, you know --
PHILLIP: So, you think that he should take a cognitive test?
WHITMER: I don't think it would hurt.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: Do you think it would hurt?
GREEN: The president goes through lots of tests. I think that -- I think that the governor made a very good point. And that point is this. If we're going to judge President Biden, we must judge former President Trump with the same kind of assessments.
And I am a physician, by the way. Gretchen, you know, she -- she recognizes that people want these answers. If you do cognitive tests of both presidents, you're going to probably get similar results. If you do psychiatric batteries of tests, you will find that you have a very, very solid human being in President Biden, and you will definitely find a malignant narcissistic personality disorder in former President Trump.
And when you have that personality trait and disorder, that's when you yank, you know, the reproductive rights away from women. That's when you treat transgender people terribly. That's when you dismiss the value of minorities. That's what you've got from the former president.
So, I would be very interested to see what the psychiatric battery of tests would also look like for the two comparative candidates. But, you know, look, I'm just a lowly family physician, and I can only tell you this: The guy was able to answer my questions, he has a great team around him, and he really has the right policies for our country.
That's ultimately what should carry the day. I know that people want to make sure that the debate wasn't kind of the baseline now. We're going to have that chance. There'll be another debate. There's going to be many interviews. There's going to be a thousand public events where people are going to stream them live on social media.
I think if the president rallies a little, and he has rallied these last 13 days since that debate, then we can really look into their hearts and say, look, the country cannot afford to go back to Donald Trump.
And let's rally around and support this president. That's kind of what I would like to see my Democratic colleagues do. Honestly, we should not be putting people out of their misery because they had one 90- minute bad debate. And in truth, I did ask the president how he was feeling --
COATES: Yes.
GREEN: -- because I was worried about him. He was sick. You know, when was the last time you felt terrible and you wanted to go on TV?
COATES: Don't ask me that question. I work 24/7. But yes, sure. I get your point.
(LAUGHTER)
Governor, I do.
GREEN: Yes. COATES: Thank you so much for joining this evening. I can't imagine the Pandora's box that would be opening of having the battery of tests you just described across the board. Thank you so much.
GREEN: You bet. Take care.
COATES: Well, data, data, data. Everyone believes data will play a crucial role in whether President Biden decides to stay in the race. And again, he said he's staying in the race. But, you know, some prominent Democrats want the White House to show the internal data if it shows a course forward.
Kate Bedingfield, former White House communications director under Biden and CNN analyst, writing on "X" today -- quote -- "If they," meaning the Biden campaign, "have data that supports the path to victory that they see, they should put it out there now and help people who badly want to beat Trump rally around it. People want to see the path."
Well, the White House isn't showing all of their cards yet. And while most of the conversation centers around Democrats, we know that independents could very well decide this race.
Senior data reporter Harry Enten joins me now. Harry, always good to see you. How does the data reveal or what does it reveal about Biden's support among independents now?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yeah, you know, Laura, we have looked at a lot of national data post-debate among the electorate at large. But the fact of the matter is this election is going to be won or lost in the middle. It's not going to be won or lost in the extreme.
So, I want to take a look at how independents are viewing this race between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. I want to sort of give you a timeline here because I really think it just illustrates the deep trouble that the current incumbent is in. All right?
So, if you go back to November of 2020, what do we see in the matchup between Joe Biden and Donald Trump among independents? Well, Joe Biden won that group in 2020 by 11 points. It's the reason he won that election, because back in 2016, Donald Trump won independents. But where were we pre-debate? Well, we already saw some trouble for the current incumbent, Joe Biden, because Donald Trump was ahead by two points among independents.
But look at where we are today post-debate. Donald Trump has opened up a six-point advantage among independents. That's an even larger margin than he had back in 2016, when, of course, he was able to defeat Hillary Clinton.
Now, of course, the question is, what is going on with independents? Why are they shifting towards Donald Trump and away from Joe Biden? Look, it comes down to the question we've all been talking about over the past week, and that is Joe Biden's age and whether or not independents feel that Joe Biden is too old to be an effective president.
