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Laura Coates Live

Students And Teachers Killed In GA School Shooting; Trump Hints At What His Debate Strategy Will Be; Laura Coates Interviews Tom Corbett; Harris Economic Proposal Sparks Viral Memes; Producers Behind Controversial Trump Biopic Speak Out. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired September 04, 2024 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

TRICIA MCLAUGHLIN, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: In doing so, our leaders desperately need to recognize the grave situation when it comes to not only the 25% military deficit, we have a massive munitions problem, major deficit, but also the decommissioning of naval and aircraft ships. It's a huge problem and America needs to wake up to it.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: All right, quick one, Jamal.

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, my last one is, listen, I think the debate is going to be very important for Kamala Harris and for the Democrats. They need to make sure not only what she does during the debate is going to matter, but what happens afterwards. So, they need to make sure somebody is paying attention to taking those clips that happened in the debate, move them out, but also moving the candidate around so that she can follow through and make that debate.

PHILLIP: Something tells me they'll be doing just that. Everyone, thank you very much. Thank you for watching "NewsNight: State of the Race." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, America, it has happened again, and we cannot be numb to it. Another mass shooting. This time, in Georgia. Two students and two teachers killed when a gunman opened fire at Appalachia High School in Winder, just north of Atlanta. The 14-year-old suspect is in custody and will be booked tonight. He will be charged with murder, and he will be charged as an adult.

There are still a lot of questions remaining, not the least of which is how do we stop this from ever happening again. We're learning law enforcement questioned the suspect just last year over online threats to commit a school shooting. Local schools were alerted to monitor him. Police also confirming that he used an AR-15-style weapon.

And today, for some communities, just hours into a new school year, the heartbreaking reality is that four people just went to school and have lost their lives to senseless gun violence. And they are more than a number. We now know the identity of the four people who were killed. Fourteen-year-old students, 14-year-old students. Mason Schermerhorn, Christian Angulo, and teachers Richard Aspinwall and Christina Irimie. They belonged to someone. And who can begin to even imagine the pain of their losses tonight?

Well, today's events were a horrific scene that has played out time and time again, starting with the blaring sirens from a swarm of police cars that were rushing to the scene, then something no parent ever wants to see, images of students, perhaps even their own, being escorted out of their classrooms. Many of those frightened students, no doubt texting their parents, texts like this one, from a student to his mother. "I'm scared." "I'm leaving work." "I love you."

Other students witnessing the carnage first hand, like one 16-year-old who was sitting next to a suspected gunman moments before the shooting. Now, she says that he left their algebra class near the beginning. She thought he might be ditching. But he came back outside the classroom door a little bit later. But by that point, everyone knew that something was wrong. This is what happened next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LYELA SAYARATH, WITNESS TO GEORGIA SCHOOL SHOOTING: There's a knock at the door, so you look at the door, and he's there. And she -- she's there as well, and she looks and she sees him, and she says, "he's here." And we're about to open the door until the girl who's going to open it kind of steps back and is like, oh, wait. And then you just kind of see him through the little window turn almost, and you just hear shots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Another student says that she realized how serious the situation was once you heard the screaming in the hallway is getting louder and louder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANICE MARTINEZ, WITNESS TO GEORGIA SCHOOL SHOOTING: We got in a corner, some girls started crying, and then I was like, calm down. And then the teacher, she was shaking and everything. I was like, no, it's going to be okay because if you tell yourself it's going be okay, it's going to be okay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: About four classrooms away from where the shooting was happening, other students waited and hoped, hoped they were going to be okay.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAYDEN FINCH, WITNESS TO GEORGIA SCHOOL SHOOTING: We were in a presentation, and then all of a sudden, the hard lockdown screen came on our T.V., and then it was like a moment of just straight silence. And then you just hear gunshots, and everyone just runs to the corner. After about like 15 minutes, the police like unlocked the door and barged in. We had to like put our hands up. They had like searched us to make sure no one in here was like the shooter and they were trying to hide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Notice the way that young Jayden just described the hard lockdown screen coming across the T.V., as if many of us remember some microfiche or some movie coming on in a rolling A.V. cart. This is what children today are grappling with. Fifteen minutes of pure dread. Fear of not knowing if that shooter was going to enter their classroom. Other kids were forced to jump into action after the gunfire started.

[23:05:00]

One described in "The Washington Post" how her teacher went into the hallway to see what was going on, and he ended up getting shot. The student says, "There was blood everywhere. Another teacher put pressure on his wound with rags. Then she went to get police, and a kid from my class and I put pressure on the wound. My teacher was lying there saying, 'Good job.'"

