Return to Transcripts main page

Laura Coates Live

Trump Questions Harris's Racial Identity; Iran Orders Revenge Attack Against Israel; Christopher Dunn Is Exonerated After 34 Years In Prison. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired July 31, 2024 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's how you meet people where they are. But I will say, it's not like she just jumped on the bandwagon because now the vice president is at the top of ticket. She has been an advocate on abortion rights. Quavo has been an advocate for gun violence prevention. They're citizens, too. They get to have a voice, and this is how they want to show up and engage in democracy. And I love --

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: It's an interesting -- it's important -- we're not going to debate the twerking part of this at all, but I'm just saying, the tapping into the culture is definitely something that is happening now that was not happening about a month ago.

Everyone, thank you so much for being here at the table, and thank you for watching at home. "NewsNight: State of the Race" is done. "Laura Coates Live," though, starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Where do I begin tonight? You know what? I'm holding in my hand two books. One is "The Art of the Deal" and the other written by American businessman Dale Carnegie, "How to Win Friends and Influence People." Now, this one promises you can go after the job you want and you can get it. You can take the job you have and improve it. You can take any situation and make it work for you. How, you might ask? Well it tells you there are six ways to make people like you, 12 ways to win people over, nine ways to change people without arousing resentment. Added up, that's 27 rules to follow to try to get it right.

Well, guess how many Donald Trump followed today in front of the National Association of Black Journalists. Yeah. Let's see how he did with some of the most famous of the principles. Let's go into it. One, do not criticize, condemn or complain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You don't even say hello, how are you? Are you with ABC? Because I think they're a fake news network, a terrible network.

(LAUGHTER)

You were half an hour late. Just so we understand, I have too much respect for you to be late. They couldn't get their equipment working or something was wrong.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Mr. President --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well the complaints, they kept coming and coming. So, we're going to put an "X" for that particular principle. Let's go to another one. Principle number two, remember their name.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Kamala and Kamala.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Definitely didn't follow that principle. "X." And by the way, in a previous rally, he said he doesn't care less if he mispronounces her name. Let's move on to principle number three: Be quick to acknowledge your own mistakes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER AND CAMPAIGN CORRESPONDENT: You have told four congresswomen of color who were American citizens to go back to where they came from. You have used words like animal and rabbit to describe black district attorneys. You've attacked Black journalists, calling them a loser, saying the questions that they ask are -- quote -- "stupid and racist." You've had dinner with a white supremacist at your Mar-a-Lago resort. So, my question, sir, now that you are asking Black supporters to vote for you, why should Black voters trust you after you have used language like that?

TRUMP: Well, first of all, I don't think I've ever been asked a question so -- in such a horrible manner, a first question.

(APPLAUSE)

And I think it's disgraceful that I came here in good spirit. I love the Black population of this country. I've done so much for the Black population of this country, including employment, including opportunity zones with Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, which is one of the greatest programs ever for Black workers and Black entrepreneurs. I've done so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Ah, the old focus on the way you said it, not what you said routine. I got to give two Xs for the deflection aspect of his answer. Principle number four -- oh, this is a good one -- have others believe your conclusion is their own conclusion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT: Do you believe that Vice President Kamala Harris is only on the ticket because she is a Black woman? TRUMP: Well, I can say, no, I think it's maybe a little bit different. So, I've known her a long time indirectly, not directly very much, and she was always of Indian heritage, and she was only promoting Indian heritage. I didn't know she was Black until a number of years ago when she happened to turned Black, and now she wants to be known as Black.

(APPLAUSE)

So, I don't know, is she Indian or is she Black?

SCOTT: She is always identified as a Black woman.

TRUMP: But you know what? I respect either one. I respect either one, but she obviously doesn't, because she was Indian all the way, and then all of a sudden, she made a turn and she went -- she became a Black person.

SCOTT: Just to be clear, sir, do you believe that she is --

TRUMP: And I think -- I think somebody should look into that, too, when you ask and continue in a very hostile, nasty tone.

SCOTT: It's a direct question, sir. Do you believe that Vice President Kamala Harris is a DEI hire, as some Republicans have said?

