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Laura Coates Live
Harris and Trump Embark on Battleground Blitz; Musk Offers Voters $1 Million a Day to Sign PAC Petition Backing the Constitution; Central Park Five Sues Trump; Trump Mans Fry Station at McDonald's. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired October 21, 2024 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
MARIA SHRIVER, FORMER FIRST LADY OF CALIFORNIA: I have to turn off the news. I can't read anything. I'm meditating, I'm doing yoga, I'm doing -- I'm so anxious --
(LAUGHTER)
-- I just don't even know I'm eating gummies, all kinds of things, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
What are you doing? What are you doing?
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Eating gummies.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: No gummies for her, but the vice president said that instead, she works out and talks to her family every day, which I guess we all could use a little bit of.
Thank you for watching "NewsNight: State of the Race." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, down to the wire as Kamala Harris and Donald Trump continue a battleground blitz. New polling shows a toss-up in just about every swing state. You've got 15 days to go, mind you. Plus, testing the limits. A million- dollar giveaway has experts questioning whether Elon Musk's MAGA stunt actually violates election law. And a reckless disregard for the truth. How the Central Park Five are trying to make Trump pay for comments he made in the last presidential debate.
It has been no secret for months, and actually make it years at this point, that the race for the White House would come down to these seven states. If you thought you would have a little bit of clarity on who's got the edge just a few weeks away, sorry, not going to happen tonight. A new Washington Post poll shows no clear leader in all seven of these states. In fact, six are within three points. Harris holding a robust four-point advantage in Georgia.
So, it all comes down to these next just two weeks for both candidates to try, try to close the deal. And naturally, Harris and Trump, they obviously know that, racking up frequent flyer miles, dotting those battleground states with campaign rallies. You got Trump in North Carolina, Harris in Pennsylvania, also Michigan and Wisconsin. Harris's strategy, enlisting Liz Cheney to convince Republicans and those who might be undecided to cast a ballot for her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ CHENEY, FORMER WYOMING REPRESENTATIVE: I think there are many of us around the country who have been pro-life, but who have watched what's going on in our states since the Dobbs decision and have watched state legislatures put in place laws that are resulting in women not getting the care they need. That's not sustainable for us as a country.
If you're at all concerned, you can vote your conscience and not ever have to say a word to anybody, and there will be millions of Republicans who do that on November 5th.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Hmm. As for Trump's closing argument, well, he's continuing a -- let's call it a string of bizarre and conspiratorial claims, even tonight, including the weekend's eyebrow-raising anecdote about a famous golfer's -- well, just watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But Arnold Palmer was all man. And I say that in all due respect to women, and I love women. When he took showers with the other pros, they came out of there, they said, "Oh, my God --
(LAUGHTER)
-- that's unbelievable."
They said millions and millions of ballots out. They don't know what the hell is happening. You ever hear the expression that the vote counter is far more important than the candidate? And unfortunately, we can't let that happen.
But look, a lot of the money is gone. They don't have any money. They have to have -- they have to have a meeting in Washington, a special meeting in Washington to get money. It's all gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: So, to be clear, nothing you just heard was actually based in fact. Well, I'm not sure about the Arnold Palmer part because for my purposes, it's half lemonade and half iced tea. That's all I want to know. Harris, though, she's got an opinion on what he's actually saying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: There are things that he says that will be the subject of skits and laughter and jokes. But words have meaning. Coming from someone who aspires to stand behind the seal of the president of the United States. These are the things that are at stake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: How will this all play into the estate, the swing states, one way or another? Well, your guess is as good as any pollster, let alone mine. Well, joining me now, an extraordinary pollster, Frank Luntz. Frank, so good to see you. We are 15 days away. You and I have been counting down the days for quite some time. But I got to start with who she is campaigning with, former Congresswoman Liz Cheney.
[23:05:00]
And I just have to wonder, how do you think that's playing with the independents, with the moderate Republicans, and the truly undecided or persuadables?
FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER AND COMMUNICATIONS STRATEGIST: It's so hard right now to move people.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
LUNTZ: Almost everyone has made up their minds. And those who haven't, if you're truly undecided, you're probably not going to vote.
COATES: Hmm.
