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Laura Coates Live
Boeing Starliner Returns To Earth; Judge Delays Trump's Hush Money Sentencing Until After Election; Dick Cheney Backs Kamala Harris; GA Shooting Suspect And Father Appear In Court. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired September 06, 2024 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: The Vice -- the first lady was there, here in New York, just a couple of days ago. Everyone, thank you very much. Thank you for watching "NewsNight: State of the Race." It's a good Friday to watch "Laura Coates Live." It starts right now.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: We begin with the breaking news on this Friday night. Boeing's troubled Starliner capsule is about to enter the final moments of its high-stakes journey back to Earth. NASA just gave it the final go ahead. So, if all goes well, we'll see it land back on solid ground in New Mexico within the very hour. I'll be your pilot for live coverage here on CNN as it all happens before us.
Now remember, the capsule is coming back empty, un-crewed, in NASA speak. And yes, you're remembering it correctly, this is the capsule that wasn't supposed to be un-crewed. It was supposed to have two astronauts coming back home in it, Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore. And they are staying put on the International Space Station. As you know, in fact, they'll be there until February.
NASA made the decision to keep them there for their safety after lingering issues popped up with the capsule. NASA simply couldn't risk a disaster. Remember, the astronauts got to space on Starliner back in June. It was supposed to be a quick eight days or so. But now, it's going to be more like eight months in space. The return, though, is still a high-pressure moment for both NASA and Boeing with, frankly, billions of dollars on the line.
Let's go right to CNN's space and defense correspondent, Kristin Fisher, who's at Johnson Space Center in Houston. Kristin, good evening. Take us what we're going -- through what we're going to see as the Starliner returns to Earth tonight.
KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: Laura, this is really the moment of truth for Boeing Starliner. We're now just about 17 minutes away from the moment that NASA was so worried about, from the moment that really was at the center of NASA's reason to keep Butch and Suni on the space station and not send them home on Starliner. And the moment that I'm talking about is the deorbit burn and re-entering the Earth's atmosphere. The deorbit burn is going to happen at 11:17 Eastern time.
Essentially, this is a breaking maneuver. You're going to have four big rocket engines fire, slowing the spacecraft down from orbital velocity at about 17,000 miles per hour. It's going to slow it down by about 300 miles per hour. And then what you're going to see, once it slows down enough to drop out of orbit, essentially, you're going to see the crew module and the service module separate. Two separate things.
The service module is where all the problems with Starliner. That's where the faulty thrusters are, that's where the helium leaks have been. It's going to fall away, burn up in the Earth's atmosphere, and that leaves the crew module, which is where Butch and Suni would have been had NASA allowed them to come back on Starliner.
And so then at 11:45 p.m., you'll see re-entry of the crew module. This is when the heat shield is really going to be tested as this spacecraft endures temperatures of about 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit. We may also get a communication blackout with Starliner as the plasma builds up around the heat shield. That could last for about four minutes. Then at 11:56 p.m. we should see the parachutes deploy and slowly bring Starliner back down to Earth.
If all goes according to plan, it should touch down in White Sands, New Mexico just a few moments after midnight, going from what had been 17,000 miles per hour, Laura, to just four miles per hour. And that is really going to be the big test, that moment. If Starliner survives this really critical period, then, you know, Boeing can kind of look at NASA and say, see, we told you so, because Boeing has believed that this spacecraft was safe enough for Butch and Suni. But, you know, if by some chance, heaven forbid, something does go wrong here, then NASA, of course, will know that it did make the right decision.
But even then, Laura, I should just caution by saying, you know, NASA says without a doubt, there is more risk here than they would like, more uncertainty surrounding this spacecraft. And so, when you're dealing with NASA astronauts, NASA just says, hey, there was uncertainty, there was risk, why risk it when we have another spacecraft, SpaceX's Crew Dragon that's tried and true, very tested at this point. You know, we could put Butch and Suni on even if it's, you know, many, many months away, Laura.
[23:05:01]
COATES: I mean, a poster child for airing on the side of caution to see what works. The precision of all of this, as you describe it, is so fast. We're going to watch and see what happens here. Kristin Fisher, stand by for us. We're going to check back in with you in a few minutes when they get ready to start moving towards that re-entry phase that you just described.
Well, in political news tonight, New York Judge Juan Merchan postponing Donald Trump's sentencing for his hush money criminal conviction. Mind you, it has been rescheduled not once, but twice. In fact, this time, Trump and, frankly, the rest are going to have to wait until after the November election to know what that sentence may be.
Judge Merchan seemed eager to avoid any partisan backlash in the final stretch of this unprecedented presidential campaign and stressing in his decision, saying -- quote -- "The public's confidence in the integrity of our judicial system demands a sentencing hearing that is entirely focused on the verdict of the jury and the weighing of aggravating and mitigating factors free from distraction or distortion."
I want to bring in former U.S. attorney and deputy assistant attorney general, Harry Litman, and former Miami-Dade County court judge, Jeff Swartz. So glad to have both of you on tonight.
Look, judge, I'll begin with you. Judges normally can turn with what they call hints of impropriety, right? A conflict of interest. They might know somebody, a litigant or otherwise. Now, it seems that you got to worry about perceptions of political bias. Should they be thinking about this? Do you agree with his decision to factor that in?
JEFF SWARTZ, FORMER JUDGE, MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT: I don't agree with the decision, to be very honest with you. A judge only has one constituency, and that's the law. It does not represent people. It doesn't have a party -- they don't have parties. They're there to enforce the law and the rules against everybody the same.
And my feeling is that his position should have been the delays in this sentencing, the delays in this case are by you, sir. They haven't been by the government. They haven't been by the state. And you put yourself in this position. And now you're going to have to listen to the sentence. And if there are consequences, they are consequences that you created.
I've been in that position before where I had to make decision against, in this particular case, a very powerful insurance company who didn't like what I was doing. But I followed the law. In the end, it cost me my seat on the bench. But I left the bench with my head held high, and I didn't really care that much because I was that proud of what I had done. I got treated by my colleagues completely differently than I really anticipated I would be, in a good way.
COATES: Wow! I find that fascinating to think about, right.
