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Laura Coates Live
Harris To Announce V.P. Pick; Chad Myers Reports On Tropical Storm Debby; Trump Blames Harris For Market Chaos; Shapiros' Former Boss Weighs In; Court Rules On Google; Olympic Gymnasts Celebrate First All-Black Gymnast Podium. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired August 05, 2024 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
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BETSY MCCAUGHEY, FORMER NEW YORK LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: And his torso hit the tape first, even though two of his competitors, their feet went over the line first. So, it just shows, no matter what you're doing in life, lean in.
(LAUGHTER)
You know what?
UNKNOWN: (INAUDIBLE) thought about that.
UNKNOWN: (INAUDIBLE).
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: A hot take would have been -- a real hot take would have been that he should have lost because his foot wasn't over the line.
MCCAUGHEY: No, but that's not the rule --
(LAUGHTER)
-- in the Olympics. The rule is who's able to torso goes through.
PHILLIP: I know. And I think it's a real skill to be able to do that at exactly the right moment --
MCCAUGHEY: He knew.
PHILLIP: -- in order to pull out the win. Everyone, thank you so much, and thank you for watching "NewsNight: State of the Race." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
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UNKNOWN: The suspense is terrible. I hope it'll last.
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LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, no one wants this suspense to last, and thankfully, it's all about to end as we get ready to learn who Vice President Kamala Harris is going to pick to be her running mate, tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
All right, the political game of "Guess Who?" V.P. edition ends in just a few hours from now. And as of now, it seems like a question for the Vice President Kamala Harris is, does your running mate wear glasses? Every parent right now is laughing at home. But sources tell CNN the focus is on two governors, Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania and Tim Walz of my home state of Minnesota. But, and isn't there always but? We're told you cannot rule out Senator Mark Kelly, which is why he's still on that screen, or maybe even a surprise from the rest of the shortlist.
Shapiro, for his part, seems totally unfazed by the chances that his life could soon change with a single call. Here he is shooting hoops with his son outside of his home today, but maybe instead of playing the shooting game, of course, they're playing the game White House.
Now, depending on who you ask, the V.P. choice has massive consequences for her chances or it may not matter much at all. Got to love politics with that respect. Let's say that history could be a bit of a guide here. The thinking is that she has to pick someone like Shapiro to deliver a critical swing state like Pennsylvania.
Well, in 2012, there was a lot of emphasis on Mitt Romney's choice of Paul Ryan from Wisconsin to help him carry that state. "The New York Times" on that selection, "Republicans hoped the V.P. announcement would start the race anew, as well as help make Mr. Ryan's state of Wisconsin more competitive." Well, the Romney-Ryan ticket lost Wisconsin and eventually the election.
Further back to 2004, you remember John Kerry went with North Carolina's John Edwards. A number of reasons for that particular pick, but among them was the thinking that Edwards would help Democrats finally win North Carolina.
"The New York Times" from that announcement, "The addition of Mr. Edwards would put North Carolina into play and bolster Mr. Kerry's bid in other Southern states." That also did not happen.
You get the point I'm making. Best laid electoral plans sometimes do not work out. The hometown kid does not always guarantee electoral votes. You still have to campaign, which is part of what's good about democracy, right?
And while Democrats have been jockeying and pushing for one pick or the other, there are plenty of others in the party who think anyone on that list will do the trick. I mean, just listen to how former Speaker Nancy Pelosi put it tonight on CNN.
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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), FORMER SPEAKER OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: I said any one of them would have made a great vice president, but only she would be able to judge who she had the best simpatico. Now, I think they're all great. And whoever she picks, I'm for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: With me now, "The Wall Street Journal" reporter Annie Linskey, Democratic strategist and former Obama campaign advisor, Ameshia Cross, and editor of "The National Review" and columnist for "The Washington Post," Ramesh Ponnuru. Everyone is here right now with me.
All right, the veepstakes continues from the Trump ticket to now where we are, less than 24 hours away. There have been no leaks, surprisingly, yet to actually announce who it's going to be, although everyone thinks Philadelphia means Shapiro. Of course, Philadelphia has other significance in American history as a site of doing so. Annie, what will be the final factors that you think Harris's team is going to be weighing right now?
ANNIE LINSKEY, REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Yeah, I mean, this has been such a condensed process like I can't even really -- I just was doing the math today for a story, and it has been 15 days since Kamala Harris became the, you know, presumptive nominee.
COATES: Or 15 years.
LINSKEY: Fifteen --
(LAUGHTER)
COATES: -- politics.
(LAUGHTER)
LINSKEY: That's what it feels like. But so -- imagine that 15 days after knowing who, you know, is going to be the nominee, you're going to have a vice presidential pick. It's really shocking to me. But look, I think in terms of the final thoughts that go into it, I mean, it's very much a gut check.
