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Laura Coates Live
Trump Blasts One Republican, Stays Silent on Another; Trump Eyes Ex-Rival to Handle Assassination Attempt Investigation; U.S. Moves Troops Amid Fears of Hezbollah-Israel War; Harris to Skip Historic Catholic Charity Dinner; Janet Jackson Doubles Down. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired September 23, 2024 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, AXIOM STRATEGIES: You're seeing Donald Trump do these podcasts. You're seeing him go to a bitcoin bar. There is a concerted effort because at the end of the day, that little demographic there of guys, that could be the shift that makes this election.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think that's a very important point. Cari?
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I want to talk about one dude by the name of Woj. He gives out Woj bombs. He just announced that he was leaving ESPN, Adrian Wojnarowski. He left $20 million on the table. He said time is not an endless supply. He wants to spend time with his family. I don't know many people in our business and/or this disciplined that will leave 20 million dollars on the table. He was burnt out. A lesson in leaving. You love what you do, but when we do it to the point where we give so much every single day, it can burn you out, and I think it's incredibly insightful.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He also ain't married to my wife.
CHAMPION: Oh, cause you got to say!
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIP: Thank you very much. Thanks for watching "NewsNight: Stay of the Race." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, Donald Trump launches an attack against one Republican he thinks is costing him votes while being silent on another. I'll explain in a moment. Plus, fears of an all-out war between Israel and Hezbollah, the U.S. now moving troops to the region. Can the White House walk the conflict back from the brink? Everyone is wondering tonight. And the stunning new details from the would-be assassination attempt of Donald Trump as he calls the DOJ to hand over the case to one of his former rivals.
That's all tonight on "Laura Coates Live." So, here's a paradox for you on this Monday night. Republican groups have been spending tens of millions of dollars to get Republicans to vote early, as in ahead of November, only to have their nominee say this and in a battleground state no less.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Got to get out and vote. You can start right away. You know that, right? Now we have this stupid stuff where you can vote 45 days early. I wonder what the hell happens during that 45. Let's move the -- see these votes. Who got about a million votes in there? Let's move them. We're fixing the air conditioner in the room, right? No, it's terrible. What happened the last time was disgraceful, including right here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: That sound you hear is like heads banging on desks somewhere in a strategy war room. And that was also Donald Trump tonight in Pennsylvania, in one breath, encouraging early voting, and the next, baselessly using it to say that early voting fraud cost an election in 2020 or that it might move around vote somewhere, someplace.
Now, Trump is no doubt focused on the commonwealth. We've heard he'll be back just next week, and this time holding a rally in Butler, the town where he was nearly assassinated in July.
Pennsylvania's 19 electoral votes are an extraordinary prize. But the race is so tight that Trump is not as worried about those as the one -- one electoral vote hundreds, hundreds of miles away, the one that Nebraska's second district awarded to Biden in 2020. A little blue dot you see there in there.
Trump wants state lawmakers to vote, switch to a winner-take-all system, which would benefit Trump because if it's winner-take-all, he'll get everything except -- and including that one.
But tonight, a Republican is actually standing in the way. A local GOP state senator whose vote would have effectively been the tiebreaker on any rule change said, mm-mm. Mike McDonnell wrote -- quote -- "Forty- three days from Election Day, is not the moment to make this change." Now, spoiler alert. Surprise, surprise. Guess who Trump is attacking? That state senator, writing that he -- quote -- "decided, for no reason whatsoever, to get in the way for a Republican, common sense, victory. Just another 'Grandstander.'"
Let's get this straight. Trump is willing to criticize a Republican who was staying in the way of what he thinks is a major election rule change that's justified in 11th hour. When it comes to criticizing another Republican, say the one running for governor in North Carolina, the must-win state, you know, the one who reportedly called himself a Black Nazi and posted lewd comments on a porn site, the one who saw his top aides resign nearly all at once, the one I think Trump called, what was it again? Martin Luther King on steroids or Martin Luther King Jr. times two, that one, well, no, in Mark Robinson's case, Trump has nothing to say. You know, he hasn't even, sitting here today, pulled back his endorsement.
And Governor Brian Kemp of Georgia, for what it's worth, he's had enough. Kemp took back his support for Robinson today. And the Republican Governors Association also decided to pull its money out of the North Carolina race. Is your head spinning yet? Because it is only Monday.
[23:05:00]
Joining me now, national political correspondent for "Politico," Meredith McGraw, "National Review" editor, Ramesh Ponnuru, and former senior adviser to the Biden 2020 campaign, Alencia Johnson, who has a new book coming out in March. I can't wait to hear more about it. What it is called, Alencia?
ALENCIA JOHNSON, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, BIDEN 2020 CAMPAIGN: "Flip the Tables: The Everyday Disruptor's Guide."