SWARTZ: So, I can tell you now, I have no sympathy for him.
COATES: Hmm.
SWARTZ: And I think that he should have called Trump out, not because he's Trump, but because he can't let anybody tell him how to run his courtroom because there's politics involved. That's my feeling.
COATES: I mean, Harry, just thinking about what the judge has described and the analogy that he brought up, I mean, look at this split screen. You've got Judge Chutkan in the January 6 case saying to the court, I think it was just yesterday, that the court -- quote -- "is not concerned with the electoral schedule" -- unquote. Can you reconcile why, and these are obviously different judges, different jurisdictions, different cases, all that is quite apparent, but can you reconcile the way of thinking for Merchan versus, say, Chutkan here?
HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, look, Chutkan, as she has done the entire time, said no, I'm not thinking about the election. Merchan had the same stance through the trial. I and the judge actually sat close to one another during it. And this came as something of a surprise. And you could almost feel Merchan's kind of loneliness and going back and forth. One thing that he pointed out, you know, that really hit home to me and maybe you, Laura, as a former prosecutor, is that the D.A. did not make any recommendation.
COATES: Hmm.
LITMAN: Almost in a winking way said, yes, go ahead and postpone it. It was all lonely decision on his part. Of course, as the judge says, these things can be lonely. But it obviously got to him. And in a sense, it was both the safe route but to my mind also, a little bit surprising. I thought the north star that he has set his sights by throughout the trial as same with Judge Chutkan is just, you know, just do it normally as you would for a defendant. Let the chips fall where they may. Ignore the election.
COATES: What do you mean in a kind of a winking way? Obviously, the idea of the prosecutor not opposing a delay, you know, any time the prosecution in the defense are on the same page about a scheduling issue, it does make it harder for a judge to go rogue and away from that, Judge Swartz.
[23:10:07]
But I do wonder about that impact that Harry is speaking about. Had the prosecution been pushing for an immediate sentencing and not suggesting that a delay may be appropriate for whatever reason, do you think that that may enforce the hand of Judge Merchan?
SWARTZ: It should have actually worked in the opposite.
COATES: Hmm.
SWARTZ: I think the fact that the prosecution stayed out of it, they did not want to be accused of creating a political issue for Judge Merchan to have to deal with or be accused of using politics in this particular case. They left it up to him. They gave him the -- they gave him faith. They believed in him and everything he had said during the course of the trial and basically said, we trust you with this decision. And I think to a certain extent, Judge Merchan let them down.
COATES: Well, you know --
SWARTZ: And he has to be above the politics. That's the way I look at it.
COATES: I was just going to say, excuse me, Your Honor, the idea that oftentimes in trial, and Harry, of course, you can (INAUDIBLE) this, the trial and the case belongs to the prosecution. Until there is a conviction, that is in the hands of the jury. And then sentencing, the case belongs to the judge at that point, right, to decide all these factors. And so, the waning influences, that goes down.
Let me just (INAUDIBLE) on the screen for you, guys. I think that the actual timeline of this case is particularly fascinating on where we are because it was moved not just once, but now twice. You've got in there -- of course, the Supreme Court immunity ruling being a part of this as well. And just look at the original date, would have been July 11th. If you look at July 13th, that was the day of the attempted assassination of Donald Trump, followed by the RNC that following Monday.
Just looking about this calendar all the way to November, I think gives really interesting context for the people of the United States to see how this has been conducted so far. But we're still waiting on the big answer, Harry, right? I mean, do you think that there is a chance for a sentence that would include jail? And how would it be carried out, especially given the complications of Secret Service protection and, of course, an election looming in November?
LITMAN: Right. And as to that, let's just start with if Trump is elected, even though he's -- he can't pardon himself. I think the courts, the Supreme Court, if no other court would find a principal (ph), you cannot put the sitting president of the United States in the pokey. They can't meet with Putin there, etc. But if he's not, I do think he's in hot water. It does in some ways release this burden that was obviously heavy on Merchan's shoulders. And this is the kind of -- it's a judgment call. Many of the of these convictions don't end -- result in jail time.
But Trump's conduct, remember, he violated the gag order there over 10 times, he was a generally obstreperous defendant. My best guess, you know it's up to Merchan. My best guess is he will see a short incarceration (ph) sentence for a couple months, anyway. And then parole. You know this as well as I, as the judge. That's not -- that's no picnic either to be under the jurisdiction of the court for a period of years.
COATES: Judge, really quickly, we have a very limited time.
SWARTZ: If I could jump in --
COATES: Go ahead. Yeah, what do you think the sentence would be?
SWARTZ: If I could jump in on one thing. It very simply is this, is that if he were to be sentenced, he's not going to jail right away. The sentence would be over by the time his appeal was over. So, he's going to get a supersedeas bond. He's not going into jail right away. The difference is --
LITMAN: That's right.
SWARTZ: -- that the public would see the system working. They would see that he is a convicted felon. They would see that he is sentenced, not because it hurts him, but because the public has to know that the system is going to work against everyone if that's what they deserve. And in this particular case, Judge Merchan had those options available to him.
Donald Trump is not going to go to jail the first day. That is not going to happen. Okay? So, I don't think that's a concern for us right now. If he was sentenced right now, he'd be out campaigning the next day. It would not make a difference.
COATES: Harry, Judge, thank you both so much. Really fascinating conversation.
LITMAN: Thank you.
COATES: The politics of this is also very fascinating. We'll talk about that soon. But just ahead, we are minutes away from the moment of truth for Boeing's Starliner, as it appears to fire the thrusters for deorbit. We'll go back to Johnson Space Center and see if Houston has a problem.
Plus, former V.P. Dick Cheney was a long-time punching bag for Democrats. Well, now, he says that he's voting for a Democrat. Her name, Kamala Harris. And tonight, she is responding.
[23:15:01]
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COATES: Now, if the un-crewed Boeing Starliner is going to make it back to Earth safely, right now is critical. Starliner is connecting a maneuver called a deorbit burn, which slows the craft down.
CNN's Kristen Fisher is back, and she is at Johnson Space Center in Houston. This is very exciting, to think about this happening. How is it going now, Kristin?