[23:05:00]
And that's what every sort of -- when you read any sort of biography of any president, there's always a chapter about the V.P. pick and it's really -- these are people who are going to have to govern together. They are on a ticket together. This is the one person the president cannot fire. So, you do have to have some sense of compatibility.
So, in my sense -- my sense here is that it's got to be kind of a gut check. This is a person -- we've had a face-to-face interview with the -- Harris has had a face-to-face interview with all three of these people on your list. And they sat down and, you know, it's the most important job interview of your life. And so, I think it's the gut check that happens in that moment.
COATES: I'm glad you mentioned the word "govern," because everyone is talking about who can help you win the ticket.
LINSKEY: Yeah.
COATES: But then they have to govern. And I think a lot of tribes are going to look and see whether they are simpatico on a number of issues.
And in particular, one thing I know, Ameshia, you and I have talked about this, the philosophy ought to be do no harm. You don't want to come at this very late stage, to your point, and have some skeleton in the closet, something that you cannot undo, because you only have a few weeks before the DNC and what? Less than 90, what? Two days until the actual election. Compare that to, say, a J.D. Vance. Who do you see on this ticket who might be the best case for doing no harm?
AMESHIA CROSS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Absolutely. First of all, the democratic bench does not have anyone near J.D. Vance in terms of problematic. But I do think somebody who's the best on the list in terms of day one, the last three that we've heard of, Walz, Shapiro, the senator from Arizona, Mark Kelly, all of them are amazing people.
I think that from a political perspective and acknowledging that relationship matters in this, the person who she has known the longest is Shapiro. The person who has also shared in a similar history when it comes to being a former A.G. is Shapiro. The person who has been known to not only reach across the aisle but also bring in some of the expansion folks that she's looking to talk to that have long left the Democratic Party, when you talk about those working-class voters and things like that, specifically some of the white male vote, that's probably going to be Shapiro.
But I think that when it comes to being ready on day one, when it comes to understanding some of the crisis moments that you will have to reach, we saw Shapiro jump into action because he had to after that assassination attempt on Donald Trump. He stepped up and he stepped up big time.
I think that when you have someone who is able to showcase that in real time reaction, they can be that unifier, that's going to make a difference as well.
COATES: You know, you know this quite well, that Obama was consulted, and when Shapiro actually first endorsed Obama back in, I think, 2007, he was a member of the House at that time. Obama was able to carry that state by, I think, 10 points. You know, Pennsylvania has been a huge coup for anyone who was able to get it. It has gone back and forth a little bit. When you're looking at the fact that they've consulted with Obama, they're obviously thinking about electoral count.
How do the Republicans pivot according to who they might choose? Because the point, all three are different routes but may lead to the same conclusion.
RAMESH PONNURU, EDITOR, NATIONAL REVIEW INSTITUTE: So, normally, what you have is the opposition party has spent a lot of time defining the presidential candidate --
COATES: Yeah.
PONNURU: -- and then turns to the vice-presidential candidate to magnify some element of the critique of the presidential candidate or there's some special vulnerabilities of the vice-presidential candidate.
This is a totally different situation because Republicans spent all their time defining the previous presidential candidate and haven't yet really defined the current presidential candidate.
So, it may be, depending on who they pick and depending on what particular vulnerabilities the vice-presidential pick has, that they don't spend a lot of time on that person.
COATES: You know, speaking of Biden, obviously, I mentioned the 15 days/15 years it felt like, I mean, this has been a whirlwind for the last month. And one of the questions that had been lingering was just how influential former Speaker Pelosi was in this pressure campaign for Biden behind the scenes to step down. Listen to what she told my friend, Dana Bash.
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PELOSI: No, I had nothing to do with that.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.
PELOSI: And if you ask them, it's almost insulting to them because they're formidable figures in the Congress of the United States. They make their own judgment and their own statement.
BASH: Have you spoken to President Biden since he dropped out?
PELOSI: No, I have not.
BASH: Do you hope to?
PELOSI: Yes, I hope to.
BASH: Yeah.
PELOSI: We're all busy.
BASH: Is everything okay with your relationship?
PELOSI: You'd have to ask him, but I hope so.
BASH: Okay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Look, if that's my answer, everything is not okay with me and my friend. I mean, that's just me. If you have to ask her or him how I feel about you in the moment, there's something going on. Read the tea leaves for me. She's a very precise woman. LINSKEY: She's very precise. And I think Dana did a masterful job in that interview because there very much were two sections of the interview. And in the first section, Speaker Pelosi, Speaker Merida Pelosi, gave the politic answer. You know, she had nothing to do with what happened, nothing to do at all.
[23:09:58]
You know, her top allies came out one by one by one against the president, but saying that he should drop out. But no, no, no, she had nothing to do.
And then the second part, she did sort of show her cards a little bit in saying that, oh, my goodness, the two of them haven't spoken at all. And in fact, I was really struck by Sheila Jackson Lee's funeral memorial service where Pelosi went on a different day than President Biden. So, they did not even overlap at that sort of event.
