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Laura Coates Live
Israeli Forces Enters Lebanon; Trump Unleashes Political Storm Over Hurricane Response; Vance and Walz Prepare for High-Stakes Debate; Chimney Rock is "Wiped Off the Map"; CNN Remembers Dikembe Mutombo and Pete Rose. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired September 30, 2024 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: -- bestseller list. Dana, I can't think of another book more ideal for these times.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.
PHILLIP: We started talking in the show about violent rhetoric. This is -- this is about that.
BASH: Violent rhetoric. This is 1872 in Louisiana. None of us remember that, but we -- but we should. And we should learn more about it. I was very lucky to work with my co-author, David Fisher, on it because it wasn't just rhetoric, it was actual violence, really deadly violence, and it was all race-based.
PHILLIP: This is excellent. We're really proud of you, really happy for you, Dana Bash. And everyone, thank you very much for being here. And thank you at home for watching "NewsNight: State of the Race." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: We start with breaking news tonight. Israeli forces are now entering Lebanon. They are carrying out what they call a limited ground operation. It is a major escalation, one that is renewing fears that Iran could now be poised to step in. The Pentagon tonight is set to deploy additional U.S. troops and fighter jets all to the region in response.
So far, we know that the IDF says it's targeting Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon. The announcement comes just hours after Israeli raids and artillery fire was reported across the border. Airstrikes also hitting inside of Beirut City limits for the first time since October 7th. Just a short time ago, we saw a projectile over the night sky in Tel Aviv. Now, it's unclear where it came from.
The ground operation follows a rapid escalation in fighting over the past couple of weeks along with massive setbacks for Iran-backed Hezbollah. The group's communication took a hit after thousands of their pagers and walkie talkies exploded. Israel has also taken out several Hezbollah leaders, including the man at the very top, Hassan Nasrallah.
CNN is on the ground tonight in the region. Senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is in Beirut and international correspondent Jeremy Diamond is in Northern Israel. Ben, let me begin with you. This is a limited ground operation into Southern Lebanon. It's happening as we speak. What is the situation on the ground right now?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Laura, the Israelis say it's a limited ground operation, but the fear here is that it's going to be much more. Israel has an invasion of launching -- has a history of launching limited ground incursions that end up, for instance, in 1982, surrounding where I am, the city of Beirut, particularly the western side.
But we have heard from people in the south that the Israeli incursion was preceded by intense bombardments stretching well into Lebanon. We spoke to one family near the border who said that there was shelling all around them, that they were terrified. They called the Lebanese army to extract them. But the Lebanese army had pulled their forces back from their observation posts in the border, and because of the shelling, they weren't able to.
Now, we have in Lebanon at the moment more than a million people who've been displaced by Israeli bombing or threats of bombing, and the worry is that if Israeli forces enter South Lebanon in large numbers, it basically becomes an invasion, then a million could become much more. This is a country that has been going through a prolonged economic -- economic collapse. The government doesn't have the resources to house, to feed, to shelter these people and, therefore, people are just terrified that this is the beginning of yet another nightmare for Lebanon. Laura?
COATES: Jeremy, let me bring you in here as Ben has described what's going on in Beirut. Israel has called this a new phase of the conflict. What do we know about their plans? I mean, how large of an operation is this or how long might it last?
JEREMY DIAMOND, JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, we don't know exactly what the size of the force that Israel has sent into Lebanon tonight. But make no mistake, even as Israeli officials try to downplay this by calling it a limited operation, the Israeli military saying that these are limited, localized, targeted ground raids. This is the first time in nearly two decades that the Israeli military has announced that it has sent a ground force into Lebanon. The last time, of course, was during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon war.
And this is taking this conflict to new heights. Israeli officials tell me that this operation is going to be focused on the villages and the Hezbollah posts along the Israel-Gaza -- Israel-Lebanon border.
[23:04:57]
But, at the same time, we know that -- we don't know exactly how far those troops are going to go and for how long they will be staying there. One senior Israeli official telling me that they have no intention of a long-term occupation of Southern Lebanon. They say that is not going to happen, but they also won't tell me exactly how long they expect this ground operation to last.
And, of course, we know, as Ben was talking about, there is always a risk once you get into a ground fighting of mission creep, of these soldiers going deeper into Lebanon, of the mission being extended further in terms of scope as well as timing, of course. Tonight, though, I can tell you that we are hearing the sounds of that ground operation. Artillery very frequently, very consistently being fired from very near to where we are --
COATES: Hmm.
DIAMOND: -- just a couple miles away from the Lebanon border into Southern Lebanon. And, of course, in Southern Lebanon, we are seeing some of those explosions, we are seeing the flares as this ground operation begins. The question now, how long it will last? Laura?
