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Laura Coates Live

Courtroom Reemerges In The 2024 Presidential Campaign; El Chapo's Son Arrested In Texas; Mark Kelly Is Seen As A Top Contender For Harris VP Pick; Hollywood A-Listers Embrace Kamala Harris; Missouri AG Appeals Ruling Freeing Wrongfully Convicted Man. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired July 25, 2024 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: "Laura Coates Live," it starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Well, the courtroom reemerges in the 2024 campaign, tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

All right, look, there is no doubt that Vice President Kamala Harris has some real momentum right now. I mean, her party, it is energized. The polls are tightening. The money, it is flowing. And President Barack Obama's endorsement is coming any day now, they say.

But then comes the hard part, sustaining the momentum and not doing what Mike Tyson once said is the worst thing that you could do, peak too early. Her political haters are trying their hardest to get her to take some kind of dangling bait. They're peppering her with nicknames, and they're insulting her professional journey. They're demeaning her as a woman and a candidate.

Meanwhile, Harris has shown us the last couple of days that she is refining her message to the American people and the electorate. We saw some of that in the new ad that she rolled out today with a Beyonce soundtrack, "Fighting for Freedom," saving democracy, not going back.

But there's one unique to her. And it really -- I mean, it's a made for Hollywood message. The prosecutor taking on a convicted felon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As attorney general of California, I took on the big Wall Street banks and held them accountable for fraud.

(APPLAUSE)

Donald Trump was just found guilty of fraud on 34 counts. So, hear me when I say, I know Donald Trump's type.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: But, you know, there's a catch here, because you might remember that her experience as a D.A., some say, cost her in the democratic primary in 2020, when critics hit her hard as being too hard on crime.

Well, now Republicans want to take a page out of that very book or maybe at least try to. Tim Alberta reports that Trump allies told him, they plan to -- quote -- "assault her left flank with accusations of Harris over-incarcerating young men of color when she was California's attorney general." At the same time, they want to hit her from the right as being too liberal.

One example you're going to hear Republicans bring up dates back to 2004, when she was a San Francisco D.A. That year, she didn't pursue the death penalty for a suspect who was charged and later convicted of killing a cop.

Now, I personally have seen this movie before. Have you not? It was called "Bush versus Dukakis," and the trailer was actually a Willie Horton ad. So, the question for everyone is, which is it? Is she too soft on crime or is she too hard on crime? What is the strategy here, and what will be the winning strategy?

Now, in Trump's speak, it all morphs into, well, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now that she's running for president, Kamala is suddenly trying to transform her personality to pretend she is tough on crime. She's so bad on crime. In fact, Kamala Harris was the original Marxist district attorney.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: It's Kamala. Like, I mean, it's Kamala. He must know that, right? I say it every single night. In fact, for the last four years, she has been the vice president. Her name has always been Kamala Harris.

But it'd be nice to have a debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump play out, wouldn't it? Well, tonight, it's not exactly clear if we're going to get even that chance, because his campaign is saying they won't commit to a debate until Harris is officially the nominee. Of course, all but the confetti have already fallen.

Joining me now, Elaina Plott Calabro. She is a staff writer for "The Atlantic," Joe Walsh, Republican former congressman, and Karen Finney, a CNN political commentator. Glad to have you all here.

Let me begin with the debate. I think everyone wants to see this debate happen. The debate, of course, is going to be a very important moment, as we've seen just, what, four weeks ago at this point in time. But Harris says that she is ready to debate right now, Joe. What is the problem with the Trump team? JOE WALSH, FORMER GOP CONGRESSMAN: I think Donald Trump wants to be in the news. I think that's all he's doing right now. By the way, can we just all acknowledge, and I know I have to watch my language on your show --

COATES: Hmm.

WALSH: -- only a jerk would purposely mispronounce an opponent's name. And we know, Laura, why he's doing it. We know exactly who he's appealing to. Shame on him. That's just freaking despicable. I think Trump is afraid. I don't think he knows how to handle her. But he has to debate her, and I think he wants to debate her. I think he's just trying to grab some headlines right now.

COATES: What's the deal with the mispronunciation? I mean, it almost has a tired old record that almost feels like a bad dad joke.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, actually, it's pretty intentional, right?

WALSH: Absolutely.

FINNEY: It is about demeaning her. It is about treating her as if she's insignificant.

[23:05:00]

It is -- again, he's also trying to grab headlines, the fact that we're talking about it. But it's the kind of thing that, and it's something we see against women candidates and particularly women of color, it's othering, right? And so, it's important that we call it out for what it is. At the same time, it's important that we acknowledge we're not going to be distracted by that. We're still going to talk about, like, I mean, you know, I'm sure she has had people mispronounce her name her whole life. So, you know, it doesn't phase her, but we know what he's trying to do when he does it.