FISHER: So, so far, so good, Laura. The deorbit burn has started and all the thrusters are firing as of now. And so, when you think about the deorbit burn, think of it as a breaking maneuver. The spacecraft pumping on its brakes by firing four big thrusters called OMACs, the Orbital Maneuvering and Attitude Control Rockets. Now, this is critical because it needs to slow the spacecraft down.
[23:20:00]
It has been traveling at 17,000 miles per hour. They've got to slow it down enough so that it can drop out of the orbit and descend into the Earth's atmosphere. We do know that there has been a slight issue from the time Starliner undocked until now.
COATES: Hmm.
FISHER: The thrusters that we're talking about for the deorbit burn are on the service module, Laura. That's a separate part from the crew module of Starliner, which is where Butch and Suni would have been. When they were testing the thrusters on the crew module, which are needed after the service module and the crew module separate, which should happen in just about one minute if all goes according to plan, the thrusters, one of the thrusters on the crew module did not fire when they were testing it a little while ago. So, something to watch for.
NASA says that there's enough redundancy, there's enough backup thrusters, that it should be okay. But still to have one of the thrusters not firing during that test after other thrusters were having so many issues on the service module as it was approaching the space station back in June, that's part of the reason why NASA said there's just too much uncertainty, there's just too much risk, we don't want to risk putting Butch and Suni on Starliner. So really, as I've said before, Laura, this is the moment of truth for Starliner as it prepares to hit these really high temperatures on re-entry.
COATES: It really is. I mean, I can only imagine what's happening in their version of the control room as they're trying to figure out. I think we're learning just now that NASA is saying that that was a successful deorbiting. But that this is, as you mentioned, a concern, thinking about the testing, given that this would have been occupied by two astronauts as well.
We'll be back, Kristin Fisher, in just a few moments as we get ready to see Starliner begin their official re-entry as well.
Now, back on Earth, the former president accepted the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police today in the battleground state of North Carolina and also seized on the sentencing delay.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The big news today is that the Manhattan D.C. witch hunt against me has been postponed because everyone realizes that there was no case because I did nothing wrong. It's a witch hunt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: It's not what the judge said. And to be clear, Trump was found guilty of crimes by a unanimous jury of his peers, 34 counts of falsifying business records.
Joining me now, former National Republican Senatorial Committee aide, Liam Donovan, senior political correspondent for Puck, Tara Palmeri, and Democratic strategist Ameshia Cross. Good to see you all here as we are also on the watch for Starliner to return. But here on Earth, we've got our own set of things that are quite foreign to most judicial systems. Politically, Liam, politically speaking, had the sentencing taken place before election day? I wonder, would it have helped Trump?
LIAM DONOVAN, FORMER NATIONAL REPUBLICAN SENATORIAL COMMITTEE AIDE: You know, the salience would have been higher. I think a lot of this is kind of baked in. It is faded in terms of the consciousness of what people are thinking about voter-wise. But I think you're right, it would have been some rocket fuel raising money as it did back when the first charges were prosecuted.
So, I think that sort of attention is something that would have shaken up the race in a way that would have been a distraction, and I think shaking up the news cycle in a way that would have been unfavorable for Harris. It sounds backwards to say that sentencing would help him. But casting himself as a victim, I think, would be a change in the news cycle in a way that would be disruptive at a time when Trump needs to disrupt the news cycle.
COATES: And, of course, now, it's still -- I mean, he can talk about it. It will not be in the rearview mirror by the election. But again, to remember for the American public, this is not a part of the Department of Justice, that is part of, obviously, the federal government. It's Judge Merchan in a state court proceeding.
But, you know, Ameshia, I want to go to you because in a surprise twist, former Vice President Dick Cheney is revealing that he is voting for Kamala Harris, and he issued a statement saying that Trump -- quote -- "can never be trusted with power again." Now, Cheney, he was once reviled by Democrats for his part in the Iraq War, in a CIA interrogation program, among other policies as well. Is there a risk in embracing his endorsement for Democrats?
AMESHIA CROSS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I don't think so because his endorsement is not one that's going to -- is not going to be one that determines what Democrats actually do on Election Day. What his endorsement could do is showcase for Republicans who are Republican stalwarts. They are the Reagan Republicans, they are the Bush Republicans, they are the non-MAGA Republicans that they, too, can join into the fold. That doesn't change their conservativism.
[23:24:51]
They can remain conservative and still want to protect our democracy and lead it to function, unlike what we saw from Donald Trump who, if Project 2025 is to be believed and his work to undo the last election just because he lost, I think that there is a lot at stake.
What we see here is that Dick Cheney was willing to put aside his conservativism to say that, hey, there has to be a path forward. That path forward is not going to lie in Donald Trump. I think that that's more of a call out to Republicans to stand on that side than it is anything for Democrats.
And as we saw at the DNC, of all the Republicans who spoke, they are trying to help to build out that big tent for this election cycle. They're not saying that everybody who's joining who may be a conservative is all of a sudden going to change their stripe. What they are saying is that what is at stake is our democracy. And if you care about that, if you are a true patriot, then you are going to support the Harris-Walz ticket.
COATES: There is that permission structure that's been developing. You're right, at least, since the DNC. I wonder how the voters will take that. And Tara, former Congresswoman Liz Cheney, she had a pretty scathing assessment of Trump and Senator J.D. Vance today. Perhaps no surprise her opinion of at least the former. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ CHENEY, FORMER WYOMING REPRESENTATIVE: This is my diplomatic way of saying it. They're misogynistic pigs. I do think people really need to sit down and think through what would it mean to put this depraved human being in the most powerful office in the world, and why that's a risk we can't take.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Tell us how you really feel about it. I mean, she plans, Tara, to campaign against Trump in key battleground states.
TARA PALMERI, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: Right.
COATES: But I wonder, what do you think her influence would be among voters today?
PALMERI: I think it helps if you're trying to win over those Nikki Haley voters. This election will likely come down to suburban men, actually. Men with college-educated degree, latte dads, anti-Dobbs voters who often have daughters. Men that may have voted for Trump in 2016, and then voted for Biden in 2020. And these are the men that Donald Trump is, in fact, trying to target through grow pods, through his messaging, but that Kamala Harris also needs to win over.