COATES: Ben Wedeman, Jeremy Diamond, thank you both so much. We'll continue to rely on you to be our eyes on the ground, respectively.
Now, I want to bring in David Sanger, a CNN political and national security analyst. He's also the White House and national security correspondent for "The New York Times." Also here, David Hale, former U.S. ambassador to Lebanon, Pakistan, and Jordan. Also, Major John Spencer, the chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute and the co-author of "Understanding Urban Warfare."
Ambassador Hale, let me begin with you this evening. How do you think Iran is viewing this move by Israel tonight?
DAVID HALE, FORMER UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE POLITICAL AFFAIRS: Iran has suffered a series of blows, obviously, because of the successes of Israeli operations against their most precious proxy, Hezbollah, after a long period in which the Iranians felt they had the upper hand.
But I -- I -- you know, we can't discount anything, but the pattern of the past has been such that the Iranians would be loath to get themselves directly involved in a confrontation with Iran. We saw that -- with Israel, excuse me. We saw that in the -- earlier this year when the Iranian Revolutionary Guard commanders were killed in Damascus. Iran lobbed a bunch of missiles and drones into toward Israel. And Israel and the United States and other neighboring states were successful in interdicting those attacks.
So, I think the Iranians prefer to go back to where they're comfortable, which is asymmetrical warfare in which Arab proxies are paying the price for the campaign against Israel.
COATES: David Sanger, you know, Netanyahu launched the operation just hours after President Biden said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Israel may now be launching a limited operation into Lebanon. Are you aware of that? Are you comfortable with their plans? JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm more aware than you might know, and I'm comfortable with them stopping. We should have a ceasefire now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: David, why does there seem to be so much daylight between the United States and Israel right now?
DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE AND NATIOANAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, it is remarkable, and there are a couple of possible explanations. One of them is that these two leaders don't have a whole lot left to say to each other. Since this all began with -- more than 10 days ago, the Pager attacks, the attack on the missile facility or manufacturing facility in Syria, and the killing of Nasrallah, there have been no conversations yet between President Biden and Prime Minister Netanyahu. The White House has said that they're looking for an opportunity to do that. Well, it wouldn't be very hard to do one.
Second is, I suspect that the prime minister has determined that, first of all, the United States is certainly not going to protest the killing of a mass murderer like Nasrallah. I mean, after all, Hezbollah and Nasrallah were on the U.S. terror list. So, they were well within the bounds of the relationship for that. But I think that the prime minister has calculated rightly that he could ignore the call for a ceasefire that you just heard from president Biden. And that the administration told us last Wednesday night, they thought the Israelis had agreed to. Well, that was just before they began all of this invasion.
So, it's a pretty remarkable example of defiance of an ally and, in part, it's because President Biden has declined to use his only leverage, which would be to withhold some weaponry. He doesn't want to do that and appear to be keeping Israel from defending itself.
COATES: Major Spencer, we bring you in to this conversation as well because Israel says they are going after "a number of villages" -- that's their quote -- "on the border." What would an operation like that actually look like?
MAJOR JOHN SPENCER, CHAIR OF URBAN WARFARE STUDIES AT MODERN WAR INSTITUTE, AUTHOR: Yeah, it would be very contested. I mean, similar, but if not, worse than 2006 Lebanon war.
[23:10:01]
Hezbollah has had many, many years to prepare. It's called the land of tunnels. The Hezbollah tunnels in Southern Lebanon are hundreds of miles. The antitank-guided munitions have advanced since 2006. It would be a very strong fight. And we've seen to include what the IDF have released of Hezbollah also trying to embed in civilian areas like those urban areas, which are bigger now. I mean, all the roads lead to urban areas.
But I -- I mean, I don't want somebody thinking this will look like the urban warfare of Gaza. I mean, the objectives are different, the terrain is different, even the strategic goals that this is about putting Hezbollah out of a direct gun pointed at Israelis' heads. I was up there in February. You can -- you can literally see positions where they're not supposed to be, in accordance with the U.N. Security Council resolution, but you can see positions from Israel's actual border. So, it would be a lot different, but yes, there would be very destructive warfare trying to get Hezbollah to adhere to, you know, over a year's worth of diplomatic means to get them to clear back.
COATES: Major Spencer, we are aware, too, that there's an unspecified number of U.S. troops that are being put on prepare to deploy orders. And I want to bring in at this point, too, David Sanger on this point. Is there a risk here? You and I have talked about this in the past. When you've got an unspecified number of troops that are getting these orders and these orders are prepared to deploy orders, Americans ears perk up. The question being, of course, will the U.S. end up getting involved specifically in this?