And, you know, here's what I think is interesting about it, though. For those suburban women that he has continued to struggle with, they're going to see that kind of thing, particularly if they are on a debate stage, and it's going to remind them all the things they don't like about him.

COATES: Hmm.

FINNEY: And that level of disrespect that he kind of got away with in 2016 against Hillary Clinton, that's not actually going to fly this time.

COATES: He kind of got away with it. I mean, I take the word kind of out. But let me ask you about this. I want to get back to you a second, Joe. Elena, you wrote this really fascinating article. And, of course, you all know I'm a former prosecutor. So, the idea of the attacks of somebody being too soft or too hard on crime, it's just mind-boggling when you're talking about a former attorney general of the second largest justice department in this entire country. But you talk about the framing that she is now doing in this split screen, the prosecutor versus the felon. How might this play differently now than it did in 2020?

ELAINA PLOTT CALABRO, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: So, I could talk about this ad nauseum because I really find it this fascinating. When I listened to her announcement speech from Wilmington on Monday, I thought this is the most confident that I've heard Kamala Harris, and I've covered her for quite some time now. And I think the reason was is that she finally embraced her record as a prosecutor without caveat, which was not the case in 2020. I think what you saw happen in 2020 is she had advisors around her, many of whom said, this is not the moment to be a prosecutor, this is not the moment to elevate yourself as someone with experience in law enforcement.

COATES: George Floyd had just been killed.

PLOTT CALABRO: Exactly. And her response -- and her response to her advisors was, you know, understandably exasperation. But this is my background. What else am I supposed to talk about? But it ended up resulting a lot of times in moments where it just seemed like she sorts of withdrew into a caricature of the moment's politics rather than somebody who was coming at issues authentically. And I think that's the difference in the Kamala Harris we see today.

FINNEY: Can I just point out, so for -- there's about 20 years of research that shows actually the pathway for women running for executive office and, you know, to date, it had been governors, was the A.G., because one of the toughest things for women is to prove that you're going to be tough on crime. The economy and being tough on crime are security, right? And if we look at the history, a lot of our women governors, they were AGs.

I think actually what was going on in 2019 was something very different. I think she understood, as a Black woman, talking about being a prosecutor or the top cop was going to hit people's ears differently than it would if you're white or Black or brown. And I think she had a team around her who didn't fully understand that, who I think at times thought, oh, well, this is great. This is a great issue for her to seem like she's tough on crime and it's going to -- quote, unquote -- "play against type." And I think in her gut, she knew that it was going to -- that it was going to play a little differently for different audiences. I think -- sorry, I was going to say, the distinction that I think they're trying to make this time is a very intentional line from being a prosecutor and prosecuting the kinds of crimes that Donald Trump himself very specifically perpetrated.

WALSH: And politically, in '19 and '20, she was trying to win a democratic primary. So, she didn't want to come off as too tough on crime. This is a perfect situation for her. She's running against a Republican. She's got to win voters in swing states.

COATES: Well, you've got the law and order. Well, they say they're the law and order party of the Republicans. And then, you know, again, I am fascinated by any gut check that when someone is looking to be the head of the executive branch, they wouldn't rely on that executive experience. I think that it's important to talk about one's professional career and experience. And for those who would think that a Black prosecutor would be antithetical to civil rights, you're talking to one who was a civil rights attorney as well.

But she has to embrace that at a time right now when you've got these convictions. And the authenticity issue, I'm wondering about particular, that has been the perception about her. Why do you think that has stuck as her being somehow inauthentic as but one facet of her identity?

PLOTT CALABRO: I think, I mean, frankly, a lot of it is inconsistent media attention to her across her vice presidency.

COATES: Hmm.

PLOTT CALABRO: Um, I think --

COATES: That's important.

PLOTT CALABRO: I think what has happened is the first year and a half in her vice presidency, neither she nor, importantly, Joe Biden really had a coherent vision of what role she should play as a number two.

[23:10:03]

And that -- and that really hurt her. I've written also a lot about this, how I think Joe Biden really did poorly by Kamala Harris, especially when he had framed himself as a bridge to the next generation. He and his team did not invest much time at all into how they were presenting her to the American people, saddling her with no- win issues in those early days.

And so, what I think happened is that that year and a half came to define her vice presidency and people seem to have stopped paying attention after that. But if you're on the ground with her, what you saw happen in 2022, when the Dobbs decision leaked, Kamala Harris regained faith, I think, in her own political instincts. She saw that abortion was going to dictate the midterms. And she was virtually the only official in Washington who saw that at the time.

