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Laura Coates Live
Musk-Trump Interview Marred By Tech Problems, Huge Delay; New Poll Shows Harris Gaining Ground In Three Key Battleground States; Sources: Iranian Hackers Breached Roger Stone's Email; Passengers Refute Trump's Claim Willie Brown was on Chopper. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired August 12, 2024 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump returns to X for a big interview with Elon Musk, but it's the bungled launch of the conversation drawing the most attention right now. Plus, investigators dig into the suspected Iranian hack of the Trump campaign.
And tonight, we're learning that the Trump campaign was not the only target. And it's the near-fatal helicopter crash. Trump has been talking about it. But it turns out, he apparently confused who was riding with him on that helicopter. We'll speak to the person who was actually there.
Elon Musk billed it as the interview of the century. Donald Trump broke his long silence on X to promote it, but their conversation on Musk's platform was plagued with technical problems that are overshadowing the interview itself, at least parts of it. At the scheduled start time, many people could not connect to the feed where it was happening.
Musk claims a denial-of-service attack, as it's known, overwhelmed the company's servers, but it's unclear if that was the issue or if too many people were trying to get into the room.
The interview eventually got underway nearly 45 minutes behind schedule, and from there, Trump launched into his normal talking points and grievances and attacks on Kamala Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): They're doing it right now while this third- rate, phony candidate -- don't forget, I beat -- I beat Biden. He failed in the debate miserably. We cannot have a Democrat. We cannot have her. She's incompetent. She's as bad as Biden. No tax on tips? And all of a sudden, she's making a speech and saying, "there will be no tax on tips." I said that months ago.
All of a sudden, for politics, she says -- you know, she comes out with what I said, which I think is terrible. And I think it's also hitting them very hard. These people are fake. Kamala wouldn't have this conversation. She can't because she's not smart. You know, she's not a smart person, by the way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: The glitchy conversation was not just a misfire for Trump, it was hoping to use the opportunity to blunt Kamala Harris's momentum. It's also a big embarrassment for Elon Musk because this has happened before, during the botched launch of Ron DeSantis's presidential campaign.
It's unclear if this will impact Trump and Musk's relationship, which has gotten increasingly closer over the past few months since Musk took over what used to be known as Twitter.
The billionaire has used the platform as his personal megaphone, expressing increasingly far-right views aligned with Trump. Remember, Musk endorsed Donald Trump after the assassination attempt against him.
And there's new reporting tonight that shows just how far Musk has ventured into politics. "The Wall Street Journal" says his Super PAC wants to turn out 800,000 voters for Trump in battleground states. We will dig into that later on tonight.
And if you want just a sense of just how much their bromance has grown, all you have to do is track Trump's evolving comments on electric cars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The cars go for like two hours. What are you going to do? Everyone is going to be sitting on the highway. We're all going to be looking for a little plug-in.
Why is it that these big, powerful car companies with guys that are making $35 million a year immediately quit? They say, you want electric vehicles? We'll give it to you, when the damn things don't go far enough and they're too expensive.
I'm for electric cars. I have to be, you know, because Elon endorsed me very strongly. Elon.
(APPLAUSE)
So, I have no choice.
(Voice-over): You have a good -- and you do make a great product. I have to say, I have to be honest with you. But that doesn't mean everybody should have an electric car. But these are minor details. But you -- your product is incredible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: All right, now, he's on board with electric cars. Okay, joining me now, CNN media analyst and Axios senior media reporter, Sara Fischer, former Trump 2020 director of strategic communications, Marc Lotter, and former Democratic congressman and 2020 presidential candidate, Tim Ryan.
Guys, thanks very much for being with us. Sara, let me start with you first. This is a bit in your wheelhouse. Elon Musk is claiming that there was some sort of technical problem at the beginning of this. What do we know?
SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: And now, you have reports out from "The Verge," a tech company, a tech media company, saying that sources said it's not actually a DDoS, a denial-of-service attack. It was just that the systems were overwhelmed. You know, it's hard.
[23:05:00]
X has become a black box in terms of communication. What Elon Musk says, oftentimes, is what goes. But, oftentimes, these things can look very similar, Jim. A DDoS attack is overwhelming a system to shut it down. It could have very well been that a lot of people wanted to listen to this interview, which overwhelmed the system and shut it down. Either way, as you mentioned at the top of your remarks, it's an embarrassment for Musk. They're trying to make this the video platform of choice, but they can't get a live stream up and running.
ACOSTA: Yeah, he said it was going to be the greatest piece of entertainment or whatever, you know, before this thing got started. That is certainly not what it was.
And Marc, uh, the first 20 minutes of the interview was on the assassination attempt, and then we moved on into other areas. We're going to talk about some of those areas that he got into. Do you really want Donald Trump to be off-script? Sort of, you know, going off the cuff for two hours plus as -- as we're finding out he did earlier on this evening. What do you think?