And so, I think this idea that voting for Trump is a vote against women, which is essentially what Liz Cheney is arguing, it might have some appeal to these men who maybe are on the fence this election, who will be the determiners of who wins. So, I think it helps with the Nikki Haley voters, it gives permission.
And I think as many Republicans as Kamala Harris can win over, the better for her, right? I mean, she's an unknown figure right now. People are still trying to figure out who she is. So, she gets some credentials. It makes her seem more moderate and maybe balances some of the comments she made in 2019 when she was against fracking for Medicare for All and decriminalization of border crossings. It makes her appear more moderate in the swing states that she needs to win.
COATES: Liam, do you see a world where Vice President Cheney's president, George W. Bush, whatever, come forward?
DONOVAN: I'd be surprised. I mean, this is personal for the Cheney family, I think, the former vice president's backing up his daughter. She's obviously very passionate about this. I'd be surprised if the former president actually got himself involved.
But I think Tara made an important point, which is it's not enough to be anti-Trump. If you think about the voters that decided the last two elections, you know, it was the people that sat out and washed their hands of the choice in 2016, voted for Biden in 2020.
And Harris's fundamental choice, she needs to reassemble that Biden coalition. A lot of those people had buyer's remorse after they pulled that Democratic lever. These were the double haters. I think they have another fresh look at Harris.
And having that permission structure that you mentioned, Laura, is important. And these are people that are familiar with Bush or with Vice President Cheney. They're not necessarily considering themselves Republicans now. Remember, Liz Cheney lost her republican primary by 40 points just two years ago. But this is important to those, let's call them Romney voters, Bush-Cheney voters, and they're going to be important at the margin in key states.
COATES: You know, you're nodding along on that point, Tara. You agree?
PALMERI: Yeah, I absolutely agree. I mean, these are the voters that are up for grabs right now, and Kamala Harris needs to be talking to them if she wants to win this election, particularly in Pennsylvania. It's a kind of winner-takes-all state, 19 electoral college votes, and that's a state that the Trump team is very bullish on, and they believe they can win over these men who are on the fence right now. They believe they can win over those men who voted for Biden, who may be Republicans.
And let's not forget that in 2020, Trump won -- lost, sorry, 10% of men in Georgia. They're those Romney Republicans. They're those Brian Kemp Republicans. You know, doesn't help Trump that he attacks Brian Kemp, the very popular governor of Georgia. But those are the men who are up for grabs right now. And those are the men they're targeting.
And so, Kamala can in any way have a way to speak to them. And through the Cheneys or through any other Republican figures who are willing to come out like Adam Kinzinger, I think that's a huge boon for her.
[23:30:02]
COATES: I mean --
PALMERI: She should lean into it.
COATES: Really quick, I know we have very limited time, Ameshia, but do you -- do you see this as in any way problematic for some of the more liberal or progressive Democrats to have this sort of strange bedfellows, or will it only be additive to the campaign?
CROSS: I think we're definitely going to hear from them. There is no -- they have been very vocal over the years about the Cheney legacy, about the Bush legacy. And I think that coming out of that, you're definitely going to hear from them. But I don't think that it is going to be as forceful just because there is a recognition that everything is at stake this election cycle. And that when you expand the tent, we know that also means that there are going to be some people that you may not agree with everything on.
That's part of what this -- that's part of what this campaign has done. The Harris-Walz campaign is expanding that tent. They are representative of all of America. Donald Trump's is not. And I think that with that being said, there has to be an understanding that there are going to be some people there that are considered strange bedfellows. But we're all coming together to ensure that our democracy stands.
COATES: Really interesting to see how this is going to go down. Thank you so much, everyone.
Well, we're about 15 minutes or so away from seeing Boeing's Starliner capsule start its re-entry. Well, it goes as planned. Former astronauts are going to join our coverage for the big moment.
But first, the suspect in the Georgia high school shooting along with his own father are in the court today for the first time. Ahead, the mother of a Parkland victim is here to respond and explain how the silent alert system that was used in Georgia can help save lives all across this nation.
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COATES: The families of victims in the Georgia High School shooting looking on as the 14-year-old suspect, Colt Gray, appeared in court for the very first time. His father, Colin Gray, showing up in the same courtroom less than an hour later. He is facing up to 180 years in prison. The charges against him include four counts of involuntary manslaughter, one for each person his son killed.
The faculty are saying those numbers, they could have been a lot higher if not for the silent panic button system, the one that alerted police to the horror happening inside the school. You know, it was implemented just one week before the shooting. And it's got many people asking, why isn't this same technology everywhere?
Well, it turns out there is an effort to get it into public schools all across this country. You know, several states have now passed legislation that is known as Alyssa's Law. It's named after Alyssa Alhadeff. She was just 14 when she was killed in the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland, Florida. Her mother, Lori, has been pushing to get the law passed nationwide.
Lori joins me now. Lori, thank you so much for being here with us and for the advocacy that you have been involved in. Thank you on behalf of mothers, parents, students, humans everywhere.
I want to ask you about the charges against the father in Georgia. It's just the second time that a parent has been charged in connection to a mass shooting by a minor. Do you think we are seeing a shift in America where parents are being held responsible as well?
LORI ALHADEFF, MOTHER OF PARKLAND SHOOTING VICTIM, ALYSSA ALHADEFF: I do think we are seeing that shift. I do think, absolutely, parents need to be held responsible if their child gets a gun and goes in and goes in to shoot up a school. Parents need to be accountable for their child and their actions and their behavior.
COATES: I mean, police in Georgia are praising the silent alarm system. They say that that saved so many lives. It's -- it's not a law there in Georgia yet, but you've been pushing for this kind of technology to be implemented all across the nation. Could you explain how these alarms actually work?
ALHADEFF: Sure. So, if there was a panic button like this used, so in a medical emergency, the button is pushed three times. In an active shooter situation, it's pushed eight times or more. And so, this was the panic button the teachers were wearing around their neck. That was used at Apalachee High School and honestly definitely saved lives. And we passed Alyssa's Law now in seven states, and our goal is to pass Alyssa's Law nationwide as a standard level of school safety protection in every school across this country.