[23:05:00]

TRUMP: I really don't know. I mean, I really don't know. Could be, could be. There are some and there are plenty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Hold on, I'm looking in the back. Is there a way that one can turn Black? Hold on, is it in this book? Neither. Huh. I guess birtherism wasn't enough of an unfounded rabbit hole preoccupation. It detracted from the real issues Americans care about. Yeah, give a big "X" for that one and also for thinking that anyone in that room would have reached your same conclusion. We're almost there. Last one of the big ones, aha, principle number five: Make people feel important, and do it sincerely.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I will tell you that coming -- coming from the border are millions and millions of people that happen to be taking Black jobs. You had the best --

SCOTT: What exactly is a Black job, sir?

TRUMP: A Black job is anybody that has a job. That's what it is. Anybody that has a job.

SCOTT: All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: Does that mean he has a Black job? Hmm. Hey, how about I get a point for actually having a Black job? "X" for him, though. So, overall, womp-womp when it comes to this book for him, not too great. Well, there's always the other one, "The Art of the Deal." But maybe choosing between both, maybe next time, you just read the room or just maybe you focus on the policy differences where you could perhaps make a convincing case. I don't know, a room full of journalists who want to report on the things you've said that could have a direct line to the electorate that votes in what, 97 days?

Now, Harris doesn't seem bothered by it all. When she reacted to it, she was in a room full of Black sororities, who she simply said, too, the American people deserve better.

Well, I want to bring in CNN political commentator Van Jones, Washington correspondent for "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution," Tia Mitchell. She currently serves as chair of the political task force for the National Association of Black Journalists. Also joining us, former executive director of the National Diversity Coalition for Trump, Bruce LeVell, and former senior advisor to Donald Trump, Omarosa Manigault Newman. She is the author of "Unhinged."

Glad to have all of you here, particularly for Laura Coates's book club night. Tia, let me begin with you for a moment here because --

(LAUGHTER)

-- Tia, you helped organize today's event, and you have been at the receiving end of a lot of criticism. I saw your tweets and the tweet threads, and you said that you are not okay in this moment. And I want to give you an opportunity as my respected friend and colleague to speak to the experience that you have had based on the decision to have him attend and speak at this event.

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: So, I will say I'm doing much better.

COATES: Good.

MITCHELL: Thank you for asking. Thank you for your concern. But, you know, there was just a lot of negative energy sent my way because I chose to publicly identify myself as someone who helped to organize today's event, and I also chose to publicly say that I stood behind the decision to invite President Trump, former President Trump, possibly future President Trump, to address the National Association of Black Journalists.

But to ask -- you know, you asked kind of how I'm feeling about it all. I come back to I am trying to do the work of creating opportunities for Black journalists, for increasing the pipeline of Black journalists, for creating exposure to Black journalists and Black journalism. And that's what NABJ is about.

And when we have newsmaker plenaries like this, we are giving the journalists in the audience a chance to hear directly from a notable figure that many of them might not have ever had an opportunity to see in person. And again, that's part of our mission. We do it every convention year. And then every four years, we focus on the candidates for president.

And I think it's important. I think I understand Trump is a different type of political figure, one we've never seen before. But I think that makes it even more important, that we're aware of the stakes. And quite frankly, the questions that were asked today by those three Black women journalists, that's a different experience than I think Trump has ever had. And that's important, too, if he's going to lead this nation.

COATES: Tia, well said. And, frankly, many of the questions that were asked, if not all, had been on the minds of journalists all across the country, all across the globe, and they were asked at this event in Chicago for the National Association of Black Journalists.

Let me turn to you, Bruce, because Trump has made headlines once again. I can't think of an opportunity when he has not made headlines. But one of the big issues is that he was challenging the racial identity of Vice President Kamala Harris.

[23:10:00]

And I wonder, from your perspective, why would that be the vehicle to attack her identity when there could possibly be policy differences that he could illuminate for the betterment of his own campaign?

BRUCE LEVELL, FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL DIVERSITY COALITION FOR TRUMP: Yeah, well, thanks for having me. Good afternoon -- good evening, should I say. Listen, I -- I look at it in this perspective -- and I just want to shout out to Ken Lemon, the president of NABJ, for, you know, putting on this great event and, you know, giving kudos to everyone that was involved, kudos to Tia in putting this together.

I think it's important. I've been a frequent visitor of the Atlanta Association of Black Journalism here in Atlanta, and I have family that have benefited off of that program because, let's be frank, I'm the oldest person on this panel, I remember the 80s, it was the true conduit to get through to be a journalist, to get, you know, intern jobs here at CNN and other places.

