Return to Transcripts main page

Laura Coates Live

Trump: There Will Be No Third Debate; Laura Coates Interviews Ohio Mayor Rob Rue; Feud Erupts Between Trump Loyalist Loomer and Representative Greene; NFL Quarterback Tua Tagovailoa Sustains Another Concussion; Laura Coates Interviews Bill O'Reilly. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired September 12, 2024 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It -- yeah.

RYAN GIRDUSKY, FOUNDER, 1776 PROJECT PAC: It's geriatric. It's mid (ph).

VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah.

GIRDUSKY: No one cares anymore.

JONES: Yeah.

PHILLIP: What does mid (ph) mean?

GIRDUSKY: It's just like bland. It's not anything interesting.

BOMANI JONES, PODCAST HOST, WAVE SPORTS + ENTERTAINMENT: You can find better than mid (ph), but it'll get the job done. It won't make your head hurt.

GIRDUSKY: Yeah, I'm waiting for something nice and explicit.

PHILLIP: I'm waiting for something dramatic to happen, too. Everyone, thank you very much. I guess maybe we have drama in our politics, we don't need it at the VMAs. A quick programming note, though, for you, guys. Tomorrow night, the comedians of CNN's new Original Series, "Have I Got News for You," will join me right here at the table. Trust me, you don't want to miss that.

Thank you for watching "NewsNight: State of the Race." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, throwing in the towel, Donald Trump decides against a debate rematch. But could anything change his mind? Plus, fear and hate in Springfield, Ohio. The city that has been torn apart after Trump spreads false claims of migrants eating cats and dogs. The city's mayor is live with me tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

And so, here's my question: Why doesn't Donald Trump want to debate Kamala Harris again? And does anyone know the real reason he doesn't want to do so? Is it because he thinks he lost or because he really thinks he actually won? And we watched him profess to be a winner at all times in the most consequential moments, even falsely claiming and doubling down at every turn, by the way, that he won the 2020 election. He has been relentless, fighting to prove it at every turn, even when the data is in front of him.

But now, Donald Trump is doing something that's against his nature. The man who loves huge T.V. ratings, the man who says he does not back down from a fight, apparently, does not now want to fight for a rematch or a fight in general with Harris. He's now going to skip a chance to appear before an audience of tens of millions of Americans, AKA voters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, because we've done two debates and because they were successful, there will be no third debate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Successful? I mean, the first one against Biden, okay, hands down, yes, TKO. But the one against Harris? Well, let's just read what Republican Congressman Mike Collins tweeted after the debate. He wrote, you want to know who won? Find out who refuses to do a second debate. And according to you, the American public, 53% said that Harris won. Only 24% thought that Trump won. It's from a brand-new poll that's out tonight, by the way.

Now, Harris was in battleground North Carolina today, rallying voters. She actually pushed for another debate and actually immediately delivered her usual stump speech. But she got to remix it a little bit with the standout moment from her face-off with Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Concepts. Concepts, no actual plan. Concepts. Forty-five million Americans are insured through the Affordable Care Act. And he's going to end it based on a concept.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Material she has got to use now from the debate. Material for her speeches, for her ads. And, of course, her campaign says she raked in $47 million in the first 24 hours after that debate. So, what did Trump get out of the debate?

Well, if his rally today in Arizona is any indication, he got some new grievance material, particularly grievance against the ABC moderators. You know what? He spent more than 15 minutes, more than 15 minutes on those moderators at the rally, saying they were unfair to him. They only fact-checked him and not Harris. And he even took issue, wait for it, with David Muir's hair.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I'm not going to watch it (ph). And his hair is not as good as it used to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: That was a quote. No AI. That's what he said. I want to get right to Bryan Lanza. He's now a senior advisor to Trump-Vance 2024 presidential campaign. Nayyera Haq is also here, a former Obama White House senior director. And Doug Heye, a Republican strategist. So glad you're all here.

Bryan, you're now officially a part of the campaign. I have to ask you about this because you've got a number of conservatives who are saying that the debate did not go well for Trump. Now, he's not going to debate a second time. He's talking about David Muir's hair. Not the substantive issues people want to hear about. What gives?

BRYAN LANZA, SENIOR ADVISOR TO TRUMP-VANCE 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, FORMER DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR TRUMP 2016 CAMPAIGN: Listen, sometimes, people have bad hair days. Here's what I would say about the campaign --

(LAUGHTER)

-- and the debates, the most important thing. When we look at the debate, we're like, what do we need to achieve? Donald Trump is well known, so there's nothing that's going to change in whatever his performance is going to be. Kamala Harris is not that well known.