[23:15:05]
Again, the timeline here is so important. You go back to 2020, mid- June, right around this point in the election cycle, perhaps a little bit earlier, but still right around this point. Get this. Only 38% of independent voters said that Joe Biden was too old to be an effective president. You go to pre-debate 2024. Look at that. It already launched up to 75%. But look at where we are now. It is 79%. We've even gone up from that 75% pre-debate to 79% now. And that, of course, is more than double where we were four years ago at this point.
Laura, I do not understand how someone can win an election when 79% of the middle of the electorate believes that that candidate is too old to be an effective president. When you put it all together, these are just horrible numbers for Joe Biden.
COATES: Wow. Harry Enten, stay right there. I have more questions for you. I want to bring in our conversation and our panel, national reporter for Axios, Alex Thompson, former deputy assistant to President Biden, Ashley Etienne, and also former Republican congressman Joe Walsh.
Look, those numbers are not great news for any campaign. There are those who would be skeptical and say, okay, well, the best polls are Election Day, and I can show you a poll to fit anything. Those numbers show you a great deal of things.
Ashley, let me begin with you here, you heard earlier today former Speaker Pelosi, who you've worked for, by the way, sort of leave perhaps a door open or a glimmer of consideration. People are interpreting that she wanted Biden to maybe make decision. He has made decision. Why do you think she said the things she did? Is it being misinterpreted?
ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR V.P. KAMALA HARRIS: No, I mean, she also said today that she thinks that he can win in November. But I think what she's trying to do is give the caucus some space to deliberate, for members to make their grievances known, and -- and also give the president some room, too, to also engage those members.
And so, the question is whether or not that's actually happening right now. I think the question was, you asked the governor, how do you stop the bleeding? It's not so clear to me that they're stopping the bleeding.
But let me just -- let me tell you a couple of things I do know about the speaker. She does not mince words --
COATES: Right.
ETIENNE: -- and she's very intentional about everything she says. And she is ruthless when it comes to winning and protecting the interests of this country. And no one is above reproach with her when it comes to that. And it's absolutely not a personal thing. It is putting the interests of the country before.
So, if I had to read between and listen between the lines, I'm kind of hearing her say what you said at the top of the show, which is reconsider. I heard what you said, but I need you to think about it a little longer. But I think a lot of this is going to rest on his performance tomorrow.
I'm also hearing that leadership is coming together, rallying, thinking through alternatives. And if he doesn't have a good performance on Thursday, is planning to actually stage some level of an intervention with the president by the weekend.
I'm also hearing from the White House that they feel like they just need to make it to Friday. He needs to have a solid performance on Thursday. By Friday, everything shifts to the republican convention. They can get back on the offensive and, you know, and turn the page on this thing. And the Democrats will have to, you know, settle down, temper their anxiety and refocus on Donald Trump.
COATES: I think we need to give Ashley a show called "I'm also hearing" because --
(LAUGHTER)
I want to hear that. Seriously, I'm going to ask you for a second, Alex, on this point, because you broke the news that the Republican- led House Oversight Committee is actually subpoenaing three top Jill Biden aides to try to assess what they think of the president's mental fitness. They're not going to be letting this go.
When you think about that, and if history tells us anything, the subpoena process in Congress is going to be dragged out. Is the point the request to use a talking point or is the request the actual information?
ALEX THOMPSON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: Could be both. Right? I mean, even if they turn it down or if they, you know, exercise executive privilege, this is going to continue the story through election day. I can tell you, even before these subpoenas came out, there were Democrats in and outside the administration that were anticipating that James Comer, who issued the subpoenas, was going to do something with, you know, to keep this in the news throughout November.
So, I think that's another thing that's giving Democrats anxiety, is that they are not going to be able to get away from this. There is no pivoting from this. Republicans are going -- Republicans haven't had to do anything right now, but they're going to do stuff to keep it in the news cycle.
You know, the other thing that was really interesting of your earlier interview with the governor that stood out to me is he was mentioning that he talked to the mayors, he talked to the governors. You know, I talked to several offices of the mayors that were on that call, and they were really struck by the fact that it had like a very staged pep rally feel. The governor, the mayors could not unmute themselves. They could not ask spontaneous questions.