So, to answer your question as it relates to that -- you know, we all know when, you know, Vice President Kamala Harris ran for, you know, attorney general, you know, and you can check me on this, news outlets said she's the first Indian American. She did run as Indian American, okay. And then she was chosen for the vice president nominee as the candidate for Joe Biden. And he was told that you will get a Black woman. So, then, she says, well, here is a Black woman.

So, in all fairness, when she asked that question to President Trump, that's a valid, you know, answer because that's based on her, where she was in her life, what she chose to be at that time. So, that's where that answer comes in. So, she's the one that did this.

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: Hold on, one second, I want to just make clear, I know we're on this panel --

LEVELL: But in my mind --

COATES: Excuse me.

LEVELL: But --

COATES: Excuse me, sir. Do not over talk me.

LEVELL: No, no, no.

COATES: No, no, no. I'm going to give you the opportunity to speak. Excuse me.

LEVELL: Okay.

COATES: Do not over talk me on my program. I am trying to give --

LEVELL: Somebody else --

COATES: That's why, if you would allow me to speak, I would clarify the opportunities for each of you on the panel to have a chance to speak and have your own point heard to an audience who's eager and speaking with bated breath to hear your opinion. But you cannot talk over each other. I want everyone to hear. So, when I hear -- you hear this voice or this ding-ding-ding of the Laura Coates sound, please stop.

Van, let me go to you because you were reacting to what was being said, and I want you to have a chance to react to this thought that Kamala Harris only lately revealed herself as a Black woman.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, I'm a Californian. I voted for her as district attorney, I voted for her as attorney general, I voted for her for Senate, vice president. I'll vote for her as president. And she was Black in every election. So, I'm not quite sure what this room -- there may have been some people in the business press who were confused or in the Bay Area, Silicon Valley press that was confused, but nobody in California was confused.

I just -- but I do want to speak to what Trump was doing today. He was doing three things. He was trying to steal, dampen, and divide. He was trying to steal attention from Kamala Harris because she has just been running over him and getting all the attention, which he can't stand. And so, by showing up there, he got attention. We're talking about him and not her. So, for the first time in about, you know, a week and a half, he's now the subject. He loves that.

He's also trying to dampen enthusiasm for Black voters by raising these questions. Is she really Black? Is she really one of you? She tells other people she's not. That's all trying to dampen Black enthusiasm because the country is just in love with Kamala Harris. This Kamala mania is taking over. He's trying to figure out a way to dampen that.

The last thing he's trying to do is to divide. His main attack was trying to divide Black people from immigrants and trying to throw Kamala in that same bucket as being an immigrant, she's not one of you. So, he's stealing, he's dampening, he's dividing. In other words, he's the same old, negative Donald Trump facing a rising sun of Kamala Harris who's bringing joy and unity and excitement to this country. And he's terrified. And what you saw was an old weak -- an old weak fading brand struggling for attention today and losing ground.

COATES: Omarosa, I want to get you back in, and I want you to respond as well, Bruce, to this point.

OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO DONALD TRUMP: Yeah.

COATES: I do want to play a clip from back in 2019 which predated, by the way, this discussion of when she announced her heritage. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm Black.

UNKNOWN: Yes.

HARRIS: And I'm proud of being Black.

UNKNOWN: I believe you.

HARRIS: And I was born Black. I will die black. And I'm proud of being Black. And I'm not going to make any excuses for anybody because they don't understand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANIGAULT NEWMAN: That's right.

COATES: Omarosa, I wonder what your reaction has been to this statement that she is only pandering for political benefit.

MANIGAULT NEWMAN: Well, I think I probably know Donald better than anyone on this panel. Forgive me if anyone thinks differently. But I recall in his book, "The Art of the Deal," Laura, when Donald Trump identified himself as Swedish, right?

[23:15:00]

Because he didn't want to acknowledge that his father was German and his mother was Irish, and he thought that that would play better to those who were patronizing his businesses. So, can we call the question his past of self-identifying as first Swedish, then German, and then Irish whenever it's convenient? Donald doesn't know the difference between ancestry and race. He doesn't want to know the differences nor does he understand the nuances of how people self- identify. And so, I believe that that's disqualifying for him. And when he mispronounces her name, Laura, he does it as a slur. He does it intentionally to harm her, to make people see the otherness of Kamala Harris. And so, I pose the question to Bruce. When he says, oh, at some point she identified as this, and at some point, she identified as this, are you going to hold Donald Trump to the fire for identifying himself as Sweden -- Swedish even though he has no Swedish roots in his bestselling book, "The Art of the Deal," Bruce?