SANGER: Well, if the history is any indication, the U.S. would probably do everything it could to stay out. But there is one condition under which I imagine the U.S. could be brought into it, Laura, and that would be if the Israelis go directly after Iran or against Iran's nuclear program and the Iranians respond against Israel.
We did see in the spring that the U.S. participated very heavily in intercepting a direct missile attack, the first one in decades, against Israel from Iran. Actually, it was the first since the Iranian revolution, and I could imagine seeing that situation again. And, of course, that's exactly what the president is trying to avoid in the last four months of his presidency and at a time that Donald Trump is, you know, making a somewhat disingenuous case that the world was at peace when he was president.
COATES: Ambassador Hale, I'm eager to hear your response on this because we keep hearing this phrase tonight, the IDF saying it's a limited operation. They're not giving a timeline. Do you have an expectation of what that timeline would look like and what the parameters of a so-called limited operation would look like?
HALE: Well, the Israelis learned in the 2006 war, which is the last time we can sort of judge how things go, although the level of sophistication and amount of equipment is -- military equipment is vastly larger. But they found that although their chief of staff at the IDF convinced the prime minister that they could achieve their goals through an air assault only, it turned out they couldn't. And so, they were forced at the very end of the 2006 war to launch a ground invasion that didn't go very well.
I think they've learned some of those lessons, and I think they realize if they're going to achieve their goal of creating a security environment on the border that enables 60,000 civilians to go back home, they do have to go in and mop things up.
But the key question, as your correspondent in the field said, was, what really -- how do you define and how do they define limited and short-term, because that's a very subjective set of things. And if it's really quick and really short, that's fine, but there's a temptation to have the mission complete (ph).
And there's nothing, by the way, that would be more welcomed by Iran and Hezbollah than have the Iranians -- have the Israelis bogged down again in the long-term occupation in Lebanon. That was guaranteed to turn the tables back again in favor of Hezbollah over time in the Lebanese environment. So, I hope the Israelis have learned that lesson. We'll do what they're announcing, which is that this will be quick and limited.
COATES: Gentlemen, we'll be waiting to see what happens next. This is a very urgent situation. Stand by. Thank you, everyone.
There's much more ahead on this very busy Monday night. Also, North Carolina is in crisis in the wake of Hurricane Helene, and some communities are entirely cut off. And now, Donald Trump is turning the hurricane into a political storm, which is weeks to go until the election. Plus, J.D. Vance and Tim Walz set to face off tomorrow. The only Democrat to have ever debated Vance will be my guest tonight.
[23:15:02]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: In 2024, America, it seems no topic is safe from being politicized, not even the immediate aftermath of a devastating hurricane. Donald Trump is now trying to accuse President Biden and Vice President Harris of falling short in their response to deadly disaster. In a post on Truth Social, he claims the Biden-Harris administration and North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper are not helping people in Republican areas.
[23:19:55]
And then, during his visit in Valdosta, Georgia, he said Biden wasn't being responsive to the Georgia governor, Brian Kemp, taking a jab at Harris in the process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's having a hard time getting the president on the phone. I guess they're not -- they're not being responsive. The federal government is not being responsive. The vice president, she's out someplace campaigning, looking for money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Okay, where do I begin? Because there's a lot wrong with what he has just said, like factually incorrect. First, President Biden says that he has talked to Governor Kemp. Don't take Biden's word for it. Here's Kemp himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): The president just called me yesterday afternoon. I missed him and called him right back. And he just said, hey, what do you need?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Second, the president and Governor Cooper directly addressed Trump's claims that people in Republican areas were being left behind somehow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: He's lying. And the governor told me he was lying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ROY COOPER (D-NC): It makes no difference who you are. If you need help, we are going to provide it. And if there is ever a time where we all need to come together and put politics aside, it is now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: And third, Harris cut short a West Coast campaign swing over Helene's devastation. She was actually on a plane back to Washington this morning and visited FEMA headquarters to get briefed on recovery efforts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I plan to be on the ground as soon as possible, but as soon as possible without disrupting any emergency response operations. But to all of those of you who are rightly feeling overwhelmed by the destruction and the loss, our nation is with you, and President Biden and I and all of the folks behind me are with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: So, just so we're clear, these two states Trump is talking about, Georgia and North Carolina, both are critical battleground states. I'll let you connect the dots. Trump's attacks over Helene are just the tip of the iceberg of recent false claims and, frankly, stunning rhetoric, even by his own standards. On Saturday, he dialed up the personal attacks against Harris to a whole another level.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Kamala is mentally impaired. Joe Biden became mentally impaired. Kamala was born that way. And if you think about it, only a mentally disabled person could have allowed this to happen to our country. Anybody would know this.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: Oh, sorry, did my eyes roll? Excuse me. Trump called his own words a -- quote -- "dark speech." It did not get any lighter the next day, by the way. He repeated the same insults at his rally in Pennsylvania. And then he said this about property crime at retail stores.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: People walk in, they just take everything they want, they walk out of the store. What the hell is going on? See, we have to let the police do their job. And if they have to be extraordinarily rough --
(APPLAUSE)
One rough hour, and I mean really rough, the word will get out and it will end immediately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Maybe the Fourth Amendment ends immediately. You know, the constitutional directive that you actually cannot have an unreasonable search or seizure and the body be -- I want to bring in CNN political commentator and senior spokesperson for Hillary Clinton 2016 campaign, Karen Finney, and senior adviser to the Trump-Vance presidential campaign, Bryan Lanza.