The horror came to an end because of the actions of school resource officers who confronted the shooter and took him into custody.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF JUD SMITH, BARROW COUNTY, GEORGIA: They're the true heroes as well. They were actively looking. They had an alert, I guess, if you will. And when they interjected or when this shooting began, they interacted with the shooter, Mr. Gray. And as soon as they made a contact with him, he gave up immediately. Hate is not going to prevail in our county and hate is not going to prevail in our state. Pure evil did what happened today. That's all I can tell you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I want to bring in CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller, along with CNN law enforcement contributor and retired FBI supervisory agent, Steve Moore. Gentlemen, thank you both for being here.

Although, John, I had to tell you, how many conversations have you and I had about these very incidents? It is just so unbelievable to me that we, you and I, and all of us, continue to see this, to experience it as a nation, as parents, as human beings.

But let me ask you, because tonight the FBI is saying that the suspected shooter was apparently known to authorities and even questioned last year after previous threats to carry out a school shooting, what can we learn from those interactions last year that might assist in this investigation?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, in one way, we learn the system works. In another way, we learn that may not make a difference. So -- COATES: Hmm.

MILLER: -- in May of 2023, when the suspect in this case was a 13- year-old in the eighth grade in Jackson County, information about a posting that he allegedly made threatening a school shooting was forwarded to the FBI's National Threat Operations Center, which operates out of their main data center in West Virginia, and they ran that down till they got an address of a house where that computer resolved to.

They gave that to the Jackson County sheriff. The Jackson County sheriff went and interviewed the parents who said, yes, there are guns in the house but no, our child doesn't have access to them. They interviewed the child who, we are told, informed the Jackson County sheriff that threat wasn't posted by me, and he denied everything. They notified the local school district about this threat involving one of their students.

But then when he moved to Barrow County, went into the ninth grade, was a 14-year-old, you know, that information didn't follow him because he wasn't charged and there was no way for that really to travel.

COATES: I mean, Steve, on that point, the fact that there would have been, as John is articulating, no probable cause possibly to arrest the suspect after those threats last year, would there have been some monitoring at all after that? Would this have been the Georgia Bureau of Investigations versus the federal bureau? Is there some way to track or monitor after all that?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, what John is saying is very correct. We're going to have to change our paradigm, though. I mean, you would not understand how many -- well, you would, but how many of these threats come in every year. And so, the people who are at the -- at the level of meeting with the people at the -- who are the threateners, they get -- they get jaded by the fact that many times, these kids are just stupid kids making dumb things.

I think what they should have done in this case, there was a photograph of the guns, cop -- you know, compare them to the guns that they had there, and maybe this one should have been taken a little bit more seriously. But I don't want to put that on the officers who were there.

COATES: Hmm.

MOORE: This is -- we're learning new things.

COATES: Well, let's talk about that weapon, of course, John, because we're learning the weapon used in the shooting was an AR-15 style rifle, which a teenager couldn't lawfully buy under state and federal law or in Georgia, of course. Do investigators know where he got it?

MILLER: So, ATF has been doing the tracing on that, although I will tell you, the operating theory within the investigation is that he got it from the home. And that's going to bring a lot of questions, which is, well, when they move from one place to another, were the weapons secured in the same place? Were the weapons secured in the same way?

[23:09:55]

And, like other active shooters we've seen or school shooters, were the parents thought the child didn't have access? Had the child figured out either the combination to a safe or where the key was hidden, as we've seen in other instances? And that brings up the question of, you know, what happens after this?

COATES: John Miller, Steve Moore, invaluable insight you've given us. Thank you both. We'll rely on you continuously here.

I want to turn on that very question because joining me now is CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams. Elliot, you and I are parents. The idea of sending your kids back to school, I don't know about you, but mine have already had active shooter drills in a new school year. It's just par for the course at this point in time.

And here we are with the legal conundrums as well that are being asked. The Crumbley case recently has changed a lot of minds about accountability and what one can do to try to deter. But when you look at this, this is a 14-year-old, they're going to prosecute him as an adult.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yeah.

COATES: That was a pretty decisive and quick decision. Walk me through how that could have been made.

WILLIAMS: Right. Every state in America, Laura, has a process for trying people who are under 18 for serious crimes. Now, in Georgia, anyone between the ages of 13 and 17 who commits something really heinous, we are talking murder --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WILLIAMS: -- rape, armed robbery with a firearm, can be tried as an adult if the prosecutor chooses to do so. Now, there's weirdly advantages to going into adult court. You have a right to a jury trial in a way that you would not in juvenile court, but the penalties are much, much higher. You know, one could face life sentences or decades in prison.