COATES: Bruce, you're happy -- welcome to respond. You have a copy of the book. I'm going to try to find the passage.

LEVELL: Look, I don't know about that, but this is all I know.

MANIGAULT NEWMAN: Or is there a double standard?

LEVELL: The ABC reporter asked a specific question, and it is true, and Van, you know this from California, she did say identify as Indian American. Now, I don't -- listen, I don't really care one way or the other. I know President Trump didn't care, but the specific question was asked. And then why did Charlamagne tha God ask that specific question? Because he's asking the same thing. Okay, which one is it? Well, you know, are you running -- are you running as a Black American? Are you running as an Indian American? That's why Charlamagne asked that question.

JONES: Can I answer the question?

LEVELL: But no one cares.

COATES: Bruce, must it be an either or?

LEVELL: Wait a second.

COATES: Must it be an either or, Bruce?

LEVELL: Wait a minute. Can I finish?

COATES: Yes, you can finish answering my question. Must it be an either or, to your point? Must it be?

LEVELL: You know, it doesn't matter. But she asked the question, where did it come from? And listen, Biden said when he was running, I'm going to pick a Black woman, I'm going to pick a Black Supreme Court. So, when you want to talk about identity politics and pandering, I mean, let's go deep into this. But to ask a question, he answered it truthfully. And guys, man, you know this man. You're from California. You know she used that to her advantage. And that's cool. Who cares? But that's the -- that's the correct answer. She benefited by being Indian American, she won as attorney general, and then she benefited by being a Black woman and being chosen as the V.P. So, what? And that's -- that's fair.

COATES: Tia, what's your response?

MITCHELL: I a couple of things. Number one, I do think it's just important for us to acknowledge that people can be both a Black American and an Indian American. If you have one parent who is of Indian descent and another parent who is of Jamaican Black -- Jamaican descent, I think it's -- I think we need to be clear that she has always identified as both.

And she went to a Black college and pledged a Black sorority when she was in her either late teens or early 20s. This is not something that she just came up all of a sudden and said, by the way, I'm Black.

And I just think we need to be just really clear about that because we want to deal in the truth. And I think of -- the wider conversation is something that the Trump-Vance campaign is really, I think, having a hard time dealing with, is dealing with what modern families look like. People can be of mixed race, multiple races in their families. People might not have children. There might be blended families. There might be LGBTQ families. That is what America is starting to look like.

And when former President Trump appears that he doesn't really understand that intersectionality of someone being mixed race, it comes across that he's out of touch of what modern American families can look like. And I think it's really something that the Trump-Vance campaign is really going to have to deal with or they're going to lose people.

COATES: Vance, I see your eyes. Van, I know you want to interject. And Omarosa, I'll give you a last word as well. Go ahead.

JONES: I just want to say, you can -- you can be -- you can be Black, you can be an immigrant, you can be an Indian, you can be a female, and you can be president United States. And she's about to be all those things. And that's -- that's why Donald Trump is scared. That's why we're talking about this foolishness instead of talking about the fact that she's not -- she stole immigration from him today, tan a brilliant ad taking his main issue away from him. She is on a path to victory. And Donald Trump is talking foolishness as usual.

COATES: Bruce, do you see it that way, really quick?

LEVELL: No. I see her as devastating our country and letting in -- being the border czar, letting in tens of millions of illegal immigrants flooding our school system, especially in Black culture and right here in Atlanta. So, yeah, you're right, she has brought the immigrant issue because she has allowed it to open the flood -- the gates to kill jobs, yes, and to kill schools in Chicago, Oakland, and many other cities.

[23:20:03]

So, yeah, you are 100% right, she has -- she has robbed it and stole it and opened the gates and kill this economy. Yes, I agree with you.

COATES: Omarosa, I'll give you the final word. Quick.

MANIGAULT NEWMAN: Laura, listen, Vice President Kamala Harris has Donald Trump on the ropes. I'm saying it here and now on CNN. He will never debate her because he's scared of her, because he knows that she will clean the floor, mop the floor with him. And so, the bottom line is today was about distraction. It was not about getting votes. He knew that those folks in the room would hold him to account, and so he distracted by attacking, insulting, and going below the belt. That's what he did. That's what he's about. And people saw clearly that Donald Trump should never get anywhere close to the Oval Office ever again.