And even her own advisors, they weren't challenging her, but they would come to her and say, Madam Vice President, we've got the latest polling that says the economy is what's going to motivate voters. And she says -- and she would say, I'm in Texas, I'm in Missouri, you know, I'm on the ground talking to independent women and men who are telling me a different story.

COATES: Hmm.

PLOTT CALABRO: And so that sort of rebuilding her own faith and her own instincts, to me, that culminated in the address that we saw Monday. And I think her team, understandably, is exasperated by kind of the people who are like, where has this person been?

COATES: Hmm. PLOTT CALABRO: They're like, well, she -- you know, she has been here for quite a long time. You know, you just really haven't been paying attention.

COATES: I'm really intrigued by this. I want to continue this conversation. Everyone, just stand by just for a moment.

All this talk of messaging, what are the polls saying about what people actually think? I want to bring in CNN senior data reporter Harry Enten. He's over at that magical wall of his. Harry, look, there are now a number of polls, surprise, surprise, looking at the Harris- Trump matchup, and it's showing a very tight race. What are you seeing?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yeah, you mentioned a very tight race, and I will say absolutely a very tight race here. But here's the thing to keep in mind. I think there's all this talk of all this Harris momentum. Maybe there's a slight bit of momentum, but I would argue it's actually a little bit smaller than folks think.

So, pre-Biden dropping out, look, Trump was up by two over Harris. We look at the polls now this week, what do we see? We see Trump is up by one over Harris. The massive change is actually the change of candidates because prior to Biden dropping out, he trailed by six points among these -- in these exact same polls that we look at here, where Harris was only trailing by two points. So, the movement is actually from Biden to Harris, not actually Harris herself necessarily moving.

More than that, there's a bit of a warning side in the polling data for Democrats. All this talk of Harris coming in and the Harris momentum, perhaps ignores a little bit that Trump has a little bit of momentum of his own. So, look at this, a favorable view of Trump. These are all polls taken at the Republican National Convention. ABC News/Ipsos, 40%. That's the highest ever favorable rating Trump had in that poll. How about Quinnipiac? Forty-six percent. That's the highest for this pollster. How about the New York Times, the highest in this particular poll?

So, the fact is, yes, Harris has come in perhaps with a bit of momentum, but Trump is doing polling the best he ever has in the minds of the American public, at least according to these three pollsters.

COATES: That's interesting to think about. I always joke around with cynics about the polls. I mean, everyone always says they never asked me, so how accurate can a poll be? What is the reality? Are the polls, do you think, on point at this juncture?

ENTEN: Yeah. So, look, the polls can be right, right now, but they're just a snapshot in time. And I think we can get a pretty good view of this by looking at how far the polls are at this point compared to the final margin. On average, since '72, they're off about six points. But they can shift even more than that.

Go back to 1988. Remember, Michael Dukakis was taking on George H.W. Bush. The polls then were taken just after the Democratic National Convention. And what did we see? We saw Dukakis had a huge lead. Of course, what ended up happening was George H.W. Bush won that race relatively easily.

So, the polls actually shifted 26 points from now to the final result. The fact is, with all the stuff that is going on, everything that has happened over the last month or so, I wouldn't be surprised if we get a larger shift than normal. But even if we get an average shift, six points, that could change the entire ballgame and make one candidate a winner and the other one a loser. We're just going to have to wait and see what happens.

COATES: I mean, we're only about 100 days away at this point. And then there's this question, well, Harris, the top of her ticket, it's an incomplete ticket at this particular juncture, but the Republican ticket, that is complete, it's Trump and, of course, J.D. Vance. He seems to be in a lot of hot water, justifiably, saying the country is run by a bunch of -- how did he put it? Childless cat ladies who are miserable. How are his poll numbers?

ENTEN: Yeah, I -- you know, I think it is just worth noting. Let's take a listen to this clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), U.S. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're effectively run in this country via the Democrats, via our corporate oligarchs, by a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices that they've made, and so they want to make the rest of the country miserable, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:15:05]

ENTEN: Yeah, I would say that J.D. Vance is not a particularly well- liked individual, at least in the minds of the American public, and I think it's clips like that that make him dislike.

I want to take a look at V.P. nominees' net favorable rating. These are conducted immediately after the convention. The average since 2000 for a V.P. nominee is a net favorable rating, that's favorable minus unfavorable, of plus 19 points. The lowest ever going all the way back since 1980 is J.D. Vance with a minus five-point net favorability rating.

Laura, he is the first V.P. nominee coming out of his party's or her party's convention to have a net negative favorability rating that is an unfavorable, bigger than their favorable rating ever. The fact is J.D. Vance at this particular point looks like a mistake for Donald Trump. We'll see if things change going down the way. But the fact is that people are voting on their V.P.'s, which they usually don't, but if they did this time around, J.D. Vance might cause Donald Trump instead to be a winner, to be a loser.