COATES: I mean, we're seeing, as you mentioned, seven states. We're looking at a map right now as you and I are conversing right now. And again, it's named after your beloved daughter. And it is being considered in several others. Do you think what happened in Georgia, frankly, is further support that it should be adopted everywhere, and is there a hurdle as to why it's not?
ALHADEFF: So, we need to have mass notification in these life- threatening emergency situations. Time equals life, and we need to get help on the scene as quickly as possible. So once that panic button is pushed, law enforcement can pull up the cameras, get eyes on the scene, it geofence the area, so the school resource officer can go and take down the threat and save lives.
And so, you know, the thing that -- it has to go through the legislative process and also there needs to be funding allocated for it.
[23:39:58]
But I believe truly that we can definitely fund this and pass this in every state. Just like we do in our banks, we have panic buttons, our schools need to have panic buttons, too, and have that layer of safety protection.
COATES: I mean, just thinking about the lives it saved in this instance alone. There was a spokesperson for the company that Apalachee High School used, and says that it costs $8,000 per school per year. Now, that would be roughly around $18 million a year to cover all Georgia public schools. What do you say to people who may have concerns about the cost involved?
ALHADEFF: So, there's other ways to roll out a panic button. It could be an app-based (ph) panic button, which is about $2,000 per school per year. But, you know, it depends on the school district and it depends on, you know, what best meets the needs of that school district. So, it might be the app, it might be a wearable, or it might be both. And so, we just want to have that layered approach to help protect our schools, and if a school shooting happens, we can get help there as quickly as possible.
COATES: I mean, just thinking about trying to put a price on the life of the loved ones. It's for so many people. They're grappling with this issue of what funding is used and the fact that there has to be something like this in schools and just the human toll that it's taking, emotionally as a nation and beyond.
Lori Alhadeff, thank you so much, and thank you for sharing Alyssa with the world. I appreciate it.
ALHADEFF: Thank you.
COATES: Well, we are moments away now from Boeing's Starliner re- entering Earth's atmosphere. We'll go back to the Johnson Space Center in Houston, next.
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[23:45:00]
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COATES: All right, this is it. We're going full Starliner from here on out. The un-manned Boeing spacecraft is set to re-enter the Earth's atmosphere just moments from right now.
We have an all-star team to help walk us through all of it. CNN's Kristin Fisher is back with us. She's at the Johnson Space Center in Houston. We're joined by two former NASA astronauts, Garrett Reisman and Cady Coleman. And Eric Berger is also here. He is the senior space editor at Ars Technica. I'm so glad you're all here at this moment. Kristin, this is another big moment in the re-entry. What are we looking for now?
FISHER: So, right now, the Starliner capsule is re-entering the Earth's atmosphere and hitting the highest temperatures that it is going to experience on re-entry, temperatures of about 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit. In a few minutes, we're going to see a communications blackout between the ground and Starliner for about four minutes due to all the plasma, the really hot plasma that builds up due to friction from the Earth's atmosphere on re-entry. So, this is without a doubt a very critical moment for Starliner. It's the moment that the capsule's heat shield is finally put to the test.
But, you know, Laura, the other really big test that NASA, in particular, was so concerned about, Starliner has already passed the flying colors and that was the deorbit burn. You know, NASA was really worried that some of those -- all those issues with the thrusters and the helium leaks might cause some problems with Starliner during the deorbit burn, which is essentially when those thrusters have to fire to perform a braking maneuver and slow the spacecraft down so that it can drop out of orbit and re-enter the Earth's atmosphere.
And so, since Starliner had issues with thrusters and helium leaks, they were worried at that moment that it may cause problems during the deorbit burn. But everything performed really, really well during the deorbit burn. And now, we're entering into that other critical moment.
So, we should be entering that comms blackout pretty soon. And then, Laura, if all goes according to plan, we'll see the drogue parachutes deploy, then the big main parachutes deploy, and hopefully, a very smooth landing just after midnight Eastern time in White Sands, New Mexico. If all goes according to plan, Laura, it should, I mean, very gently touch down in a breezy four miles per hour.
Thanks to those parachutes and thanks to some airbags that are underneath or will be underneath Starliner to really make sure it has a nice landing. So, so far, Boeing has to be very happy by what they're seeing right now, Laura.
COATES: I mean, Cady, what are you looking for knowing that this deorbit burn has been successful? As Kristi has laid out for us what to expect, what will you be looking for during this re-entry into Earth's atmosphere?
CADY COLEMAN, RETIRED NASA ASTRONAUT: Well, all just hoping that and watching all of the different ways to slow the spacecraft down because you have to eat. There's no crew inside, but this is the dress rehearsal for when there is crew inside. So just thinking about temperatures, what will the temperature be inside, and what are the -- what's the reaction of spacecraft when those parachutes come out? I remember in the Soyuz, it was -- it was a pretty big opening shock like within. The capsule was spinning. And so, looking at the stability of the capsule, things like that.
COATES: So, what could go wrong in terms of the parachuting or the slowing down process without that crew inside if there is like an override system that a crew could actually use that, obviously, an un- manned spacecraft could not?
[23:49:55]
COLEMAN: The one thing I know about is that when they do land, the crew could actually and actually does manually release the parachute, and that'll be done by the ground in this case. But on the way down, those things are pretty set.
COATES: Garrett, let me bring you in here. Do you think that NASA made the right call, leaving Butch and Suni, I mean, on the International Space Station, and bringing the Starliner back without them in it?
GARRETT REISMAN, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: Laura, yes, I do. I think they did make the right call in this circumstance. I think all those NASA engineers have made the call. If you ask them to wager and what would happen right now, they would have bet that we would have what we're seeing here, which is a fairly successful entry so far. They just weren't ready to bet somebody's life on it because of the uncertainty, the fact that they didn't know exactly what was wrong with it. And so, I think given that, they made the right call.
And so far, so good, but it has not been perfect. We've had another thruster failure. This one is one of the twelve thrusters on the descent module. They have 11 more. They have redundancy to be okay if no more fail. But if Butch and Suni were sitting in there right now, I would have a pretty high pucker factor, to be honest.