Now, the big question looming over this is, is a 14-year-old ready (INAUDIBLE) to be tried as an adult to know the difference between right and wrong? Now, that's an open question that theologians and criminologists have debated for decades.

But, look, like you said, you and I are parents, and are you going to be the one to tell the people who lost their child today or even worse, someone who got text messages from their child today saying, I love you, Mom, I'm sorry, I haven't been a good daughter, are you going to tell them that therapy and juvenile court is enough?

COATES: Hmm.

WILLIAMS: I don't think it's that straightforward and easy a question for any one of us to answer.

COATES: I mean, so far, it'll be processed, right, as a juvenile in the sense of the initial holding, and then the transfers will begin for the presumption and, of course, for being tried as an adult. But you raised a really interesting point about having some level of hindsight and also some level of looking at other cases and how they've been used.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

COATES: The Crumbley matter, of course, a really important one and a data point here. I mean, this is an instance when we're trying to figure out where this gun came from. How does the Crumbley case, where a school shooter, his parents were prosecuted and both convicted, how does this impact a case like this?

WILLIAMS: Now, and for viewers who may not remember this, we lived through it over the course of this summer. Parents were charged as -- with manslaughter --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WILLIAMS: -- for a child's shooting. Now, look, that was an extreme case in which the parents had a meeting at the school with the firearm there in a backpack that they didn't look in, they had drawings, they had specific warnings, and it has shown that they were negligent.

Now, chum is in the water in America for parents to be charged with crimes for their negligent acts and not securing firearms and also overlooking some of the risks that their children present. So, certainly, depending on what we find out here and it remains to be seen what other information comes out, you know, there could be charges against the parent.

COATES: It's very early in the process. Remember, the Crumbley case also involved discussions about how the school might be held to account as well. That is still kind of an ongoing discussion.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

COATES: More broadly. Elliot, so glad you're here.

WILLIAMS: Thanks.

COATES: Thank you. Still ahead, Donald Trump hints at what his strategy will be during his debate against Vice President Kamala Harris. What he said he plans to do. And the big question tonight, is it going to work?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is -- this is a woman who is dangerous. I don't think too smart, but let's see. But she loses her train of thought a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: That was Donald Trump tonight at a Fox News town hall in Pennsylvania and what might be called the pot calling the kettle black. Just Google Hannibal Lecter or sharks, windmills, oh, and the weave. Now, Trump did reveal part of the strategy that he'll take against Vice President Kamala Harris at next Tuesday's debate. And he said that he's going to -- quote -- "let her talk."

Let her talk. Hmm. Well, to be clear, the rules ABC released tonight don't really give him a choice on that. He can't interrupt. At least you can actually hear it. The mics will be muted, a lot was happening about that, when the other candidate is speaking.

There is no pre-written note allowed, but they will have a pen and paper available. So that's when they come back on stage and start frantically writing on all the talking points they're supposed to remember from backstage into the lectern. And no, even though they will be meeting face-to-face for the very first time, which I still find shocking, they will be unable to ask each other questions.

That Tuesday debate could make all the difference in the world in an incredibly tight race, especially in the battleground states. A new CNN poll out today shows that Pennsylvania, Georgia and Nevada are all jump balls. Trump has a slight edge in Arizona, and Harris has a slight edge in both Wisconsin and also Michigan.

I want to bring in CNN political analyst Laura Barron-Lopez, former Democratic congressman Joe Crowley, and editor of the "National Review," Ramesh Ponnuru.

[23:20:04]

So glad that you're all here today. Let me start with you, Ramesh, on this because Trump is saying he's going to let Harris talk. Okay. Like he'd let Biden talk at one point in time. How is that going to work out as a strategy and what is behind it?

RAMESH PONNURU, EDITOR, NATIONAL REVIEW INSTITUTE: Well, necessity, I suppose.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

PONNURU: And also, his -- his campaign has been pretty clear that they don't want him interrupting, which is why we had that whole long protracted debate --

(LAUGHTER)

-- about whether there would be mics --

COATES: It was (INAUDIBLE). PONNURU: -- allowed or they'd be cut off when they weren't actually speaking. But I think that one of the questions is going to be how disciplined is Trump during this appearance because, frankly, he did not have a great first debate, his debate against Biden. If it weren't for the fact that Biden had a catastrophically poor debate, there would have been more attention to that, and, of course, now, Biden is not in the picture.

COATES: I mean, that's a great point, thinking about the focus. And I know you and I have talked in the past about the performance of Trump and how it was really overshadowed by the more obvious comments around Biden. But this idea of Trump calling her out for losing a train of thought, the rules that they've posted now for ABC, I do wonder who you think will be most benefited by them.