COATES: Whew, I cannot wait till it comes out. I'm getting my pre- order now. Okay, let's start with what's going on. Ramesh, all right, this is a really, really tight race, and we see that every single day. You've got Trump leading in Arizona, but then everywhere else, it's like a jump ball, neck and neck. He's kind of in the -- in one place. He's in the margin of error in some areas. It's so tight of a race. Um, is he concerned about what's happening there? Is that why he's focused so much on the one in Nebraska because he knows this could come down to maybe even 269?
RAMESH PONNURU, EDITOR, NATIONAL REVIEW INSTITUTE: Oh, yeah, I think that it's pretty clear it's going to be a tight race. It has been a tight race pretty much consistently except for that period in the late stages of Biden's campaign. And it could be that one vote. The -- and it could have -- you know, there was some similar interest in Maine because Maine has the same system where they vote their electoral votes by congressional district. But the thing is Nebraska has had the system in place for a while --
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
PONNURU: -- and maybe there's a case for making it just like every -- almost every other state in the country, but 43 days from the election. That's the point that the state senator made, and I think it's a well-taken one.
COATES: It also tells you, Alencia -- I want you guys to hear for a second what James Carville had to say tonight on "Anderson Cooper" when he's trying to game out -- he doesn't want to predict how it's all going to go, but trying to game out how these battleground states might go. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: It's close to the polling. I'm not convinced that it's going to be close to Election Day. I'll say that if there are seven swing states, the least, most least likely scenario is it breaks 4-3. I don't like to predict elections. I would just say this just doesn't feel like a race that Harris is going to lose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: That's pretty confident. (INAUDIBLE) doesn't want to make an actual prediction. But I'll say that the "Times" is reporting about 15% of the electorate in Arizona, Georgia, and also North Carolina, combined, described themselves as undecided or not definitely decided. So, what you got to do to get them to go for her in the way that Carville thinks might happen?
JOHNSON: Yeah, I mean, I think, and what I've been saying since she has become the nominee is that the reality is a lot of these people, these undecided voters, what I'm gathering is that it is between the couch or showing up for Harris, right? They're tired of Donald Trump. But they just need a little more motivation to get out for Vice President Harris, and that's why it's actually really smart that her campaign tone is, I'm not taking anything for granted. I think Democrats learned that lesson in 2016 --
COATES: Hmm.
JOHNSON: -- to not take this historic opportunity for granted. Folks want to work. And she constantly talks about wanting to gain everyone's support. You know, there's even conversation about her visiting -- potentially visiting the border. She's not giving up on some of these states.
And the other thing, particularly about Arizona and Nevada, you know, North Carolina, we have the governor's race that I think is actually going to help the top of the ticket. But Nevada and Arizona have abortion on the ballot, right?
COATES: Hmm.
JOHNSON: And I think that will actually potentially help Vice President Harris, but again, not taking it for granted, still trying to campaign in those states.
COATES: Should she visit the border?
JOHNSON: Listen, I think she has spent time there before she even became vice president and, of course, obviously, as vice president. I think as long as it's not a political stunt, right? We have seen that politicians do that. I don't think it will be for her because one thing that she has said that separates her from everyone else is that she has come from a state, she has governed a state that is actually on the border. So, she understands immigration in a way that a lot of people do not understand it. And so, this could be an opportunity to show her strength.
COATES: Meredith, what do you think about that issue? I mean, obviously, Trump is nervous. There are -- immigration is a huge part of the election going forward. And he's ramping up, though, at the same time, election fraud. He's talking about election fraud as a way to -- I don't know if it's to hedge if he is unsuccessful or otherwise. But he also on Truth Social -- he said this: The Democrats are talking about how they're working so hard to get millions of votes from Americans living overseas. Actually, they're getting ready to cheat. Now, he wants to challenge, of course, now Americans overseas, which means military possibly as well. He's combining a lot of things in this kitchen sink of just in case. Why?
MEREDITH MCGRAW, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Well, Donald Trump has been doing this since he lost the 2020 election. This is a familiar refrain that we've seen from him, sowing doubt about the election results before they've even happened. But at the same time, he's casting doubt. The RNC and the Trump campaign, when you go to these rallies, they're encouraging people to do mail-in voting --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
MCGRAW: -- to do early voting. He just did a tele-town hall with Governor Glenn Youngkin. Virginia's going to start early voting on Friday. And so, at the same time Trump is talking about all of this, the Trump campaign and the RNC are really trying to, you know, say, hold on, hold on, you guys still need to be getting out the vote.
[23:10:06]
COATES: We saw this before as well during the pandemic. Remember when there's this whole moment of, he was saying, don't do it. And they're like, wait, this is kind of our bread and butter, you need to have early voting, don't undermine this in this way. But he's still going that route.
