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Laura Coates Live

Harris and Trump Intersect on Battleground State Michigan; Trump Rambles on Fox & Friends; Trump Reveals People From Fox Wrote Jokes at Al Smith Dinner; Manhood is Under Attack Says Trump; Barack and Michelle Obama to Campaign for Harris; The Age of Political Lies; Trump Love Cows. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired October 18, 2024 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:03]

ROY WOOD, JR, CORRESPONDENT, THE DAILY SHOW: If I'm the Madam Vice President, I would try to go and get everybody else's votes. I know the purpose of that event is raise money for the Catholic charities. She contributed a video. That's just got to be what it is. We talking about who didn't show up to the Correspondent's Dinner for a couple of times.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: That's right, yeah. The Correspondent's Dinner is not the place he wants to be at all. Actually, Roy was also very good at the Correspondent's Dinner. Great. Looking forward to the show. Tomorrow, have I got news for you. Everyone else, thank you very much for joining us. "Laura Coates Live" starts next.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, just 18 days to go and the race for the White House is neck and neck and things today begin personal.

Kamala Harris and Donald Trump trading jabs as they go head to head tonight in the Midwest's biggest battleground state. I'm talking about Michigan. They're courting voters, they're cleaning up messes of their own making, and well, going for the jugular. Remember, just a few months ago, President Biden was pressured out of his re-election bid. We all remember that because of his fears, of fears that they had about him, that he wasn't mentally fit for another four years in office.

Well, tonight, a similar sentiment is being used by Kamala Harris in her closing argument against Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And now, check this out, he is ducking debates and canceling interviews. His own campaign team is saying it's because of exhaustion. All right, well, here's the thing. If you are exhausted from the campaign trail, it raises real questions about you are fit for the toughest job in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Harris, of course, is referring there to political reporting that says that Trump backed out of the interview this week because he was, quote, "exhausted." And Trump appears, well, frankly, quite ticked off. He's denying the reporting and he is firing right back at Harris.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I haven't canceled. She doesn't go to any events. She's a loser. She doesn't go to any events. I've gone 48 days now without a rest and I've got that loser who doesn't have the energy of a rabbit. I'm not even tired. I'm really exhilarated. You know why? We're killing her in the polls because the American people don't want her. She didn't pass her bar exam. She's not a smart person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: She did pass her bar exam that's why she became the attorney general eventually, but you know. The day started with Trump not doing much to help his own case during a 40-minute uninterrupted interview on "Fox & Friends." And listen to how he answered a question, by the way, a question from a child about who his favorite president was when he was a kid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: So I liked Ronald Reagan. I thought he was -- look I didn't love his trade policy, I'm afraid to tell you. I've made some great trade deals for us. Great presidents, well, Lincoln was probably a great president although I've always said why wasn't that settled. You know, a guy that -- it doesn't make sense with a civil war.

BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, half the country left before he got there.

TRUMP: Yeah, but you know, I'm saying like, why wasn't that -- as an example, Ukraine would have never happened and Russia if I were president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Hold on, I'm bouncing back and forth through different areas of American history. And notice the person who leaned in to say, well, half the country left before he got there. Historical details we should probably burden ourselves with for this moment. So for all of you who are playing at home, you've got Reagan, okay, and this way. Then you've got Lincoln was good, but not good enough. And then Putin and Zelensky somewhere fit in here.

Again, the question was, who was your favorite president when you were young? And by the way, look, Trump was fully in his 30s when Reagan was president. Anyway, former President Obama gained the last word in on this topic tonight while on the stump for Harris in Arizona.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I do have to point out that along with his intentions, there is also a question of his competence. Have you seen him lately? You would be worried if your grandpa was acting like this. Tucson, we do not need to see what an older, loonier Donald Trump looks like with no guardrails.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: But back to where we began. A full day of jabs, setting up a Friday night showdown in Michigan. A state which has helped swing the last two presidential elections.

[23:05:01]

It will be crucial, of course, this time around as well. Well joining me now Republican strategist, Liam Donovan. CNN senior political commentator and former Obama administration official, Van Jones. And the host of "Life Out Loud with LZ Granderson," the podcast, LZ Granderson. He attended one of Harris' rallies in Michigan tonight. Good to see you all here.