MARC LOTTER, FORMER TRUMP 2020 DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: Well, I think this was a great opportunity for him to reach us. I saw it reach about 1.3 million at the max viewership, just on Twitter, not some of the other streaming platforms that were also carrying it. So, you're getting a non-traditional news audience that's consuming this conversation. And I think the fact that it was a conversation, was very entertaining. It's different from a politician, what they typically do. And you -- and it -- I think people were engaged with it that way. You literally heard Elon Musk and Donald Trump debating everything. Obviously, the economy and the border and the things you would expect. But they were talking about the tunnels, high-speed rail, SpaceX, a lot of just interesting things. I found it to be quite entertaining.
ACOSTA: Well, you know, and -- and I guess opinions are going to vary on this. I mean, I wonder how much of this is going to come back to -- to bite Trump when people piece through what -- what was said.
Tim, let me go to you. Let's listen to Donald Trump talk about Elon Musk and his approach to managing his workforce. Let's listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP (voice-over): You're the greatest cutter. I mean, I look at what you do. You walk in and you just say, 'you want to quit?'
(LAUGHTER)
They go on strike. They -- I won't mention the name of the company, but they go on strike, and you say, 'that's okay, you're all gone, you're all gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: He calls Elon Musk the greatest cutter. I mean, you and I both know, Tim, that Donald Trump is going to have to win these blue wall states or at least Pennsylvania for that matter to win the presidency. He has been trying to appeal to union voters. This doesn't sound like something that's going to help very much at all.
TIM RYAN, FORMER OHIO REPRESENTATIVE, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, what this sounded like when I first heard it, is that these are the conversations that happen at the fancy country clubs with the really rich people, the really rich CEOs. Oh, you're a great cutter. No, you're a great cutter. How many did you lay off this month? How many did I lay off this month?
The working-class people in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, that's what they think these folks talk about every single day. And it turns out, when they're having a conversation, that's exactly what they talk about.
When Barack Obama beat Mitt Romney, it was on a commercial in Ohio that basically talked about Romney putting a guy in a coffin. That's what he felt like when he lost his job because of what Mitt Romney did.
So, you're going to be hearing a lot more of that, what was just said on that conversation, and you're going to be hearing it in three states in particular, not far from where I'm from right now in Columbus, Ohio.
ACOSTA: Yeah. Marc, I mean, you and I are both old enough to remember the Mitt Romney campaign, when Mitt Romney said, I'd like to be able to fire people. That was a huge gaffe during that campaign. That was a much more quaint time in our politics, when that kind of a gaffe could really cause trouble for a campaign. For Donald Trump, perhaps, it's just a day that ends in why. But you -- I can't imagine, Marc, being somebody from the comm side of things, that you heard that and thought that was a good idea for Donald Trump to say that.
LOTTER: Well, if I recall, they were talking about cutting government spending and efficiency. Elon Musk was really pressing Donald Trump on needing an efficiency commission to get rid of wasteful spending, wasteful programs with the government, and I think that was what that interaction was entailing.
I think a lot of people out there do think we need to cut the size of government, cut the amount of government spending we have. And so, if the clip is played in context --
ACOSTA: Yeah, but Marc --
LOTTER: -- I think it will be easily understood.
ACOSTA: But if you hear him -- if you hear him talking there, he says -- he says clearly to Elon Musk, you know, if you go on strike, uh, you're out of here. And he -- I mean, calling him the greatest cutter. I mean, so that -- I mean, clearly, that's -- that's what he was talking about there.
LOTTER: Well, I mean, and if government workers want to go on strike in Trump administration 2.0, then they should be gone. But -- and I think that's what they were talking about. And we do need to get a hold of government spending. I think that was part of the free flow of this event.
I'm sure both sides, you know, and obviously, as you -- as you referenced, Jim, I'm sure the Harris campaign is going to try to take sound bites and use it for their advantage. If she ever does an interview, we will do the same thing on our side.
[23:10:01]
I mean, that's how this game is played. But I do think the context matters. They were talking about bringing more efficiency to government. Elon was pressing to say, I would volunteer to help, and Trump was basically praising him, saying, you know how to cut costs.
ACOSTA: Yeah. And Tim, I mean, he -- Trump did say at one point, I need an Elon Musk, I need somebody that has a lot of strength and courage and smart. I want to close up the Department of Education, move education back to the states. I mean, those kinds of comments, obviously, are not going to sit well with a lot of voters. If people hear that, they -- they don't want to see the Department of Education closed down.
RYAN: Well, first and foremost, they weren't talking about government workers, they weren't talking about streamlining government, they were talking about Elon Musk firing people because they wanted to unionize or they wanted better wages and benefits. Take that campaign to Western Pennsylvania. Take that idea to Michigan and Wisconsin. It's a stone-cold loser and there's no wiggling out of it.