(LAUGHTER)
COATES: Well, tell me about those thrusters, though, because -- so what role are they playing specifically and is there a critical number that would have to fail for the redundancy to no longer matter?
REISMAN: So, I could tell you that what the thrusters do is they point the spacecraft, which is really important. So, it's like your steering wheel on your car. And if that doesn't work and you can't control where the car is pointing, bad things happen, right?
So, there were 28 thrusters on the service module, and that has been the focus of really all the scrutiny over the past couple of months. And of those 28, five of them failed. One of them failed so bad that they didn't try to even bring it back. They're coming home with 27. But they actually performed very well, all the way through the deorbit burn, and that was really the focus of the scrutiny.
COATES: Hmm.
REISMAN: But, however, once you throw those away, which they did right after the deorbit burn, then you're dependent on the remaining 12 thrusters, 12 different thrusters that are on the capsule itself. And one of those has failed. And I don't know, they have two systems of six, so presumably if they have more fail on the same unit, they could swap to the backup. I don't know exactly how many they can stand to lose.
COATES: Wow, just thinking about the mechanics is really, really fascinating to think about. Eric, let me bring you in. You know, a lot of the talks surrounding this particular mission, in part about the two astronauts who are no longer on it, but it has also been about the relationship between Boeing and NASA. Things have gotten a little tense between the two and a kind of space race. Can you tell me a little bit about why?
ERIC BERGER, SENIOR SPACE EDITOR, ARS TECHNICA: Yeah, I mean, Boeing has been very confident in the safety of its spacecraft and, you know, they view them as the owner of the vehicle and NASA is the customer. And so, they feel like the space agency ought to follow their lead when their engineers say that this spacecraft is safe. And the reality is Boeing feels like they provided all of the data to NASA that they needed.
But at the end of the day, NASA is the customer. They're essentially the regulator, and their engineers looked at it and said, no, we don't feel comfortable putting our people on it. So that's a pretty stinging rebuke, I think, to Boeing and really some of the tension involved there.
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COATES: We're looking right now at a live shot while you and I are speaking. This is a live image right now and feed of Boeing Starliner entering the Earth's atmosphere as you are seeing it being identified. Really interesting to look at what's going on there as we are watching this and wondering, whether all that we have described, whether the parachutes, eventually the ability to steer with the different thrusters and beyond to land safely as expected, what will happen now. And it's becoming bigger as it's coming clear into view and obviously closer and closer as it enters the Earth's atmosphere.
Kristin, can you describe a little bit about what you're seeing right now for us? What are you looking at with your mind?
FISHER: So, what you're seeing right now is Starliner right after it started reentering the Earth's atmosphere. We're coming out of this blackout period where Starliner just encountered some of the hottest temperatures that it's going to experience on re-entry. And you're seeing it kind of streak across the sky. And that's a view that was taken from a NASA aircraft.
It's going to be coming up the South Pacific Ocean, then crossing over the northern point of Baja, Mexico before crossing into a very remote stretch of New Mexico before landing in White Sands, New Mexico just after midnight.
And some of the other shots we've been looking at, in case you've been wondering, all those shots of like helicopters and trucks in the desert, that's a staging area for the recovery crews that have to rush out once the capsule lands.
COATES: Hmm.
FISHER: And they're going to be performing a variety of checks on the spacecraft once it lands. But, you know, Laura, just to put this all into perspective --
[23:55:01]
COATES: Kristin, we're learning as well that we are seeing --
FISHER: Oh, go ahead.
COATES: Kristin, we are seeing right now, it's in the Earth's atmosphere, and they are able to see Starliner from the ground now. Cady, talk to me about what it is you're seeing right now and the fact that it is now visible from the ground.
COLEMAN: Well, I think it's pretty exciting to folks across the Baja Peninsula and Mexico. And I think it's pretty amazing when you realize that there's really -- they're going to be, the next time this goes, that there would be people on board. And so, I think the fact that you can see, it just makes it that much more tangible. But they've still got ways to go. I mean, in about what, uh, well, right now we're looking for drogue shoots, I believe.
COATES: Yeah. I mean, Garrett, we're about -- yeah, I think we're about six minutes away from it being able to land. And as Kristin has described, Garrett, we're expecting there to be a communication blackout at some point in time. Is that going to be happening in this moment? It is happening now? Why is that communication blackout happening and what could be going on? REISMAN: Well, as the vehicle goes through that period of peak heating, it's inside a giant ball of plasma, which is just ionized gas. And it's superhot, like about 3,000 degrees. So, it doesn't really matter if I'm talking about Fahrenheit or Celsius, right? We're talking 3000, it's a lot. Okay? It's really hot. And so even radio signals can't penetrate that, and that's why you have this calm blackout for a period of time.
Uh, however, uh, it'll come through that. It'll -- it'll get through that period of peak heating, which for a capsule design like this is actually a relatively short period of time. And then, uh -- and then once it's lower in the atmosphere, then you get the parachutes that come out, and then the airbags deploy, eugenics and some heat shields, and it comes down onto the ground.
It's worthy of noting that Boeing has done this several times already successfully with this vehicle. They had two other flight tests where they successfully did open up the parachutes and land in the in White Sands.
COATES: What we're seeing right now, too, Garrett, I mean there's a big light. It's a strobe light that's visible. That's on so that it's easier for us to see it from the ground and, obviously, the -- those who are meeting it. It's about 12 miles, I understand, and five minutes from landing.
REISMAN: That's right. And what you're seeing there is, you're seeing -- it looks like now we're having some --
COATES: That's rapidly falling.
REISMAN: This is the drogue chutes coming out. And there they come.
COATES: What are we seeing?
REISMAN: Those are the drogue chutes. The first two parachutes that just --
COATES: Wait, here comes the NASA feed. Excuse me, one second. Let's listen in.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): -- now deployed. They slow the vehicle down. Initially until it gets to a safe speed for the enormous main parachutes to follow.
COATES: We're hearing the NASA feed intermittently as we're watching it descend quickly to the ground as well. The parachutes have been deployed.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): About four minutes to go until touchdown.