[23:04:55]

And what we've seen in the polling, at least before the CNN debate or at least before the recent debate, we've seen CNN polling and "The New York Times" polling, that in spite of all the noise that we've heard in the last month about Kamala Harris moving to the center, about this amazing reset that she received from the media, where at one point she was the most unpopular V.P. in American history, she become the most popular V.P. in American history. Their messaging was working. More and more voters saw her as sort of moving a radical left, and they saw her as outside the mainstream.

So, what we looked at the debate is what can we do? It's not winning and losing on the performance, it's achieving the goals. And we achieved the goal of painting her as an outside, as a San Francisco liberal, who's outside the mainstream of Pennsylvania, outside the mainstream of Michigan, her positions where she supports, transgender changes for illegal immigrants that turned out to be --

NAYYERA HAQ, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE SENIOR DIRECTOR: Illegal aliens from space. Is that --

LANZA: Well, no, what it is, but actually proven to be true. The "Time" magazine has come back with the correct and saying actually that has proven and there's videotapes of her. So, what we achieved in the debate is we achieved completely painting her as a San Francisco liberal that puts her outside the mainstream, and we're going to continue to accelerate that because we believe that's going to be the path to victory.

COATES: That may have been your goal, but I wonder, I mean, what everyone has been talking about --

LANZA: Achieved it, too.

COATES: Well, you think so. But yet people are talking about -- well, the polling, we talk about the first poll debate that's out today. Harris narrowly leading at 47% with Trump at 42%. Forty-even, another number, million dollars, to be exact, is a huge haul. And I wonder, Nayyera, when people are talking about, to Bryan's larger point, about goals and what happened, neither can get overly confident.

HAQ: Yeah.

COATES: It's one data point. But it's a significant one to see what happened the other day.

HAQ: Absolutely. Listen, Hillary Clinton won both debates, and she was not sitting in the White House --

COATES: Right.

HAQ: -- at the end of the election. So, ultimately, the real goal is to win. And Trump has not managed to break 48%. Anybody who is trying to win the path through Pennsylvania, you need 3 to 5%. You need a certain number of votes in key districts. And many of those people are not that they're undecided, right? That's not who you're trying to get with exposure and television time, it's enthusiasm. You are trying to get people who only vote, maybe, in presidential elections or sitting out the rest of the year, who maybe were just depressed and anxious otherwise, who are now feeling a sense of optimism that something can change.

To get to those people and that enthusiasm gap that exists, Kamala Harris painted a very different picture of America, and she actually confronted Trump directly in a way that, frankly, many people have wanted to see. But also, Trump was not able to do that. The split screen, right? The non-verbal visuals of her taking arguments to him, then turning to the American public and saying, here's what I will do for you, was very effective.

COATES: And yet, Doug, Trump is not really talking about or touting his performance in the way he's claiming and talking about the debate. He's complaining about the moderators. There are a series of missed opportunities. In fact, he was at the rally today, and he has been clearly preoccupied with his performance on Tuesday. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Two nights ago, we had a monumental victory over comrade Kamala Harris in the presidential debate.

(APPLAUSE)

The two anchors, David Muir and Linsey Davis, sat there and only corrected me on things where I was right. People said that I was angry at the debate. Angry. I was angry. She immediately called for a second debate, which means that she was like a prizefighter that lost a fight. She's a liar! Liar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Okay, so, first of all, some of the fact-checking involved things like no state allows for the killing of a child after it has been born in the world, number one. Another one was about looking at the city manager when it came to Springfield, Ohio and that there was no reporting or widespread reporting of anyone eating animals and pets at that notion.

So, he's pointing out, again, the fixation of the correction as opposed to the opportunities to really point out perhaps his shortcomings or perceived ones for Kamala Harris. Why is he going down this route?

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: This is what Donald Trump does. About an hour ago, I got a call from my nephew who was in North Carolina, I know we're going to talk about North Carolina later, and he asked me specifically about the moderators.

And I'm a Tar Heel. He's a Tar Heel fan. I said, let's put it in college football terms. If you get called nine times on a penalty and your team has only been called once, you look at that and say, well, this is unfair, there's a disparity. But sometimes, in college football, one team held the ball or held the player, their opponent, nine times. The other only did it once.

And that's -- I think the reality here is Trump says these things that have so often tied up Republican opponents, Democratic opponents. He sorts of like wrestling with a cloud. But it's -- it's -- what we've seen is, in this case very clearly, he said a lot of things that just weren't true. And Kamala sure was on the left a lot, tried to tack to the center where she could, but she wasn't lying the way that Trump just habitually does. But ultimately, if we look at this debate, I think most people say, as your polling showed, okay, Kamala Harris won the debate, what's the result?

[23:10:00]

COATES: Hmm.