[23:20:00]
It felt like all the questions they took were, you know, just pre- selected. You've done such a great job. What else are you going to do in the second term? There was not really addressing the elephant in the room of mental fitness. And I think that continued scriptedness from the president and his team is driving Democrats crazy because they really want to see him, hey, if you can do this job in the four and a half years, be spontaneous, go off script. And he has not done that yet.
JOE WALSH, FORMER ILLINOIS REPRESENTATIVE: Laura, that's the problem. And it's like the two radio interviews he did, and they gave the radio host the questions to ask. Look, this is on the president. And the bigger problem to this point is it's actually not even the debate anymore, Laura. It's the almost two weeks since the debate.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
WALSH: We're still talking about it. Biden got to get out there. He's got to be unscripted. Be yourself, Joe. Why hasn't he done it in the last two weeks? He could have put this --
ETIENNE: He could have gone to the caucus meeting.
WALSH: He could have gone to the caucus meeting. He could have met with every -- He could have gotten --
COATES: Was he -- could he have gone to the caucus meeting? Was there some invitation and he rejected it, or you're saying, theoretically, he could have arrived?
ETIENNE: Theoretically, he could have arrived.
WALSH: Yeah, he could have gone. He could have called and said, I'm coming.
THOMPSON: It's an open invitation.
WALSH: Yeah.
ETIENNE: It's the president.
WALSH: The point is it has always been on him to address this issue. He had a bad debate. He has had two weeks to prove something. He hasn't done that yet. To Ashley's point, hopefully, he can begin to prove that tomorrow night or tomorrow at the news conference. It's on him.
COATES: Let me play devil's advocate for a second because maybe it's the former prosecutor. I'm consistently cynical. And I wonder, the debate is one moment in time, but surely, people have realized that he has used a teleprompter before then, that has been unscripted or it has been scripted before that moment, that he has been criticized for gaffes before that moment. A lot of the words is now being exposed. It was not a novelty in some respects.
Why do you think this now was the moment, this proverbial straw? What is it about this one? Was it the viewing audience or was it being viewed by some as now that it's open, we got a problem?
THOMPSON: I think now it's open because this was a moment when he was completely on his own. He had no crutch. He had no teleprompter. He had no aids. It was 90 minutes unfiltered. And it made it. So, for Democrats, it became undeniable. And also, for Democrats, it made them really fear that this will make him unelectable.
Now, that being said, I think you're completely right. And in some ways, the beltway is catching up to where voters already were. I mean, I think the beltway in some ways was discounting the fact that polls had consistently showed 70 to 80% of Americans who can't agree on anything had long agreed that Joe Biden was too old to run for a second term. And now, all of a sudden, they're like, oh.
So, there is a potential that the polling, the second round of polling that's going to come after July 4th, may not be as bad as some Democrats fear because this had already been baked in. But it is going to be bad. You are going to see Joe Biden probably fall behind. And the question is, is it enough behind that Joe Biden is convinced that he is no longer the most electable Democrat?
WALSH: Laura, Harry's number before the debate, 75% thought he was too old to be effective. Before the debate. This has always been his one issue that he had to prove.
COATES: But you know what? Before the debate, he was the presumptive Democratic nominee. And so, there is that rub as well. We'll see what's going to happen. There will be a series of events and interviews as well. Thank you to all of you so much.
Well, George Clooney, he is getting heat for urging Biden to step down, including from D.L. Hughley, who's calling some Democrats feckless cowards. Well, D.L. Hughley is my guest next.
Plus, opening statements in Alec Baldwin's involuntary manslaughter trial. We're going to go through them and all what's being said in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:27:38]
COATES: Well, testimony is now underway in the involuntary manslaughter trial of Alec Baldwin. The actor is sitting in court, flanked between two of his lawyers, and listening on, all as the prosecution tries to prove that it was his actions that killed "Rust" cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.