PONNURU: And it's not just that he discourages early voting sometimes, it's also that the more he sows this idea that the elections are rigged, the less reason there is for his supporters to come out and vote, because it creates this sense of futility, well, they'll just steal it anyway.
COATES: Yeah.
PONNURU: You know, if they follow the logic of this, it undermines his own efforts.
COATES: But he's also calling the Nebraska person a grandstander. I mean, is that the new phrase for, this does not make sense, I'm setting up for some principles and, obviously, the voters need to be able to have certainty going forward about how the rules work?
MCGRAW: Well, there was a serious pressure campaign from Senator Lindsey Graham, who went out to Nebraska to meet with the governor and state legislatures. Donald Trump was on the phones about this. They were really hoping to push the governor to hold some sort of special session to really help push this over the line because, you know, as we were talking about earlier, this is going to be a tight race. And if you're in a scenario where Kamala Harris wins, you know, the Blue Wall states, it could come down to just that one district.
JOHNSON: This sounds a lot like deja vu of what happened in Georgia, quite frankly, right? And it is really frustrating that Donald Trump -- he continues to talk about winning by cheating, right? He literally can't run an honest campaign that also has policy specific. Everyone wants to talk about Kamala Harris not having specifics. This man doesn't even talk about policy. All he talks about is rigging the election and bending the rules in his favor.
COATES: Well, you know, he's talking about who isn't his favorite. Women in Arizona, also Georgia and North Carolina, Alencia, are also giving Harris an edge over Trump with 51% support. Trump has noticed, by the way. Listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I always thought women liked me.
(APPLAUSE)
I never thought I had a problem.
(APPLAUSE)
You will be protected, and I will be your protector. Women will be happy, healthy, confident, and free.
(APPLAUSE)
You will no longer be thinking about abortion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: But they are, and protector and all the different aspects of it. Is this an effective way to communicate with the voters that are leaning towards Harris?
JOHNSON: Oh, my goodness. It is so disgusting. And seeing that line, I am your protector, makes me think about the fact that he was found liable for sexual assault, and someone, a woman, would say that he is their predator, right? And this actually allows for us to continue to have a contrast of, he's running scared. They're even showing in polling that college-educated women are moving more towards the Democratic Party because of issue around abortion, around IVF, but also having seen who Donald Trump is since 2016.
And so, I don't think this is going to work. The way that he was patronizing the conversation -- the tone was very patronizing to women, and I think there are a lot of women who will see right through it.
And at the same time, I think there is still this sentiment, particularly voters of color, women of color are concerned about seeing how white women will vote in this election because this whole conversation around women's issues has taken the mainstream conversation of our politics and yet, still, white women have overwhelmingly voted for Republicans even when Trump has been at the top of the ticket. So, it's going to be interesting what happens in November. COATES: Newsflash, the only person that telling a woman that they'll be your "father figure" works for was George Michael. Okay? It's a great song. Let me ask you one more question on this, Ramesh. I'm going to you and George Michael. It's a hell of a song, you have to admit. It really is.
JOHNSON: (INAUDIBLE).
COATES: It is.
JOHNSON: Yeah.
COATES: Thank you.
JOHNSON: It is a great song.
COATES: It is a great song, but not a campaign slogan. Let me ask you this, about why you think Trump is not pulling back his endorsement of the lieutenant governor in North Carolina. Why is he not distancing himself, given the fact that -- I mean, he has gone to great lengths to distance himself from any sphere of porn when it comes to a prior 2016 claim and a criminal trial in New York as well. And now, he's not distancing himself. Why?
PONNURU: Well, I think there are -- there are two reasons. One, he doesn't back down. He doesn't like being seen to back down, at least in a high-profile way. Second, if you start to concede the point that character matters in a leader, that leads down a path that is not helpful to Donald Trump.
COATES: Hmm. Very important point. Well said. Thank you so much, everyone.
Next, new details on how Trump was just minutes away from being only 100 feet away from the suspected gunman at his own golf club. Plus, the suspect's shocking letter written before the attempt, which included a detail that his former attorney general, Bill Barr, blasting his former department.
[23:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: I can't believe this, but Ryan Routh was only 12 to 15 minutes away from having Donald Trump in his crosshairs. That's according to prosecutors who laid out stunning new information about the would-be Mar-a-Lago assassin. Prosecutors said Routh was -- quote -- "directly in line with the very next hole where Trump was golfing." He would have only been 100 feet from Trump when he was at the green.