Bryan, let me begin with you. I know you know I'm coming to you right now on this, I have to tell you, because these are false claims. I mean, they're false and who he has spoken to, the ideas about federal relief being withheld to Republican areas. I mean, he spoke to -- they spoke to both Cooper and Kemp. They said it's not true as well. Why politicize this moment, particularly as it's so easily fact-checked?
BRYAN LANZA, FORMER DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR TRUMP 2016 CAMPAIGN, SENIOR ADVISER FOR TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: Well, listen, I would say this: You know, President Trump was president for four years. He's had natural disasters, so he knows for himself what should be done and what's getting done, he knows the pressures, he knows what presidential moments look like. Presidential moments are not Joe Biden hanging out on the beach or Kamala Harris, you know, hanging out with rich donors in San Francisco and L.A. Presidential leadership is going in there and getting an assessment from the people.
And what he has heard from the people on the ground, whether it's Georgia or whether he was in North Carolina and more facts are going to come out, but what he heard is, initially on the ground, that people in North Carolina are feeling left behind. And so, from his experience, knowing what a FEMA response should be, he's hearing from people and it's raising concerns, and he's raising that to the attention.
Sure, people want to sort of extrapolate and say he's making it up, but he did hear concerns from North Carolina, whether it's from local law enforcement, whether it's from people, supporters. There are serious problems going on there, and Joe Biden was on the beach and Harris is out at fundraiser in San Francisco. Those are not the images you want in these moments of leadership. What you want is somebody on the ground. And so --
COATES: Hold on. On that point, though, Bryan, because of his experience, one would think, having handled natural disasters and overseeing what FEMA is doing, the last thing these local leaders need is to have to respond to questions like, I'm sorry, did Trump say this?
[23:25:06]
Was this actually true? They need help more than they need to be fact- checking. It just seems like a very interesting -- and by interesting, I mean ridiculous notion, that rather than support, you have to address a blatant lie.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's also desperate and pathetic, because the other thing that Trump knows is that in the first -- having gone through this myself, in the first 24, 48 hours, they also don't want you coming, right? I mean, they were talking about this today, that President Biden is going to take a trip --
COATES: And why is that, though? Explain why that's --
FINNEY: Sure.
COATES: You often hear them say, if it's not a burden to have me come, I'll come.
FINNEY: Well, because we have to remember, a presidential visit, a vice presidential visit means resources that could be otherwise out looking for people who might be -- you know, there are people found today who have been hiding out from the storm or stuck in their homes. That means you're taking away first responders and resources, police officers, you know, EMTs, all of that, to then protect the president.
And for someone particularly like Donald Trump, who now has, I think, probably a higher threat level that they're protecting, you know, in terms of the resources, and he knows this from when he was president, you don't want anything distracting people from the job. People don't have electricity. They don't have water. My cousin's two older sons, he couldn't talk to them for 24 hours because they were in Asheville.
COATES: Hmm.
FINNEY: And it wasn't because they were left behind or because somebody wasn't doing their job, it was because the roads were washed out, there's no electricity, they couldn't -- there wasn't even a place to get resources in. They're finally getting resources. Hold on, Bryan. You get resources in today.
But what's so disturbing about it is, the -- you know, Governor Cooper is right. This should be a moment where we come together as Americans and say, hey, what can I do to help? What do you need? And I would just remind us, Donald Trump did handle a disaster. It was called the pandemic, a global pandemic. And because of his actions, millions of people died, flat out. And who came in and cleaned up the mess? Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. So, if we're going to, you know, sort of compare presidential leadership, they got shots in arms, money in people's pockets, got us out of our homes, and Donald Trump was telling us to put bleach in our arms.
COATES: Bryan is giggling. Why?