COATES: That's an extraordinary figure right there. And you know who's looking at that? The Trump campaign. ENTEN: Oh, yeah.

COATES: Harry, thank you so much.

ENTEN: Thank you.

COATES: Well, my panel is back with me now. We were all reacting in real time to those figures. That negative number, negative five, that was shocking.

FINNEY: It was shocking. I feel like I hear a clock ticking to figure out how much time he's got left on the ticket, actually, before Donald Trump figures out a way to maneuver him off.

COATES: You know, Blake Masters actually doubled down as well on this same philosophy about --

FINNEY: Yeah.

COATES: -- hisn -- I think this is a misogynistic viewpoint, frankly. You can see what he said on the screen there. Why is this the pathway? It doesn't make a winning argument at all.

WALSH: It's not. That was a bad pick. J.D. Vance is MAGA extremist. He's a turnoff to women. And I don't -- Harry is always fascinating, Laura, with the poll numbers. I just don't think we're measuring enthusiasm. And I think Kamala's enthusiasm is just beginning. We're not even near the democratic convention yet.

COATES: Trump thinks it is kind of a honeymoon phase, or people are saying that it might be a honeymoon period. But if she has this renewed confidence that you speak about in your article and describe so well, that could be very sustained.

PLOTT CALABRO: It could be sustained. And I think we are forgetting what it could look like with a Democratic nominee actually barnstorming the campaign trail, not talking about an 8 p.m. bedtime. Kamala Harris has been traveling constantly the past year and a half in particular. That's going to continue. And I think once voters actually start to see the Democratic nominee for president out there holding these rallies, not, you know, sort of taped things from the Oval Office, if ever, that I think is going to contribute to whether or not this can sustain.

COATES: I'll give you the last word, Karen, really quick. This is going to alienate those voters that you want to develop into your fold, right?

FINNEY: Absolutely. I mean, picking J.D. Vance was not an expansion strategy, right? It was a doubling down strategy, and I think it's going to backfire.

COATES: Well, we will see. The clock is ticking for not only the race, but 100 days away at this point in time. Unbelievable. Thank you all.

Look, we are less than two weeks away. It could be sooner from a V.P. decision. The question, of course, and yet another veepstakes is, who will she choose? Take a closer look at the frontrunners who has kept pretty quiet despite all of the noise. You're looking at him right there, Mark Kelly.

And breaking news, two alleged leaders of a Mexican drug cartel arrested in Texas tonight, including El Chapo's son. The stunning way the arrest took place next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:22:25]

COATES: The co-founder of the Sinaloa cartel, commonly known as El Mayo, is currently in FBI custody. The two law enforcement officials say that El Mayo was lured to the U.S. under the guise that he'd be looking at a property for purchase. With him at the time of his arrest, El Chapo's son. His name, Joaquin Guzman Lopez. And tonight, he is also in FBI custody.

Joining me now, CNN correspondent Polo Sandoval is joining us now. Polo, this is extraordinary news this evening. What are you learning?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Laura, to describe this man as a notorious kingpin is really an understatement. He was one of the co-founders of the Sinaloa drug cartel, one of the organizations that the DEA insists is responsible largely for a majority of the fentanyl that ends up on this side of the border.

Just some remarkable information that we've been able to learn just in the last few hours since the story initially broke, since the U.S. government actually confirmed the apprehension of not just Zambada, but also one of the sons of the now-imprisoned narco king, Joaquin El Chapo Guzman, of course, that young man identifies Joaquin Guzman Lopez, what we know is that they were traveling aboard a small plane that today landed somewhere near El Paso.

Now, some fascinating details here, Laura, that I've been able to learn along with some of my colleagues, including Mark Morales, which is that it is currently believed that it's likely that he had no idea that once the plane landed, they would be met by U.S. authorities.

It's still unclear as to whether or not this property that he was supposed to see, potentially to purchase, if he was told that it was either in northern Mexico or on the U.S. side of the border, which may be fairly unlikely, especially given the hefty $15 million bounty that was on Mayo Zambada. So, it would be extremely unlikely that he would ever voluntarily travel here to the U.S. since he is a fugitive that is highly sought by the FBI, by the DA.

But still, that very much remains an open question as to the inner workings of this plot, Laura. Was it perhaps within his organization, within the Sinaloa drug organization that helped lure him to federal authorities, or did members of the federal government perhaps actually have a hand in this as part of this operation, as part of this investigation, I should say? But just a background on him, he, along with Joaquin El Chapo Guzman, who is currently serving a life sentence in Supermax in Colorado, according to federal indictments, stand accused of running and operating, since the 80s, the Sinaloa drug cartel organization.