COATES: Hmm. I wonder if that was coincidental or just --
LINSKEY: Scheduling.
COATES: It happens. I mean, it happens from time to time. But, you know, there is, back to my point about Philadelphia, and I know everyone is saying it's got to be Philadelphia, it's got to be, actually, Josh Shapiro. Again, I go back to the fact of the significance of Philadelphia, for one. There's not a guarantee. It's not like it's Butte, Montana and they say, oh, we'll have a Montana governor as short list. It's Philadelphia, a place where most people have gone to make some sort of speech.
PONNURU: It's a swing state.
COATES: It's a swing state. I mean, Philadelphia thinks they are a state. You're right.
(LAUGHTER)
But you're correct. Thank you very much. Let me ask you about this counter-programming that's happening. The Trump-Vance campaign is going to be holding a rally. Guess where? Philadelphia, Ramesh. They'll campaign this week and tomorrow and also in the same cities, overlapping at some point in time with the Harris-Vance campaign. That's a pretty big risk because there is a thought that he might be overshadowed. They're not going to focus on him. He's sorts of 15 days old news.
PONNURU: I think that that is a risk that they're prepared to take. And Vance being overshadowed is not the worst thing that could happen to Vance --
(LAUGHTER)
-- for that matter or the worst thing that has happened in the last few days.
COATES: What could you possibly referencing right now?
PONNURU: Look, I mean, you know, the vice-presidential nominee is supposed to be in a supporting role, and to the extent that the vice- presidential nominee is the controversy as opposed to somebody who's taking, you know, who's taking incoming and shielding the nominee, that's a problem for a ticket.
COATES: Let me ask you about this. I mean, I want to see a debate. I know we all want to see a debate between Vice President Harris and former President Trump. He is saying he wants Fox News. They were supposed to do it with ABC. You, of course, remember the NABJ moderator is an ABC News reporter. We saw the way in which he treated her. You were actually at that event as well and gave us a good behind-the-scenes of what was going on there. Will they ultimately debate? And if Harris chooses not to go to Fox or Trump says not to go to ABC, is that it?
CROSS: So, I don't think that they will ultimately debate because I don't think Trump really wants to debate her. He's setting a stage at what he considers a friendly place, a place that has been -- you know, just wanting to devour Kamala Harris for a very long time. We've seen -- we've all seen the commentary on Fox as it relates to Vice President Harris. And this has been happening since she was declared Vice President. It has been sexist. It has been racist. It has been in the mud. They cannot wait to have her in that space.
What I think that Trump will do, because he doesn't want to have a neutral audience or a neutral party be a part of the conversation, he also wants to have a live audience. He wants to treat this like a Trump rally. That was the second part of him wanting to have it at Fox, because, as you can recall, when him and Biden originally agreed on the terms, it was host moderators and the nominee from either side. It was never supposed to be --
COATES: CNN had no live audience, remember.
CROSS: No live audience. It was never supposed to be a live audience. The second debate wasn't to have one either. What ABC has said is that they're going to have that space whether Trump shows up or not. So, I do think it's a great opportunity for Kamala Harris to answer the questions even if Trump is not there.
He doesn't want to have a ground that is one that will fact check him. He knows that Kamala Harris will do it in real time. He also does not want to have a host that will do it in real time. I think that that is a problem for him and his campaign, acknowledging that the traction that Kamala Harris has been able to pick up in less than two weeks has been astronomical. We've never seen anything like this before, not only with organizing but also with fundraising.
He also knows she's a really strong debater. He is always somebody who has run on vengeance. He's always someone who has run on bullying. He could walk up behind Hillary Clinton and do the weird thing that he did when they were debating. He cannot do that to Kamala Harris, and he's afraid. COATES: Well, it's interesting. I'm going to come back to all of you in a moment because I'm thinking if she were to show up for this debate and he's not there, I just don't want a Clint Eastwood empty chair moment.
(LAUGHTER)
We've already seen that. What will it look like? Hopefully, somebody knows in advance what's going to happen. Stand by, everyone, please.
We've got breaking news tonight. A new forecast is out from the National Hurricane Center as tropical storm Debby is threatening the southeast with catastrophic flooding. The storm is already linked to at least five deaths. I want to bring in CNN's Chad Myers at the CNN Weather Center. Chad, what does this forecast show?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST AND SEVERE WEATHER EXPERT: Well, it shows right now that a tornado just went over Kiowa Island, South Carolina and more storms are in the Atlantic Ocean trying to get to Charleston.
So, this is a major event for tonight. Yes, it doesn't look like much on the satellite but a 45-mile-per-hour storm. It will get back into the Atlantic Ocean, gain a little bit more strength before it gets up toward the Grand Strand and into parts of North Carolina.