And when it comes to Elon Musk, look, I kind of like Elon Musk, some of the things he talks about. I like the fact that he's going into electric vehicles. I like some of the technologies that he's promoting. I listened to him tonight, and I thought to myself, what is he doing running around with Donald Trump? Like, I look at the books that Elon Musk reads. He's trying -- he's trying to take the country technologically in a positive way.
I completely disagree with his politics and the fact that he wants to use Trump as some kind of vessel. I think this was -- he was trying to throw a lifeline to Donald Trump tonight, and it didn't work out. But this damaged Trump big-time in the industrial states. He's already on his heels, he has no message, and he's trying to appeal to working- class people. He's talking about, you know, how much he loves how Elon Musk fires people. That's terrible. You're going to -- you're going to hear that for 90 days in the swing states. And I think he tried to throw him a lifeline, and he threw him an anchor, is what happened tonight.
ACOSTA: Yeah. And Sara, what is going on with -- with Donald Trump and Elon Musk or a couple of moments during all of this where Trump was saying, Elon Musk, I thought you were a progressive or a liberal and -- you know, they were very simpatico. They had trouble -- it was almost like two teenagers saying, oh, no, you hang up first. No, I'll hang up, but then you hang up. They couldn't get off the phone with one another. I mean, what is going on here? I mean, this is kind of a bromance, MAGA bromance. What's happening?
FISCHER: Yeah, and it has been building over the past few months. I think it has reached a crescendo point. What's interesting is that there was even some conversation about, like, Musk, would you join this administration? Would you be a part of team Trump? Look, I don't think Elon Musk was ever going to leave his posts, running his public and private companies. He has already faced shareholder lawsuits at Tesla for not paying enough attention to Tesla when he took over X.
But he could be a strong confidant to Donald Trump. And you know how that goes, Jim. When you're a close advisor, somebody that he trusts, somebody that he listens to, he just follows what you want him to do on a win. And so, that's great for Elon Musk, right? If he needs policies that are pushed in his favor, he's now going to have, potentially, if Donald Trump wins, a sympathetic here in the White House.
ACOSTA: Yeah. And he talked about Elon Musk joining a Trump administration.
FISCHER: Yes, exactly right. And the other thing to note about joining here, interesting that Donald Trump finally is back on X. He was let on when --
ACOSTA: Right.
FISCHER: -- Elon Musk took over. But as of today, he started to aggressively use the platform. Now, that's notable, Jim, because Donald Trump has his own social media platform, right? He has Truth Social, but he opted to do it on Elon Musk's.
ACOSTA: Yeah. Marc, I mean, I -- I was at the White House during the final days of the Trump administration, after January 6, when Twitter, at that time, the company was called Twitter, took Donald Trump off of that platform because they thought, you know, he could incite more violence if he's left on the platform. Now, he's back on, and he's got -- it sounds like he's got Elon Musk in his corner.
LOTTER: Well, one of the things Elon Musk talked with Donald Trump tonight about was the protection and honoring of free speech and the celebration of free speech around the country and around the world.
Look, you know, you and I talked about these many times, Jim, over the years. Now, with X or Twitter back in Donald Trump's arsenal, he has a larger reach every time he takes to his full social media platform, then watch the Super Bowl, which is the most watched event in in the world and definitely in our country. That's a huge platform. That's 89 million people that are following him on X, in addition --
ACOSTA: Yeah.
LOTTER: -- to the people that are following Elon Musk. It's a massive communication tool that no one else has it.
ACOSTA: But Tim -- I got to go to a break, but Tim, I mean, one of the things I have to think inside the Harris campaign that that they're saying right now is, oh, yes, we want Donald Trump to do more press conferences, we want him back on social media as much as possible, we want him to talk about conspiracy theories about crowd sizes, we want him unleashed, we want him unplugged, go ahead, let her rip.
RYAN: No doubt about it. Let him -- let him go. You know, he's not on message even, him and Musk tonight. Musk was trying to talk about being aspirational and -- and how these technologies can change the world, and Trump just drug it right back into the gutter, about the dirty politics.
[23:15:08]
And, I mean, that's -- that's the contrast in this election. He cannot be an aspirational candidate. He cannot talk about the future. He's got to bring up all of the criminal -- you know, crimes and all of the prosecutions in the last election. And even with an opportunity with Elon Musk to really elevate the conversation, he didn't do it.
So, let him go out and -- and have these conspiracy theories. It just makes the case of generational change. Joy -- joyful candidate, a happy warrior candidate versus a grumpy guy who wants to talk about the past and a vice-presidential candidate who's got all kinds of other issues. That's dragging them down.
And -- and so, even with this great opportunity, he fumbled the opportunity with Elon Musk. I think the -- the Harris campaign should be very, very happy tonight. They got a lot of material that they're going to be able to use for the next 90 days.