LZ, I'll begin with you. Who was your favorite -- I'm just kidding, I wasn't asking the same question. Let me ask a different one instead. Dual appearances in Michigan as the candidates fight for every last vote. You were at the Harris event in Grand Rapids. What was the energy like in that space?

LZ GRANDERSON, OP-ED COLUMNIST, LOS ANGELES TIMES: It was very similar to when I covered her first appearance, her full day appearance anyway with Governor Walz at the airport. Very diverse, very large crowd, very energetic crowd. And when I say diverse, I'm not just speaking in terms of race. I mean generationally diverse. I mean gender representation diverse.

I'm talking about unions and non-unions, able-bodied, people in wheelchairs. I mean really a kaleidoscope of America showed up today in Grand Rapids and it just reminded me, Laura, of what I saw in Detroit, you know, when she first announced with Tim Walz.

COATES: Had you seen any lapse of enthusiasm since then? Obviously, we're talking about the Kamalamentum at that point. Was there a significant downgrade now these days before the election?

GRANDERSON: If there was it didn't make a wave in Michigan. I can tell you that. It took me hours to get out in large part because people wouldn't leave. Even after the Vice President had left, there was like a carnival sort of event at this particular campaign stop. And so there was opportunities to buy more merchandise, to fellowship.

There were a lot of buses. People bussed in from all over the state to attend this event. And there was food, free donuts, apple cider. It was true, pure Michigan moment. And so, you know, it took hours for us to leave because of that energy. So if there is a lack of energy elsewhere, I can't speak to that. But of the rallies that I've covered so far, I haven't seen it.

COATES: Now let me turn to you. Harris is speaking out about the war in Gaza and the death, of course, of the Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: I know this year has been very difficult. Given the scale of death and destruction in Gaza. Sinwar's death can and must be a turning point. Everyone must seize this opportunity to finally end the war in Gaza. Bring the hostages home and end the suffering once and for all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Van, she needs the support of Arab-Americans. Could Yahya Sinwar's death be a turning point?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It could. And look I think what you're seeing here is true world-class leadership. You have someone who was in a position. This coalition includes Muslims and Jews, includes Palestinians and Israelis. It includes people who care about peace and people who care about security. So she's managing a much bigger broader coalition, but look at how she's handling herself.

She's coming down clearly on the side of peace, clearly on the side of the hostages coming home. And she's calling on BB to use this moment, Bibi Netanyahu, to use this moment going forward. Don't forget, you've got Muslims in Michigan, but you also have Jews in Pennsylvania. The Philadelphia suburbs have Jewish voters in very large numbers.

And so she's doing a masterful job of managing a very, very difficult situation. When she says, bring the hostages home, Jewish voters should like that. When she says, end the war, Muslim voters should like that. And both those are principle positions that she's taken. And meanwhile, Donald Trump's all over the place, completely unreliable. She is showing world-class leadership on this issue.

COATES: Well, Liam, I mean, Trump is technically in the same place, of course, where Harris is, in the state of Michigan. He was in Detroit. He had a significant audio issue, though, today, which took about 18 minutes or so to resolve. Listen to what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Now what happens is I won't pay the bill for this stupid company that rented us this track. So let me know and if it goes out again, I'll sue the ass off that company.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I mean clearly you lose 18 minutes of time to talk to a crowd 18 days before an election. Forget that he spent 39 minutes dancing last time with perfect audio available. This is a pretty important moment for him though and the idea of having a disruption like this and his response, how does that play for the electorate?

[23:09:57]

LIAM DONOVAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think there's only so much that an actual rally matters. You know, we pick it apart and that kind of thing. But if you're thinking about why he's in Michigan, this is a really critical state. The math. Te 15 electoral votes that it represents. That is devastating to the electoral math for Kamala Harris, that's why she's there as well.

It's been overshadowed by the focus on Pennsylvania, which may well be the tipping point state, but Michigan's really important. And if you look at what's happening in the polls, there's been a shift of about a point and a half over the last month, most of that happened in the last weeks. The polls have been really, really good for him.

So whatever's happening on a day-to-day basis, he is gaining. And the real question is, what is going to be the -- this kind of threshold for victory. Can he get over that 48 percent, 49 percent that he's shown that he can get in 2020, but he hasn't quite got over that hump. So being out there, making sure that he can communicate with these last voters, actually keep voters away from Kennedy, because remember Kennedy's still on the ballot. This could be the place where he closes the deal and it really would be hard to come back for Harris.