Investigators also say that Ruth had dropped off a box at her friend's house months before the assassination attempt. And after the attempt, the friend opened the box. Inside, ammunition, a metal pipe, miscellaneous building materials, tools, four phones, and various letters. One of them was addressed to the world. It read, "This was an assassination attempt on Donald Trump but I failed you. I tried my best and gave it all the gumption I could muster. It is up to you now to finish the job. And I will offer $150,000 to whomever can complete the job."
[23:20:03]
Prosecutors now say they are planning to charge Routh with attempting to assassinate Trump. So far, remember, he has only been charged with two firearm-related offenses. But the former president, he's skeptical. He says he doesn't trust the federal investigators, writing on Truth Social that their charges are a slap on the wrist and that he wants Florida to lead the investigation, saying -- quote -- "Ouur justice system is corrupt and discredited. Let Florida handle the case."
Well, I want to bring in Dan Gelber, the former mayor of Miami Beach and a former South Florida federal prosecutor. Dan, thank you so much for joining. I mean, based on the evidence laid out today, do you think the DOJ is going to have any issues getting a grand jury to indict on a new charge that would include an attempted assassination?
DAN GELBER, FORMER MAYOR OF MIAMI BEACH, FORMER SOUTH FLORIDA FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: No. In fact, they've got a couple different statutes in Title 18 to pursue. He was both, remember, a former president and a candidate of a major party. Both of those have different statutes. Each of those provide for a potential life in prison.
So, they have very serious charges. The reason they obviously did the gun charge initially was they wanted to get their case together, and they have a couple weeks before they have to go before a grand jury to perfect the more serious charges, which will be the ones that travel with him when he goes to trial.
COATES: Some people often wonder about why it wouldn't just be a murder charge. But, obviously, the elevated nature of the victim that's intended changes the calculation for how prosecutors pursue this case. The governor of Florida, though, he has already cast doubt on the federal investigation and has the state collecting its own investigation. Is there any reason why the state should do this instead of the feds? Because they have already said they had a plan to pursue an attempted murder charge.
GELBER: There's absolutely no reason why the state of Florida should be pursuing this case other than to help the feds in pursuing the case, and that's what typically happens. Remember, in most cases, you want to avoid a turf battle between agencies because all that happens is you get, you know, multiple interviews of witnesses, crime scene. All sorts of things can be messed up when you have multiple agents from different agencies competing. Usually, you want to avoid that kind of a situation, that kind of turf battle.
In this case, the governor, Governor DeSantis is actually -- seems to be instigating it and fomenting it which, frankly, is a -- it's foolhardy and it could really impact an investigation in a terrible way. It's really a wet kiss to the defendant more than it is anything else. And he's wrong, by the way, about his assessment of federal law. Governor DeSantis said, I think, when he announced it, that there's no attempted murder charge under federal law.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
GELBER: And I know he went to Harvard Law School, but he must have missed that class because there are two statutes, 351 and 115, both of which provide for full life imprisonment for somebody who tries to assassinate a candidate for president or a former president.
COATES: I was going to say, Dan, the idea of having these competing different, you know, turf wars means if you have more than one interview and investigation, there's always a chance that someone could say one thing in one and contracts in another one. That's a really difficult position to be in to prove your and carry your burden of proof. Not to mention in civil rights cases, for example, you've got the Fed to normally a backstop and vice versa, and that's not what's happening here.
Don Jr., though, is taking the issue with the release of the suspect's letter. He said -- quote -- "For the life of me, I do not understand why the Kamala-Biden DOJ is publicly releasing a letter from Ryan Wesley Routh announcing a $150,000 bounty on my dad's head. They're putting his life even more at risk with this reckless decision." Also, the former AG, Bill Barr, said that he was dumbfounded by the release of any redactions.
It did strike me, when it was released. Was it unusual to you to have it released in this way, including that detail?
GELBER: No. In fact, I -- look, I was a federal prosecutor under Bill Barr. I'm not sure he was ever a line assistant because if you appear in magistrates coordinate seeking to put someone in jail, awaiting trial, you got to prove dangerousness. So that, obviously, is an element. But it has a lot more relevance to the judge sitting. For instance, maybe they're going to limit the -- his use of a computer or the mail. You know, maybe the defense lawyer wants to know because it could be the basis for a competency hearing. There are a million reasons. And, of course, it's going to come out there because it's an integral part of the proof of the defendant's intent.
So, you know, it's sort of absurd to say that should not have been made public because nobody is going to act upon a guy who's sitting in jail's ruminations in this letter. No one is going to act on that. But it's relevant to dangerousness, which is an element of bond as well as the level of proof you have against the defendant.
[23:25:02]
So, I don't see anything wrong with it all, and I think I would be surprised, frankly, the prosecutors have not brought it to the judge's attention who most certainly would have been upset if it had not been used.