ACOSTA: All right, we've got more to talk about after the break. Stay with us. Elon Musk, a new force, the 2024 presidential election. My next guest has new reporting on the billionaire's latest political moves, "Inside Elon Musk's Hands-On Push to Win 800,000 Voters for Trump."
"The Wall Street Journal" reporter Emily Glazer joins me now. Emily, thanks for bearing with us during that conversation there. You have some very interesting reporting. You write about Elon Musk launching this big-time Super PAC to help elect Donald Trump. But less than three months, he fired most of the vendors that they had hired. How is all that going?
EMILY GLAZER, REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Well, there's less than 90 days till this election. And in typical Elon Musk fashion, if things weren't working for him, he made it -- he made a switch, and one that a lot of people wouldn't otherwise have made.
Elon has spending roughly an hour weekly meeting with political vendors, and they're trying to get roughly 800,000 low-propensity voters to get out the vote in these battleground states that are crucial for Donald Trump's reelection campaign.
ACOSTA: And he is an erratic player, there's no question about it, but he has brought along other big donors. How big of a factor could that be in this election?
GLAZER: There are a lot of what we would call big whales that are very vocal in their support. We've got folks from Elon's PayPal mafia days like David Sachs. We've got Antonio Gracias, who's a former Tesla board member, current SpaceX board member, to Sequoia Capital partners, Shaun Maguire, Doug Leone, Kenneth Howery. I mean, you name it. These are people that have known Elon for a number of different years, and they're also very vocal about their support.
We're seeing a slight shift in Silicon Valley that is now becoming more rightward leaning. It's certainly not everyone. It's still a really liberal place. But there is a noticeable shift when you look at the Silicon Valley folks and the executives that are being more vocal about their support for Donald Trump.
ACOSTA: Yeah, it's not the Silicon Valley of generation ago. No question about it. And Emily, you reported last month that Musk had committed around $45 million a month to this Super PAC. That report did not sit well with him. What is the latest in all that and why did it not sit well with him?
GLAZER: So, we reported that Elon Musk has told people that he was contributing around $45 million a month. In our article today, we reported that in the spring, when his consultants asked, you know, what kind of budget do we have to work on this, they told him it was roughly $160 million. So, Elon has said that it's a lower amount.
He also has previously said that he -- there were no discussions about being a special advisor in Donald Trump's presidency if he's reelected. And what we saw tonight in the conversation on X is that they talked about that more than once.
So, I would just say that, you know, take what you hear at face value. We stand by our reporting, and we feel really confident about it.
ACOSTA: Absolutely. And very good reporting as always. Emily Glazer, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.
New polls show the race between Trump and Kamala Harris getting tighter in the key battleground states, in those blue wall states we talk about so much. Does the Trump campaign need a big strategy reset? We will talk about that, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ACOSTA: Polls are out. And if you're Donald Trump, well, you might want to start thinking about changing up your campaign strategy because the presidential race is getting much closer, especially in swing states Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, at least, according to "The New York Times."
Let's dive into the specifics. I've got CNN senior data reporter Harry Enten here with me. Harry, you and I talked like 13 hours ago or something. I've lost track in the space-time continuum. But -- I mean, the numbers are the numbers.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: The numbers are the numbers. And I did the math. We did speak 13 hours ago. We spoke in the 10 a.m. hour. Still on Monday. We're still in the same day, anyway. But, you know, you speak about the numbers changing, and I just want to take a look at what's going on in those key great bay -- Great Lake battleground states: Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan.
I want you to look at the trend line from May to August. Take a look here. May, when it was Biden versus Trump, Trump was up by three in Pennsylvania, one in Wisconsin. Biden was up by one in Michigan. But all tight races, all in all these states, Donald Trump is doing better than he did four years ago.
Now, jump ahead to August. What do we see? We see now Harris versus Trump, look at this, gains for the Democratic nominee. Harris is up by four. And all these states, her lead, her advantage, she is now doing seven points better than Biden was doing in Pennsylvania, five points better in Wisconsin, and three points better in Michigan, but jumps across the board.
But it's not just about these top line numbers. It's about what's underneath the hood. This was something that you and I spoke about, right? It's the economy stupid, as James Carville once said. Trust more in economic issues. Now, this is nationally, but we are seeing a similar trend in the key battleground states.
Look at this. Who do you trust more in economic issues? In July, 41% of voters nationwide said Trump compared to 35% who said Biden. Now, look how close we are. We're at 42% for Harris, 41% for Trump. But the consistent thing that we're seeing across all these polls, Mr. Acosta, is the fact that there's a trend away from Donald Trump and towards the Democratic presumptive nominee.
ACOSTA: It's -- it's a dramatic turnaround.
[23:25:00]
There's just no question about it. And what about voter enthusiasm for Harris now that she's at the top of the ticket? Something tells me that is going to be critically important in all of this.