COATES: You think voters would still be casting a ballot for Kennedy even though he is clearly not in the race, just as a kind of maybe a protest or not you vote?

DONOVAN: Just as stray votes, things happen. I mean, any vote that could be theoretically cleaved away from a person who would otherwise be voting for Trump would be problematic. It's why Bobby's been on the trail with him saying don't vote for me. But it's just one of those confounding factors in the same way that Kamala Harris has to contend with things like the Gaza situation, the dynamics with the Arab- American community. The Kennedy issue, I think, is one that Trump has to keep an eye on.

COATES: He says he's not exhausted, he's not even tired, but the pace of the rallies trying to make it swing in that way, this might contribute to any of that?

DONOVAN: Well, I think he's obviously pretty grouchy and you watched him on the "Fox & Friends" thing this morning.

COATES: Yeah.

DONOVAN: I think you're seeing two things happen. Number one, both campaigns understand that less is more for Donald Trump. The less he does, the better that is for Donald Trump. She's trying to needle him. She's trying to draw him out, provoke things that will cause him to do himself harm. He's his own worst enemy right now. And I think both campaigns understand that ceding the floor to Kamala Harris, the Trump campaign thinks that's good for them. The Harris campaign thinks they can close the deal that way.

COATES: LZ, speaking of his own worst enemy, I mean, Trump was back in Detroit after dissing the city during a visit earlier this month. I mean, just remind people, here's what he said then and then how you try to clean it up tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The whole country is going to be like, you want to know the truth? It'll be like Detroit. Our whole country will end up being like Detroit if she's your president. You're going to have a mess on your hands.

You know, Detroit has such great potential, but Kamala and the Democrats have been wreaking havoc on this place. This very, very -- in many respects, it's a sacred place. So many things happened in Detroit, and it's been treated so badly. And they've been talking about comebacks for so long, but we're going to bring it back better than it ever was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I mean, when he made those comments, I'll say, I have to play this because there was that video that went around too, that was voiced over, I think, by Courtney B. Vance. And he ends the video after showing all of the gains and the joys of a place like the Motor City. And here's what he had to say at the very end.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COURTNEY B. VANCE, ACTOR: What Donald Trump doesn't understand or care to learn is that when he said --

TRUMP: -- our whole country will end up being like Detroit if she is your president --

VANCE: That he should be so goddamn lucky.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I'm sorry, that -- and it was of course on the -- you know, Kamala Harris, I approve this message. Certainly she did. Was his comments now tonight enough to make amends?

GRANDERSON: Well first of all in full disclosure I'm born and raised in Detroit.

COATES: Oh there we go.

GRANDERSON: So, this is very personal to me. He's on a campaign trail with Kwame Kilpatrick, a disgraced former mayor of Detroit, whose crimes were so prolific that they were blamed for accelerating the city's pace into bankruptcy. So when Donald Trump goes on tour with Kwame Kilpatrick and trashes the city of Detroit, he's doing so with an accomplice in trashing the city of Detroit.

And he doesn't know that because he doesn't care. He doesn't care about black people in Detroit. He doesn't care about people of color in any other major city that he trashes. All he cares about is rotting up racist white people to vote for him. That's it. He doesn't ever show up with any policy. He's yet to actually point to anything of success in the urban city. All he does is use us as a prop. And so as a born and raised Detroiter, I'm just asking him to stop.

Find another city to pick on because as Courtney B. Vance says, you don't know ish about us.

COATES: Liam, the statements he made and then going back, it's not what you would write as a playbook for the average politician to try to heal that self-inflicted wound. First of all, was it a mistake the way that he came out and talked about it? And did he -- his efforts to try to fix the blame on Harris and Biden, did it go even far enough to try to placate those who would have been offended?

[23:15:00]

DONOVAN: This isn't the first time he's done this.

COATES: Right.

DONOVAN: I mean, he's gone to cities all over the country and said this. I think the interesting dynamic, and it goes to something else that he was mentioning. Most of the people he's speaking to, the audience that he's seeking to get votes from, probably agree at some level. I mean, if you think about the flight from these cities over time, the people who he's going for are probably in the collar counties, people that do think of Detroit or Philadelphia or, you know, Milwaukee as the sort of city that they don't want to live in anymore.