In opening statements, prosecutor Erlinda Johnson trying to paint Baldwin as reckless, as someone who did not care about safety, and as the person ultimately responsible for what led to the tragedy on that movie set. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERLINDA JOHNSON, PROSECUTOR: The evidence will show that someone who played make-believe with a real gun and violated the cardinal rules of firearm safety is the defendant, Alexander Baldwin. He pointed the gun at another human being, cocked the hammer, and pulled that trigger, in reckless disregard for Miss Hutchins's safety.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Well, if that sounds different from what you've heard before, it's because it is. This is what Baldwin claimed in a 2021 interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: But the prosecution insisting today that he did pull the trigger and that the evidence will back it up. Now, as for the defense, Attorney Alex Spiro says it was not Baldwin's responsibility to make sure that no live rounds were in that gun, which jurors got to see today.
Jurors also saw a video from an earlier rehearsal showing Baldwin pulling the gun. Baldwin's own team playing the video actually arguing that it shows that people on set were telling him to do it and there was no danger. The defense instead blaming the armorer and the first assistant director who declared the gun was safe to use. Now, Baldwin's lawyer says he could not have known what was in the chamber.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX SPIRO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He was an actor acting, playing the role of Harlan Rust. An actor playing a character can act in ways that are lethal, that just aren't lethal on a movie set. He did not know or have any reason to know that gun was loaded with a live bullet. That's the key. That live bullet is the key. That is the lethal element.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: The defense is also trying to temper the prosecution's claim that Baldwin pulled the trigger.
[23:30:00]
Spiro is saying no one saw Baldwin intentionally pull it, but even if he did, it's not against the law while filming.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPIRO: On a movie set, you're allowed to pull the trigger. So even if, even if he intentionally pulled the trigger like the prosecutor just demonstrated, that doesn't make him guilty of homicide. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now, you know, Baldwin faces up to 18 months in prison if he is convicted. In March, armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, she was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to 18 months. Baldwin's trial is expected to last about two weeks.
And joining me now, Neama Rahmani, a former federal prosecutor and president of West Coast Trial Lawyers. Neama, thank you so much for being here. I mean, you've heard a little bit from both just even tonight, the prosecution side, the defense side. The prosecution arguing that Baldwin used the gun irresponsibly. The defense saying he's just an actor. He had no way of knowing it was loaded. Who gave the more convincing opening statements?
NEAMA RAHMANI, PRESIDENT, WEST COAST TRIAL LAWYERS: I think the defense did, and this is why. I mean, the prosecution, we knew that they were going to lean into the argument that Baldwin pulled the trigger. That's what the FBI ballistics report says. And Baldwin famously told George Stephanopoulos that he did not.
But I think the defense had a compelling argument that there were more culpable people here. Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, of course, is the armorer. She was convicted and sentenced to 18 months. But assistant director David Halls, he was the one who said it was a cold gun. And there was a 9-1-1 video that was played -- excuse me, an audio that said that he was the one who was responsible. And the defense was able to get that in. And he, of course, got a no-time misdemeanor deal. So, I think the defense has the edge so far.
COATES: And, of course, remember, the judge has already said that the jury cannot hear about Baldwin being a producer as a part of this, cutting off some of the ammunition, so to speak, about momentum, about who would have oversight of all of this. But the defense is also saying that police and investigators mishandled the gun and ordered a test that actually damaged it. How does that play for the prosecution?
RAHMANI: I think the prosecution still will be able to prove that that trigger did go off. And I think the defense is going to have to step back a little bit. Baldwin, of course, said that he didn't pull the trigger. I think, ultimately, we'll see the defense argue that it accidentally discharged.
And there were reports of missed things on set, firearms. And we don't know if it was this specific firearm, but at least one firearm that had discharged, maybe even more than one. So, I think, ultimately, that's the direction the defense is going to go in here and take a step back from Baldwin saying that he didn't actually pull that trigger.
COATES: Well, Neama, one of the strongest things for the defense is having somebody already being convicted of similar charges, and your client was not tried along with them. But the prosecution, they have a burden to meet. Will they meet it? The jury is going to be hearing so much. We'll follow this trial. It's an important one. Neama Rahmani, thank you so much. RAHMANI: Thanks for having me, Laura.