ENTEN: Enthusiasm, enthusiasm, enthusiasm. Take a look here. All right, enthusiastic about voting for either Biden or Harris. Back in 2023, look at this, it was just 72% of Biden voters who said they were enthusiastic about voting. Look at where we are now. Eighty-six percent of Harris supporters say they're enthusiastic about voting.
That actually leads Trump, who only 80% of his voters say they're enthusiastic about voting. That is unchanged from 2023, basically, when Trump held the advantage on the enthusiasm question. Now, it's the Democrats who hold the advantage on the enthusiasm issue.
And just one little last thing on temperament. I think this is so important because we've seen Donald Trump kind of go off the rails in recent days, whether it be, you know, saying potentially that Kamala Harris's crowds were fake, they were AI-generated, no proof of that whatsoever. That just plays into this right temperament to be present.
Look at this. Fifty-five percent of likely voters in the key battleground states of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin say that, yes, Harris has the right temperament. For Trump, it's the exact opposite. Fifty-four percent say no, he does not have the right temperament.
You put it all together, Jim. You put it all together. This was just a very bad polling day in the past few days on the poll front for the former president Donald Trump, but I guess the good news for him is he still got a little bit around, let's say, 80 or so days, a little less than three months to turn it all around because he'll need it.
ACOSTA: Absolutely. And for Kamala Harris, if you're going into a convention, these are the exact numbers you want to see because --
ENTEN: Oh, yeah.
ACOSTA: -- out of that convention. It's possible she will have a bump. Most candidates get a bump coming out of a convention. That -- if that pads, this leads even more. That is going to be quite something. All right, Harry Enten, great to see as always. Thanks so much.
ENTEN: My friend, whether day or night, it's a pleasure to see you.
(LAUGHTER)
ACOSTA: Both day and night today. Thanks, Harry.
ENTEN: Thanks, Jim.
ACOSTA: Got to love Harry. And he calls me Mr. Acosta, which nobody does, so I appreciate that. Sara Fischer, Marc Lotter, and Tim Ryan are all back with me. Marc, I got to go with you first. You know, you saw those numbers there.
(LAUGHTER)
You know, did you anticipate this? You have to say -- I know you take your spin Meister hat off for just a second there. It is -- it is quite something that -- that has occurred here in this -- in this race. I don't think a lot of people would have predicted this, that Kamala Harris would be doing this well right now.
LOTTER: Well, even the president's campaign pollster, Tony Fabrizio, wrote a memo about this shortly after she was basically installed as the candidate, and said that he was -- she was going to get a honeymoon, she was probably going to get a bump, and she was probably likely going to take a small lead in the days leading up to Labor Day.
But as more and more people, especially in those battleground states, realize her radical policies, this thing will go back to where it was because, look, Kamala Harris is not going to do anything to secure the border. She's not going to lower prices. She's not going to deal with gas and energy prices. Those are all problems of her own creation.
And while that New York Times-Siena poll has many, many flaws in it and oversampled Democrats a lot, you go to something where it averages a bunch of polls like the real clear politics average. Donald Trump is still winning. He's still winning in Pennsylvania. He's still winning in Georgia. And Kamala Harris is performing seven points below where Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton were performing during their cycles in 2016 in 2020.
ACOSTA: All right, I -- I thought maybe you were going to give us maybe a slightly different response there. But you -- you did quite well in spinning it, spinning us in circles there, Marc.
(LAUGHTER)
Tim, let me go to you. Congressman, you know, Vice President Harris, she is set to release her economic agenda this week. You're there in the heartland. You're in Ohio. You talk to voters like this all the time. At some point, I don't want -- I don't want to say, well, there is something to this honeymoon thing. I mean, you know, I think what has happened over the last several weeks has been remarkable, to have a new candidate come in and do this well in the polling. I think that is -- that is quite extraordinary.
But at the same time, voters are going to want to see some details. They're going to want to see your economic plans. They're going to want to see other plans. How important is that at this point?
RYAN: Well, I think more than anything, they wanted generational change. That's what everybody talked about when it was Biden versus Trump. They wanted something new. They wanted a new vision. They wanted an aspiration. They wanted excitement. They wanted joy. Enter Kamala Harris. She gave that to everybody. And you see it on social media. The crowds are unbelievable. The buzz around her is incredible, even in republican areas where women are starting to move to her.
So, that's -- that's going to drive, I think, the election. But elections are always about economics. And she has a strong economic agenda to run on. Of course, costs aren't where we want them to be. There's more work to be done. But you cannot argue with the fact that the Biden-Harris administration is reindustrialized in the United States for the first time in 40 or 50 years.
[23:30:03]
Chip manufacturers, electric vehicle manufacturers. Now that Donald Trump is on board, too, that's nice. Battery manufacturers, natural gas, power plants. There's so much going on. This intel in Ohio is going to do almost $100 billion, and we finally re-shored chip manufacturing.