And whatever the underlying dynamics there, it's not necessarily a devastating message. I think he as Donald Trump, he's never going to apologize. He's never going to try to, you know, fix the issues that he was never wrong. It was always somebody else's fault. But I think is it going to be damaging? I think for the voters he's seeking to get votes from again, it's not necessarily something that's going to hurt him.

COATES: I mean, his policy or his theme has always been what, make America great again. However, I don't know, some places should be awfully offended to be used as some sort of a poster child, Van, for all that is wrong in a country, when certainly there is not only people who love their cities, they appreciate where they are, and they don't appreciate politicians coming in who give them platitudes and then don't do anything about it to help uplift.

JONES: I think what's interesting is the last two speakers basically said the same thing in a different way. He doesn't care about the people he's offending. He's trying to get the people who have a racial bias. He's trying to get the people who do have a low opinion of Detroit. He's trying to get the people who do have a low opinion of Milwaukee. He's trying to get the people who do have a low opinion of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. That's his strategy.

And that's why he talks the way that he does. That's why he acts the way that he does. And we just -- that's a very polite way. We just heard a very polite way of saying he doesn't give a dad gum about the people who live in those places and it shows. COATES: Well, we'll see how the electorate feels about that 18 days

from now. Everyone stand by. Ahead, Donald Trump trying to call in a favor with Fox News founder Rupert Murdoch. No more negative ads, he's saying.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OABAMA: Have fun! Are you fired up? Are you ready to go?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: The Democrats calling in their not-so-secret weapon. Former President Obama hitting the campaign trail in Arizona this time. His message to young men as Trump claims that manhood is under attack.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

COATES: All right, you remember these jokes from last night?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Tradition holds that I'm supposed to tell a few self- deprecating jokes this evening. So here it goes. Nope. I've got nothing.

These days it's really a pleasure anywhere in New York without a subpoena for my appearance.

I'm surprised that Bill de Blasio was actually able to make it tonight, to be honest. He was a terrible mayor. I don't give a shit if this is comedy or not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, this morning, Trump revealing maybe something he shouldn't have. Who helped write those jokes for him?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I've had a lot of people helping. A lot of people, a couple of people from Fox, actually, I shouldn't say that, but they wrote some jokes. And for the most part, I didn't like any of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, a spokesperson for Fox News says, quote, "No employee or freelancer wrote the jokes," unquote. Now, there are people familiar with the matter telling CNN's Hadas Gold, comedian Nick DePaulo, who has written jokes for Fox News host Greg Gutfeld, helped Trump with the speech. But DePaulo does not actually work for the network. I want to bring in Fox News whisperer, CNN anchor and my colleague and friend, Alisyn Camerota. She previously anchored "Fox & Friends" and spent 16 years at Fox News, and its news to her this evening that she's a Fox News whisperer. I heard the laugh, Alisyn. Well, let me ask you --

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: I've never been called that, but I assume the role.

COATES: There's a first time for everything and it's happening tonight. And I do wonder, did it surprise you to hear that Trump say that a couple people from Fox helped write some of the jokes?

CAMEROTA: Not at all. It did not surprise me at all. I know that he routinely speaks to various Fox hosts. They all -- many of them have relationships with him. And I assumed when he said that, that it was Greg Gutfeld, because Greg is their resident comedian. And so I assumed it was Greg Gutfeld or someone on his staff. Now, as you say, Laura, Fox came out and said, no, it was in fact someone who writes jokes for Greg Gutfeld, who's not employed by the network.

But it's hard to know what to believe because both Fox and Donald Trump do not have great track records with telling the truth. Fox, as you'll recall, a few months ago, had to pay $787 million because of the lies that they broadcast about the 2020 election. Donald Trump, I would say on a daily basis, makes fact-free comments. So it's hard to know who to believe.

But the point, the larger point here is that no journalist for any legitimate news channel would be able to write a speech for a political candidate. And that's why Fox had to immediately come out and deny that what Donald Trump said was true. So it's hard to know what the real truth is.