COATES: Up next, comedian D.L. Hughley calling out George Clooney. He'll tell us why he's taking issue with the movie star's latest political message after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:37:44]
COATES: Day by day, there's a bigger reaction across the country about whether or not Biden should be on the presidential ticket. Now, Hollywood is weighing in. As we mentioned, George Clooney was urging the party to move on from Biden after the debate, writing in "The New York Times" -- quote -- "Our party leaders need to stop telling us that 50 million people didn't see what we just saw. We're also terrified by the prospect of a second Trump term that we've opted to ignore every warning sign."
Now, some Hollywood bigwigs are sharing in that perspective and others are really criticizing him for taking that position and publicly. And one of those critics joins me now, actor and stand-up comedian D.L. Hughley, who I'm glad to have as a part of the show this evening.
D.L., you know, you -- you blasted Clooney over his decision to call on President Biden to quit this race. Tell me why you think he was wrong to say what he said.
D.L. HUGHLEY, COMEDIAN: Well, I think he obviously has a righteous opinion, but where I stand on it is this precisely the Republican National Convention on Monday. And we have a Republican nominee who's picking a vice presidential candidate that he has to replace because he had to have him killed. He tried to have him killed. And rather than talking about that, we're talking about replacing a nominee who had -- whether you like this or not, President Biden has had the legislative agenda that would rival FDR.
And so, I think that while people have the right to voice their opinion, they should be rooted in some level of sanity. If you look at where -- for instance, if you look at where George W. Bush and John Kerry were at this time in their race in June and July of that year, Kerry was seven points ahead of him. If you look at where Barack Obama and Mitt Romney were in their race, October 16, two and a half weeks before that election, Romney was four points ahead of Obama. And the thing that those two people have in common is the power of the incumbents.
So, you have openly people advocating for a president to give up the power of the bully pulpit and the incumbency months before a presidential election, which is ridiculous. Historically, no president has ever gave up incumbency.
[23:40:00]
No party has ever given up the incumbency of the president and won the election. It just never happened. COATES: What I found -- it was an interesting point. I hear you in the historical references. It gives great context to understand how these numbers can shift. But there was a point in this -- in this op-ed where he talks about how, I'll read it here, he's talking about how there was new and upsetting information. He talks about, well, we all think Republicans should abandon their nominee now that he has been convicted of 34 felonies.
And so, I just wonder, from the perspective of the timing aspect of it, did you see anything with respect to President Biden and the power of the incumbency that would give you the same level of concern about Republicans trying to replace their nominee because of felony convictions and Biden's 90 minutes?
HUGHLEY: I think that I -- I interviewed the president on May 29th, a few weeks before the debate, at the White House and on the Air Force One. Now, obviously, he's an older man. Obviously, there's no disputing that. But let's be clear. The Democrats should be focusing on what's at stake in terms of what they're running against. The one thing that I didn't hear George Clooney mention was Project 2025.
COATES: Hmm.
HUGHLEY: And I think we have a decidedly different vantage point. If you look at who Project 2025 affects the most, it is communities of color. It is the people who have less than. Now, if you're a straight white male in this country, you could be disappointed in the election, but it wouldn't have disastrous results. I think that's decidedly a different thing for communities of color.
And I think that the vantage point they speak from, I don't think that he speaks for the people that I speak. I speak to millions of people every day on my radio show. And that's the sentiment I hear that is -- that is kind of bantered around.
And so, I just think the one thing I can say for sure is the reticence that a lot of young Black men have with the Democratic Party is the cowardice at every turn, the hand-wringing, the fecklessness, and they exhibit it all the time. It's just a lot to take.
COATES: You know, I'm a fan of your show and listen to it all the time. And I want you to unpack a little bit more about what you're hearing on that idea of the cowardice because one of the criticisms I often hear is Democrats eat their own, that there's a circular firing squad.
HUGHLEY: Absolutely.
COATES: The attempt to have --
HUGHLEY: Absolutely.
COATES: -- a higher ground is to their detriment. And yet, and yet there is something to be said about having a moral compass, about having the high ground and about calling out wrong wherever it may be. But tell me about what you're hearing from people about how they view these last couple weeks.