COATES: And, of course, those bond decisions will continue until the actual trial. I think people are accustomed to not seeing say a manifesto printed out when somebody has been involved in a crime, which could contain information that, uh, is bigoted and beyond. But we'll see what happens in this case as now this detail has been revealed. Dan Gelber, thank you so much.
GELBER: Sure. Thank you.
COATES: Next, a major escalation in the Middle East. Now, the Pentagon is getting ready to send more U.S. troops to the region. Our military analyst is here to break it all down.
But first, an update to a story we've been following very closely, about a Missouri death row inmate who prosecutors, prosecutors say may be innocent. Marcellus Williams is now set to be put to death in less than 24 hours. This after the state Supreme Court declined to stop his execution.
His case gained attention in January after the local prosecutor moved to vacate Williams's 2001 murder conviction. The prosecutor argued that DNA testing of the knife used in the murder could prove that Williams was not the killer. So that fell apart after new testing showed the knife had been contaminated by investigators who worked on the case. And since then, a lengthy legal battle has been playing out.
Williams's attorneys say that his rights were violated. But the Missouri attorney general disputes that and opposed a deal that would have re-sentenced Williams to life in prison. Tonight, the governor is turning down a request for clemency. He says this: "Nothing from the real facts of this case have led me to believe in Mr. Williams's innocence, as such, Mr. Williams's punishment will be carried out as ordered by the Supreme Court."
Williams is now asking for the United States Supreme Court for a stay of execution. We will update you as we learn more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(EXPLOSION)
COATES: A devastating wave of Israeli airstrikes across Southern Lebanon, targeting the Iran-backed group Hezbollah. Now, the U.S. military is sending more troops to the region over fears that fighting could spiral out of control. Lebanon's health ministry says nearly 500 people were killed just today.
And across the country, people are fleeing north. The judicial system has been suspended. Schools are closed. Hezbollah has launched its own rockets, some reaching deep into Israel. Many have been intercepted. The group has been firing at Israel ever since the Gaza war broke out, but it has dealt some serious blows. After last week's pager and walkie talkie attacks, the IDF spokesman is not ruling out the possibility of a ground invasion.
Joining me now, CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger and CNN military analyst Colonel Cedric Leighton. Glad to have you both here and your expertise. David, this is the worst fighting that has been between Israel and Hezbollah in 18 years. Is there an off-ramp?
DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: There's always an off-ramp from this. The question is, will anyone take it? There have been off-ramps from Gaza, right? And the ceasefire deal and the prisoner exchange. Israel has chosen not to take it or Prime Minister Netanyahu has chosen not to, and Hamas has chosen not to take it. So, the question is, can you create the conditions where both of them have an incentive to do so? The only good news out of today was it could have been worse.
COATES: Hmm.
SANGER: In other words, we could have seen Hezbollah, uh, shooting its missiles toward, uh, Tel Aviv, and they can certainly reach Tel Aviv if they want to. They didn't. They showed a bit of restraint. So, uh, that is a good sign. But people in the administration have been saying to me this could easily spiral into something bigger. And, of course, by bigger, what they mean is Iran-Israel conflict.
COATES: We know that there will be troops going to the region. We don't know where they're going or how they're going to be used. Any idea, Colonel?
CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST, RETIRED AIR FORCE COLONEL: Well, there are several possibilities, Laura. One of them is special operations forces. You could use them for noncombatant evacuation, for example, of American citizens or other nationals that we get the task to move. It could also be more Air Force personnel or Navy personnel. It's hard to say at this point.
The Pentagon is being very tight-lipped about that because they want to protect not only where they're going, how many there are, and what their exact mission is. But it's clearly a message that we're there to augment those forces, and we're also there to use those forces potentially in a role that would help protect either Israel or our own citizens.
COATES: I mean, so far, the policy has been to defend Israel and that they have the right to defend themselves. But can the United States maintain that particular policy if Hezbollah retaliates?
SANGER: It's a really hard, hard question. Hezbollah, obviously, is retaliating now. And, you know, let's remember how this started. On October 8th, the day after the terror attack on Israel, Hezbollah began lobbying weapons into Israel. We think there have now been about 8,500 thereabouts, which is a lot.
[23:35:01]
But this has ramped up in recent times. And so, it seems as if Prime Minister Netanyahu has made a fundamental decision, which is he's not going to just go back and mow the lawn periodically and try to push this back, he's going to try to get at all of their weapons stores. The question is, is this as far off a goal as defeating Hamas, you know, completely and totally, which he has declared to be his other goal? It's really hard to do that with terror groups, as we learned with al-Qaeda, with ISIS, and with others.
COATES: I mean, to that point, Cedric, I mean, you've got Hezbollah backing -- is backed by Iran. You've got Iran also backs Hamas in Gaza. The Houthis in Yemen. I mean, the coordination of trying to secure either the off-ramp peace or stability in the region is mind- boggling.