COATES: Call me a voter, but I like to hear about the issues. Thank you, everyone, so much for joining me. It's great to hear from all of you.

LEVELL: Thanks.

COATES: Well, Vice President Kamala Harris was responding to Donald Trump tonight. She wasn't having any of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: And let me just say, the American people deserve better. The American people deserve better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: We've got a guest tonight who says he knows what the American people deserve. Georgia Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock is here with me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:25:27]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: This afternoon, Donald Trump spoke at the annual meeting of the National Association of Black Journalists. And it was the same old show.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Vice President Kamala Harris's succinct response to Donald Trump's off the rails interview at the National Association of Black Journalists annual convention earlier today, the same place where he falsely claimed the vice president -- I think the phrase was happened to turned Black.

For more reaction, I want to bring in Democratic senator from Georgia, Reverend Raphael Warnock. Senator, a pleasure to have you with us today. I have to know your reaction to some of the statements. In fact, many of them that Donald Trump was speaking.

SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): Sure.

COATES: It was a reminder of, in many ways, what that administration was like. Tell me about your reaction.

WARNOCK: That's right. And look, as disappointing as it is to hear this, if it's anything, it's certainly not surprising. This is who Donald Trump is. And he reminds us time and time again, the only thing he knows is the politics of division and hatred. And this is what we're confronted with again.

And he doesn't even recognize the sad irony of his remark. In a real sense, Kamala Harris's story is an iteration of the American story, the diversity that is among us and often within us. And that -- that is the American story. Out of many, one, he probably was on them. And she -- she carries that literally in her veins. And in that sense, he doesn't know who we are. And if you don't know us, you can't represent us. You certainly can't lead us.

COATES: There are many people who watch that and thought, is he fixated on -- quote, unquote -- "what she is as opposed to what she stands for" as an approach for his campaign? It struck me as an odd departure from a policy focus opportunity that he could have had in front of a roomful of noted journalists.

WARNOCK: Well, the man has no agenda. He has no vision. And so, people who have no vision, traffic and division, they don't know how to lead us, and so they're focused on dividing us.

We should not forget how Donald Trump entered into the world of politics in the first place. Remember, it was literally challenging the birth certificate of Barack Obama. He literally rode in on division even before he announced his -- his candidacy, and then he came down that -- that escalator, and later on as he announced that he was running for the presidency.

And he spent all of his time trying to convince each of us to be afraid of -- of -- of other people who are neighbors, to be afraid of our neighbors. And we should always be afraid of politicians who tell us to be afraid of our neighbors. We should be worry of those politicians at the debate saying that, you know, these immigrants are coming across the border, taking Black jobs.

So, whether it's trying to separate brown people from Black people, trying to somehow lift up part of Kamala Harris's identity over against the other part, as if she has to choose, as if we have to choose between who we embrace. I mean, it's a very narrow, bigoted, short-sighted vision. It's who we -- it's who he is. And I think the more we're reminded of it, the more we know what's at stake, the very soul of our country.

COATES: You know, one of the familiar messages and conversations that we've had for, frankly, decades, if not even more intensely in recent years, has been the issue of police brutality, officer-involved shootings, and the loss of life at the hands of law enforcement. And a recent example is this tragic death of Sonya Massey. And we're all been increasingly familiar. I've interviewed her father. It's just heartbreaking to think, and with the body camera footage coming out as well.

I want to play for you a little bit about what Trump said on the topic of whether officers should enjoy immunity. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't know the exact case, but I saw something, and it didn't look -- it didn't look good to me. It didn't look good to me. Are you talking with the water? Right?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yeah. Well, police --

TRUMP: It didn't --

UNKNOWN: I mean, police unions are not backing this person either.

[23:30:01]

TRUMP: Okay.

UNKNOWN: But again, why would --

TRUMP: They're going -- they're going to be charging the officer. I guess they're charging the officer.

UNKNOWN: So why should he receive immunity?

TRUMP: Well, he might not. I mean, it depends. It depends on what happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Some are shocked that there wasn't a more full-throated response in the wake of the fact that this is somebody who has been charged, that, as she mentioned, the police unions are not behind him, although he has said that he feared for his life. Watching the body cam footage, it's incredulous to imagine how. What do you make of his response?