LANZA: I mean, more people save -- no one saved more lives during this pandemic worldwide than Donald Trump --
(LAUGHTER)
-- and the actions.
COATES: Now, Karen is laughing. I got to giggle, I got to laugh, come on.
LANZA: Well, listen --
FINNEY: Million people died.
LANZA: -- it was -- it was -- it was Donald Trump's administration that put to the forefront the project, you know, the project about the vaccine. No --
FINNEY: Yeah, and then he told people not to take it.
LANZA: Hold on, hold on, hold on. No -- so did Kamala Harris. She wouldn't say she wanted to take it. So, if you want to offer that criticism, the current V.P. --
FINNEY: She didn't tell people to put bleach in their arms.
LANZA: Absolutely. She goes, she goes -- I've got reservations about taking it.
FINNEY: Yeah --
LANZA: That's a very dangerous moment if you're saying Donald Trump was being dangerous. At least acknowledge that. No one -- they should --
FINNEY: No. There is more behind --
LANZA: But I would say, too, with respect to the vaccine, the vaccine saved the world. And that was Donald Trump's administration and that was in leadership putting the money and funding the backstop for these pharmaceuticals who just go forward and do these things. The pharmaceutical companies have come forward and said, we would have never done it had it not been the federal government stepping --
FINNEY: Absolutely.
COATES: I want to move forward for a second on this --
FINNEY: Yeah. COATES: -- because I know this is -- this is maybe part of what we'll hear tomorrow in the debate, about the idea of who performed better. But let's talk about the rhetoric that is also here. That's why we're hearing more and more. And the personal attacks against Harris are continuing.
FINNEY: Yeah.
COATES: And frankly, I'm a little taken aback, even in a world where I'm not often taken aback anymore with all that we've heard. But, I mean, the idea of Trump calling her mentally impaired, there is the moral issue, there is the illogically political issue as well. Bryan, why go that route? How does that serve Trump? I don't understand why that would make you say, as a voter, he thinks as a voter, that's the one I want to vote for, the one who gets that wrong.
LANZA: I would say voters aren't going to make the decision on the insults, because if they're going to be doing that, they're going to be voting for Donald Trump, because he's the most insulted presidential candidate and president of all time by the Harris, by the Democrats, by the media. So, if we're going to play the insult games and what are the voters going to focus on, they'd probably be giving Trump the advantage. But voters aren't focused --
COATES: But wait, you had Congressman Emmer, who was asked this question yesterday about what he thought about -- he's actually playing Walz in the debate prep. He talked about not wanting -- this is not helpful. Senator Lindsey Graham --
LANZA: They're not the ones being insulted. I'm sorry.
COATES: Senator Lindsey Graham said the same thing.
LANZA: They're not the ones being insulted. I'm going to be --
COATES: But so with Harris.
LANZA: Donald Trump is specifically being insulted. Just recently, Kamala Harris said, he's not mentally competent to be making these plans. He has been insulted for years. So, every once in a while, he decides to pop back and punch people back in the face and say, you're going to insult me, here's going to be the response, and that's what happens. Sure, politicians can criticize it, but I don't see -- I don't see these other politicians being insulted to the avenue that President Trump has been.
COATES: But some have it by Trump. I mean, talking about Graham.
LANZA: Sure, yeah, yeah.
COATES: It's one thing. It's not out of the blue.
FINNEY: But also --
LANZA: Listen, the best memory I have is Trump giving out Graham's phone number. I'm sure he doesn't give it out to you (ph) -- (LAUGHTER)
-- but the cell number was a good memory for me.
[23:29:57]
FINNEY: But I would also say, again, it's desperate and it's unnecessary. Donald Trump, though, is incapable. He has proven this over and over and over again. He is incapable of standing up, even with a teleprompter, and giving a speech, walking you through the details of, here's how I'm going to curb inflation, here's what the real impact of the tariffs would be, here's how I'm going to handle it. He's incapable. All he has is he gets on these rifts, where he starts attack, attack, attack. That's like his default.
And I will say, it does matter to voters. It's part of why women voters are saying, no more, I don't want that from my leader. And again, if we think about what we were just talking about, in a moment like this, in a crisis moment, you don't want a leader who is out there --
LANZA: On the beach, on a fundraiser, you're right.
FINNEY: Well, and, as you know, Bryan, you're being very disingenuous because you also know that the president can be anywhere and be able to handle a crisis.
LANZA: People want to see -- they want to leadership and all they saw was Joe Biden on the beach --
FINNEY: No, they didn't.
LANZA: One the phone. And where was Harris?
FINNEY: At that moment, they didn't care.
LANZA: They absolutely care. They want to --
FINNEY: You're telling me how my family members care?
LANZA: I'm saying voters absolutely care.