LEIGHTON: Well, yeah. And, you know, from a diplomatic standpoint, you know, one gets the impression that everything leads through Tehran, all the roads lead through Tehran in the diplomatic sense. In the military sense, that's at least partially true as well. Each of these groups, although they're independent, they have a certain degree of loyalty, if you will, to Iran. They also coordinate with Iran. And from a military perspective, from an intelligence perspective, it's in their interest to work together.
And that's, I think, what these groups are trying to do. Israel has quite a job to do if they're trying to prevent Hamas from regaining a foothold and if they're trying to prevent Hezbollah from doing more damage to northern Israel.
COATES: This is all completely unnerving. I know we have to continue to watch and see what happens, the death tolls, the unrest, the instability. Thank you both for explaining. I appreciate it.
SANGER: Thank you.
COATES: David, Colonel Leighton, please come back again. Kamala Harris is ditching the historic Catholic charity dinner in New York. The candidates, they get to roast each other. Trump calls it sad. Would it hurt her for not going? Well, someone who has been there before, former New York Mayor Bill de Blasio, joins me next.
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[23:40:00]
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COATES: It's a dinner invite that only comes around every four years. Two presidential candidates dining and dishing out jabs at the Al Smith Dinner, a Catholic fundraiser in New York. But this year, Vice President Harris is RSVPing? No, to the date with former President Trump on October 17th, and said -- she says she'll be campaigning in a battleground state. But Trump says he will show up, with or without Harris.
Now, the dinner, it happens every year. It takes some special significance in presidential elections as a campaign stop where the candidates can show off some personality with jokes either at their opponent's expense or, of course, their own.
It's a tradition that dates back to 1960, when then-nominees Richard Nixon and JFK attended. Kennedy went on to be the first Catholic elected as president. But nominees have skipped the dinner before, like Walter Mondale in 1984, saying that he needed to prepare for the upcoming debate, and history told us, of course, how that turned out.
With me now is someone who has attended this dinner multiple times, former mayor of New York, Bill de Blasio. Mayor, thank you for joining us. I wonder, from your perspective, if it's a good idea, strategy wise, for Harris to skip this dinner, considering that some voters are still saying they don't know enough about her yet?
BILL DE BLASIO, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: Look, Laura, I think it is great opportunity for her. I certainly hope her campaign will reconsider. This campaign, I have to say, has been so well-run by Kamala Harris. I was at the event she did with Oprah Winfrey here in Michigan last week. It was amazingly powerful. The message was so strong. I mean, this is a campaign that is firing all cylinders.
I think it's a great opportunity to Al Smith Dinner to show the contrast in personalities and temperament and also for folks all across the country to get to know Kamala Harris a little bit better. It's also very important, I think, in the world of American Catholics, you know, 60 to 70 million Catholics in America.
And I would say it's a community of the Democratic Party. I say, as a Democrat, we -- you know, we had incredible hold on the Catholic community for decades and that hold has loosened. I think it's important to show up at what is arguably the most important Catholic event of the year.
COATES: And yet the content or substance of it includes a roast, right? And so, we are in a time and, obviously, you know, the tail end of any election cycle is going to be robust. It's going to be full of jabs, many below the belt, some above board, but mostly not. Do you think that the political climate that we're in of having these jabs thrown will take on a very different tone, and that's what she's trying to avoid?
DE BLASIO: I think it's a legitimate concern. I also think that the simple argument that there's work to be done in the swing states is that up is powerful or preparing for a potential second debate. These are all very real considerations. But here's what I'd say: You know, I was there in 2016 when it was Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Hillary Clinton made fun of herself and was warm and engaging. Donald Trump attacked her very, very rudely. People felt that massive contrast. I think this year, they feel it even more.
COATES: Let me play for them -- mayor, I don't want to cut you off, but I do want to play --
DE BLASIO: -- really been coming up (ph).
COATES: Yep. I want you to finish your point, excuse me for interrupting you, but I do want to play what you're talking about to give the audience a reminder. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Thank you.
TRUMP: Hillary is so corrupt. She got kicked off the Watergate Commission.
CLINTON: Maybe you saw Donald dismantle his prompter the other day. And I get that. They're hard to keep up with. And I'm sure it's even harder when you're translating from the original Russian.
[23:45:00]
TRUMP: I guess you didn't send her invitation by email. Or maybe you did, and she just found out about it through the wonder of WikiLeaks.
(LAUGHTER)
CLINTON: Donald really is as healthy as a horse. You know, the one Vladimir Putin rides around on.
(LAUGHTER)
COATES: I mean, just listening to it, mayor, you're laughing, there is some uncomfortable, cringey moments. But he did break with tradition and became a little bit more personal. She did give it right back on moments that we can all look back now and say neither of them was actually joking about their position. Is this what we'd have to look forward to if they attended?