This is all happening because of the Inflation Reduction Act. We've got a huge infrastructure bill. That money hasn't even hit the ground yet to rebuild the country. And honestly, do the kind of things Elon Musk was talking about: high-speed rail, how do we build things here again with chips for the next generation, how do we use technology, broadband Starlink, whatever it may be. They have a long record of this.
So, not only is she going to win on the generational piece, she's going to win on the joy piece against the grumpy old guy. She also has a re-industrial play in the heartland where Trump is talking about --
ACOSTA: Yeah.
RYAN: -- how great it is to fire people. She's got -- all of the fundamentals moving forward are very, very strong for her.
ACOSTA: Yeah. And I have to wonder, Tim, you know, Donald Trump warming up to the idea of electric cars and Elon Musk's agenda. And so, how that's going to play with the oil and gas industry? I mean, it has been reported in -- in recent weeks that he has gone to the oil and gas industry and said, if you send a lot of money to my campaign, I'll do good things for you. That was part of the reason why he was railing against electric cars out on the campaign trail.
RYAN: Well, it's --
ACOSTA: Go ahead.
RYAN: It's the same -- it's the same conversation of, you know, how are we going to -- how great it was you cut jobs. Oh, I got to be with Elon now. He's for me. He has given me tens of millions of dollars, almost $100 million, so I'm going to be for him. It's like -- it's -- it's right in the wide open there. They want to cut jobs. He's going to go to the highest bidder.
Guess what? The average autoworker in Michigan, the steel worker in Western PA, they're not going to be the highest bidder, so they're going to get screwed in the process. And here comes the prosecutor with the populist bent, saying, I will -- I will be there to fight for you and for your economic justice.
ACOSTA: And the details that she offers, they're going to be hugely important. And Sara, you know, Kamala Harris has, you know, come under some criticism mainly from the press, that she's not doing enough substantive interviews, that she isn't doing press conferences. Campaign says she's going to do an interview, I believe, by the end of this month. It doesn't sound like that's going to happen before the convention.
At some point, she is going to have to fill in some of these gaps. I mean, it -- I mean, her defenders will say this is -- this is a campaign like no other. You know, she has had to jump into this almost like in a prime minister's campaign-type of schedule with 90 days to go and so on. She's a fresh new candidate. But those details are going to be important. And people are going be clamoring from it. And that clamoring is just going to get louder.
FISCHER: Yes. So, the polling that you saw, what that represents to me is that the electorate is looking at Biden's economic record, they were unhappy with it, and they look at Kamala Harris as bringing something new. The problem is, Jim, that goodwill is not going to last all the way through to Election Day in November. She's going to have to come out and explain how her economic policies will be different if she wants to continue to sustain that advantage in the polls.
The other problem with her not being visible enough is she risks being sort of attacked constantly by Donald Trump with having no substantial rebound other than what she's putting on terms of social media memes. That's not really effective when you're trying to reach an entire electorate.
Yes, there are 160 million Americans that use TikTok monthly, but the vast majority of older Americans are not getting their news on TikTok, they're not getting it through memes, they're getting it still from traditional television interviews, newspaper interviews, etcetera.
ACOSTA: Yeah. Marc, are you worried about, you know, how this truncated campaign might help Kamala Harris? I mean, they're just -- there's going to be fewer opportunities for, you know, problems to crop up, fewer press conferences, fewer interviews. You know, this has been a much longer campaign for Donald Trump than it has been for Kamala Harris.
LOTTER: Well, we're not really that far behind schedule because normally, in a challenger incumbent kind of a way, and in this case, they're both like kind of like challenger candidates, you're not usually decided till the conventions, and that's when -- and that's when you're fighting amongst your own family intra party. Now, once you get to the convention, you move on, you start defining your candidate. So, it's not that much different.
The only difference is that the campaign she ran in 2019, the policies about anti-fracking, defund the police, and all of the nonsense that she said that she then supported, she's now flip-flopping on and saying she doesn't support. So, basically, the voters are going to have to figure out --
ACOSTA: But there's no question --
LOTTER: -- Kamala Harris. Is she?
ACOSTA: But this is not the campaign that Donald Trump wanted to run. They wanted -- they wanted to run against Joe Biden. This is not that campaign. LOTTER: Well, we're still running against -- we're still running against the Biden-Harris, you know, immigration problem, the inflation problems, their war on American energy, the wars that are raging around the world.
[23:34:59]
She's, you know, boasts about being the last person in the Oval Office with the president. Now, she's going to own all the problems they created together.
ACOSTA: All right. Marc, Tim, Sara, guys, thank you very much. Really appreciate all the time tonight. Thanks -- thanks so much.