[23:25:03]

COATES: And of course, even in a comedic setting, even off of their network, it still would not be appropriate to do so, which is why they had to come out as well. You know, Trump's interview, it actually ran for 40 minutes, 40 minutes. And before running for office, he was a weekly fixture on "Fox & Friends." And I want you to talk about the relationship there. What do you remember from your time on the show about his rapport and what it was like when he would come on?

CAMEROTA: So when I was at "Fox & Friends," starting in, I think, around 2011 or 2010, they had a designated slot for Donald Trump. It was every Monday for about 15 minutes, and they used him basically as a political pundit. And it's funny, Laura, I hear people now say that it was the apprentice that allowed Donald Trump to become president and really put him on the map, made him a household name.

I personally think that it was more "Fox & Friends" because yes, the apprentice depicted him as a successful CEO, businessman, but it was "Fox & Friends" that put him in the political arena because he would come in and offer political punditry. They would ask him about, you know, President Obama's policies and he would opine on the policies. And that was to me where he found his sort of political voice.

So what happened was every time they put him on. The ratings went up. So they would book him again for the next week, and then the ratings would go up. So they developed this very mutually beneficial relationship between Fox and Donald Trump that continues to this day.

COATES: Very self-affirming in so many ways. The idea of what that would lead to for political credibility and capital later on perhaps was predictable in some respects. But you know, live TV, an almost hour-long conversation can lead to some pretty revelatory moments. Moments like, well, this one, Alisyn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm going to see Rupert Murdoch.

KILMEADE: Go ahead.

TRUMP: That's a big event. I don't know if he's (inaudible) but I'll say it.

AINSLEY EARHARDT, FOX NEWS HOST: Please tell him we all say thank you.

TRUMP: And I'm going to tell, I'm going to tell him something very simple because I can't talk to anybody else. Don't put on negative commercials for 21 days. Don't put them. And don't put on there, there are horrible people that come and lie. I'm going to say, Rupert, please do it this way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I mean, talk about blowing up someone's spot. Even if he were inclined to help Trump, and putting him on the spot like that, very counterproductive. How is Murdoch likely to respond?

CAMEROTA: In my experience, what I know of Rupert Murdoch, his guiding principle is the bottom line. So he will continue to put on Democrats' ads if they continue paying for it. So I think that, you know, Rupert Murdoch is mostly driven by the profit model. So Democrats pay for time on Fox because they want to cast a wide net and reach the Fox viewers.

And Rupert Murdoch is happy to take their money. And he's also, I believe, happy to put on Democrats who get ratings for them. So Vice President Kamala Harris just went on Fox and got two and a half to three times the ratings that Donald Trump did that in that same 24 hours. So I believe that Rupert Murdoch will continue to put on Democrats because again, the business model works and when it works, that's what I think his guiding principle is.

COATES: Gordon Gekko, greed is good. And so are you, Alisyn Camerota. Nice to see you. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks for having me, Laura.

COATES: Ahead, the true measure of a man. Donald Trump claims that manhood, manhood is under attack. But former President Obama says he's got it all wrong. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Real strength is about helping people who need it and standing up for those who can't always stand up for themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

COATES: Former President Obama campaigning tonight for Vice President Kamala Harris in Tucson, Arizona, and he's revising his pitch to young men.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I've noticed this, especially with some men who think Trump's behavior, the bullying and the putting people down and acting all, you know, pretend tough guy, that somehow that's a sign of strength. I am here to tell you that is not what real strength is. Never has been. Real strength is about working hard and carrying a heavy load without complaining.

Real strength is about taking responsibility for your actions and telling the truth even when it's inconvenient. Real strength is about helping people who need it and standing up for those who can't always stand up for themselves. That's what we should want for our daughters and our sons. That's what I want to see in the president of the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now that's a bit different than what happened last week when Obama was accused of scolding young black men for even thinking about not supporting Harris, something he was widely criticized for. But all this attention on young men, it is very significant. Currently Harris is trailing Trump among young men, and Trump is taking advantage. Today, we're turning to a familiar refrain that men are under siege. Even saying this on Fox.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TYRUS, FOX NEWS HOST: We're under attack for everything. We are.

[23:35:00]

TRUMP: Well actually, manhood --

TYRUS: Yes.

TRUMP: -- is under attack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well actually no, it's not. Let's discuss all this with Liam Donovan, Van Jones, and LZ Granderson. Van, given the view of today's pitch from Obama to mail voters, you and I talked I think a week ago today, frankly, about your views on his last speech. Does this land better for you the what you heard before?