HEYE: The result is this was a close race going into the debate. It's a close race coming out of the debate. CNN had a poll the morning after that said, whose position on the economy is better? Trump's numbers went up two points. Kamala's went down two points. Now, a four-point shift isn't massive, but that's not the direction you would think things would go. If Kamala Harris cleaned Donald Trump's clock and, oh, my God, Taylor Swift got involved, that means this race is over. This is a close race. It's going to continue to be one. COATES: In fact, on this point, I'll get back to you, guys, in a second on this very notion, but you are from North Carolina, and today, Harris, of course, continues to think that that's in play. You see them going down there, trying to campaign, trying to secure it in many ways. Is it really in play, do you think?

HEYE: Well, the Biden camp thought it was more in play than Georgia was. Clearly, Kamala Harris is taking full advantage. This was her first stop. And what's interesting to me is not just that she's going there, but moving forward. Where does she go? And Charlotte and Greensboro, that's where Democrats usually go. Throw in Raleigh, Asheville, Wilmington, too, sure.

But if she starts going to places like Greenville and Hickory, and what about the 10 HBCUs that aren't just in the big cities but in places like Elizabeth City or Salisbury, North Carolina, that's telling me that she's seeing things a little differently and campaigning different. There's a real opportunity there.

And the one other thing I would say is I talked to a Republican consultant today. Lot of unhappiness with registered unaffiliated voters with Trump that all comes down to temperament. Trump has to fix that. And the debate could have been an opportunity for him. Go back to all those things where Kamala Harris is unpopular, where the Biden- Harris administration is unpopular. Immigration, the economy. Trump just got lost in his own rhetoric and got in his own way and prevented him from doing that.

COATES: What did he do about that?

LANZA: We continue to deliver a message. Immigration is a top priority issue. Inflation continues to be a top issue because people have suffered.

COATES: But his point is the temperament of the messenger matters.

LANZA: Listen, people have said that temperament matters for a long time. Donald Trump was president in 2016, so temperament doesn't matter. People right now want change.

COATES: And then he lost, right? That was the whole point that Kamala Harris made, is you got fired by the American public.

LANZA: Sure. And people right now in this election want change, and they just don't see Kamala Harris as a change agent. The CNN polling confirms it. "The New York Times" polling confirms it.

HAQ: I would -- I would disagree.

LANZA: So -- please, I didn't interrupt you, so I'm speaking here.

HAQ: That's right. The Kamala Harris line, I'm speaking, please.

LANZA: Yeah, and it works. And so, if that is the goal, then I think that's what the campaign is coming close to achieve. And so, we're going to continue to hit those marks. But you have to remember, when we're delivering these messages, you know, whether they're aggressive or sometimes we get lost in the sort of chaos of the day or the scandal of the day, you still have earned media, print media, and we still have a lot of programs that are delivering the message effectively.

That's why you see Kamala Harris being defined as radically liberal in all these polls. You don't see it on the cable news. You don't see it in the discussion, these exchanges, but there's still an apparatus that's delivering that message and is clearly delivering it effectively, which is why Donald Trump is viewed as the change agent at this race.

HAQ: I'm not sure what the logic is about the change agent because it's not necessarily the polling isn't testing on who do you feel is a change agent. Donald Trump is now -- Nikki Harris is the one who said -- Nikki Haley, rather, is the one who said this, right? The first party to ditch their 80-year-old candidate is the party that's going to get ahead and win.

Donald Trump is now the person that everyone that everyone has known for a really long time. He has consistently been this way, not somebody who his own strategists have said can focus on policy or stay on message. So, this is who he is. He's the known quantity. He's also, when we talk about the mental acuity challenges, again, it was two old men, it was a very stark contrast, adjust, frankly, by age and energy.

And Kamala Harris is now running the old Obama play. Keep as many things in play as possible. If you're the candidate that has enthusiasm and energy on your side, there's a value in that, rather than the, you know, one stop a day or the multiple hours of open executive time. What she's relying on, though, let's be clear, is a type of voter that has traditionally felt disenchanted. And Trump was very good about building that into his base from a certain sector. She is now going for, as you said, Black voters, younger voters. I mean, Gen-Z is all over the map with pumping up Kamala Harris after that debate.

COATES: Well, we'll see how it ultimately ends up. Obviously, different states in play. And both campaigns, as you point out, have a similar tactic and strategy of trying to get a particular demographic. The way they're doing it, though, and how it plays is going to make all the difference. I do think temperament is a really big, important aspect of how voters see a presidential candidate. Everyone, stand by. We have more to talk about.