HUGHLEY: Well, here's the thing. LBJ had the moral compass. He left. Richard Nixon became president. And that, for Black people, became the onslaught of mass incarceration and the war on drugs. It had disastrous consequences for Black people. When Donald Trump won, it had disastrous consequences for Black people.
If you look at who suffered the most under those policies, if you look at his COVID reaction, who died the most? So, this, for me, is not a whimsical conversation. For me, it's not a conversation about what is -- what is uncomfortable. It is what is necessary.
Look at Project 2025 and tell me, for sure, I watch the mass media, and no one has interviewed anybody seriously with the fervor about Biden's age that they do about Project 2025. No one. No one. And who does it affect?
If they disband or absolve the Department of Education, who does it affect primarily? Environmental rollbacks, who does it affect primarily? All the things that are geared (ph). If they DEI or if they Black history, who does it affect? Because the truth of the matter is in 2020, it was Black and brown people that fired Donald Trump. More white people voted for him in 2020 than voted for him in 2016. Black and brown people fired him. And as a result of this, we have these draconian measures than Project 2025.
And more -- rather than Democrats focusing on that, they're focusing on the age of a man. By the time this is over, one thing is for certain, Joe Biden will be older, and Project 2025 will still be the platform that is running behind all of this.
COATES: You know, this has been one of the big criticisms, that people have not gone after what are the obvious Achilles heels of one's opponent. And you mentioned that you also interviewed Vice President Harris, I believe, about a month ago as well.
HUGHLEY: Yes.
COATES: And I do want to get your take given, you know, Project 2025 has more than a few dog whistles, shall we say. And there's also overt statements that are being made.
HUGHLEY: Not dog whistles.
COATES: No, I said more than overt dog whistles, I'm saying, in terms of thinking about it. And there are also moments when people are using race and having those discussions to criticize the vice president of the United States. And I want to get your take on something that she has recently been facing, well, been facing for quite some time, but especially now that she's being named as possibly someone to top a ticket. Listen to what the former Trump official, Sebastian Gorka, had the nerve to say about her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN GORKA, RADIO HOST: She's a DEI-hire, right? She's a woman. She's colored. Therefore, she's got to be good. And at least her brain doesn't literally freeze in mid-sentence.
[23:45:02]
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now, I don't know if you can see who's on that screen, but one of them, on the right, I believe, is Matt Whitaker, who is the former acting attorney general of the United States, with that smile on his face. What do you make of these attacks?
HUGHLEY: It's an interesting thing. Seventeen senators gone on to become president. She was one of them. She's one of those of vice presidents. Very few people. She has been an attorney general of the largest, most populous, most wealthy state in the country. So, there is this notion. More -- more -- America has been more damaged by GCI than DEI. The greedy, corrupt, incompetent white men have caused more damage to the United States of America than diversity, equity, inclusion.
Who caused Boeing? Who caused the mortgage crisis? Who caused our reaction and our lack of reaction to COVID? It wasn't -- because what people do is blame the things they can't control. Kamala Harris is more than qualified to accept the presidency of the United States of America, which is interesting because her chance to be president wasn't fealty. It wasn't much like Donald Trump's -- whoever his select will be. It is her -- it is her professionalism and her, actually, ability to run the country.
And another point is, if Joe Biden, as a lot of people worry, can't complete his term, who's better qualified than to complete his term than Vice President Harris? So, you have a twofer. You have both the power of the incumbency and somebody who's more than willing, capable, and able to run the presidency should he cede or should he not be able to complete his thing.
So what men do, what mediocre white men do, is blame things. They have no excuse for their failures. The reason that Donald Trump did not get a second term is because he so mishandled COVID that he was fired by the American people. And only their ability to hold their nose and keep running keeps him in the office.
To attack a woman -- we can attack her policies, we can attack the things that you do, but her competence is above -- is above the pale. We don't even have that conversation. I guarantee you this, you have never seen a more accomplished and competent and ready vice president. And you know what, I'll tell you what, I'd rather have a vice president who's ready to step in than one that somebody tried to hang.
COATES: D.L. Hughley, I knew I wanted to talk to you tonight. Thank you so much.