COATES: NASA is saying it is about four minutes to go until touchdown. We see the countdown there. Cady, there is two parachutes visible.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Now back to a view from the Cessna aircraft in the vicinity of the landing site. Again, this is a view from a little lower than the WB57 we were seeing. So, this is the initial shoots. And now, we're waiting for the main shoots. The next thing we're going to see here is the three main parachutes come out. And everything will happen pretty quickly from that point on.
After those mains are out, we'll see the bottom heat shield that has been protecting Starliner through its journey through the atmosphere come off. That makes way for the landing airbags to deploy.
And there's the main parachutes there on your screen. We see three out currently reefing. And the teams at the -- landing recovery teams report that they heard booms. As those came out, three good mains fully open there. You can see Starliner in a slight tilt. So, we're going to see the rotation handle move here shortly, and it will level out Starliner. But three good parachutes looking great.
Just a little over two minutes until the expected landing time. And we heard the rotational handle has been released. So, you can see that tilt evened out. Next up is the heat shield jettison. And there it goes. That again makes way for the airbag inflation. Nice to see that. You can see the airbags deploying there on your screen. Those airbags are filled with nitrogen as they guide Starliner safely back to the desert floor.
[00:00:00]
A beautiful sight as Starliner makes its way to the sands of New Mexico. And flight controllers confirming six good airbags. This view is still coming to us from the Cessna. We've got about -- just about a minute left to go until the expected touchdown. We'll be watching for that time for you. Just about 15 seconds away from expected touchdown. You're seeing the ground there in your screen as we get closer.
Touchdown. Starliner is back on Earth. That landing coming at 11:01 and 35 seconds Central time, 10:01 and 31 seconds Mountain time at White Sands Space Harbor at the U.S. Army's Missile Range in New Mexico. Our landing and recovery --
COATES: Touchdown, we've heard. Touchdown. Starliner back on Earth. It was successful. Kristin, let's go to you. This is very significant.
FISHER: Yeah, Boeing has got to be breathing a big sigh of relief. NASA, too. I mean, you still got to get the recovery crews on the ground to make sure everything looks okay. But I think it's almost safe to say, you know, if Butch and Suni had been inside Starliner on this return to Earth, they almost certainly would have been okay. But, you know, NASA is saying, with all those issues with the thrusters and the helium leaks, it just was not a risk that they were willing to take when they had a backup vehicle ready to go.
But so now the big question is going to be, does Starliner need another crewed test flight or perhaps another un-crewed test flight before it can be certified and be a fully functioning part of NASA's Commercial Crew Program? You've got Boeing and SpaceX who doled out these contracts in 2014 to ferry NASA astronauts to and from the International Space Station. So far, only SpaceX has been able to do it.
So, what happens now? Because this landing and reentry appears to be successful, does Boeing have to do another one of these test flights before it's certified? A lot of money is on the line, Laura. I mean, remember, this program, over a billion dollars over budget already, years behind schedule. So, that's really what Boeing and NASA are going to be focused on now.
But first, you got to deal with the recovery. So, what you're going to be seeing in just a few minutes are all these recovery crews. Boeing and NASA recovery crews that have been stationed at a nearby staging facility at White Sands, New Mexico, they're going to slowly converge on the capsule, do some checks, make sure it's safe before they proceed and officially end this mission. But a successful landing, certainly.
COATES: We're learning a mission -- we're learning that in Mission Control, there's cheering and clapping. It got all the makings of those sort of Hollywood movies when something has accomplished in this moment in time. Garrett, let me go back to you on this because we saw things coming off.
[00:04:58]
We saw, there was that moment when two of the parachutes had been deployed and they were trying to level out the actual Starliner. You can only imagine what that must be like if you were part of a crew inside of that. This was un-crewed. No crew was on board. But talk to us about what you were thinking as it was going down and descending in the way it did.
REISMAN: Well, it was a measure of relief. At that point, once the parachutes are out, the thing that we've been worrying about these thrusters, they no longer have a role to play. And really from that point on, it all happened exactly as you -- as by designed. And yes, it looks dramatic with a lot of moving parts, but as a crew member riding home in one of these vehicles, that's what you're trained to expect.
So, Kristin is absolutely correct. I mean, this is definitely a measure of vindication for a very hardworking team of Boeing engineers and operations folks that brought Starliner home. But there are open questions. And I think we're very anxious to get to the day where we're flying people in Starliner again.
I know both Cady and I have good friends that are signed up to be on the next crew that's supposed to be in Starliner, but there's going to be a lot of hard questions to answer first because there's no way that NASA and Boeing want to go through something like this again, where there's so many open questions.
COATES: Well, Cady, to that point, and you heard Kristin talk about that one of the big questions is, is this particular test run enough to placate and alleviate any concerns about having crews on board? Now that you have seen what has transpired, there's an element of, you know, hindsight being 2020. Do you have concerns about this being enough to alleviate those concerns?
COLEMAN: Well, I think there's a lot of data. I mean, one of the best things about having this capsule come down safely is that we're going to be able to collect a lot of data from the descent and understand the performance of the thrusters.
One of the big questions that they've wrestled with the whole time has been they've tested the thrusters in White Sands, but then how does that compare to how we expect them to perform in orbit? And so now that the capsule is back, they'll be able to take a look at the thrusters and understand more of that.
And I think that idea of -- you know, at NASA, we're always simulating. It's never exactly the same. But it has been a really big question. If we understand this down here, do we understand it up there? And I think they're going to get a lot of valuable data to be able to do that, but that will be the question to answer.
COATES: You know, right now, we're watching on the ground a kind of a caravan of -- a recovery crew en route to retrieve this Starliner. We should mention the reason this is -- right now, you're seeing it in black and white. It is, of course, darkness in New Mexico. The ability to be able to see with a kind of night vision is the reason it's showing up on your screens in this fashion.
Eric, this recovery, though, the idea of going to retrieve Boeing Starliner, talk to me a little bit about why this might be valuable in trying to determine the safety of Starliner in the future to perform the very functions that NASA has asked it to?