The mics are muted, there's no audience, they can't ask questions, there's no pre-written notes. That's not exactly a recipe for somebody who is undisciplined.

JOE CROWLEY, FORMER NEW YORK REPRESENTATIVE: Well, I think women across America are really happy that he's going to let her talk.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: Thank God he'll let her do it.

CROWLEY: Yeah, exactly. I think some of the -- some of the rules benefit others and vice versa. I mean, I think the fact that the mics are off probably benefits Trump to a degree.

COATES: Really?

CROWLEY: Yeah, because he won't be able to speak over her. I think that --

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT FOR PBS NEWSHOUR: (INAUDIBLE) from himself.

CROWLEY: Yeah, exactly. And I think, for instance, because there's no audience, that may benefit Harris, maybe, you know, from the cheering or maybe some of the outlandish statements. So, you know, I think it really is a matter at the end of the day, you know, the coin toss, who goes last, who stands where. They might matter, you know, nominally.

But I think in the end, what matters is what they're going to say that night. I agree with Trump with that. But, you know, she should be able to speak. Thank you very much, Donald. And she will -- I think she'll perform well.

COATES: I think that was the advice of Captain Obvious at one point in time as well. Laura, let me ask you because he is telling Fox that he heard Harris would get the questions ahead of time. That's absurd.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Uh-hmm.

COATES: We have no indication that that's even slightly true. BARRON-LOPEZ: Yeah.

COATES: But he's suggesting that -- what is he trying to do to put that out into the universe?

BARRON-LOPEZ: Well, it's part of a pattern from the former president, which is that it is expectation setting. It's trying to convince his base that everything is rigged against him, whether it's the election or it's debates or it's -- you name it. Everyone is against him, he is standing alone, and the entire system is rigged. Now, of course, it's not true. I mean, there's no evidence of that.

I think when it comes to who benefits more with mics off, I think Donald Trump does benefit more because the data shows that after the debates in 2020, when the mics weren't shut off and Donald Trump was interrupting a lot on Joe Biden, I sat in on focus groups where voters were not happy with how he was interrupting. Voters who had voted for him in the past, voters who maybe liked him, said that they didn't think it helped him.

And even in this last debate between him and President Biden, even though the mics were off, once he started moving to more personal insults and personal attacks, you saw even Republican-leaning voters say that they thought that that hurt him.

COATES: You know, maybe interrupting to maybe interjecting, there's a moment when Trump is now commenting tonight, if you've seen this, about a death step over comments made by Governor Tim Walz's brother, Jeff Walz. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: His brother endorsed me, and the whole family endorsed me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Okay, first of all, Jeff Walz, we don't know that he endorsed Trump. He did not endorse Trump. But he has supported him in the past. And Walz posted on his private Facebook page that he is 100% opposed to his brother, the governor's ideology, hinting that he had some sort of stories to share. And today, he expressed some regret for his post and then clarified what was behind the nature of these stories. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF WALZ, BROTHER OF TIM WALZ (voice-over): The stories I said I was referencing, I'll give you one example. We talked about it before that, my little brother, when we were younger, we would go on family trips and in a station wagon. And the thing was, nobody wanted to sit with him, because he had car sickness and would always throw up on us, that sort of thing. There's really nothing else hidden behind there. People are or assuming something else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, that's disqualified entirely. No one wants to sit next to you, forget about it.

[23:25:00]

You're laughing. But is this where we are right now?

CROWLEY: You know, look, I mean, he said this about the -- we all have family. I was in politics for 35, 36 years. I have family members who didn't agree with every position I took.

COATES: Yeah.

CROWLEY: And I'm sure, if they had the opportunity, some of them may not have voted for me. That's okay. Family is family. I remember being in the backseat, you know, in a station wagon.

(LAUGHTER)

I never got thrown up on, but like, you know, I'd rather sit next to my brother, maybe more than my sister, who knows, you know. But no, it is just family being family. I think that's -- but going just really quick to the notes. He's live once again. He knows there were no notes at the last -- at the last interview that CNN with Vice President Harris. He knows that there no notes, but he will keep saying it over and over again because it's also lends itself to the notion idea that maybe she's not smart enough, you know.

COATES: Hmm.

CROWLEY: Maybe she needs notes. I don't need it, but maybe she does. You know, it goes back to all these hidden little things that I think he does to kind of reinforce these -- these notions out. He talks about nasty -- he talks about how everybody is so nasty. He's the most nasty person in this game.