HUGHLEY: Thank you.
COATES: Up next, there is a family right now looking for answers. D'Vontaye Mitchell died after he was pinned down by security at a hotel in Milwaukee. And now, there is a homicide investigation. The disturbing video is next.
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[23:51:58]
COATES: A family in Milwaukee left reeling after the death of 43-year- old Dvontaye Mitchell. According to police, on June 30th, Mitchell allegedly caused some kind of a disturbance at Milwaukee Hyatt Regency. Now, we don't know anything about this alleged disturbance, but that is what police say led security guards to escort Mitchell out of the hotel. What happened next was captured on camera by witnesses. And I have to warn you, the footage here is extremely graphic and disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: (INAUDIBLE)
UNKNOWN: (INAUDIBLE)
UNKNOWN: Please!
UNKNOWN: Stop fighting!
UNKNOWN: Please!
UNKNOWN: (INAUDIBLE).
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Oh, no!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now, when police officers eventually arrived at the scene, Mitchell was unresponsive and pronounced dead, despite life-saving measures that police say were taken. Now, it is still unclear what led to Mitchell's encounter with the security guards, how long it took police to arrive on the scene, and what Mitchell was doing at the hotel. The preliminary manner of death is being called a homicide, according to the Milwaukee County medical examiner, but the final manner of death is yet to be determined.
I want to bring in now Ben Crump. He is the attorney for Dvontaye Mitchell's family. Mr. Crump, so glad to see you, but not under these circumstances. It is hard to watch that video, to hear his words, and know the outcome. And I understand that one of the family's attorneys met with the DA's office today where they revealed new video. What did they see and learn in that new video?
BEN CRUMP, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, Attorney Will Sulton and some of the family members met this morning with the DA and looked at the video, the rest of us will see tomorrow, and it showed him being punched, kicked, and beaten with a metal baton by the security guard, and it showed them dragging him through the hotel. And so, we just see the bystander video outside. They say it's far worse, the video that's on the inside. COATES: The Milwaukee DA, we now know, is investigating the death as a homicide. Do you expect charges to be brought against security guards? And mind you, there is a distinction. We normally hear about officer- involved cases. The security guards themselves, could there be charges brought against them?
CRUMP: Well, Laura Coates, we don't take anything for granted. But with this video, the fact that we have an affidavit from one of the employers who was holding his legs, parents encouraged this young man, you come forward and tell the truth, and what he said was he told the security guards he thought that this was excessive, he couldn't breathe, and they ordered him to keep doing what he was doing.
[23:55:02]
And that's so troubling on so many levels because that young man feels the higher employees or the franchise-owned employees were responsible for the senseless death of Dvontaye Mitchell, who is another Black man in a prone position, face down, having breathing issues. After George Floyd, we thought that we wouldn't see these many matters like this.
COATES: You know, in one video of the incident, you could hear a security guard saying something like, this is what happens when you go into the ladies' room. And at your press conference today, you said that that's character assassination of Mitchell. Do you have any idea of what triggered this encounter at all?
CRUMP: Well, we know that he had mental health issues. But the one thing the video cleared up for us was that he didn't arbitrarily go into the ladies' room as if he was some kind of pervert, which was the false narrative that was initially put out there to justify this. He was running from them, and he ran into the gift shop, ran into the ladies' room, but at no point was he trying to violate anybody. In fact, they said on the video, you don't see him hit anybody. He is the only one being hit, punched, kicked, and hit with a metal billy club.
I mean, where's the humanity? I mean, it's just troubling. And charges should be brought because you have video, you have witness statements, you have affidavits. How much more do we have to give the DA to bring charges? If the rules were reversed and it was Dvontaye Mitchell that did this to the security guard, he would have been arrested, charged, and sitting in a jail. Why are the rules different when it's an unarmed Black man that's the victim dead on the street?
COATES: You and I have been in this moment together far too often. And I will continue to follow. And thank you so much for bringing this to light. It is so tragic to see this unfold the way it has. Ben Crump, thank you so much.
CRUMP: Thank you, Laura Coates.
COATES: And thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
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