DE BLASIO: Look, again, I think the campaign has a lot of, you know, valid considerations in where they go. But here's what I'd say: Kamala Harris has handled this campaign about as well as ever -- I ever see a candidate do it. Her temperament connects with what I think Americans are looking for right now.
If she goes in there and is herself and maybe a little self- deprecating, little bit comedy thrown in, and Donald Trump goes over the edge, which I would predict -- I sat there like so many people at dinner in 2016 shocked because no candidate had ever acted that way before. I think that contrast would really be powerful just a few weeks before the election and would say a lot to Americans about who Kamala Harris is and who Donald Trump is not.
So -- and by the way, we don't have any reason to believe there's going to be another debate at this moment. So, this might be the last chance for people to compare them side by side. So, a tough choice for the campaign, but I would argue, I hope they reconsider it because I think they could do a lot of good and connect with a lot of people through this event.
COATES: And mayor, to your point about the demographic they could possibly reach and beyond, the Al Smith Dinner supports Catholic charities. And today, on Truth Social, Trump said -- quote -- "Any Catholic that votes for Comrade Kamala Harris should have their head examined," his words. You were raised Catholic. How do you respond to his comments? DE BLASIO: It's an insult to Catholic people, just like the same way he insulted Jewish people when he said if they didn't vote for him, they were anti-Israel. You know, it's so inappropriate. And I think, in a funny way, we do get a little used to Donald Trump's stick, to use a New York term. But I think it's wearing off. It's very striking ever since Kamala Harris became the candidate.
I think there's less and less tolerance and acceptance of Trump attacking people on that very personal level or ethnic level or religious level. I think a lot of Catholics who would hear that would be really offended because they'll make their own minds up with their faith in mind as well.
COATES: Mayor Bill de Blasio, thank you so much for joining us. We'll see if she changes her mind. Thank you so much.
DE BLASIO: Thank you more.
COATES: Ahead, a bizarre story involving Janet Jackson. Misinformation and an apology, apparently, she never gave. Why the pop star is doubling down on false claims about Kamala Harris and pushing back on a statement she says she didn't authorize.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Three words are landing music icon Janet Jackson some political hot water tonight. "She's not Black." That's what Jackson said about Vice President Harris in an interview with "The Guardian." The reporter asked Jackson about Harris's historic candidacy, and Jackson responded, "Well, you know what they supposedly said? She's not black. That's what I heard. That she's Indian."
The interviewer tried to correct her, but Jackson doubled down. "Her father is white. That's what I was told. I mean, I haven't watched the news in a few days. I was told that they discovered her father was white" -- unquote.
To be clear, Harris is biracial. Harris's father is Jamaican and Black. There is -- here he is holding his daughter when she was a child. Her mother was Indian. Someone who claimed to be Jackson's spokesperson then apologized. But Jackson's team says that apology was not authorized. This full statement about Harris's heritage has been repeated so many times, even the vice president herself is not acknowledging it.
My next guest, well, LZ Granderson, "L.A. Times" op-ed columnist, host of "Life Out Loud with LZ Granderson" podcast, and visiting scholar at Western Michigan University. LZ, so glad to have you on tonight. I've been wondering what you were thinking about when you heard this. What was your reaction? Because I know all of my chats started to go, did you see this? Did you hear about this? What was your reaction? LZ GRANDERSON, OP-ED COLUMNIST FOR LOS ANGELES TIMES, PODCAST HOST, VISITING SCHOLAR AT WESTERN MICHIGAN UNIVERSITY: My first reaction was, why are you still giving this story oxygen, Janet, or anyone for this matter? You know, it was -- I felt that the two times that I've seen the vice president sort of addressed this criticism that recently really started with, you know, the former president of NABJ, National Association of Black Journalists Conference. You know, she sorts of, you know, brushed it aside because it was nonsensical.
And I felt the same way when I heard Janet Jackson's remarks. It's like, why are you using your platform in a way -- you know, something nonsensical when there's so many real things that are going on in the world? And I recognized that you were asked a question but, you know, you are, you know, an icon. You've been famous basically your entire life. You know how to pivot from a question, and yet you chose to use your time in that way. That was really disappointing.
COATES: I wish I could hear the audio as well because I find myself wondering what was all the context around it.
[23:54:58]
Maybe it's me thinking there must be some other reason or something that she said, or maybe it's just refusal to take it at face value of what she, in fact, did say. But listen to what Whoopi Goldberg said about it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, ACTRESS AND COMEDIAN: Janet Jackson is not a political animal.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yeah.
GOLDBERG: She does -- she's a -- she's a musician. Her life is doing this. And she's mourning her brother.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Hmm.