COATES: Well, I'll tell you, this is a pattern, though, about how much families have been part of the DNC, the RNC, trying to either humanize a candidate or suggest, like, look, you ought to vote for this person. They're just like you. This may be the counterpoint of that as well.

But the idea that Trump would be focusing on this, again, instead of policy differences, instead of the meat and bones of the normal discussions, why go this tactic?

PONNURU: Well, I think that we've seen this tactic used on lower levels. We've seen it in House races, for example. And it rarely works --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

PONNURU: -- because I think most voters understand that families are complicated, and they don't particularly like family business getting sort of dragged into the political arena in this way. I think in Trump's mind, it is -- it'll hurt, and that, you know, that recommends it to him.

CROWLEY: Like being a little weird hurts him.

PONNURU: Right.

CROWLEY: That was clear tonight, too. That came out in this discussion.

COATES: Yeah.

CROWLEY: I agree with you 100%. Family is off limits when it comes -- that actually -- I think actually humanizes me more, in my opinion, that he had that normal kind of back at the station wagon. No seatbelts back in the day.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

CROWLEY: You know, event that happened.

COATES: I mean, God forbid my two older sisters come on this show and tell you some stories.

(LAUGHTER)

The best stuff. You'd be like -- I don't know. I can't look --

BARRON-LOPEZ: I'm an only child, so I don't know.

CROWLEY: She is too young.

COATES: Oh, okay, well, then you know what? Well, then I'll give you the last word, only child. Go ahead, Veruca Salt. Go ahead.

BARRON-LOPEZ: No, I just think that, you know, Donald Trump may be focusing on this because you've seen Democrats highlight that the Kennedys didn't support RFK, and then also so many of his former administration officials, so people that used to be very much aligned with him, are now saying that they would not vote for him. So, he's taking this win where he can.

CROWLEY: Good point.

COATES: For those of you who don't know my movie references, that was a Willy Wonka thing, and Laura Barron-Lopez is a good egg. Thank you, everyone, so much. Well, could it all comes down to Pennsylvania and who might have the edge? I'll ask someone who knows the ins and outs of that state. Former Republican governor Tom Corbett is next.

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[23:30:00]

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COATES: It's no secret the race for the White House will come down to a handful of battleground states. And key among them, the prize of 19 electoral college votes in none other than battleground Pennsylvania. And if you find the race as closely as we are, you're probably biting your nails because CNN's new poll shows that Harris and Trump are neck and neck there.

But that's not where it all ends because a full 15% of voters in Pennsylvania are telling CNN, they haven't yet decided on a candidate and could change their minds.

With us now, former Republican Pennsylvania Governor, Tom Corbett. He's an advisor for "Keep Our Republic," a group focused on strengthening trust in our electoral system. Governor, thank you so much for being here this evening. Listen, the neck --

TOM CORBETT, FORMER PENNSYLVANIA GOVERNOR: My pleasure (ph).

COATES: -- the neck and neck polls are quite significant. I mean, the idea of 15% saying that their minds are not yet made up, that's a lot of people saying that. What do you think will be the deciding factor for voters in Pennsylvania?

CORBETT: Well, I will tell you, I mean, there's so much time -- it's a little time between now and the election. Anything could happen. And Laura, as you know, in politics, we always wait for what is the October surprise. Who's going to have a surprise that may swing the vote one way or the other, or which candidate is going to have a major stumble? Not a major game, but a major stumble that helps you have a candidate.

So, uh, in Pennsylvania, we see the candidates quite a bit. Uh, the vice president has been here a number of times, now the president, uh, nominee. Uh, Governor Walz has been here quite a bit. Uh, former President Trump has been here quite a bit and so has, uh, Senator Vance been here quite a bit. I think we're going to continue to see them.

And in Pennsylvania, it's good to get here. Our people love to see the candidates come to Pennsylvania. And we are a very diverse state. We have Harrisburg as the center, but you have Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, two major metropolitan areas, and we have a very large rural population in between. So, we kind of like to see the candidates come and visit us and see who we're going to vote for.

COATES: Well, then you all must like it a great deal given the frequency of both campaigns coming there. Although I have to tell you, governor, after the summer we've had, I'm not sure anyone is ready for another surprise, let alone in October. Well, we'll wait and see. Let me ask you, though, if you have decided who you are voting for, and do you intend to support that person on the campaign trail?

[23:35:01]

CORBETT: I'm not supporting anybody on the campaign trail because I'm committed to what we're doing to keep our republic, which is a non- partisan effort in a bipartisan way with former Republican and Democrat elected officials, former federal judges, U.S. attorneys.