Tonight, Donald Trump again spreading the lie that migrants in Springfield, Ohio -- I can't even have you say this -- are eating pets, days after he mentioned it in the debate in front of 67 million people, I might add. Now, Springfield has a very real consequence that they are grappling with over that lie, and that includes bomb threats. The city's mayor joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: City hall, multiple schools, even the DMV, they're all receiving bomb threats today in Springfield, Ohio. The threat coming after Donald Trump made these claims on the debate stage Tuesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: A lot of towns don't want to talk about it because they're so embarrassed by it. In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats. They're eating -- they're eating the pets of the people that live there. And this is what's happening in our country, and it's a shame.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: No, they're not. We can end the show. No, they're not. But he keeps saying it. And that trope used to otherize people, to scare and provoke disgust in people over immigrant food habits, is that what you're trying to do? Even if those claimed habits aren't true at all. And they are not, because officials from Springfield say -- and they actually had to answer these questions -- there has been no evidence that Haitian immigrants are stealing people's pets to eat.

[23:19:55]

So how did it even make it onto the debate, the presidential debate stage, where it was amplified to tens of millions of people?

Well, it started about a year ago. An 11-year-old boy, Aiden Clark, he died in a bus accident. The bus had been struck by a Haitian immigrant driving without a valid license. Now, that tragedy led some Springfield residents to air their grievances against the influx of Haitian immigrants into their community.

"The Washington Post" reports an unfounded claim was posted to a private Facebook group where the user claiming a friend of their neighbor's daughter found her lost cat hanging from a tree branch at a home where Haitian immigrants lived. And they were quote -- carving it up to eat" -- unquote.

That's when a conservative account on X then picked it up. And that post, it reached nearly 5 million people in just a few days. Police denied the rumors. But the claims, they kept coming in an internet storm of memes. Then came Senator J.D. Vance, posting this to X on Monday. Reports now show that people have had their pets abducted and eaten by people who shouldn't be in this country, he wrote.

Now, let's go back, that little boy. Tuesday evening, his father spoke out at a city meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATHAN CLARK, FATHER OF AIDEN CLARK: Using Aiden as a political tool is, to say the least, reprehensible for any political purpose. And speaking of morally bankrupt politicians, Bernie Moreno, Chip Roy, J.D. Vance and Donald Trump, they have spoken my son's name and used his death for political gain. This needs to stop now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: But the allegations, they kept coming. And they made it all the way to the presidential debate stage where Trump spread them on national television.

Well, joining me now to fact-check all this and to discuss what has happened since, the mayor of Springfield, Ohio, Mayor Rob Rue. Mayor, thank you so much for joining us. Your community has been thrust into really an international spotlight. And I wonder if you can first update me on this morning's bomb threats. Do you have any leads of who might've called them in?

MAYOR ROB RUE, SPRINGFIELD, OHIO: Thank you for having me on the show. As of right now, we do not have any leads on exactly who has -- we received them by an email. Everybody is safe. People were safely evacuated, and we've taken safety precautions to make sure everything -- everything is secure in Springfield after these threats. Just an extremely unfortunate morning in Springfield.

COATES: What did the email say?

RUE: The email did reference anger and frustration and hatred towards the immigrant population in our community. And, among other things, you can imagine the distrust in the political leaders in our community, and then threatened to have -- threatened that there were bombs in certain buildings, as you've highlighted on your show.

COATES: Had you ever received these types of threats prior to this week's events?

RUE: Prior to this event, some of the commissioners and myself have received hateful phone calls, hateful emails. Some of us not wanting, you know, particularly my -- I speak to mine. Received voicemails and emails that, you know, they don't want us around anymore. You know, please die, you and your family. I mean, just heinous stuff like that.

COATES: And it all leads to the community having an increased population of Haitian immigrants. Is that the impetus for this?

RUE: Well, there has been a lot -- there has been a lot of pressure in our community. I can't sit here and say that it has not been difficult to deal with a fast-growing population. So, over the three years, we've had, you know, 20 to 25% increase in our population. You put that strain on any city, their infrastructure is going to feel the weight of it, going to feel the stress of it, people are going to be tired and frustrated.

So, I have to have understanding empathy for that, and I absolutely do. But, you know, we're just -- we need to get to a better place. You know, we need help, not hate. Springfield is a beautiful city. We are not -- you know, we are imploding on ourselves. This is a beautiful town. You can see pictures of it right there.

COATES: Uh-hmm. RUE: We have a community that has seen an increase of over 8,000 jobs over the last decade. We are a community that comes together. We are vibrant. We work collaboratively to solve issues. Unfortunately, right now, we have to focus on making sure this rhetoric is dispelled, that these rumors are just -- they're just not true. You know, Springfield is a beautiful place and your pets are safe in Springfield.