WARNOCK: Well, first of all, what happened to this young woman, Sonya Massey, is -- it's just tragic and heart-wrenching and heart-breaking. I've seen this, you know, as a pastor.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WARNOCK: I've presided over the funerals of first persons who've experienced this or this kind of tragedy. And we saw Donald Trump when he was president. We saw how he responded in the wake of George Floyd's killing, this tragic death, which happened at the hands of those sworn to protect and who, by the way, don't represent the lion's share of police officers. I've got them in my church. They're in our community. They do their job. But we have this this ongoing tragedy in America.

And when he was president, Donald Trump responded to the protesters by literally marching out of the White House and trampling over people and holding the Bible. I don't know what that message was all about. He should have opened up that Bible where it says, love your neighbor as yourself, where it says, and as much as you've done it unto the least of these, you've done it also unto me. This is who he is.

And the choice, the stark choice between these two candidates is more than obvious. You literally have a criminal running against somebody who has spent much of her career prosecuting criminals. COATES: I do want to ask you, you touched on this point, a comment made by Trump, doubling down or trying to explain the so-called Black jobs comment. You described the pitting against brown and Black people. Frankly, this is a tale historically as old as America and the idea of trying to alienate and create division among those who have been similarly situated in America. Talk to me about what you think that messaging will do in a place like Georgia where, frankly, all eyes remain.

WARNOCK: Well, it won't work. You see me sitting in this chair as a United States senator representing the great state of Georgia, and it is a multiracial coalition of conscience that placed me there.

Red, yellow, brown, Black and white. These are the folks who poured out into our streets responding to the tragedy of George Floyd. These -- these are the folks of multigenerational who have a vision of America that embraces all of us. They believe in an America where a child's outcome is not based on their parents' income, where there's a recognition that God is an equal opportunity employer, that there is genius and talent and brilliance all over the country, all over town on both sides of the track. That is my America.

COATES: Well, about 97 days to go, far less. We talk about early voting. Senator, always a pleasure to have you here. Thank you.

WARNOCK: Thank you very much.

COATES: Well, the Middle East and the U.S. are on edge after the assassination of a top Hamas political leader in Tehran. Tonight, the new report that says Iran has ordered a direct attack against Israel. We got that reporting next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:37:56]

COATES: Well, the assassination of Hamas's political leader is threatening to plunge a region already on edge into even further chaos. Tonight, "The New York Times" is reporting Iran's Supreme Leader is ordering a direct attack on Israel. Hamas and Iran are blaming Israel for killing Hamas's political leader in an overnight strike in Iran's capital, Tehran. He was meeting with the new Iranian president just hours before his death. And today, he was in a casket beside his own bodyguard. Israel has not confirmed or denied its own involvement.

But Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says that his country has delivered crushing blows to its enemies in just the last few days. One of those blows was against the Iranian-backed proxy Hezbollah. Israel killed that group's senior most military commander in a strike in Beirut hours before the assassination in Tehran.

I want to bring in retired Brigadier General Steve Anderson and Jamil Jaffer, who was associate White House counsel to President George W. Bush, handling national security issues. Thank you both for being here, particularly at this time. General, let me begin with you because the "Times" is reporting about Iran's supreme leader ordering a direct attack against Israel. Do you expect that response? What might that look like?

BRIG. GEN. STEVE ANDERSON, RETIRED BRIGADIER GENERAL, U.S. ARMY: Well, I think that we saw back in April about 300 missiles were launched from Iraq -- Iran, rather, that took quite a while to get to Israel. So, I think the next time that they do this, they're going to launch it from a place much closer to Israel like Lebanon or maybe Iraq or Syria.

But I would be really most concerned, I think, about an indirect attack on a soft target. I think that they're going to be looking at terrorist-type activity. I think that that's probably the most effective way to make their point. I just think the Israelis are too strong to fight, you know, toe to toe. I think that they're going to look at some kind of a soft target.

And I would also look at a terrorist attack, perhaps even in the United States, because we have supported Israel every step of the way. They know that, and they want to make us pay for it.

[23:40:00]

COATES: Are you suggesting that -- that there could be something like that happening on American soil?

ANDERSON: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's something that we should be thinking about. I'd be most concerned probably with U.S. troops already stationed in the region. We have troops in Syria. We have troops in Qatar. We have troops out in the Med, in the Red Sea. And of course, we had an Al Udeid Air Base, places like that. Our American soldiers over there are exposed and that would, of course, put them in extreme danger right now. But I would not rule out some kind of attack in the United States.