JONES: It does to me. You know, Obama is an example of the kind of man, I don't care who you are, if your daughter brought him home, you would be proud. If that were your mentor, if that were your brother, your father, your co-worker, he is a strong, good man. A good, strong man. The idea that that's not welcome in the Democratic Party is ridiculous because there he is.

And so I do think that that's Obama at his best. When he gets that tone in his voice, it's just riveting. I also think that there's some masculinist stuff going on the Trump side that I think has been very destructive in the black community. And I think we need to get away from that type of thing.

COATES: Well, LZ, he was being expansive, of course, on this idea of masculinity. And Trump has consistently talked about masculinity being under attack, the idea of people have conflated the topic of toxic masculinity with gender identity and not bridging any gaps or appreciating any nuance between how it's articulated in any way.

James Cardwell had some thoughts, by the way, on the young men issue, telling the "New York Times" his concerns about the Democratic Party's message, saying, "A suspicion of mine is that there are too many preachy females. Don't drink beer. Don't watch football. Don't eat hamburgers. This is not good for you. The message is too feminine. Everything you're doing is destroying the planet. You've got to eat your peas." He's got a lot of blow -- he had a lot of blowbacks saying that of course, a lot of blowback is that was back I think in what, March of earlier this year. Is that a perception though that has taken hold?

GRANDERSON: Well, first and foremost, I'm not a Democrat, so I can't speak to the party. But as an observer, as someone who has covered politics for, you know, 25 years or so, I can say that what I've witnessed, Laura, has been a consistent effort on the Republican side to play up this ideology of what it means to be a man from a very physical perspective. You know, the Rambo, the Terminator, you know, that imagery, you know, all the guns, all of those things are sort of, you know, undergirding this notion that Republicans have embraced about what it means to be a man.

And at the same time, you know, you look at the Democrats and the progressive side of things, and they're really emphasizing things such as compassion, being more in tune to your humanity, you know, things such as caring about the planet. And so I can see why, you know, someone who's caught in the middle and trying to find where they may, you know, rest could be conflicting for them.

But I don't think any of this conversation should be in any way targeted towards the vice president. This is a conversation that has been happening long before she was in office. And so while I recognize the fact that, you know, we want to turn to the polls and look at where she may need to be looking for votes, I think characterizing this character -- this conversation as if she has a problem with young voters, as if the Democrats have been hemorrhaging (ph) male voters for decades, I think is mischaracterizing this conversation entirely.

COATES: You're right to think about it. I'm going to turn to you on this, Liam, because this campaign is, what, 70-something days old with her at the top of the ticket. Clearly, the conversations about masculinity have far predated that. And yet, this idea of courting younger men was on full display of the RNC. I mean, you had people like Hulk Hogan ripping off his shirt at the RNC. You had Dana White, obviously. Dana White from the -- it was with a primetime speech as well from the UFC.

You have Trump doing a whole lot of podcasts that have a demographic base that is in tune with the very young men they want to talk to. Is this an effective strategy for Trump to win, or is it just an effective strategy to have this be a part of the conversation?

DONOVAN: I'll say this, it's a logical strategy. If you think about who he has access to, who he has probably written off at this point. I think that the attitudes towards Trump with women voters, particularly college educated females, that sort of thing, that's a sunk cost. So he needs to go and make up for that somewhere. So if the logic makes sense, this is a huge audience. If you think about these podcasts, these are massive audiences on the one hand.

They're underserved markets, both from mass media and by politics and politicians. Their messages and their attitudes sort of line up with what Donald Trump is peddling, the populism, the anti-establishment notes. So that makes perfect sense.

[23:40:00]

The question is the effectiveness and that comes down to the question where they can get into (inaudible) vote. So, they're banking a lot on these infrequent voters coming out the polls. You know, this is as much about, you know, the gender element but it's a generational. The young men piece of this is really key and it transcends race as well.

When you talk of the reason that Kamala Harris, and again, talking about the podcast audience and whatnot, the reason that Kamala's going, whether it's with Charlemagne, whether it's frankly going on with "Call Her Daddy." These are Balkanized audiences in lots of different places, young voters in general, are getting their media and getting their information from other places.