COATES: It's unbelievable you even have to say that, mayor, on that front.

RUE: I know.

COATES: And yet, one of the reasons you have to say it is because the former president of the United States, Donald Trump, has been talking about this, amplifying that very false rumor. And, in fact, he's still using your town as a talking point.

[23:25:00]

Here he was today at a rally in Arizona. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a place called Springfield, Ohio that you've been reading about. Twenty thousand illegal Haitian immigrants have descended upon the town of 58,000 people, destroying their entire way of life. Nine-one-one calls even show residents are recording that the migrants are walking off with the town's geese. They're taking the geese. You know where the geese are? In the park, in the lake. And even walking off with their pets. My dog has been taken.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Mayor, if you -- if you could --

RUE: I felt --

COATES: -- speak to the former president, what would you tell him?

RUE: We need help, not hate. You have a stage -- I mean, anybody -- let me just say, any political leader that would stand and take a microphone and even say Springfield with a bit of a hate and with a bit of like Springfield, I mean, that's just frustrating.

We have a beautiful city, and we need -- we need the national stage to pay attention to what their words are doing to cities like ours, legacy cities in Ohio, legacy cities in the Midwest that are working hard to be significant. And we are doing well at that. We don't need this pushback that is hurting our citizens and hurting our community. I would say that to anybody that would take the mic and say these things.

COATES: It is surprising that some of these words are coming from one of your own Ohio senators, J.D. Vance.

RUE: I would say it's frustrating.

COATES: What is the harm, if any, that is befalling upon the Haitian population when you've got this increased rhetoric and the anger towards them from people outside the community who aren't looking at the reasons you have talked about, having to deal with the influx in terms of the strain on resources? Are they now in danger based on this rhetoric?

RUE: I think just as a human being, I have a lot of compassion for the Haitian community that is -- that is there. You know, they've come here out of a very terrible situation. They're here, and they're here under the current government's protective status. And it's not like anybody is leaving tomorrow. So, we as a community have to get our arms around the situation. And we have to do that with compassion and not hate and not disdain.

Is it a concern? Is it an infrastructure strain? It absolutely is. And that's why we've been asking for help. Governor Mike DeWine has been very helpful. No, there is not troops being sent to Springfield. We have a coordinated effort with our police department, the sheriff's department, and the state highway patrol to help us with reckless operation. There are not government troops being sent to Springfield because of this issue. He has also assisted us with funding to help our health care system, which was needed because we need translation services to assist the people that are in our community.

COATES: Mayor Rob Rue, what you described, important. What is being said, really just debilitating to any of the causes you're seeking. Thank you so much for joining.

RUE: Thank you.

COATES: Well, some Republicans are pointing the finger at this Trump ally for feeding conspiracy theories to the former president. Next, looking to a far-right activist, Laura Loomer, someone too extreme even, apparently, for Marjorie Taylor Greene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Her rhetoric and her tone does not match the base, does not match MAGA, does not match most Republicans I know, and I am completely denouncing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Now, when Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene criticizes a Republican for crossing the line, you know what's a bright red line. And in this case, it's igniting a mini civil war in the MAGA movement.

It all started when near -- when far-right internet personality, Laura Loomer, played into racist tropes about Indians on X, posting that the White House would smell like -- I got to say this -- curry and speeches would go through a call center if Kamala Harris wins.

Greene called the post racist because it was, and said Loomer should take it down. Loomer doubled down and called Greene a sellout. Brooklyn pride themselves as fierce defendants of Donald Trump and want to be in his inner circle. Loomer even accompanied Trump to the debate in Philadelphia on Tuesday, and she sat with him at 9/11 events.

So, you're probably asking, who is she? Well, she's a failed congressional candidate, once banned from social media platforms because of her anti-Muslim rhetoric, and she promoted a false conspiracy theory that 9/11 was an inside job. So, it was confusing, to say the least, to see her with Trump yesterday.

Some Republicans, they worry she is influencing Trump with her conspiracies. Senator Lindsey Graham urging Trump to distance himself from Loomer, saying -- quote -- "I think the president would serve himself well to make sure this doesn't become a bigger story." Too late.

My panel is back with me now. Bryan, why is Laura Loomer spending so much time with Trump and why is Trump letting her hang around?

LANZA: I think if you go to Mar-a-Lago, you see a lot of people who go there. She's one of the various people who shows up from time to time. I wouldn't say she's anywhere close to the inner circle but, certainly, he likes to have her on social media, he likes having her as an advocate there. He doesn't agree with most of her issues. But he's sorts of big tent. He wants more and more people joining the MAGA movement and talking about the message of the working- class folks. That is what Loomer, apparently, has done in the past.