COATES: God bless and protect our troops. Absolutely. My goodness. Thinking about what that response is. Jamil, based on what the general is saying, it makes sense. Perhaps Secretary of State Antony Blinken is urging Qatar to appeal not only to Iran, but also to Hezbollah. Secretary of Defense Austin is also urging for calm. How does this even complicate the U.S.'s position in this entirety?

JAMIL JAFFER, FORMER ASSOCIATE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL TO GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, look, in a lot of ways, it's pretty straightforward, right? Israel was attacked on October 7th. Eleven hundred people -- plus people were killed, 250 people kidnapped, some Americans still being held hostage in Gaza. If you have an opportunity to take out the leader of the group that directed that attack, you take it, you take it every time, and the United States should back that up.

At the same time, taking that shot in Iran and Tehran is really provocative, but makes a point, because at the end of the day, who paid for those attacks? Iran. Who has been paying for the Hezbollah rocket attacks on Israel? Iran. Who has been paying for the Red Sea attacks by the Houthis against international shipping? Iran. So, let's be honest, Iran got what it deserved with an attack in Tehran and a killing of one of its proxy leaders. At the end of the day, that's the bottom line. And so, whoever else can get them on board with understanding if they keep doing this, this is going to keep happening? And so, they shouldn't be surprised, and they shouldn't respond because this is their own making.

COATES: On that part of strength and expectation, I do wonder if Iran, given that somebody was killed in their own capital, that they will factor that into their response to have the perceived foreign bravado.

ANDERSON: Well, they've got to think twice about that because the Israelis have shown that they have the ability to conduct precision strikes in the middle of Tehran. They took out Haniyeh (ph). They can also take out senior leaders in Iranian leadership, too.

I mean, the fact that they were to pull this off is absolutely stunning, Laura. You know, a thousand miles away, to be able to penetrate airspace, no matter how they launch the attack, be it locally or from a long-distance using precision-guided munitions or some kind of a drone attack, no matter how they did it, the fact that they were able to pull this off is absolutely stunning. It puts everybody on notice in that region that Israel has the capability to take them out.

COATES: All of our eyes and minds are, of course, on the hostages and the civilians who are in the wake of all of this. Thank you both so much, Steve Anderson, Jamil Jaffer.

Ahead, he was in prison for 34 years for a murder that he did not commit, and then spent another week to add insult to injury behind bars after his conviction was overturned. Now, the man you see there smiling, Christopher Dunn, he is finally free, and he joins me next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER DUNN, EXONERATED AFTER 34 YEARS IN PRISON FOR MURDER HE DID NOT COMMITT: For those who participated in my prosecution, I forgive you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:47:25]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SCREAMS)

COATES: Well, tonight, in our exonerated series, I want to reintroduce you to Christopher Dunn, who is finally a free man. He served 34 years in jail for a murder he did not commit. And just last week, we spoke to his wife and attorney on the day he was set to be released from prison. I say supposed to be because he was not released last week. And it was all because the state attorney general, Andrew Bailey, filed an appeal to try and keep Dunn locked up. And just like that, Dunn was ordered back behind bars. I mean, just listen to his wife explaining how close he was to freedom last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIRA DUNN, WIFE OF CHRISTOPHER DUNN: He was literally 50 feet away from the parking lot and was dressed in a civilian clothing that we'd prepared and picked out months before. He was doing a final signature and had, in the meantime, gotten rid of all his property, either given it away or -- he'd actually thrown away his toothbrush just a few moments before, knowing he wouldn't need that toothbrush anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I'm going to take you back. Dunn was initially convicted of first-degree murder for the shooting of 15-year-old Ricco Rogers in 1990. That conviction was largely based on the testimony of two boys who in 2018 said their testimony had been coerced. After reviewing Dunn's case, the St. Louis Circuit attorney filed a motion earlier just this year to vacate the guilty verdict.

You know, now, after 34 years and one excruciatingly, I'm sure, painful week, Dunn has finally been released from prison. Christopher Dunn and his attorney from the Midwest Innocence Project, Tricia Rojo Bushnell, join me now. Mr. Dunn, thank you so much for being here. After 34 years, you are finally a free man. Sir, what is it like to be on the outside now?

DUNN: First, I'd like to say thanks for having me. Um, what is it like to be out now? It's so surreal. It's something that -- it's very difficult for me to sit here and fully explain the words because my emotions are like on 10 (ph). So, it's -- it's unreal. This is how it feels.

COATES: I can only imagine the -- the joy, the mixed emotion at times. I mean, can you -- can you take us all back to the moment last week?