[23:15:02]
So, we still have a storm on our hands. We still have tornadoes that will be on the ground tonight. You have -- need to have a way to get those warnings if you were in the low country here because that one that just went over Kiowa was a pretty good storm. It was fairly large. We saw the damage on the radar because the radar can see pieces of buildings and shingles and trees and leaves that shouldn't be in the air and they were there.
There is that tornado warning right there getting up toward Charleston again. Keep your eye on the ball, Charleston. Look at all of this rain. Everywhere that has purple was 10 inches of rain or more. And even Sarasota, the official reading there, over a foot of rain. And in spots across parts of the Carolinas, it is still raining.
You know, temperatures were going in the 80s and 90s during the day and all of a sudden, the wind came through and Chiefland had a 76- mile-per-hour wind and even my old adopted hometown Jekyll Island had 55 miles per hour.
There was a lot of flooding across parts of Florida earlier. Now, those flood warnings have moved into the Georgia and the Carolinas. Do not drive around at night. There's water on the roadways. You don't know how deep it is. This is still a dangerous storm. Even if it's a tropical storm or a hurricane, Cat 1, 2 or 3, this is a dangerous storm tonight, Laura.
COATES: Don't underestimate it. Chad Myers, thank you so much. Everyone, please stay safe. Well, Donald Trump is trying to point the finger at Kamala Harris for the recent market meltdown. But will the voters buy it? We've got a reality check on what's actually going on next.
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[23:20:00]
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COATES: The freak-out we saw on Wall Street today could end up being quite short-lived. One good sign? Stocks in Japan are bouncing up as we speak. The Nikkei, that's the main index there, is up more than 9% after one of its worst days in history.
Now, American markets will also look to rebound, of course, tomorrow after an ugly day that got people worried about the health of the U.S. economy. One point three trillion in value was erased from the S&P, the Dow dropping by more than a thousand points and, of course, the news, it immediately became political with Donald Trump calling it the Kamala crash and now warning of a recession.
Now, to give us a reality check, let's bring in Justin Wolfers. He's a professor of economics and public policy at the University of Michigan. The audience is thrilled that it's not me explaining economics to them right now. Let's go to you, professor, on this very point. So, there are really big numbers we're talking about that sound pretty scary, but put into context how bad today's sell-off really was. I mean, was it temporary or a sign of something much bigger?
JUSTIN WOLFERS, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: How bad was today's sell-off? Honestly, it depends who you are. If you're a guy on Wall Street earning more money than you and I are, in a flashy suit whose annual bonus depends on the ups and downs of the market, yeah, today was pretty rough.
But if you're not on Wall Street, if instead you're over on Main Street and you're looking to earn a living, employment remains high, wages are rising, incomes are rising, and there's a whole lot of hullabaloo on Wall Street that doesn't really have that much of a direct effect on your life. And moreover, Wall Street sometimes goes down. And you know what's happening right now? It's bouncing right back up.
COATES: That's important to think about. I think a lot of people, sometimes they hear about the market, and they don't find it accessible. They don't think of it as an immediate issue for themselves. But they are wondering tonight, what caused all this?
WOLFERS: Well, one answer is an immense overreaction. Last week, the Federal Reserve decided not to raise interest rates, on Wednesday. And then on Friday, it discovered that the state of the American labor market was a little bit worse, just a little bit, than many people had been hoping. That led them to say, well, maybe the Federal Reserve is asleep at the wheel. It should have cut, and it didn't. And so, this freak out, it's a tantrum. Folks on Wall Street wanted their interest rate cuts. They didn't get them, and they're worried that the Federal Reserve will fall behind. I think the reality for people in their everyday lives is if the Fed gets it mostly right, that'll be good enough to keep their livelihoods pretty good, and I think that's what's going to happen.
COATES: Now, it doesn't mean, of course, that there is -- everything that happened on Wall Street or beyond has no effect on the average person. It does have some impact. But your point is to the level that people have been hand-wringing on this issue, likely not.
But of course, this has become very political, as you can imagine. Donald Trump is blaming Kamala Harris for the market tanking. And like I said, he's named today's volatility the -- quote -- "Kamala crash." Can you fact check a little bit of this claim for me? I mean, does a singular person, does the vice president hold any sway singularly, if at all, over this market?
WOLFERS: This might be the easiest fact check in my life. Last time I looked it up, Kamala Harris was the vice president. The vice president has essentially no power except for certifying elections. We know that's very important. Or voting in the Senate, which she didn't do.
And moreover, you know, there's a president, there's a Federal Reserve chair, there's a Congress, and there's no particular action -- notice, there's no action that she took that he's pointing at. It doesn't seem at all plausible that Kamala Harris caused any part of this.
COATES: There seems to be a lot of factors that go into how a market is impacted. Can you just describe a couple of them for our audience, understand all the different nuances that would even contribute to a change?
WOLFERS: Look, here's the simple way to think about financial markets. They're like a big toddler. When they don't get fed, maybe they don't get their rate cuts, they get cranky. They throw tantrums. They say all sorts of things, things that they may later come to regret.