FINNEY: You don't get to tell me how my people care.
LANZA: You're right. But people in North Carolina get to say how they care. And what did they see at that particular moment? They were looking for leadership and they saw Joe Biden on the beach and Harris at a fundraiser.
FINNEY: You know what? That is a great talking point. That is a great talking point.
LANZA: Sure. And that's what you guys will be saying in reverse when Donald Trump is president. I'm sure of it.
FINNEY: Well, my preview of the debate tomorrow is a leader versus a liar because we're going to see --
LANZA: Walz is a liar.
FINNEY: We are going to see Vance lie. He admitted to Dana Bash right here on this set that he was lying about Springfield, Ohio. So, let's --
LANZA: And we heard the lies about Walz's military record.
FINNEY: That has now put children in danger.
LANZA: So, we do you want to go?
COATES: Oh, where do you want to go, you ask?
LANZA: Yeah.
COATES: My next segment --
(LAUGHTER)
-- because I'm actually going to talk to somebody who is the person who actually debated Senator J.D. Vance. We'll call it the showdown. Governor Tim Walz and Senator J.D. Vance is going to face off tomorrow, as they have both predicted and indicated. How is it going to unfold? Well, the former congressman, Tim Ryan, would know because he debated him not once, but twice. He'll join me next. Now, for the arm wrestling.
(LAUGHTER)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You'll see it tomorrow with J.D. It'll be stacked. He's going up against a moron, a total moron. How she picked him is unbelievable. And I think it's a big factor. There's something wrong with that guy. He's sick.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Donald Trump upping his insult game ahead of the one and only V.P. debate between Senator J.D. Vance and Governor Tim Walz. It could be the final matchup between the two campaigns generally, and it promises to be must-see T.V.
I want to bring in, though, the last person and, frankly, the only Democrat to debate J.D. Vance, former Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan. Good to see you, congressman. I mean, you and I have talked about this before, thinking about this debate. You have debated him twice. How do you see this whole thing going down? TIM RYAN, FORMER OHIO REPRESENTATIVE, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think it's going to be a really interesting dynamic. I think you have kind of the happy warrior vibe going with the Harris-Walz campaign of which Tim Walz is a big part of that, and then you kind of have the insults, the kind of grumpy young guy who is kind of giving voice to the grumpy old guy, and I think that's going to be the main dynamic there.
But, you know, J.D. Vance is Ivy League-educated. You know, he's a talented guy in his own way. And so, you know, he should have a real advantage going into the debate. So, we'll just have to see how it plays out.
COATES: Well, he has had, you know, the gauntlet when he was running recently, right? When he was taking office in the past year or so. And he had to have what? Almost a dozen different debates. Certainly, he is probably more experienced lately with these debating. I mean, but the two of them have exchanged in pretty ugly personal attacks. Vance on Walz's misstatements on his military, Walz on how weird Vance is. Is there a risk, though, that if the two are trading barbs more than they are trading policy distinctions in a clear and maybe even a specific way, that voters will be turned off?
RYAN: It's a big risk. And, you know, the lights are on, the camera is on, you're in the heat of the argument, the debate. It's easy to go down that road. But the winner usually is the person who can stay focused, like a laser beam, on the American people. What are we trying -- what policies are we trying? You have to get into the details. The Democrats could be famous for, you know, reading off a 10-point plan till people's eyes glaze over. Keep it on the values, keep it on the aspirations of the American people, and always contrast that with what we just heard from Donald Trump.
Do we really want to hear four more years of this guy? And he's older and not in great health and it could be J.D. Vance who in many ways is even worse, or do we want to try to move on into an America that's a little more hopeful, a little more optimistic? So, always finding those touchstones throughout the course of the debate to put that contrast out there because the exhausted majority will not want four more years of this, and he needs to point that out as many times as he can tomorrow night.
COATES: Look, I don't think either Walz or Vance could be underestimated or should be underestimated. You got, you know, Walz who is somebody -- a governor of the state, certainly has not back down, at least in front of the microphone, and outwardly on this campaign. You have Vance who has been able to be a good pivoter and quick on speed debates. There's that famous debate when you get two people who were almost chest to chest fighting, and he was able to reclaim the moment there.
CNN reporting that Walz is nervous, though, and doesn't want to let Harris down. Understandable. Trump's campaign is stressing that Walz is a wily political veteran, although Trump just used the word to describe him -- very different one.
[23:40:00]
What do you make of the campaigns setting these expectations?