[23:50:01]

You were, I think, 50 feet from freedom. You were steps from the parking lot. You were about to leave prison. Then you were taken back after all of the injustice you have experienced. Can you take me back to what that moment felt like?

DUNN: Well, I often try to describe it as being like on death row. That's exactly what it felt like. It felt as if they were inserting a needle into my arm, and then taking it out and sending me back to general population only to bring me back and to execute me. That's exactly what it felt like. It was painful. And I can't say how much that it got to the point where I just want to crawl up and just ball up and just be to myself.

COATES: How did you stop yourself from losing that hope?

DUNN: Well, to be honest with you, it's kind of -- it's kind of difficult for me to say here that I have hope in the system, I have hope that this outcome came about, because I lost hope in the system a long time ago when they gave up on me. But what made me go was the fact that I don't know how not to fight for what's right. It took them 34 years to figure this one out, even though I tried to explain to them from the first day. But when you have others in your life that means more to you than anything, you will fight for them, not just yourself.

COATES: I'm going to remember those words. You don't know how not to fight for what is right. Tricia, I mean, the words of Mr. Dunn are unbelievable and so poignant. Take me behind the scenes here, though, legally. What has been happening over the last week to try to get him out? And is this a done deal or is there anything that's on the horizon that could potentially put him behind bars again and have this nightmare continue?

TRICIA ROJO BUSHNELL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MIDWEST INNOCENCE PROJECT: Well, we believe it's a done deal.

(LAUGHTER)

I mean, an issue on what has been happening and what would happen last week is the attorney general's office has argued they believe they have a right to appeal a decision in this kind of case. And this is the kind of case where the prosecutor is the person who brought the motion to overturn Chris's conviction. We don't believe the statute says that. Regardless, they have, in fact, filed what's called a notice of appeal and are attempting to make that process, which only the court will decide that question.

But until then, Chris is a free man. He has no conviction. He had no conviction a week ago when he was still in prison because the attorney general had directed the prison not to comply with the court's order.

COATES: This isn't the first time the Missouri attorney general, Tricia, Andrew Bailey, has tried to keep someone behind bars, even after the overturning of a -- of a murder conviction. What's going on here?

ROJO BUSHNELL: I think that's the question we all would like the answer to. I mean, I don't think anyone -- I would like to believe that no one would want to keep an innocent person in prison. But unfortunately, we've now seen that not only does this attorney general fight every innocence case, fights the opportunity for even someone to get into court, he is now fighting the very court orders that say someone must be released.

And in Chris's case, two courts actually found that Chris was innocent. Back in 2020, a court said he had met the standard for innocence. But in Missouri, a defendant cannot use innocence as a reason to get out of prison unless you were sentenced to death. And Chris was not sentenced to death. So, in 2020, that court said, I believe you've met the standard for innocence, but there's nothing I can do about it. And fast forward, another court finds that same thing, and the attorney general still fights.

COATES: It's mindboggling to think, Mr. Dunn, that you have been through any of this, and that it was 34 years in the making. And yet we all heard you standing outside of that prison saying that you forgive those who were involved in your prosecution. Many people hearing you aspire to have that level of grace that you have displayed. What makes you forgive?

DUNN: Well, you have to learn to forgive because, as I keep saying, if you hold on to it, if you hold on to the anger, the bitterness, the hate, then it will just consume you. And I'm trying to move forward with my life. And the longer that I hold on to what was stagnating me towards the past, I would never be able to move forward. So, I had to let go of all that bitterness, all that hate.

[23:55:00]

And in doing so, you got to learn to forgive. Now, I'm not saying I'm going to forget what happened, but I'm willing to forgive what has happened.

COATES: Christopher, if I can call you that, sir, what will you do now? What's your plan on how to live your best life?

DUNN: Well, I think, what Tricia just said to you, my life right now is in limbo because we don't know exactly what will follow after this appeal by the attorney general. However, for the moments that I'm here, I'm going to enjoy my life. And in the process, if I can, I would love to try to look -- look into going back to college.

COATES: Hmm. Well, I'm going to tell you something. I think so many people are cheering you, supporting you, and wishing only the best for you. Unbelievable injustice has occurred. Mr. Christopher Dunn, sir, it was a pleasure to meet you, and I'm glad you are home. Thank you.

DUNN: Thank you.

COATES: Tricia, thank you so much for being here. And thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)