You're familiar with the U.S. attorney, Laura. I was a U.S. attorney. I was in a system just like you. I've been associated with that, trying to bring some calm to the election process, especially from the night of the election itself when the polls closed all the way up to and including the inauguration in January. So, I think it's incumbent upon me not to state any preferences to the candidates who I may vote for. So, I'm going to not answer that question for you right now.

COATES: Well, that's the equivalent of taking the Fifth, and I'll give it to you as a former prosecutor myself. Let me ask you --

CORBETT: (INAUDIBLE).

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: But there have been a number of people who have come out to say their position one way or the other and, frankly, after the DNC, and a number of Republicans who were on the stage, and including now, most recently, you've got the former congresswoman and Republican, Liz Cheney, coming out to support Harris and the Walz ticket. What do you make of the choice of some of these very high-profile Republicans to have expressed their support at this time?

CORBETT: Well, I -- frankly, I'm surprised that it was breaking news on former Congresswoman Cheney doing that because I thought she had already announced that that's where she was, and particularly thought that that's where she would be.

COATES: Earlier today, on this point, particularly of election integrity, which I know you are very passionate about, governor, Attorney General Merrick Garland accused Russia of attempting to interfere in the 2024 presidential election. He also detailed a number of cases the DOJ has prosecuted against people who have threatened election workers. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: If you threaten to harm or kill an election worker or official or volunteer, the Justice Department will find you, and we will hold you accountable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: You are working with "Keep Our Republic" to push back against election disinformation and one aspect of it. What do you think actually needs to be done to not only keep election workers safe, but also to restore faith in our elections?

CORBETT: Well, I believe that's what our mission is, is try to restore that faith in the elections. You know, you're talking about people that are working at the polls who do this twice a year. They do it in the primary and they do it in the general election. They're not anybody other than your next-door neighbors and friends and family that are there. They shouldn't be the subject of any kind of intimidation threats or anything like that.

So, I think the attorney general was absolutely correct in doing that and going after those who were trying to create outside influence. We've had a concern, I've had a concern, about that outside influence. Twenty years ago, we didn't see that because we didn't have the internet the way we have it today, and that has certainly changed everything.

But I think it's important that we have free and fair elections, that everybody who's entitled to vote can vote, the vote is counted, and that those results are certified as promptly as they possibly can within the law and sent to Washington for the count in front of the Congress.

COATES: Governor Tom Corbett, thank you so much for joining us this evening.

CORBETT: Thank you for having me.

COATES: Vice President Harris unveiling more of her economic policy today. And one proposal has the memes popping off tonight. I'll explain, next.

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[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Vice President Kamala Harris unveiling a new wave of economic proposals today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Part of my plan is we will expand the tax deduction for startups to $50,000.

(APPLAUSE)

It's essentially a tax cut for starting a small business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Her plan also includes cutting red tape for small businesses and increasing the capital gains tax rate to 28% for wealthy Americans. And this last proposal is setting the internet abuzz with a flurry of memes, you've probably seen them, hoping to put some perspective into the controversial plan, like, if you have these bathroom faucets, or a fridge that looks like this, or If this is your Tupperware, perhaps you don't have to worry about the capital gains tax.

(LAUGHTER)

That's funny. I want to bring in CNN economics and political commentator Catherine Rampell and Shark Tank Judge Kevin O'Leary. He is also chairman of Leary Ventures. Good to see you both today. I love getting a little bit of a laugh. Some memes make me know the internet is unbeatable.

Kevin, let me begin with you for a second because this capital gains tax, what you may pay, of course, on investments when you sell them for a profit. Harris is actually paring back from what Biden proposed, 39.6%, now to 28%. What are your thoughts on this pullback?

KEVIN O'LEARY, SHARK TANK JUDGE, CHAIRMAN OF O'LEARY VENTURES: Still too high because capital gains taxes are not just domestic, they're internationally competitive. So, you have to look at where you stand in terms of tracking capital fall around the world. You want to be kind of in the middle where we are now. That proposal would bring us to the bottom, fourth quartile. And last time we did that, our companies moved to Ireland like the pharma companies.

COATES: Hmm.

O'LEARY: And so, it makes companies contort to get to where it's more competitive. Not a good proposal.

[23:45:00]

But I'm not sure any of this stuff is getting through. I mean, these are just -- both candidates seem to be just throwing stuff at the wall. I get it. This is a kind of a proposal where really probably damage capital coming into America.

COATES: I do wonder, just practical speaking, would it really encourage you to consider moving your businesses if that was the level in your investments out of the country? I mean, could really do that right at this point?

O'LEARY: Yeah, I would do that. I mean --

COATES: Hmm.