RYAN: Well, I think that that's always a part of it. And if you're not a little bit nervous going into something like this, then you shouldn't be doing it because you don't care. I mean, this is a very high-stakes thing. But I think the reality really is that J.D. needs to win this. You know, he's got to look really good. I'm sure he's going to be very, very nervous because he's got, you know, his father figure, Donald Trump, who he is aiming to please a thousand percent in the last few years. He's got to please him tomorrow night.
I think it's interesting, too, that Walz is going to have the audience of the American people. He's going to try to persuade independent voters. He's going to try to persuade moderate Republican voters to come their way. J.D. Vance has an audience of one. He needs one person to be happy after that debate tomorrow night, and that's Donald Trump.
And so, he's going to try to, I think, give those insults, make -- impress Trump by being very aggressive. And that can come off pretty poorly if people are wanting to move on from an exhausted politics. So, he's going to be very careful. But I do think it's interesting he has one person in the country of almost 340 million that he has to please tomorrow night.
COATES: Well, he's got more than one topic he has to cover. And it can't just be the policy. There's been a number of comments that Vance himself has made, whether it has been the childless cat ladies, whether it has been conversations that was going on in Springfield or -- I should be more accurate, was not going on in Springfield, the eating of cats and dogs, the absurd allegations and accusations. If you're Tim -- if you're Governor Walz, are you advising him, you think, to bring up any of those moments?
RYAN: Yeah, I think you have to. I mean, I think they'll come up. I mean, I don't know how you could do this debate in the -- in the -- you know, the dogs and cats in Springfield doesn't come up because it was such a bold lie that trashed this town, hurt their economic development prospects, hurt the people in the town, gave bomb threats to kids in schools and universities and the city hall.
So, it goes to character. And I think that's going to be the key for what Tim Walz has to really articulate tomorrow, is that it's got to come down to character. Like, yeah, you lied about your constituents. They were in his state. He's elected to represent Springfield, Ohio in the most powerful deliberative body in the world. And that's what he does to him, right? He's supposed to represent women and he's saying, well, if you're in a violent marriage as a woman, you should stay in that marriage, or you shouldn't have access to healthcare if you have a complicated pregnancy. Like all of these things add up.
The fake opiate charity that he started to try to launch his political career didn't put one nickel towards opiates or anyone having an overdose. He spent money on polling and a political advisor. So, yeah, those are issues. But they speak to the character, that Trump and Vance will step over anyone's body they need to in order to hold power. And they try to scare people. World War III is going to happen, the economy is going to collapse. You know, all of these bad things. You hear how they talk about people. They're -- we're competitors. We're still Americans. We're not enemies here. And Trump talks about them like we're enemies.
And so, he's got to point that out. These are character issues. These aren't policy issues. You stay on those, and I think point that out, that J.D. Vance could very well be president of the United States because the guy ahead of him is older and not in great health. I think people are going to look closely at his policies, and I think be rightfully worried of what kind of leader he would be.
COATES: Well, we'll see how voters respond tomorrow night, just coming up very quick. Tim Ryan, thank you so much.
RYAN: Thank you.
COATES: Search and rescue efforts ongoing in North Carolina three days after Helene rolled through, with fears that the death toll is actually rising. Tonight, we'll take you to one of the hardest hit areas. The town of Chimney Rock nearly wiped off the map. The city's mayor and owner of this now destroyed business is with me next.
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[23:45:00]
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COATES: A 128 people dead across six states from Hurricane Helene. And officials warn that number could climb much higher in the coming days, with many people who are sadly still missing, at least two million without power. This is four days after Hurricane Helene even made landfall. North Carolina is one of the hardest hit areas with 56 people who have died alone in that state. A city council member surveying debris described the scene as post-apocalyptic. That's near Lake Lure and Chimney Rock.
And here's what downtown Asheville looks like right now. Before the storm, a vibrant downtown area. It's now entirely underwater. In Chimney Rock, a small tourist town with a population just over 100 people, the town is now in disarray. The Bubba O'Leary's General Store, ruined. That general store is owned by the mayor of Chimney Rock, and Mayor Peter O'Leary joins me now.
Mayor O'Leary, thank you so much for being here this evening. It is just so difficult to see these images. We know your town is in very rough shape. Can you give us your assessment? How much damage are we talking about?
MAYOR PETER O'LEARY, CHIMNEY ROCK, NORTH CAROLINA: We're talking about a tremendous amount of damage.
[23:49:57]
I mean, it's literally -- people have talked about the town being just wiped away and washed away. And -- and while not literally true, it's just devastating. I mean, the doubt -- the business district, which is very small and serves all the visitors that come through, is virtually 100% either destroyed or damaged to the point where the buildings may need to be torn down or totally redone. So, yeah, devastating total -- you know, just total devastation, really.