Now, the thing is, that might lead you to say we should ignore financial markets. But sometimes, financial markets, like my toddler, well, they see something coming that the rest of us haven't yet seen.
[23:25:01]
And so, that's the reason we do want to keep an open mind about this. Markets do seem a little less happy about the future. We can't be fully sure exactly what's going on. I do think it's an overreaction, but I also think it's worth taking seriously and being a little cautious in the next few months.
COATES: Justin Wolfers, I consider any reference to toddlers very triggering. Thank you so much for joining me tonight. I appreciate it.
Annie, Ameshia, and Ramesh are now back with us. Oh, I saw all of your back straightened at the thought of toddlers in the market. But the politics of this, I mean, the idea of trying to assign blame to Harris is obviously strategic. But will it work out to have this connection?
PONNURU: Oh, I think that most people are going to be able to reject that as standard political order. If, however, you see continued market weakness, if people see their 401ks continuing to sink, if there's another bad labor market report or two before the election, that's a different thing. That's, I think, not a question of what Trump is saying. It's a question of what's actually happening in the economy.
COATES: I mean, I want everyone to look to, if I can just play for a second, how he did this. The way of trying to blame her. Watch what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Here we go. Look at him go down. What some would call history in the making.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): That's scary. Don't say that.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): He has never been -- he has never been down a thousand points ever, not even intraday on the Nasdaq.
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Bidenomics is working. It's working.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): The stock market just taking a big old nosedive this morning.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Dow Jones is down about a thousand and 10 points.
HARRIS: That is called Bidenomics.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: So, they're trying to associate, obviously, Bidenomics, which has been an issue for the Biden-Harris administration, trying to bridge the gap between how people should feel about the economy and how they do feel about the economy. By putting these together, this is obviously a very clear intention by the Trump campaign.
LINSKEY: Yeah, absolutely. And I think I understand why the Trump campaign is doing this, taking this tactic and trying to tie these things together. And it makes a lot of sense to me. I mean, look, since July 21st, when Biden dropped out, the Trump campaign has had a series of not-so-great days where they've been talking about cats and women without children and diet and Mountain Dew. None of these are winning issues.
But Donald Trump polls much better on the economy than Kamala Harris does. That's, you know, with voters' writ large. But particularly when you look at independent voters, they really believe that Donald Trump is better equipped to handle the economy. Now -- COATES: Can we show that poll? We have up for the audience, too, about how -- to highlight what you're saying before I go back to you, Annie, 25% of registered voters think they would fare financially better under a Harris presidency compared to 45% under Trump. That's significant.
LINSKEY: It's significant. And so, I think, I mean, look, when they're talking about the economy, that is a much better day for them than when they're talking about these other issues that I mentioned. So, you know, the minute you have bad economic news, he's going to try to start to attach that to Harris.
And the other thing that I think is really interesting, when you look at some of the polling, it shows that the attacks on the economy that Republicans have been leveling for the last year, year and a half, have all been focused at Joe Biden. And they haven't really stuck to Kamala Harris. And so, you can see why the Republicans and Donald Trump need to sort of really pivot hard and try to make those attacks stick to her because that is an issue that voters do actually vote on.
COATES: How does she take away that stick? Because, obviously, before, he was top of ticket. Now, she is.
CROSS: I think she's got to do two things. And if what she -- what she talked about during her most recent speech at the rally in Georgia is proof positive of anything, it's that she was leaning in on the concerns of everyday Americans, particularly those folks who believe rent is too high, who are having a hard time paying for groceries, who are having a hard time with child care. She acknowledged those things in addition to talking about the sizable wins of the Biden-Harris administration.
I think that she has to do both. She has to lean in on how people feel, but also their reality because it's not just feelings. A lot of people can't afford groceries. She has to lean in on their reality and talk about the ways in which she's going to improve that for them.
And I think she's doing that on the campaign trail now. It is not, Bidenomics is great for everybody and you all just need to figure it out. It is, hey, these people are having a hard time. Let me reach out and create policies that will work for them and acknowledge their pain at the same time. That's what she's been doing on the campaign trail.
COATES: Well, we'll see if she can continue that. And, of course, the person who she'll be a running mate with has got to be on the same page and be convincing about it. Thank you so much, everyone.
Well, I just mentioned Josh Shapiro, the governor of Pennsylvania. He is one of Vice President Kamala Harris's top choices for her V.P. running mate. But some Democrats are reportedly asking, will his personal ambition get in the way? My next guest was once Shapiro's boss in Congress, former Representative Joe Hoeffel. He joins me in just a moment.
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[23:30:00]
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COATES: Well, the race to be Kamala Harris's running mate revealing a question that has apparently been lingering in Pennsylvania politics and beyond. Is Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro loyal or motivated by ambition? Apparently, Democratic Senator John Fetterman thinks that Shapiro is only out for himself, according to Politico's reporting. Fetterman's team told the Harris campaign they believe Shapiro is excessively focused on his own personal ambitions. Fifty-one-year-old Shapiro has faced this criticism for years now.