[23:25:02]

Now, one of the big questions here, Laura, is exactly what's going to happen to this organization. Just because this man is behind bars, it doesn't necessarily mean that the Sinaloa cartel goes away.

COATES: Hmm.

SANDOVAL: You do have still other members of Chapo's family, including other sons as well. So, will this actually lead to some inner turmoil, more violence? That is all yet to be seen. But again, the big headline right now, a notorious drug cartel boss, Ismael El Mayo Zambada, after years of searching on behalf of authorities, is now in U.S. custody on this side of the border.

COATES: Extraordinary. Paulo Sandoval, keep us posted. Thank you so much.

SANDOVAL: You bet.

COATES: Well, Vice President Kamala Harris is set to pick her running mate within, what? The next two weeks? Governors and senators, they dominate this short list, and some are giving the standard nominee speech. It's an honor just to be considered. Sounds a lot like the Oscars, doesn't it? Others are showing some hints of interest, though.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): The only reason I'd ever consider something else is if I felt that I could help my people in Kentucky more in a different role or that there was a chance to move past the partisanship.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Would you love to see yourself on that ticket if that is her choice?

PETE BUTTIGIEG, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: Look, I think anybody would be flattered to be mentioned in that context.

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): I'd be reluctant to make a change, but it'd be hard to resist a call and consideration if the nominee called me to ask to be considered for vice president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: But, you know, one voice is conspicuously quiet. Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly. Well, CNN's Manu Raju raced to catch up with him on Capitol Hill today, But for Kelly, well, mums the word.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Have you had any conversations with the vice president about being her running mate?

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AR): I am not going to get into private conversations I have with the vice president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Saying there was a private conversation with the vice president? Well, today, his wife and former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords campaigned for Harris in Pennsylvania, and she'll stump for Harris in Michigan this weekend.

With me now, Daniel Hernandez, a Democratic state representative from Arizona. He actually interned for Giffords for years. And we're talking about a hero before me today, because in 2011, he helped save her life when she was shot by applying pressure to her wound and quick thinking. He is showing his support behind a potential Harris-Kelly ticket. Daniel, a pleasure to meet you.

DANIEL HERNANDEZ, FORMER ARIZONA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Thanks so much for having me.

COATES: I remember the heroism that everyone described you displayed on that fateful day. And it's extraordinary to be before you today, so thank you for coming.

HERNANDEZ: Thanks for having me.

COATES: You know, you know Mark Kelly very well.

HERNANDEZ: I've known him since I was 18.

COATES: Since you were 18, so like last year.

(LAUGHTER)

HERNANDEZ: I was an intern for Gabby, 16 years --

COATES: Wow.

HERNANDEZ: -- of knowing Mark Kelly.

COATES: And when you know -- you know about him, what about a potential Harris-Kelly ticket?

HERNANDEZ: There are so many things about Mark that make him significantly better than J.D. Vance. I think the first thing is, he is a good man. Above all, he has served his country. And when Gabby got shot, he dropped everything to make sure that he took care of her. That speaks to the kind of character that Mark has had. And the entire time, he is a dedicated family man. He takes care of his family. But more importantly, he has served our country as a veteran, as a Navy pilot, as an astronaut, even outside of being married to Gabby. He has an impressive resume that anybody would be lucky to have.

But I think, electorally, the thing that I think is most exciting is he outperformed every other Senate, House candidate, and gubernatorial candidate in 2022. In a year where Latinos were breaking away from the Democratic Party, he outperformed everybody.

So, when we're looking at the Sun Belt, when we're looking at Nevada, Arizona, any state that has a large Latino population, Mark Kelly is not just going to be popular with the suburban white people, he's popular with Latinos like myself and my family.

COATES: Let's turn from the Sun Belt to the Rust Belt and find ourselves where Senator J.D. Vance believes he would have an advantage. I want you to listen to Kelly actually going after the vice-presidential running mate, J.D. Vance. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AR): What I really worry about is what he would do being one heartbeat away from the president. I have two daughters and a granddaughter. I really worry about their rights if Donald Trump is elected again and J.D. Vance is the vice president. I mean, that really concerns me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I mean, I'd be intrigued by a debate. How do you think he'd fare?

HERNANDEZ: Mark Kelly would do a lot better. We had somebody who did P.R. in the military and somebody who was a Navy fighter pilot and an astronaut who captained multiple missions. Mark is good under pressure, but he has also had life's experience. I'm 34. J.D. Vance is 39. What has he done other than be a venture capitalist and then write one book? Before that, he was nothing other than those two things. Now, he's a U.S. senator. He does not have the work to put in to say that he can be a good vice president. Mark Kelly has a lifetime of experience and a lifetime of serving our country.