Big new development in the apparent hack of the Trump campaign, which it blames on Iran. Tonight, we're learning Trump ally Roger Stone's email was compromised. That reporting, next.
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ACOSTA: The FBI says it is tracking numerous attempts to hack the Trump campaign as several sources tell CNN the federal investigators believe Iranian hackers breached longtime Trump ally Roger Stone's personal email account as part of that attempt to get inside the Trump campaign.
That's not all. "The Washington Post" is reporting the Biden-Harris campaign was also targeted again, allegedly, by Iran. So far, investigators tell the Post those attempts were not successful.
[23:40:00]
CNN has also learned the FBI briefed Biden-Harris officials back in June about Iranian efforts to target them.
Let's bring in Andrew McCabe. He's a CNN senior law enforcement analyst and a former FBI deputy director. Andrew, great to see you. Trump immediately blamed Iran. The FBI confirmed they're looking into these things. The U.S. has not explicitly blamed Iran at this point. We've seen this story before. This is going to be an issue in this campaign.
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: Absolutely, Jim, it -- it will. I think what we're seeing is just this cycle's evolution of what has been a persistent effort by foreign adversaries to meddle in U.S. elections. We saw it notoriously in 2016 with the Russians, really set the bar very high. We saw in 2020 that the Chinese kind of entered the fray with some efforts that the intelligence community told us about at that time. And also, we saw a very small amount of activity from Iran.
And now, Iran has really emerged to the forefront. They've kind of capitalized on their experience in 2020, and they've elevated their game a little bit. It's a slightly more sophisticated approach going through the senior advisor, who we now know may, in fact, have been Roger Stone, to kind of use those -- those hacked accounts to mount their spear-phishing attack on the campaign fund.
ACOSTA: And "The Washington Post," Andrew, has a detail from the Trump campaign that after initially concluding they had been hacked, the team did not alert the FBI. How dangerous is it to keep law enforcement out of the loop here?
MCCABE: It's not a great idea. It's not typically the quickest and most effective way to mitigate the security -- security issues that you have on your hands, and also to understand where this threat is coming from and how it might be undermining this -- the safety and security of the election.
I mean, you would think that the participants, the candidates in this election, would have a pretty strong stake in maintaining election security and putting our intelligence and law enforcement community in the best position possible to counter those threats. That, of course, the way you do that is by sharing this information with them.
So, it's a bit of a head-scratcher, but in the overall picture of everything that's going on between Donald Trump and the FBI over these many years, I guess it's probably not that surprising.
ACOSTA: Well, I mean, it is a touchy area. I mean, this -- this story, obviously, reminds us of what happened in 2016. And I'll tell you, Andrew, I -- I questioned Trump about what the Russians were up to in 2016. Here's part of what he said back then at that press conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA (voice-over): You say let's get tough, why not get tough on Putin and say stay out? Why not say that?
TRUMP: Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Andrew, and as you and I both know, after that happened, the Russians around that time, the Russians did hack into the DNC. That information did get out via WikiLeaks. Trump was praising WikiLeaks out on the campaign trail. The Intelligence Community later concluded that the Russians did try to help the Trump campaign. I mean, this kind of opened the door to a lot of what we're seeing now.
MCCABE: Absolutely did, Jim. We know that the Russians took -- actually mounted specific attacks in the hours after Trump made that statement. So, if there's ever any doubt that they were listening very closely to what he was saying, all doubt was erased in that moment.
That's got to be, and I hope it is, a very hard clip for him to look at today because I'm sure things feel very different now that he is the subject of the attacks from foreign adversary. That clearly has no good feeling for Donald Trump, right? Here, the guy who got rid of the nuclear deal, the guy who re-imposed the sanctions, and the guy who was on the stick as it were when the -- the U.S. government took out General Soleimani.
So, yeah, this is how it works. There are no friends in this sphere. Intelligence agencies around the globe are constantly trying to gain access and have influence on what happens here in the United States, and it looks like Mr. Trump is the target these days.
ACOSTA: Yeah. We're going to have to keep our eyes on this because, I mean, we still have, you know, a little less than three months to go. Plenty of opportunities, I think, are everywhere for this sort of thing to happen again. Andrew McCabe, thank you very much for your time tonight. Really appreciate it.
MCCABE: Thanks, Jim.
ACOSTA: All right. And Donald Trump last week brought up what he claims was a nearly fatal helicopter crash with San Francisco's former mayor, Willie Brown, except Willie Brown says he was not on that helicopter. So, who was? My interview with two people who were actually there, that's next.
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[23:45:00]
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ACOSTA: Tonight, new holes in Donald Trump's tale about a frightening helicopter ride with former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown. Trump told the story last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I know Willie Brown very well. In fact, I went down in a helicopter with him. We thought maybe this is the end. We were in a helicopter going to a certain location together. And there was an emergency landing. This was not a pleasant landing. And Willie was --
(LAUGHTER)
-- he was a little concerned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: But two people on board that chopper say Trump is forgetting a key detail. Brown was never there. Instead, Los Angeles Councilman Nate Holden says he was on the chopper with Trump as they discussed a failed bid to revitalize L.A.'s iconic Ambassador Hotel.