Look what his former boss, Democratic Congressman Joe Hoeffel, said after Shapiro replaced him on the ballot of a local county election in 2011, saying -- quote -- "You don't want to turn your back on him. Loyalty is not his strong suit." Now, that was seven years ago, back in 2017. Today, Hoeffel wants Shapiro to be on that ticket with Vice President Harris.
[23:34:58]
Former congressman joins me now. Congressman, thank you so much for being with me this evening. You know, all eyes are on your state as they announce it will be made tomorrow in Philadelphia. They believe it will be Shapiro. Possibly, that's the talk of the town, although Kelly and Tim Walz are also in there. But because it's being announced in Philly, they think maybe the Pennsylvania governor.
You have said that Shapiro showed ambition by showing up at your office in the House back in 1998. What do you say to people who are concerned that Shapiro may be prioritizing his own ambition over perhaps loyalty to potential President Harris?
JOE HOEFFEL, FORMER PENNSYLVANIA REPRESENTATIVE: I think Josh is really dedicated to public service. I have no doubts about his sincerity. I know he's a smart guy, talented, hardworking. Sure, he's ambitious. All politicians are ambitious. You have to be in this business. But I think his motivation is good. And I hope that Kamala Harris picks him. I think he'd be a great asset to the campaign.
COATES: What was behind the statement that she made? Do you still believe that perhaps loyalty is not his strong suit?
HOEFFEL: Well, we had a difference of opinion after working together for years on the succession within the Democratic Party. At the county commissioner level, I was the incumbent chair of the county commissioners. Josh and I were talking about running together. We couldn't quite work it out, and we had a difference. Looking back on it, it's a lot less important now than it was back then. It's pretty much water under the bridge at this point.
I think what we're facing today and the challenge of keeping Donald Trump out of the White House is so much more important that we've got to pick the strongest team. I really think that Kamala Harris and Josh Shapiro is the very best team the Democrats can put forward. COATES: Sitting here today, you know, we've heard from Senator Fetterman, who has expressed some of his perhaps anxiety surrounding this particular pick. He was your chief of staff in talking about Shapiro. Shapiro and Fetterman are two of the most popular Democrats in Pennsylvania. But there appears to be, according to Politico, a kind of a rift between them. Do you have any idea why would Fetterman be so concerned about Shapiro? Do you think that gives pause to the people of your state of Pennsylvania?
HOEFFEL: Well, they're both ambitious. It's not a one-sided deal. So, they've had some differences. They served together on the Board of Pardons in Pennsylvania and didn't agree on everything. So, they've bumped up against -- against each other.
I don't take back anything that I said a few years ago. You know, it was true then, and I stick by it. But Josh has grown as a politician. He's matured. He's 51 now. He has done a fine job as our attorney general and our governor.
And he matches up so well with Kamala that these differences and personality disagreements pale in comparison to the importance of this national election. Harris and Shapiro, both former prosecutors, they pair up so well against the felonious Mr. Trump. Josh is smart and bright, has executive experience, far more experience as an executive than J.D. Vance. It's really a terrific team, and I hope Kamala makes it come together.
COATES: Well, I got to tell you, former Congressman Joe Hoeffel, if ambition were a disqualifier, I don't think there'd be a single person in office.
(LAUGHTER)
Thank you so much. Nice to speak with you.
HOEFFEL: You're exactly right.
COATES: Nice to see you. Thank you so much.
HOEFFEL: Thank you.
COATES: Well, ahead, the ruling that could change how we get information and search on the internet. What does the government's rare legal victory against Google mean for you? The one, the only, Kara Swisher is here to explain.
Plus, is it the final bow from the great incomparable goat, Simone Biles? The iconic moment that wrapped up her redemption tour at the Paris Olympics.
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[23:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COATES: Well, the business behind how we find information online could soon be going through some pretty major changes. That's all because Google, the undisputed king of search, just suffered a massive loss in federal court. Yes, Google just suffered a massive loss.
You know, the company that was so big, it actually became a verb? It's search business. It is so large. The DOJ says that 90% of search is done through Google. Now, of course, Google disputes those numbers. But today, the company was found to have violated antitrust law. The judge ruling that Google is a -- quote -- "monopolist," illegally crushing competition in search.
So, what exactly will all this mean for you and I? I've got the one and only Kara Swisher here with me tonight. She's a CNN contributor and author of "Burn Book." Kara, so good to see you. Look --
KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, AUTHOR: Hey.
COATES: -- the judge gave a lot of different options. There are a few that -- I mean, they haven't actually given the options yet, but there are things that are on the table.
[23:45:02]
A potential monetary fine, a breakup of the company, maybe even forcing Google to implement a "choice screen" that says, hey, there are other search engines available. What do you think is likely to happen?