So you need to go to where they are. In this case, Donald Trump needs to get them to turn out. And that's the open question that we don't know until election day.

COATES: That's a good point to think about how to make up for whatever perceived deficit you have. Are you writing off that you're not going to get this group, so you're going to bulk up this one? And will they actually turn out? I mean, then, former President Barack Obama is about to cross this country for Harris.

Next weekend, former Michelle Obama, former First Lady Michelle Obama will join her. Why these many appearances, though, just 18 days before the election? Is it too late, or is this right on time?

JONES: No, it's right on time. Look, these are nuclear weapons. And when you're talking about Michelle Obama, I mean, if you had a hard time getting in and out of the rally today, wait till Michelle Obama steps onto the stage. Wait till she steps onto the playing field. I mean, so you don't want to use all your best stuff early. You got a lot of people who are going to want to have a sense of momentum. They're going to want to have a sense that they're joining something right here at the end.

So I think I don't -- I don't think that you wanted to have Michelle Obama out there every day, I think you want to bring her in for the close. She is the closer. Don't forget, even during the 2008 campaign, everybody called her the closer. Obama would come in, he'd say his stuff, then they'd bring Michelle in and she'd say, look, you all need to vote. You need to do -- and then, yes ma'am.

And so I'm excited. I don't think it's too late at all. I'm looking forward to seeing what she does. It will be wall to wall coverage. When Michelle Obama steps onto the stage, it will be wall to wall coverage.

COATES: Well, 18 days to go. That's going to fly by, frankly. Everyone, thank you so much. Nice to see you all.

Ahead, which political party lies the most? Who's the worst liar in American politics? Well, the creator of PolitiFact joins me to answer those questions and more. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:45:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID MUIR, ABC NEWS HOST: Are you now acknowledging that you lost in 2020?

TRUMP: No, I don't acknowledge it at all.

MUIR: But you did say that.

TRUMP: I said that sarcastically.

J.D. VANCE, REPUBLICAN VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, did Donald Trump lose the election not by the words that I would use, okay.

TRUMP: I want to talk about IVF. I'm the father -- I'm the father --

HARRIS FAULKNER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: You don't hear that every day.

TRUMP: I'm the father of IVF.

VANCE: He was president for four years and he didn't go after his political opponent.

TRUMP: In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats.

And eating other things too that they're not supposed to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: For everything you just heard there is 100 percent false. And those lies are coming from the top of the Republican party, all within just the past couple of weeks. But how do they get away with it? Especially considering there are more fact checkers now than ever before. And in 2022, there were 424 fact checking websites. That's up from only 11 in 2008, according to Duke University.

Yet still, why does it seem like sifting through the lies in today's politics is more difficult than ever before. And moreover, why does it feel like more people are actually believing the lies and doubling down when they do? I want to bring in Bill Adair. He is the creator of PolitiFact and the author of the brand new book, "Beyond the Big Lie." And he is joining me in studio. Bill, good to see you.

BILL ADAIR, AUTHOR, BEYOND THE BIG LIE: Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.

COATES: I got to tell you, I mean, you came up at a time in terms of PolitiFact of trying to combat the misinformation, back then we called it lies. Now it's misinformation. And in this -- in the 2008 era in particular, that was when it started to gain a bit of a stronghold. But now it's more than ever before in spite of all of the fact checking. Why?

ADAIR: Well, it does -- it seems like 2008 was an innocent age, doesn't it?

COATES: It does, yes.

ADAIR: And here we are with this avalanche of lies. And it's really worrisome. You know, a few things have changed. I think one thing that affects all of -- all of, particularly conservative politicians, is an ecosystem in the media that is frictionless. They can lie and not have any --

COATES: Consequences loom.

ADAIR: -- anyone challenge them. There are no consequences and so -- and not only that, but often some of the companies will need to echo those lies because that affects their bottom line and we saw that in the Dominion case against Fox that Fox lost viewers when it didn't go along with the big lie about the 2020 election. So that's one thing that's changed.

And the other thing of course is Donald Trump. Donald Trump is not just the leader of the Republican Party, but he's a role model for so many Republican politicians who just follow what he says, will echo what he says, without any regard for whether it's true.