O'LEARY: -- remember, capital gain is really about how you make money. And so, it's a long-term thing. You can set up your headquarters anywhere on earth. It's not about the people.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

O'LEARY: You can move your headquarters to Dublin, which is where all the American companies moved last time we had 28% capital gains. And you still make a lot more money and just keep your employees in America. But your headquarters are where you report income. It's a bad idea. Look, I don't blame her for doing it. She's not answering any questions on this stuff. She's just bringing it out there. It sounds great. Will never happen.

COATES: Cath, let me bring you into this because there's this question, one of whether unrealized gains should even be taxed or not. That's the increase in value of an asset you haven't even sold yet. A Harris campaign surrogate, Congressman Ro Khanna, is warning Harris against actually pursuing this particular policy. Listen.

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REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): I get why, but this is not the right way to do it. And also, 95% of investments in startups fail. And so, you're going to disincentivize investments in those startups.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Is the proposal unreasonable?

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN ECONOMICS AND POLITICS COMMENTATOR: Oh, there are two things that we're talking about here, right? One that you were just asking Kevin about has to do with what tax rate is paid on capital gains presumably when there's a realization event, right? Like I buy a stock, I sell the stock, how much did it go up? I've realized those gains.

The other question is, what do you do about gains that essentially go on tax forever because there's never a realization event? If you're a really rich person, you can leave your assets to your heirs and whatever gains you saw over the course of your lifetime will be wiped out and everything gets reset when that stuff is inherited. It's something called the step-up basis.

And so, as a result, you do end up with a lot of appreciated assets, whether it's a stock portfolio or an art collection or anything else where the gains never get taxed. But I do think that's a problem.

The specific proposal that we are referring to about taxing those unrealized gains today is basically something that the Biden administration has come up with. It's not new to Kamala Harris as a presidential candidate per se.

And I think it would probably be kind of administratively unworkable, the idea that you like tax the gains as they are -- as they are being accrued, even if the stuff never gets sold or the person who owns them never dies and passes them onto their heirs.

I think there are better ways to get at this sort of unfairness in the system like get rid of the step-up basis, like when somebody dies, treat that as a realization event.

So, it's all technical. But I do think it is unfair that, you know, there are a lot of rich people out there who can kind of legally gain the tax code and ever see taxes on all of the money they've made over the years.

COATES: I mean, imagine that, the ultra-wealthy getting a benefit in gaming a system.

RAMPELL: I know. It's shocking.

COATES: Kevin, let me ask you this point. I mean, you've helped entrepreneurs jumpstart their small business. There's also this proposal about a $50,000 tax deduction for businesses. How does that sound to you? Do you think this is viable and a move in the right direction?

O'LEARY: Look, I'm very happy that you talked about small business because you've got to remember her administration for the last three and a half years brought proposals where trillions of dollars were spent, Inflation Reduction Act, Chips and Science, infrastructure, not a single dime for small business. Two and a half trillion dollars, zero. She said it was 50% of jobs created. It's actually 62%. And I'm glad she woke up this morning and discovered small business.

But $50,000 is a nothing burger for small business because the majority of costs today are state-based regulatory costs. So, California, for example, the reason you don't get new startups in California, minimum wage and all the regulatory environment have chasing business out of there. All of the smaller businesses are going bankrupt because they can't afford it. So, she can't pull off 24 million jobs. It's not a federal mandate, it's a state-based. Small business is based on geography.

I applaud her for talking about it. Where was she for the last three and a half years on 2.6 trillion of spending?

[23:50:00]

I read all those acts. Not a dime for small business. Thank you for thinking about us today. I am small business, so I read those acts.

COATES: You are small business? Kevin O'Leary, I never thought you'd admit to it. Catherine Rampell as well. Nice to talk to both of you. We'll have to see how both campaigns address these points. Thank you so much.

RAMPELL: Thanks.

COATES: An October surprise at the box office? The producers of the highly controversial Trump biopic, "The Apprentice," join me next with an update on their battle to even get the film released.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Well, everyone may be highly anticipating "Wicked" and, of course, "Gladiator" hitting theaters for this fall's version of Barbenheimer. "Gladiator?" "Glicked?"

[23:55:00]

Never mind. Let me go back to the point. There's a different film that is being dubbed as the most controversial of the season. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Well, I intend to acquire The Commodore. I'm planning on making it the best and the finest building in the city. Maybe the country. In the world, Judy, in the world. It's going to be the finest building in the world. It's going to be a spectacular hotel. Absolutely spectacular. First class. And uh --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): That sounds very ambitious. Where do you get the drive? You're still so young.