SWISHER: Uh, it's not clear. There's going to be a whole trial about that, what the remedies are.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
SWISHER: And so, the judge hasn't let on any. He just -- he just made the ruling that Google is a monopolist and acted that way around search and also text advertising. And by the way, there's a third trial that's going on with the Department of Justice in Virginia. It starts in September, around ad tech itself. And so, it's sort of hitting all of Google's businesses at once. And so, this is going to go on for a while. But we'll see what's going to actually happen. But it's a big loss. It's the first big loss for a tech company in forever since Microsoft, really.
COATES: The ad numbers are so important because, again, a monetary fine, not normally how you punish an entity that is a monopoly because it's a drop in the bucket of all that they're able to get.
SWISHER: Sure.
COATES: And it's not really a deterrent. There's also been a lot of speculation about how the internet search might be forever altered because of AI technology. But now you've got this lawsuit.
SWISHER: That's right.
COATES: Could this accelerate some of the change that's already bubbling in the background?
SWISHER: Well, you know, it depends on -- a lot of people think Google is going to lose search business because of AI. You know, OpenAI is doing search, all kinds of companies. Amazon does search and stuff like that. And one of Google's arguments is it's not as big as you think it is, although it is as big as you think it is.
COATES: Probably bigger.
SWISHER: Probably bigger. And it's also what they did in the past in order to maintain that monopoly, which includes paying $26 billion in payments to be the default search engine on places like Apple and Mozilla. It gave that money mostly to Apple. And so, it's sort of the behaviors that sort of entrench it into place. And can it take those entrenchments and turn it into an advantage in the AI business? That's one of the worries here, is to possibly stop behavior going forward, too.
COATES: So, if Google is the loser today, does that mean that the consumer is the winner?
SWISHER: I'm not so sure the consumer is the winner yet because there's a lot of cases happening against all these companies, Amazon to Apple to Meta, Facebook. And we'll see. But one of the problems is Congress has not acted in decades around these companies, even though every other major industry, as you know, I've said this over and over again, has regulations. Technology doesn't have any. And they have advantages in many ways.
And so, this is sort of the beginning of that idea, which should have happened back in the Obama administration. But when it was really actually happening, now we're sort of cleaning up a situation.
Now, Google is going to push back. They're going to probably ask to appeal. They have to ask this judge to appeal. So, it's going to go on for a while. So, you're probably not going to see any real differences for consumers. And it's just a question. Is innovation being stifled because one company runs all of search? And this is what the Justice Department has won here in this case.
COATES: It's a really important one. You're right, we're probably years out from actually having a solution. And, of course, maybe even --
SWISHER: Right.
COATES: -- longer before Congress is the trusted body to oversee all of technology. Kara Swisher --
SWISHER: Yeah.
COATES: -- thank you so much. Nice to see you.
SWISHER: Good to see you.
COATES: Well, look, this is one of the photos that will likely define Simone Biles' career, and she's not even at the top of the podium. There she is with Jordan Chiles as well. The incredible humility from America's most decorated gymnast, and it's up next as she wraps up her redemption tour.
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[23:50:00]
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COATES: Simone Biles wrapping up what could be her last Olympics Games, and how, as the most decorated American gymnast. We already knew that she was one of the greats, but the moment at the podium today may have cemented her legacy even further. Why? By showing that with her greatness, and it is extraordinary, also comes exceptional humility and sportsmanship.
Biles and her teammate, Jordan Chiles, they won silver and bronze, respectively, in the individual floor final. And Brazilian Rebeca Andrade, she took home the gold. The three celebrated the first all- Black gymnast podium. And as for Biles and Chiles, they took it a step further, bowing to Andrade as she stepped up to her place on the podium. Here's what Biles had to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMONE BILES, GYMNAST: Rebeca is -- she's so amazing. She's queen. And first, it was an all-Black podium, so that was super exciting for us. But then Jordan was like, should we bow to her? And I was like, absolutely. So, we're like, are we going to do it now? And then that's why we did it. But she's -- she's such an excitement to watch, and then all the fans in the crowd always cheering for her. So, it just -- it was just the right thing to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Hmm. Well, Biles has now won 11 Olympic medals, dating back to the Rio Games in 2016. Seven of them are gold.
Joining me now, CNN contributor Cari Champion. So good to see you, Cari. I mean, this has been so exciting. My daughter is a gymnast. I watched the trials in my home state of Minnesota. I have been so excited by all of this. She won her gold medals. She has moves that are named after her. And yet, she still bowed to Rebeca Andrade. That was such a powerful moment.
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: That is a moment that should go down in history that we will see. You know, I did a little search, a little quick search on all the socials. It had over 25 million views just on Twitter/X.
[23:55:002]
And I thought it was really interesting because what this group of gymnasts, these athletes are showing us, is that you can compete and still encourage one another. And afterwards, they talked about it. Well, first of all, they're like -- well, first of all, it was all Black, right? So, we're excited about that. She's queen. And I feel like this was a lesson because there are so many times that we forget that we should honor the people that are around us.