COATES: Doesn't do the opposite though and alienate people who are not subscribing to these theories? You're trying to widen your tent 57 days before the election. Why her?

[23:34:55]

HEYE: As a conservative Republican, one of the frustrating things about Donald Trump world is, yes, in 2024, he has brought on serious professionals, president company included. Chris LaCivita is an old colleague and friend. But there's also the Adams family part of Trump World and their 9-11 truthers and their pillow salesmen. And they infect Trump world. And maybe they're not in the inner circle, but they're standing next to him and they're always right there. And it sends a very real message to not just to voters, but to foreign leaders that there's something wrong in Trump world and that the president himself is part of what -- former president is part of what's wrong. He invites these people in. That's a problem.

Listen to the professionals. Stay away from the Adams family. And as a case in point, to your previous segment, the Arizona Republican Party put a billboard of the cats and the geese that were being eaten which, obviously, aren't. Political professionals or at least ostensibly political professionals are spending money on this kind of thing. It's destructive, it's not helpful, and Republicans will be smart to stay as far away from it as possible. Listen to Marjorie Taylor Greene, which is something I've never said to you before.

(LAUGHTER)

HAQ: Right. And that's what I'm surprised by, I'm trying to understand that. This was the Indian food jokes. The Indian-American jokes were too far for Marjorie Taylor Greene. Like this is the -- of all the things and the only thing I can see politically is that there is a significant Indian-American population that is politically active in this country, and there are many Republicans in that movement right now, many who have supported Trump's relationship with Modi and India and some of the Hindu nationalists. So, all I can see is that maybe that is why Marjorie Taylor Greene feels like she needs to defend for the first time an immigrant population.

COATES: But then, if that's true, doesn't this, Bryan, risk alienating the very voters and widening a base? If people already associate Trump with conspiracy theories like birtherism, associating with another person known for conspiracy theories significantly undermines your ability to say, this isn't really who I am.

LANZA: No, listen, I think when you have Marjorie Taylor Greene or even some of these other surrogates that speak in that community and stand out, I think that's a more powerful message than the social media person that we're talking about. You know, listen, she's going to garner news. She's a provocateur. We've had provocateurs on the Republican side for a long time. The Democrats have had provocateurs on the other side.

But at the end of the day, the adults are the ones who are going to be making the policy decisions. I'm glad Marjorie Taylor Greene spoke up, what she did. But at the end of the day, we have specific people that are targeting these communities and delivering an effective message. We also know the most important thing, that after three and a half years, the country wants change and they want away from this inflation economy. That's what's driving the issues of the day. It's not going to be who jumps on the plane with Donald Trump.

HEYE: If you want to focus on those issues where Trump does have an advantage, you don't then take a 9-11 truther to sacred ground on American soil, which is ground zero. You wouldn't take an anti-Semite to the Holy Land with you. Donald Trump needs to be smarter. The people who are around him, the professionals, need to have sharper elbows. And I know there's a battle within the campaign, but the adults at some point need to win. And this is what worries everybody, that those malicious factors have too big a place in Trump world.

HAQ: When you're relying on your staff to take care of everything, that's fundamentally your problem, is that the candidate, the principal, is the one who's acting out of hand.

COATES: Look, the company you keep will keep you. Hashtag, Martha Coates. Thank you everyone so much. It's my mom's name. There you go. Breaking news tonight, Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagavailoa leaves tonight's game against the Buffalo Bills with yet another concussion. Will the NFL step in? Jemele Hill is here with me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagavailoa was taking a major hit tonight and suffering yet another concussion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)]

UNKNOWN (voice-over): -- four. Pressure. Tua steps up. He's going to run for the first down. And takes a shot at the six-yard line. Hamlin hit him. And Tua down. Hmm, picked up the first, split the seam (ph), off the field with a slight limp.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): We all remember a few years ago --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Tua going back to the locker room.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): We're all thinking about Tua and hope for the best there, especially --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: He collided head first with the Buffalo Bills Damar Hamlin who, by the way, nearly died himself on a football field just over a year ago. Hamlin is physically fine. Tua, though, is not. He has had multiple concussions in his career and even considered walking away from football because of those injuries. Former Dallas Cowboys wide receiver Dez Bryant weighing in tonight, saying, "That's it. NFL go ahead and do the right thing. Tua has had entirely way too many concussions. He needs to retire for his longevity health concerns."

Now, I want to bring in Jemele Hill, contributing writer for "The Atlantic" and host of the "Jamel Hill is Unbothered" podcast. Jemele so difficult to watch what happened tonight. He has multiple concussions going just in the 2022 season. Should the NFL let him continue to play?