COATES: I found it really interesting. You talk about writing this new book, in part to correct a lie of your own, you say. [23:49:55]

ADAIR: So I was on C-SPAN, and a caller called in on the Democratic line and said, have heard the Democrat that Republicans lie more is that true? And I said we don't keep score and that was actually the lie because I knew at the time even then in 2012 that there was a tremendous disparity and that there were more lies on the Republican side. And so one of the reasons I wrote the book as you indicated is I felt like we need to have a discussion about that.

COATES: But why do you think that is? Obviously, there must be either some strategy or gain from doing so.

ADAIR: When I talked to people, former Republicans, political operatives, members of Congress, the answer was pretty consistent. One was that the culture of the party endorses lying as a way of sort of getting whatever you're trying to achieve and they trace that back to Newt Gingrich and they said things really changed when Newt Gingrich took the House in the early 1990's and that changed the culture of the Republican Party.

COATES: But they would push back instantly and say no we don't have a culture of lying. We're not being told to lie that -- we're -- you just have a different take on the views. It's our overwhelming political war shack test.

ADAIR: Sure and I've been, you know -- I've heard complaints that fact checkers are biased ever since I started PolitiFact in 2007. And I think that's understandable. I'm a sports fan. I'm a Duke basketball fan and I know that the referees in the Atlantic Coast Conference are biased against Duke, that they only call fouls against Duke and not against the University of North Carolina. So, you know --

COATES: I want to laugh and get everyone who's watching is like, what?

ADAIR: Right.

COATES: What? It's exactly the opposite, but I'll take you at your word.

ADAIR: Yeah. And I understand, so you know, obviously that's ridiculous and I understand though by saying something like that, there is passion for your team.

COATES: Last question for you. I guess that's, who is the worst liar? No, I know you're not biased here, but who is the worst liar and why? I guess by the worst maybe it's the most effective one.

ADAIR: Well, I think no one comes close to Donald Trump. And, you know, and the "Washington Post" fact checker Glenn Kessler has provided a great service by tracking his lies over the years. And it's -- there's just no one else that lies at the volume that he does.

COATES: Really, really fascinating so much. Bill Adair, thank you so much. The book again is called "Beyond the Big Lie." Well, we already told you a little bit about Trump's rambling "Fox &

Friends" appearance, but we saved the best for last.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I love cows. But if we go with Kamala, you won't have any cows anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: How do you spell cows? How do you spell it? W-W-W-S? We're coming -- well, they're coming on for cows. That's the thing that Trump is telling people. We'll explain how Trump developed his latest tall tale next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:55:00]

COATES: Well, Donald Trump has a new talking point on the campaign trail. Kamala Harris is coming for your cows.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Mr. President, my name is Briar. I'm six years old. I live on a farm in Massachusetts. What's your favorite farm animal?

KILMEADE: Favorite farm animal?

UNKNOWN: What's the animal?

KILMEADE: Well, this guy grew up in the city.

TRUMP: I'll tell you what I love. I love cows. But if we go with Kamala, you won't have any cows anymore because you're not allowed and I don't want to ruin this kid's day. I love cows. I think they're so cute and so beautiful and so -- but according to Kamala, who's a radical left lunatic, you will not have any cows anymore. So we have to vote her out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well that's probably not the six-year-old's answer that he was expecting, huh? It's also not the first time Trump has warned about the impending alleged cow-mageddon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They want to do things like no more cows and no windows in buildings.

She wants the government to stop people from eating red meat. She wants to get rid of your cows. No more cows.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: So where -- where did he get this idea? Well, Trump claims it's in the Green New Deal from progressive Democrats. But the policy proposal only advocated for working collaboratively with farmers to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, like the methane that cows release, not getting rid of cows completely. In fact, Harris never suggested it. Her response tonight? Just a bunch of question marks. And then what she told CNN a few years ago, it doesn't sound like she's banning cows anytime soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: And just to be very honest with you, I love cheeseburgers from time to time. Right, I mean, I just do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: So those cute cows that Trump loves to talk about so much will likely be safe, regardless of who wins in just 18 days. Thank you for watching. And one note before we go, you can catch a brand new episode of "How I Got News for You" with host Roy Wood, Jr. and team captains Amber Ruffin and Michael Ian Black tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

[23:29:58]

Guests this week include comedian Alex Edelman and political commentator Sam Seder. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next with more.