And Simone has handled herself with so much class and humility, as you pointed out. And for me, she has been the professional, the true ethic -- excuse me, the definition of sportsmanlike conduct because she knows how to carry herself. And that was such a special moment for these women. And truth be told, Rebeca is her competition in every form and fashion, but this is a good moment, right? Competition is a good thing. And it was a great moment for the sport.
COATES: I call this, I guess we should change the name to sportswomanship. Forget sportsmanship at this point in time. And you know what? If you've ever seen Jordan Chiles, I mean, she is everyone's hype woman. She is so exciting to watch, so it's not surprising that she would have tried to hype people up as well around her.
But you're right, to see these three young women celebrating, supporting one another, I mean, given the trials and tribulations that each of them had faced to get to where they are, it really, to me, it made me feel proud. And as a mother, having my daughter and my son watch, it made me feel proud to say, look, this is among the best and they recognized it.
CHAMPION: I will say this, and this is just a moment, a moment that I want to take out and point out what you do, Laura. You mentioned that your daughter is a gymnast. I had no idea. But what I know so many times, especially women sometimes feel like they have to compete with one another unnecessarily, even if you're on the same team, and all throughout this entire Olympics, all we saw was that gymnastics team stick together as one. At the very end, for Jordan to suggest to bow to Rebecca was beautiful.
But even as somewhat of a newcomer, you know, at CNN, you've always been so generous and kind. And I think that, to me, when we can do that and we show how that works, it really does spread itself. So, you're watching something, and while this may have been your favorite story of the day, you truly execute and illustrate that, at least from my understanding what I've been able to witness.
COATES: Now, you know I'm emotional. Don't let me cry on television. What are you doing? Thank you so much. Whatever.
(LAUGHTER)
Move on. Whatever. I don't like you. I don't love you. I'm not crying. You're crying. Thank you. You make it easy. I respect you so much. You make it easy. Thank you for saying that. I really do appreciate that. And I could give you flowers all night, as the world can, because you are so well-respected. And how.
And this really, I think to me, is a moment because that support, it symbolizes something that I think has been lacking a lot in sports. You and I have had how many conversations now about what's going on in the WNBA and how people try to pit women against each other and they talk about this hyperbolic competition and beef as opposed to mutual respect. Here's what it looks like when people are taken at their word that they respect the competition, Cari.
CHAMPION: Yeah, and there's power in numbers because each one of these ladies in their own right is excellent. So, can you imagine a room full of excellent women doing their best at all times? Women, we're not going to say sportsmen-like conduct, we're going to say women's- like conduct.
COATES: Hmm.
CHAMPION: And it is being on display right here in this moment. These Olympics have obviously done so much better than Tokyo for various reasons.
COATES: Yeah.
CHAMPION: But we've been able to see something that we haven't been able to see in a long time, and that is these storylines because we've followed so many of these athletes for the better of a decade, the better part of a decade. So, we know their stories. We know what they've been through. And you called this -- I heard you earlier say this was Biles's redemption tour. I mean, I love the fact that she might even still give us more in 2028.
COATES: Hmm.
CHAMPION: There's still so much more to come and we're so invested. So, this was definitely the highlight thus far, a history-making highlight that we can look back on and learn so many invaluable lessons.
COATES: So true. If she goes to L.A., oh my goodness, how exciting. I'm moving in with you if that happens, Cari. But let me ask you about this. I cannot think about anything but thinking she has been such an icon for so many athletes in all sports and people who are not athletes who just want to want people to value their mental health and value what it takes to sustain it. That's a real big part of her legacy. Unlike many other athletes, it's on and off the mat, on and off the court. For her, it's her health as the best aspect --
CHAMPION: Yeah.
COATES: -- of any competition.
CHAMPION: I think that what she was able to show us in so many ways, I call it like Mighty Mike because she's such a little tiny powerhouse.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
CHAMPION: But she was so brave in saying that I cannot compete. Mentally, I am not well. Also, holding journalists accountable. I know that sometimes we ask questions trying to get to the next story. But even this time, she's like, can I just enjoy this moment? Can I enjoy this history-making moment before I have to talk about what happens next?
[00:00:01]
And I think that there is a part of us that have to -- that -- we should respect the request. But the idea that she's saying it's okay to talk about my mental health and I need it, it has become very trendy to talk about it. But athletes don't feel comfortable doing that. I know very few athletes who can talk about where they are mentally because it's such a huge, if not the most important component to their game.
And for her to be able to do that and then come back in such a powerful way, it sends a message that it is okay to take a mental break. So, as you point out, I do think that her messaging, how she carries herself --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
CHAMPION: -- everything about Simone Biles is the consummate Olympian, and I just am so grateful that we have this moment.
COATES: Cari Champion, your last name says it all. Thank you so much.
CHAMPION: Thank you.
COATES: And thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