JEMELE HILL, PODCAST HOST, CONTRIBUTING WRITER FOR THE ATLANTIC: I know that people probably don't want to hear this, but I don't know, that it's necessarily up to the NFL. Certainly, they can exert pressure. And because of the fact that he was thinking about doing this before after suffering multiple concussions in 2022, lets you know that he understands the gravity of the situation.

It was a tough watch, not only because of the way that hit happened, but also because it's burned in our brain, what happened in 2022. When he suffered a concussion, he was somehow allowed to go back into the game. By the way, against this very same team.

[23:44:56]

And then, once there was an investigation, they fired the independent neurologist, and the NFL created a system where just based off sort of the optics, that they can hold you out of a game.

And so, seeing what he's already suffered, he's married, he's got two kids, I think, and his family was reportedly in there with him, you know, as he went out of this game, I think he's got to make a really serious choice here about what he wants the future to be. I get it, he's 26, but still, this is your longevity that you're talking about, as Dez Bryant alluded to.

COATES: You know, this sparks another conversation that's always being had around the NFL season and beyond about the safety of the sport more broadly. You have fans and spectators who love to watch, love the contact, want to see it all. Then you've got the darker side of the health risks that are at play. This yet another example of that conversation. And I wonder how quickly the tide will change back to the sport entertaining alone.

HILL: So, here's the part that I think a lot of us who've watched football for a long time understand. They cannot make a safe game. I don't care how they change the helmets. I don't care -- I mean, certainly things can be improved. So, don't get me wrong, there is progress that has been made. But you can't treat the NFL and football in general, whether it's the NFL, college, youth sports or whatever. It's like it's never going to be a safe game that they can't guarantee things like this will happen.

It was so great, Laura, that you pointed out the fact that Damar Hamlin -- we -- you know, as a public watching him, we almost saw this guy die on the field. And that is the risk. Every time somebody in an NFL uniform or any football uniform, every time they suit up, that is what it is. Every hit is a collision. Every hit is a car accident. You cannot program or direct or orchestrate or choreograph how these hits are going to happen. And because he has suffered so many concussions already, the slightest little thing makes him more susceptible again.

COATES: Jemele Hill, it's just difficult to watch. We know about things like CTE and beyond and how these are being studied, and the cost-benefit analysis that every player in the league has to think about. Jemele, always relying on you for your expertise. Thank you so much.

HILL: Appreciate you, Laura. Thank you.

COATES: Ahead, with no third debate on the books and it died in Trump's pocket for the second, what are the next steps for his campaign? We've got Bill O'Reilly here to give his, what he says, no- spin analysis next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COATES: Well, tonight, the Trump campaign must confront the question, how do they turn the page from that debate? Now, he says that he won. But conservative pundits, strategists, seem to think otherwise. Just look at what Karl Rove wrote in an op-ed for "The Wall Street Journal." I'm quoting him. "There's no putting lipstick on this pig. Mr. Trump was crushed by a woman he previously dismissed as 'dumb as a rock.' Which raises the question: What does that make him?"

But my next guest thinks neither nominee won Tuesday's debate. He's a familiar face on television and knows how this sort of thing goes. With me now, Bill O'Reilly, host of "No Spin News" and co-author of the brand-new book, "Confronting the Presidents: No Spin Assessments from Washington to Biden."

Bill, good to see you here tonight. Thank you for joining. Listen, you said that both Trump and Harris had a poor debate. What do you make of Trump's decision not to do any more of them? Is that the right move?

BILL O'REILLY, AUTHOR, HOST OF "NO SPIN NEWS," FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: For today, I guess, but I think he'll change his mind. First of all, thank you for having me on your program, Ms. Coates. Very nice of you to invite me.

COATES: Thanks for coming.

O'REILLY: I said that when you're assessing a debate like this and you're going to say, well, who won, the American people should be the winners of all political debates. And that did not happen on Tuesday night. So, neither candidate won the debate on merits.

Mr. Trump allowed himself to be baited into talking about things that are totally irrelevant to our life in America today. I mean, totally. And the vice president simply wouldn't answer any direct questions. I mean, I listed them. I think there were eight direct questions that she dodged and not answered. And unfortunately, the moderators did not hold the vice president accountable or follow up and say, as you and I would have said, that's nice, but you really didn't answer the question. So, on that basis, no one won. The American people didn't win.

COATES: When you talk about the different areas you think that were shortcomings to say when it comes to what was not being asked. And, obviously, part of what's baked into the recipe, Bill, of a debate is not the granular specificity that I think maybe a white paper or a platform position would actually provide. But even though that's the case, what are the areas that you thought both missed some opportunities to demonstrate their command of an issue that the American public wanted to know about?