COATES: It's interesting to have that dynamic at play when he is a scribe and people are talking about potential DEI candidates who he thinks have less experience than he does.

[23:30:03]

But Republicans have been calling Harris, to the point of Arizona in particular, the border czar. Arizona might be a very crucial state as increasingly so every state becomes a border state. The issue of immigration, top of mind for so many.

Kelly has actually called the border a mess. He has challenged some of Biden's own decisions. And I'm wondering, could -- could Kelly -- could he blunt some of the attacks that Kamala Harris will ultimately face as attached to the Biden ticket previously?

HERNANDEZ: As a border senator, Mark Kelly understands this conflict and this issue more than almost anybody else. He lives in Brazil every single day. So not only would he be able to help the vice president, he would make sure that he's bringing the voice of Arizona, the people who've been most directly impacted by the issues at the border, both on the immigration reform side and on the people that want border security. So, he is somebody that's very well positioned to add to the ticket.

COATES: Will he take it fast?

HERNANDEZ: I hope so. I haven't talked to him about it directly, but I hope he will because we need Mark Kelly to be our vice-presidential nominee.

COATES: We'll see what happens. Daniel Hernandez, what a pleasure speaking to you. Thank you.

HERNANDEZ: Thank you.

COATES: Well, Hollywood insiders were behind a lot of those calls for President Biden to drop out of the race, including my next guest. Rob Reiner is here after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:36]

COATES: Well, it has been described as the moment that altered the 2024 election. The consequential debate between Joe Biden and Donald Trump is when the tide really began to turn against the sitting president. And frankly, Hollywood was not the exception.

Filmmaker Rob Reiner became one of the first to call for a change at the top of the democratic ticket. In fact, writing on social media -- quote -- "It's time to stop effing around. If the convicted felon wins, we lose our democracy. Joe Biden has effectively served us with honor, decency, and dignity. It's time for Joe Biden to step down."

Now, a few weeks later, came this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Nothing can come in the way of saving our democracy. That includes personal ambition. So, I've decided the best way forward is to pass the torch to a new generation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: And now, Hollywood A-listers are rushing to embrace Kamala Harris, including my next guest, filmmaker Rob Reiner. Welcome to "Laura Coates Live." Glad to have you here. Thank you.

ROB REINER, DIRECTOR: Thanks for having me, Laura.

COATES: You know, you spoke out pretty early and you continued to make the case it wasn't a one off until the president's -- really, his final decision. And here we are. He has officially stepped aside. Kamala is the top of the ticket. How do you feel about it now?

REINER: Well, I mean, you can see the party is completely energized. Everybody's coalescing around Kamala as well. They should. I mean, she is completely qualified. She's -- she's the energy that we needed. I mean, we were in a situation. This is not to take anything away from Joe Biden.

I mean, I love Joe Biden. He was a very consequential president. He got us out of the ditch that Donald Trump put us in. And he righted the ship. He saved our democracy. And he's doing the most selfless thing he can possibly do to make sure we continue to save the democracy and don't destroy 250 years of self-rule. And he has passed the torch to somebody who understands how this all works and will respect the rule of law and the Constitution.

So, we're going to win. We're going to win now. It went from a referendum on Joe Biden to now it's a referendum on Donald Trump. And Donald Trump, we know, is a criminal. He's a convicted felon 34 times.

COATES: Hmm.

REINER: And we've got a great prosecutor who's going to prosecute this case against.

COATES: You know, there are those who are accusing Democrats now, in spite of all that you've described, as being those who are enabling a coronation that's led by donors, that's led by D.C. or Hollywood elites. Do you think that Harris's ascension to that top of the ticket, given all the context at stake here, is, as some Republicans describe, anti-democratic?

REINER: No, of course not. I mean, it's the system we have. I mean, you have the presumptive nominee, which was the president of the United States, stepping down, and then it's up -- he releases his delegates. It's up to the delegates to decide who they want to vote for. And you had a very wonderful, seamless transition where you had all the delegates starting to coalesce around Kamala. You had House members, Senate members, donors, everybody coalescing immediately around Kamala. So, it's not undemocratic at all. It's part of the delegate rules. You can look it up.

COATES: But you know what has started, even though there not the confetti falling on one's shoulders, Rob? It has only been a few days since she has been on the top of this ticket. We have seen attacks that perhaps, sadly, were predictable, and yet they are vile. They're calling her a D.E.I. hire. There are those who are being misogynistic. There are those who are degrading her in any number of ways, trying to suggest that she is not the professional or the vice president that we know that she is.