[23:49:57]
Former Trump Organization official Barbara Res confirms Holden's account and it lines up with what Willie Brown himself told our John Berman last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Have you ever been in a helicopter that made an emergency landing with Donald Trump?
WILLIE BROWN, FORMER SAN FRANCISCO MAYOR: No.
BERMAN: Have you ever been in a helicopter with Donald Trump?
BROWN: No.
BERMAN: You have no memory of anything like that ever happening?
BROWN: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: There you go. And with me now, former L.A. Councilman Nate Holden and Barbara Res, former Trump Organization executive vice president and author of "Tower of Lies: What My 18 Years of Working with Donald Trump Reveals About Him."
And Nate, it's -- and Barbara, great to have you both on. Really appreciate it. Nate, let me start with you. Tell us what happened on board this helicopter ride around 1990. You were there.
NATE HOLDEN, FORMER L.A. COUNCILMAN: I was there, for sure. I mean, I don't look like Willie Brown. I'm not Willie Brown. I'm Nate Holden. I was on that plane, that helicopter with Barbara and -- and Don -- and D. Donald. We called him D. Donald then. And as we launched from the launching pad and in flight, Donald Trump was saying, look at that skyline. Oh, my God, it's the most beautiful skyline in the world, and I'm part of it. Fine. He kept talking and talking and talking.
And shortly after we're in flight, the pilot -- before that, he said, I got two pilots. I have two. In case one dies, the other will save our lives. And the pilot said, shut up, shut up. So, waving back at him, quiet, quiet. And Donald kept talking. He says, quiet, the hydraulic system just failed, and I'm trying to land this helicopter manually. We had an emergency landing in London, New Jersey. Right near where I grew up. I knew the area. And that's what happened on that flight.
ACOSTA: Yeah.
HOLDEN: We landed the flight. He was still white as snow. Trump was very upset and started raising a lot of noise at the mechanics, who maintained the helicopter, asking by meantime the failure qualification of the helicopter. And given the fact that one had crashed about six months earlier, killing three of his top executives, he should have been demanding that they do reliability, determine meantime the failure, and keep those flights, those helicopters in flight.
ACOSTA: Wow! And Barbara, you were there, correct? You have some recollection of this as well. This sounds frightening. What was your recollection? How did Trump react? And you can confirm Nate was there, not Willie Brown, correct?
BARBARA RES, AUTHOR, FORMER EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT OF TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Yeah, absolutely, it was Nate. I brought Nate from California to meet Donald on Trump Tower, to talk about this ambassador project. And when we got there, they said, oh, we have enough time, he's going Atlantic City, come up and meet on the helicopter. So, we said, okay. What choice do we have?
And we went on the helicopter. It was, you know, starting to be a little bumpy. So, one of the other two guys, I don't know if it was Robert Trump (ph) or the other executive, starts talking about when the sound meets the river, the air currents are such and such, and that's what forces turbulence. And I'm going, yeah, right. We're neuroscientists now.
Meanwhile, I'm seeing the copilot is pumping the hell out of some instrument he's got there on the floor, and I knew something was wrong. But, you know, then it really started shaking. And, um, he was very calm about it. He said, okay, we've lost a few instruments. We're going to have to land, emergency landing. I think he said we were landing at Teterboro. And it was shaking. Everybody was scared.
Trump was absolutely terrified, actually terrified. I know that from him because he wouldn't go on the outside elevator on Trump Tower unless I went with him. He's not good with this kind of thing.
Anyway, we landed in Teterboro. I don't remember him yelling at anybody. The one thing I remember is he made a big joke at us. He turned to Nate. He said, you know, Nate, you turned white. It was Trump who turned white. Nate was beautifully Black as he always was.
ACOSTA: Yeah. And Nate, you would think that Trump would remember the details of such a dramatic event and not confuse you with Willie Brown. Why do you think he was confused?
HOLDEN: Well, if he were confused, which I'm not sure he was, he could have been giving misleading information intentionally.
[23:55:04]
But if he were confused, Willie Brown, I served with him four years in the legislature. He was in the Assembly. I was in the state Senate. We were never confused. There was never a misidentification of the two of us during that time period. And Willie Brown was short, intelligent, sharp guy returning from San Francisco area. I'm a taller guy from Los Angeles. As I said earlier on, obviously, maybe to Donald, we all look alike.
(LAUGHTER)
ACOSTA: Well, Nate and Barbara, thanks for making very clear exactly what happened. Now that we have the details, we can move forward. Thanks -- thanks so much. Really appreciate your time. And thanks for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
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