REISMAN: Well, it's important to get the spacecraft back and look at the condition of the vehicle. But really, the bigger concern, of course, was the performance of those thrusters on the service module. And NASA and Boeing did get some good data tonight on that vehicle when it was flying in space, and they'll talk more about that later, I'm sure.
But I agree with the other panelists that there are some very hard questions for NASA and Boeing to face. This spacecraft was launched, quite frankly, with -- this thruster has a known issue, and both NASA and Boeing signed off on that. And so, they're going to really want to get to the root cause of those problems before they put people back in this vehicle again.
COATES: You know, I have to just -- you know, as a layman, not an astronaut, looking at the precision and the expectations of what would transpire, Garrett, it happening in order. You know, the plan. It's almost like, you know, back in the day, the A Team, loving it when a plan comes together. But there's got to be a sense of --
(LAUGHTER)
-- you know, real concern and anxiety when you're waiting for all of those dominoes to fall right in line and how many different people would have to be involved in just making sure that everything went according to plan. REISMAN: Yeah, I love the A Team reference. That was great.
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So, yes, it was, you know, a lot of people working really, really hard, and they will learn a lot from what just happened. But Eric hit on something very important, which is the fact that the pieces of hardware that we really were interested in were disposed of in space and will never get back. So, we won't be able to tear them apart and look at them.
And so, we got to see, you know, what we could figure out by doing more ground testing and getting -- looking at the performance that we did get, because it's really important that Boeing gets through this and certifies this when we start using Starliner as another way to get people back and forth to space.
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This whole incident demonstrates why it's so important for NASA to have two different options so that you have choices. If something is wrong with one of your vehicles, you have a backup. And we need Starliner to be there to be that other option.
COATES: And yet, Cady, I mean, these -- the options, it's not as if one can just turn to the other one within a few hours, even the next day. You've got the two astronauts who are still there, Butch and Suni. You're talking, you know, next year, they'll be able to return. They've seen the success of touching down. I do wonder what you think they might be thinking, seeing the success of this operation.
COLEMAN: Well, I think that when the decision was made, it was in terms of it's a test flight, so there's some risk there. There's added risk because there's a problem with the thrusters and we understand it but don't understand how to make sure we can -- that we want -- that everything can go correctly. And so, was it the safest option for bringing them home? No, it wasn't.
So, I don't think anyone is shocked to see the successful landing here. And I think it was disappointing for them not to be able to climb in knowing they'd probably be safe on the ground, but it wasn't the right thing to do. So, I'm sure there's a lot of mixed feelings up there in terms of actually just being in space and spending longer. I can't see Garrett's face, but I think if you ask Garrett and I --
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-- we'd be up there. And, you know, they've been -- they've been the shepherds of this spacecraft for a long time, for a couple of years now, and not going on flights. And then they were going to come up for eight days. And now, they get to spend months. They're a fully trained crew. They're so good on orbit. And in these past two months with having so many people up there, it's literally a different space station with that to-do list like knocked out of the way. So, I think there's mixed feelings, both on the ground and up in space, but we're always learning. COATES: That's an important thing. It's kind of like that mindset of I don't have to do it, I get to do it. That's probably the best way to approach that over the next several months for them in particular. And, of course, living your whole life with this passion and now being able to be there must be very exciting under all the circumstances.
Eric, we're looking at the success of this particular endeavor, but it's not that Boeing will be left without a black eye in all this.
BERGER: No, it's really not. I mean, you know, this commercial crew program now really dates back to 2014 when Boeing and SpaceX both won contracts from NASA for these services. At the time, Boeing was really the gold standard in human spaceflight. Everyone at NASA felt that way. SpaceX felt they were kind of taking a flyer on.
And now, 10 years later, for SpaceX to have to fly up and bring Butch and Suni back eventually because NASA didn't feel Starliner was safe enough for its crew, that is really a devastating blow to Boeing and its position in spaceflight. So, it's important to see how they recover from this.
COATES: It will be. And, of course, there's -- for every cheer that's happening with Boeing, there might be a little bit of gloating on the other side when you're talking about this sort of space race. But both can learn from the successes or failures from the other.
And in the end, I mean, Kristin, let me go back to you. You have been covering this so closely. You have been our eyes, our ears, our mind on the ground to see this finally come to fruition. This is really fascinating and exciting.
FISHER: It is, and it's really the culmination of what NASA has been --
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-- trying to do for about a decade now which is, Garrett was saying, you know, have these two vehicles that could serve as a backup to one another in case a problem arose on one of them. I don't think anybody thought that the need for a backup --
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
-- would arise quite this quickly but this is indeed what NASA's Commercial Crew Program was all about, that backup system, that redundancy and, of course, the ability for NASA to outsource this ferrying of astronauts to and from the International Space Station to private companies so that it can focus on other things like getting astronauts to the moon and then Mars.
One more thing, Laura, just bouncing off to what Cady was saying. You know, I think -- I'm sure Cady, I'm sure Garrett, I'm sure most astronauts wouldn't complain about being forced to spend more time at the International Space Station.
I mean, I'm actually sitting in -- this is actually a full-scale mock- up of the International Space Station behind me at the Johnson Space Center. This is where Butch and Suni and probably Cady and Garrett trained for their missions to the International Space Station. So, they plan and train for all these contingencies, be an eight-day mission that's now jump to roughly an eight-month mission.
I think what may be harder is not so much on the astronauts, but on the family members of the astronauts who are left back on Earth. You know, Butch has kids and a wife. Suni has a husband and some dogs that she says are basically her children.
So, you know, speaking as the daughter of two former NASA astronauts, it's often tougher on the families that are left behind on Earth than the astronauts themselves who get stuck up there.
[00:15:00]
But I don't want to speak for Butch and Suni. I'm sure Garrett and Cady have some thoughts on that as well.
COATES: Well, let me tell you something. I'm not married to an astronaut, but I would have one heck of a honey-do list when he got home.
(LAUGHTER)
Thank you. Thank you so much. You're in space. What are you doing up there? I'm doing all this. It would be a whole conversation, you all. Thank you so much, everyone. NASA is going to be holding a press conference in the next hour. You'll be able to see that right here on CNN. Our coverage is going to continue after a very quick break.
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