You're known for so much in terms of fictionalizing the world around us. But in this case, it's even ugly if this were fictional. What do you see --

REINER: Yeah.

COATES: -- as the way to address what's going on right now?

REINER: You know something? You don't have to address it. This is desperation on their part. They are facing a formidable opponent, and they don't know what to do.

[23:40:01]

You know, Bill Goldman, an old friend of mine who passed away a number of years ago, said they don't know whether to go to the bathroom or wind their watch. They're in big trouble. They know it, and they're desperately starting to attack Kamala in the most ridiculous ways. Her lab, the fact that she didn't bear children. It's ridiculous. And it's all going to backfire. It's all going to backfire because we are coalesced now, and we're going to beat this guy.

We have a great candidate in Kamala Harris. I know her very well. I've known her for a long time. She was right there on the forefront of marriage equality, which I had something to do with here in California and around the country. She married the first same-sex couple after we defeated and knocked down Prop 8. So, I know her very well. She's a great prosecutor, she's intelligent, she's committed, she's passionate, she's a fun person, she's human, and she respects the rule of law. So, they can do whatever they want. It's not going to help.

COATES: Let me ask you, Rob. You know her so well. Who could be her partner, not in crime, but in law, of course, as her vice-presidential running mate?

REINER: Well, she has a lot of good choices. I particularly personally like Mark Kelly a lot.

COATES: Hmm.

REINER: An astronaut, a former military guy, a senator from Arizona, a state that is in play. And I think all of those combinations of things would be a perfect combination. Now, obviously, she has to pick somebody who she feels comfortable with. That's the first choice. And somebody that she believes, God forbid something should happen to her, could step in and become president. So, all of those things have to be considered. But I think she has a lot of great choices.

COATES: I got to tell you, it's almost at a whiplash pace of how things are going right now. We'll see what happens all the way. We're about 100 days away now from the presidential election, if you can believe that. Rob Reiner, thank you so much for joining.

REINER: Thanks for having me.

COATES: Up next, his conviction was overturned, overturned, and he was about to walk free. Then the Missouri Supreme Court stepped in. And now, Christopher Dunn is still in prison despite being deemed innocent. We'll tell you his story and speak with his wife after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:46:48]

COATES: On this program, we highlight stories of the exonerated. But tonight, the Missouri Supreme Court has stepped in to keep an exonerated man in prison, just as he was about to walk free.

Christopher Dunn was convicted of first-degree murder for the shooting of 15-year-old Ricco Rogers in 1990. The 1991 conviction was largely based on testimony of two boys who identified Dunn as the shooter. But in 2018, they recanted, saying their testimony had been coerced.

After reviewing Dunn's case, the St. Louis Circuit attorney filed a motion earlier this year to vacate the guilty verdict. And on Monday, a judge concluded that -- quote -- "in light of new evidence, no juror, acting reasonably, would have voted to find Dunn guilty of these crimes beyond a reasonable doubt." He overturned Dunn's conviction and ordered his immediate release.

But Missouri Attorney General Andrew Bailey is fighting that order. He issued an appeal and told the Department of Corrections to keep Dunn in jail until the appeal ends. Now, the judge has pushed back. And last night, just as the prison was processing the release paperwork for Dunn, the state Supreme Court issued a stay that put his freedom on hold. His wife, Kira Dunn, was actually on her way to pick him up when she learned that her husband would not be coming home.

She joins me now, along with Dunn's attorney from the Midwest Innocence Project, Tricia Rojo Bushnell. Thank you both for joining me. This is unbelievable and unimaginable. Think about what is happening at this juncture. Kira, let me begin with you and just -- you were on your way to pick up your husband when you got the news. Tell me, what were you feeling in that moment when you heard that he wasn't, in fact, going to be released?

KIRA DUNN, WIFE OF CHRISTOPHER DUNN: I was five minutes away, yes, when I got the call, and I immediately knew from the tone that it was not good. I just drove the rest of the way numb after I heard the news and arrived to a very subdued group of people who had already gathered there. It was supposed to be a time of celebration, of welcoming my husband home after 34 years of wrongful conviction and incarceration, and it just turned into -- has to be one of the saddest days of my life.

COATES: You've actually spoken to Christopher since this happened. How is he holding up through all of this?

DUNN: Chris is the most resilient person I've ever met. Even so, this was a really tough one. This hit him very hard. He was literally 50 feet away from the parking lot and was dressed in his civilian clothing that we'd prepared and picked out months before. He was doing a final signature and had, in the meantime, gotten rid of all his property, either given it away or he'd actually thrown away his toothbrush just a few moments before, knowing he wouldn't need that toothbrush anymore.