O'REILLY: All right, I don't know anything about granular. All I know is that I've interviewed five presidents and I would never let them dodge any question I ever asked.

COATES: Hmm.

O'REILLY: Period. Okay? I mean, a lot of that is in my book, confronting the presidents. If I ask you, Ms. Coates, a question, you dodge, I'm going to say to the audience, well, you dodge a question, do you want to have another shot at it? All right? And you know me. I mean, that is how I made my reputation.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

O'REILLY: Now, a good question, you just asked, what were the missed opportunities? So, Kamala Harris, obviously, is dubious to many voters, all right, because they don't know who she is. She doesn't do interviews routinely.

[23:54:58]

Her people keep her away from all press conferences, any kind of unscripted event. Here's an unscripted event --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

O'REILLY: -- that Kamala Harris said, look, here's who I am and this is what I believe. It's not enough to say my values are the same. What values? What are you talking about? Is an open border a value of yours? Do you believe that foreign nationals should just pour in here and caused chaos? Is that a value? What happened to inflation? Why did it ignite so quickly? What kind of value is that? American working people are getting hurt. Those are the kind of questions that the audience, all 60 million of them, wanted to hear.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

O'REILLY: Now, Donald Trump, for whatever reason, I don't know. And I know the man as well as anybody on earth. I wrote a book on him, "The United States of Trump." I've known him for 35 years. He can't discipline himself not to take the bait. So, the vice president baits him with, have you ever been to a Trump rally? People leave. All Trump had to say was, you would be lucky to have the attendance I have as vice president at my rally.

COATES: Well, would that have been -- but that would -- I mean, that would also take the bait as opposed to, I think, the focus. For example, she would put these little baiting moments and she would have them at the end or in the middle of -- maybe even bearing the lead around issues of substance and electorate care about. Then he would go and go on tangents, for example, about what's happening or purportedly happening in places like Springfield, Ohio. He wasn't just addressing the point and then being dismissive of it, he doubled down on a number of points, even when he was fact-checked by, for example, David Muir.

So, I wonder, is it worth it strategically to try to address every insult or would it have been more discipline to go and talk about what could have been the Achilles heels?

O'REILLY: You're absolutely correct, 100% correct. Why bother with that?

COATES: She certainly chose not to -- O'REILLY: When you're asked a question -- when you're asked a question about undocumented people causing trouble in the country and you go into that somebody is eating a cocker spaniel, that's a twilight zone. All right? That's where it is. All you do is go one name, Laken Riley. That's all. All right? Then you go Aurora, Colorado. I mean, you don't go into the theater of the absurd. But, for some reason, the former president likes that theater, and he loses credibility by doing that.

COATES: Part of this is all wrapped up into your book in part. I mean, your book is called "Confronting the Presidents: No Spin Assessments from Washington to Biden." And in it, you confront, really, some of the more important or really the most important moments and shortcomings. You were very critical, frankly, of the former president, Obama, for example. But you recently said that Obama was the hardest working modern president, and you put him in the good category. I'm curious, when you're looking at the landscape of it, what made you now put him in that category?

O'REILLY: Because Barack Obama was one of the hardest working presidents we've ever had. And he was a sincere, is a sincere man. I dealt with him a lot. I interviewed him three times, and we worked together on "Brother's Keeper." I know the man pretty well. Now, he made mistakes, as all of them do. All 45 men made serious mistakes. And Obama's big mistake was withdrawing all troops from Iraq and allowing ISIS to rise in ferocity.

Now, he partially corrected that because I wrote another book called "Killing the Killers," where the Obama administration did finally wise up and go in and get them. And then Trump wiped them out. The Trump administration wiped ISIS out and really crippled Iran as well. But Barack Obama was a president who really tried to improve the country. I disagree with them. I'm not a big government guy.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

O'REILLY: I think he wasted an enormous amount of money. But I do believe Obamacare, in hindsight, if you want to be accurate, helped a lot of Americans and continues to do so. It might not be the way I would run it, because I want a smaller government --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

O'REILLY: -- but there's no doubt that poor people in America benefit from Obamacare. That's the truth, and I'm in the truth business.

COATES: What's so fascinating about this book and everyone should read it, "Confronting the Presidents," is really the distance at which one is able to judge and assess a president and truly have a real understanding of their value and contributions to our nation. Maybe distance is required, and I'll see how the American voters view Biden and going forward. Bill O'Reilly, thank you so much for joining us.

O'REILLY: Thank you for having me, Ms. Coates. Pleasure.

COATES: You can call me Laura. Thank you so much for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.

[00:00:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight on "360," Donald Trump says it is won and ran (ph), still claiming victory in this debate with Vice President Harris. He is now backing away from another. Also, tonight --