UNKNOWN: I got flair, and I'm smart. So, I think that's going to make me successful. But I also want to stay humble.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: "The Apprentice" details Donald Trump's rise to fame in New York City in the 70s and the 80s. The film, starring Sebastian Stan, has a young Trump and Jeremy Strong as his attorney, and mentor Roy Cohn. It has had no easy path to release, by the way, after its debut at the Cannes Film Festival, major labels passed on making any offers.

The Trump campaign immediately spoke out, calling the film pure fiction and election interference. And then his legal team issued a cease and desist.

These responses have hindered the distribution of the movie so much so that the filmmakers were driven to start a Kickstarter to even raise the money. The film does hit some theaters October 11th before election day.

Joining me now, the film's executive producer, Amy Baer, and producer for the film, David -- Daniel Bekerman. Excuse me. Amy and Daniel, welcome. Thank you for both being here.

Let me begin with you here, Amy, because the movie, I understand, got a standing ovation at Cannes, but you had to take it to crowdsourcing through Kickstarter. Why has it been so hard to distribute this particular movie?

AMY BAER, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE APPRENTICE": Well, thanks for having us, Laura. You know, the movie has been gestating for a very long time. I had started the development of this project with screenwriter Gabe Sherman about seven years ago. And movies tend to take a long time to get made.

You know, we are making a movie about a real person and a real person who has an ability to control the narrative in the public square. And after the Cannes Film Festival, what you just talked about did sort of dampen the enthusiasm and interest from traditional distributors in Hollywood. But we do have a distributor now, and we are releasing the movie wide on October 11th.

COATES: Daniel, one of the companies that helped finance the movie, Kinematics, pulled their stake out of the film, citing creative differences. And that company is actually backed by the former Washington Commander's owner and Trump supporter, Dan Snyder. It's reported that Snyder was furious at the way that Trump was portrayed in this film, but also that he wasn't involved.

Your team says that the movie is not political traditionally. Can you make that claim? And who do you intend the audience to be?

DANIEL BEKERMAN, PRODUCER, "THE APPRENTICE": Well, look, in terms of Kinematics, you know, it's incredibly hard to make any movie. And Kinematics was instrumental in us getting the movie made, so I'm grateful to them for that, and we're focused right now on getting the movie out to audiences.

And to your question of who the audiences are, I think the audiences are people who are hungry for a new point of view on this subject matter that people talk about all day, every day. And what I think we bring to the table is really the storytelling point of view.

And to tell a good story, to make a good movie, I think you've got to respect your characters. You also can't finger coat what you're saying about your characters. You've got to be lucid. And I think that's what Ali Abbasi, our director, has really achieved very well.

COATES: Amy, why release the movie now? Do you have any concerns given, frankly, what the campaign is articulated, that it's some sort of the Hollywood elite engaged in election interference? What do you say to that claim?

BAER: You know, it's an easy claim to make. The reality is this movie has been in the process of getting made for seven years.

COATES: Hmm.

BAER: If I had a crystal ball and was able to predict that this movie would be ready to get released in the middle of a campaign where the former president was running for re-election, I'd probably be one of the smartest people in all of Hollywood.

(LAUGHTER)

But it really -- it really came together in its own time frame and that is the truth. In terms of entering the fray, I think the movie is a real humanistic approach to these two characters. It's not just about the former president, it is about the relationship between Roy Cohn and his protege, Donald Trump. And that is a well-documented, well-known relationship, but there hasn't really been a lot of exploration of it.

[00:00:03]

And we really try to approach the story and the characters from a humanistic standpoint so that you can really understand who they are and what the essence of their relationship was.

COATES: Daniel, we have very limited time, but I am curious, what you want audiences to take away from this film?

BEKERMAN: Well, first of all, I think what's exciting is the opportunity for people to make up their own minds and possibly have a bit of a new perspective on this. And I think people are going to have to see the movie.

You know, Donald Trump hadn't seen the movie when he made threats against us during the Cannes Film Festival. But what he did do is he deterred, you know, he threatened any distributor who would dare to put bring the movie to audiences. That's why we're now -- we're bringing the campaign directly to audiences. We're asking them to partner with us through our crowdfunding campaign on Kickstarter. So, that's a really exciting step we're taking right now.

And in terms of a takeaway, it's -- honestly, I think there's something this movie has to say about themes that are bigger than just the character who's named Donald Trump. There are things about this movie about the origin of a worldview that's, you know, at the center of the discussion we're having with ourselves and our society.

COATES: Very interesting. I was having a little bit of sound, but thank you so much, both of you. Very intriguing. Amy, Daniel, thank you so much.

And thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.