[23:50:01]

And he had to walk right back in, take off his civilian clothing, put on another prison uniform, and go back to his cell, 50 feet from freedom.

COATES: Fifty feet from freedom, Tricia. I cannot imagine. I've spoken to far too many people who have been exonerated, and they will always tell me that they didn't believe it was real until they were home. And even then, they wondered if it would stick. And to know that someone would have had what I presume is that level of anxiety and concern, and it not to be the case that they were free -- I mean, the Missouri attorney general, Andrew Bailey, he appealed the ruling that would free Dunn. Is there any legal basis to his appeal?

TRICIA ROJO BUSHNELL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MIDWEST INNOCENCE PROJECT: So, our position is no. We don't believe that he, the attorney general, has any role in or the ability to appeal a court's decision on a prosecutor's motion to overturn a conviction.

So, this ability for a prosecutor to file a motion saying, I think that my office, right, made a mistake, that this person is actually innocent, is fairly new in Missouri. It's a law that was passed in 2021. It has been used to free two other individuals since then, Kevin Strickland and Lamar Johnson. And this is now the third time that that has happened. It's the first time the attorney general has contended they have the right to appeal. The circuit court disagreed.

So, what actually happened on Monday, when that order came down from the judge overturning his conviction and requesting his immediate release, that order should have been followed. But the attorney general directed the prison not to follow it. And we had emergency proceedings yesterday where that judge then said, you have to follow this order. If the warden doesn't follow this order, he will be held in contempt. And he was directed to release him by 6:00 when that special appeal was made to the Missouri Supreme Court.

The Missouri Supreme Court's stay is now looking at the question of, does the attorney general actually have the right to appeal? We will have additional briefing going into tomorrow and Monday. But I think the question that we all have is, why would you appeal this finding?

COATES: Hmm.

ROJO BUSHNELL: This is actually not even the first court to find that no juror would convict Chris. It's actually the second. But the first court didn't have any ability to release him because in Missouri, it's the only state in the country where innocence isn't a reason to get out of prison unless someone was sentenced to death, and Chris was not sentenced to death.

COATES: That's an unbelievable notion to me, that even the innocent, knowing innocent, would remain in prison, except if they were sentenced to death. What do you think is the motivation behind why Bailey, who, frankly, I think has a history of trying to appeal overturned convictions, why is he pushing to keep Dunn behind bars?

ROJO BUSHNELL: I mean, that is the question I think all of us have. What purpose does this serve? Certainly not serving the Missouri taxpayers. What does it get us?

(LAUGHTER)

It keeps the expense of an innocent person being in prison. And the time, money, and resources to litigate these cases is extensive, and this is what we're spending our state resources on. COATES: Kira, you actually met him while he was incarcerated, and he has never been free since you have known him. What would it mean to have him home, to have your husband beside you, especially knowing that he didn't even commit the crime that he was convicted for?

DUNN: It would mean everything to me and to our family. Chris has had so much taken from him. And he wants the simple things, just to be able to open and close a door as he wishes, to be able to choose the temperature of his shower water, to be able to use a cell phone for the first time, things that we all take for granted.

It would mean that someone who has been through so, so much, really more than anyone could ever restore to him, right, 34 years, there's really no way to make that up. But I and Chris's family intend to try our very best to somehow make up for the loss that he suffered, as you said, when he didn't even commit a crime in the first place.

COATES: Thirty-four years and 50 feet from freedom. Thank you both. We will continue to follow this story. I appreciate your time.

ROJO BUSHNELL: Thank you.

DUNN: Thank you so much.

COATES: Please let Chris know that we are thinking about his journey. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:58:46]

COATES: Well, in the summer of 1996, all eyes were on the Centennial Olympics in Atlanta, Georgia. And about a week after opening ceremonies on July 27, there was an explosion in Centennial Olympic Park. It claimed the lives of two people and injured more than 100. Over the next 18 months, several more bombings occurred, leading investigators to suspect there was serial bombers at work.

The CNN special, "How It Really Happened: The Atlanta Olympic Bombing," takes a deeper look at these events. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: At approximately 1:25 a.m. this morning, an explosive device detonated in the Centennial Park downtown. At this point, we understand that we have 110 injured and two people who have died.

At approximately 1:00 a.m. also, the Atlanta Police Department received a 911 call. The individual is, we believe, a white male with an indistinguishable accent.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): There is a bomb in Centennial Park. You have 30 minutes.

[00:00:00]

WOODY JOHNSON, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT, FBI: The bomb had gone off within 15 or 20 minutes of the call. Particularly when it went off early.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Tune in the two-hour special, "How It Really Happened: The Atlanta Olympic Bombing," airs Saturday at 9 p.m. Eastern. Thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" starts right now.