GOLDBERG: So --
UNKNOWN (voice-over): That's right.
GOLDBERG: -- I am -- I am -- you know, I sometimes have said stuff and, you know, I was wrong. But people want you to say something right away. You know, when people are coming at you saying, hey, you're not paying -- you're dumb. You don't know -- you know, you don't want to answer people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now, she may not be overly political, and we do recognize her brother, Tito Jackson, who I have interviewed. It was just great. He passed away just recently. Given that background that will be discussed, does she have responsibility to make sure what she says on her platform is accurate? Are we putting too much into what she had to say?
GRANDERSON: Well, I think, first, you know, as long as we don't respond to Janet Jackson with the same sort of fervor that we do with the former president, then I think we're fine. I think when we started equating those two is when, you know, we as a society started getting in trouble, because to Whoopi's point, this isn't her number one gig, this isn't her day job. She's a musician. She's also an actress. She has been an entertainer her entire life.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
GRANDERSON: That doesn't mean that she doesn't know anything about politics. It's just that I don't think that if you look at the spectrum of her career, you would think of her as a political animal. You know, Rhythm Nation 1814, I think, is about as edgy of a political piece of content that she has put out. So, I don't think we should be looking for her for guidance.
And yeah, I would give her grace with that, but you can still hold someone accountable. I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive. In other words, you can give her grace, meaning don't cancel her still support of music, but hold her accountable for using her platform irresponsibly.
COATES: I mean, she has been in the spotlight, as you've pointed out, for decades. I mean, she has been criticized, she has been judged, she has been disparaged, raked over the coal, she has been praised. You know, the story of a musical icon in America and across the globe. She has been picked on because she's a woman, because she's Black, because of her musical family.
Are you surprised, given her personal journey and her own levels of scandals, that she would have responded in this way?
GRANDERSON: I am, Laura. I am. And it really stems back to two decades ago with Nipplegate. You know, it was 20 years ago when, you know, to your point, all the things you said, that Janet Jackson was the center of in terms of unfair criticism, that was happening during Nipplegate.
And the reason why I think that's important to bring up is because the criticism wasn't just about the flashing of, you know, her body part, it was also about attacking her as a person and her identity and her values and her integrity. And in some ways, you know, when you disparage someone's identity with your platform, you're sort of doing the same thing.
And so, I was really disappointed that having been through Nipplegate herself as a Black woman in America, that even if you had heard rumors about the identity of another woman of color, knowing what rumors can do to a person's career, knowing what rumors can do to a Black woman or a woman of color in America, why would you take that time to fuel more rumors in that ecosystem, having experienced what you experienced, having that lived experience?
And so, for me, that was the disappointing part, is that, you know, 20 years ago, it felt as if the entire country was attacking Janet Jackson for her identity and what occurred on stage, and that doesn't seem to be that sort of recognition of similarity in terms of people attacking Kamala Harris based upon her identity.
COATES: And don't forget, they were comparing her in stark contrast to the white male who was also on that stage, one Justin Timberlake. I hadn't thought of that particular connection with respect to this story, but it's a really profound one that you've linked for us today.
You know, I want to talk also about Diddy for a moment, LZ, because there's new data that shows --
GRANDERSON: That's a --
COATES: Your whole body -- your whole body moved when I said the word "Diddy." I saw it. I understand why. I'm showing on the screen right now, as you can see it, that streams of his music have jumped 18% last week compared to the week before he was arrested. I wonder, what do you believe accounts for this increase?
GRANDERSON: I think there's a couple of things at play. I think, first and foremost, there's nostalgia. You know, Diddy is Diddy for a reason. You know, it wasn't because we didn't love his music, it wasn't because we didn't wear Sean John. He was a fourth pop culturally for decades. And so, I think some of that is just sort of reflection on, you know, what we thought Diddy was and through his music.
I think there's also a level of curiosity, you know, from younger generations who may not have been around or cognizant of the force that Diddy was when he was at the peak of his powers. So, I think that's curiosity.
[00:00:00]
And there may be a little bit of people, you know, trying to use the streaming as a way of pushing back against the system. And I -- you know, we saw that happen with Morgan Wallen, the country singer, soon after he was saw on video using the N-word. You know, his album sales actually spiked, um, despite the fact he was using that racial slur, and some people were using it as a way of pushing back against the system.
And so, you know, I do think that maybe some elements of that when it comes to the streaming, but I would like to think most people who are doing it are doing it for nostalgic reasons because Diddy was a beloved figure for a long time.
COATES: Hmm. LZ Granderson, thank you so much for joining. Great to hear your insight.
GRANDERSON: Thank you for having me, Laura.
COATES: And a thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" starts right now.