COATES: Unbelievable to think about what this has done to the community. And, of course, I'm thinking about not only the livelihoods, but the people who are there. Are there people who are still missing --
O'LEARY: Right.
COATES: -- in your community?
O'LEARY: I'm not aware of anybody that's missing. We do have -- there -- there -- there are some people that we're not quite sure if they made it to a shelter or how to account for them. So, you know, we're -- we're still trying to just make sure we connect everybody with their families, at least in some form or fashion. A lot of people are looking for loved ones. But it's -- you know, it's -- we're just taking every day at a time.
COATES: How challenging has it been for people to even make those connections, to reach their loved ones, to figure out where they are in the -- in between?
O'LEARY: It's -- it's -- it's very challenging. We have a very bad or really non-existent cell service in Chimney Rock, also the Ashland, Hendersonville. So, the whole area here that has been hit hard has very spotty cellphone service. I have -- I'm actually staying maybe 10 or 15 miles outside of town and part of the reason is so in the evening and the morning, we can communicate with people because once I go back down into the village, it's -- there's no communication other than fire and emergency radios.
COATES: Wow. I'm just thinking about how people must be trying to communicate, and the frustration and the fear. I mean, speaking about -- we're looking at some of the areas and the devastation and what looks to be a lake that's now just covered with debris. You own the general story that's down in town. Will you rebuild? Have you even gotten to think about that?
O'LEARY: You know, it's -- I've talked to a lot of people and it's still just so -- so fresh for everybody. And, of course, we want to rebuild, all of us want to rebuild, but we have monumental challenges in front of us. And like I said, you know, the business district in effect, it is 100% a destroyed when you talk about that one area.
We do have houses up on the side of the gorge that are not -- haven't been damaged, but anything close to the river was destroyed. In some areas, the river is four to five times what it -- the width that it used to be. And what you have to remember, like you said about Lake Lure, everything that was wiped off the river banks is now in Lake Lure. So, it's -- it's just -- it's terrible. I hear warzone a lot. I hate -- I don't want to use that word because that's, you know, just not appropriate in some ways, but it -- but total devastation is -- is, you know, very appropriate to say because it's -- it's gone. A lot of it is gone, yes.
COATES: It looks totally unrecognizable. And the idea that image is going to stick in my mind, that figure, four to five times wider as a body of water, that just tells you the scope of what has happened. You know, the president, President Biden, is coming to North Carolina on Wednesday. What would you tell President Biden Chimney Rock needs most right now, mayor?
O'LEARY: Well, what we need right now most is financial assistance going forward. Chimney Rock, like I said, you know, there is a strong spirit to rebuild the town, rebuild the area. Chimney Rock is a historic, iconic landmark for Western North Carolina. It's -- you know, the history of the village, it has got a rich history with a lot of folks that have visited here for, you know, over 100 years. It's something that we need to preserve, protect, and make available to people.
So, it's going to be a long road because this -- this devastation is -- is tremendous and there's no shortcuts to rebuild. So, we need financial commitment to rebuild this and to continue to make it available to people.
COATES: Mayor Peter O'Leary, thank you so much for joining us, and I'm just so sorry to see the extensive devastation in your community. We certainly hope that you can come back stronger.
O'LEARY: Thank you. I appreciate it and appreciate all the prayers and support that people have given us. We do have a GoFundMe page on the Chimney Rock Facebook. So, we would love -- we just appreciate any and all support and prayers in particular.
COATES: Mayor Peter O'Leary, thank you so much.
[23:55:00]
O'LEARY: You're welcome.
COATES: Up next, we remember two athletes who achieved legendary status in their sport. Basketball's finger-wagging big man, Dikembe Mutombo, and baseball's controversial hit king, Pete Rose, next.
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COATES: Before we go tonight, I want to remember two sports icons who passed away today. Pete Rose, all-time hits leader in the MLB, three times World Series champion, undeniably one of the greats. But a gambling scandal got him banned. Pete Rose was 83. And then there's Dikembe Mutombo, the basketball hall of famer who was known for his finger wag, his big smile, and his philanthropy. Matumbo led the NBA in block shots for five seasons in a row.
[23:59:58] Off the court, he was the NBA's first global ambassador. He formed a professional league in Africa. He paid for Congo's women's basketball team to go to the 1996 Olympics. He raised money to build a hospital in Congo. He funded a tuition-free school near where his parents grew up, all with a single goal in mind.
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DIKEMBE MUTOMBO, FORMER BASKETBALL PLAYER: My life mission is to continue to change the living condition of the people in Africa. I might have not won the championship, but I'm a champion to so many people.
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COATES: And he was. He died after battling a brain tumor surrounded by his family. Dikembe Mutombo was 58.