LUNTZ: You probably dislike both candidates. You have an issue with Trump's attitude, with what he says, how he communicates, and who he is as a person. You have an issue with Kamala Harris in how she answers questions and whether she deals with specifics. And you're basically deciding at this point, I don't like either of them, so I don't want to vote. So, the people I'm focused on are the weak supporters. And it only represents 4 or 4% of the country, 3 or 4% of those swing states.
COATES: That could be enough, though, in those swing states.
LUNTZ: It is enough. It absolutely is enough. It's union members in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan. It's young African-American men in Georgia and North Carolina. It's the Latino vote in Arizona and Nevada. Very specific.
And the other question is, will young women who love Kamala Harris, will they actually go out and vote? In past elections, they've shown an interest, and they're definitely more Democratic than any age gender group there are. But they don't participate.
COATES: Hmm.
LUNTZ: I think they're going to vote in record numbers. I think that they're going to be a larger slice of the electorate than any time you've seen, and that's the balance. So, I can't call it -- union members rank and file are more likely to be with Trump than any Republican in modern times. Same thing with Latino voters and same thing with young African-American men. But the balance is those young women who can't wait to participate. So, what I'm waiting to see is whether Taylor Swift --
COATES: Uh.
LUNTZ: I'm serious, whether she comes out and does a concert. I think that is a big deal. I think she is as popular today as Oprah Winfrey was when she endorsed Barack Obama. And Oprah's support, active support, made a difference in his race, took votes away from Hillary Clinton, gave them to Obama. Taylor Swift could make a difference in this race.
COATES: So, do you stand by your earlier prediction that you think Harris could still win?
LUNTZ: The issue, which I'm having to come face to face with, was Donald Trump's debate performance was awful. I'll argue this till the end of time, that what he did on that debate stage was an embarrassment. And Donald Trump can absolutely positively win this race. I think it's a dead heat. And if Trump does win, it will show that debates don't matter. It will show that comments and precision in communicating doesn't matter.
Harris was correct when she said that words matter. And for her, she has to finish, she has to close the deal, and she hasn't.
What I don't understand, as a way to wrap this, is that Trump has been very similar in his approach, only more of it, only more extreme pushing the boundaries of communication. He's finished. He has gotten the votes he's going to get, and it may be enough.
For her, there are still a few people that she can close the deal on. She's not going to close it by beating up on him. We already know where he stands. She's going to close it by focusing and saying to people, I'm not the same person I was, I've learned something over the last five years, I am -- you can trust me, you can have confidence in me and here's why, and this is exactly what I will do on day one, day 100, and day 1,000. She actually hasn't done that, and that's what's hurting her in closing the deal.
COATES: Well, you look at what Trump has been saying about these issues and what promises he is making and beyond. But I still go back to your original point, Frank. I thought, as many people did, that the idea of it was a three-parties. It was Democrats, Republicans, and the couch. That had gone away. Now, you're telling me that the couch might still be an attractive option for those who are truly undecided. We'll see what happens. LUNTZ: And they may vote. But they could spoil their balance, vote for a third-party candidate, vote for a write-in. Those votes absolutely matter.
COATES: Frank Luntz, thank you so much. Really important.
LUNTZ: Thank you.
COATES: I want to bring in co-chair of the Harris-Walz campaign and former Democratic congressman, Cedric Richmond. So good to see you this evening, congressman. Look, Harris is keeping her focus on some of those very important swing states, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin today alone, and where polls are showing that the race is, frankly, a kind of a toss-up when you look at all that's going on or within the margin of error as well. Can Harris win without the blue wall? Yes or no?
CEDRIC RICHMOND, CO-CHAIR OF HARRIS-WALZ CAMPAIGN, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: She does have more than one path to victory. But we're fighting for the blue wall. We want to win the blue wall.
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In fact, we could win most of the toss-up states. But it's going to take hard work, it's going to take communicating, it's going to take her doing exactly what she's doing now, and that is barnstorming those swing states and talking to every voter to earn their vote.
COATES: You know, Harris has enlisted Liz Cheney, a former congresswoman. And one Metro Detroit area mayor, who endorsed Trump last month, by the way, told reporters this about that. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR AMER GHALIB, HAMTRAMCK, MICHIGAN: It was surprising for us as Arab- Americans to have Kamala Harris bringing someone whose family name always reminds us of, you know, war crimes in the Middle East.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Well, this is one person's perspective. Do you think that it's shared by others or that Cheney's presence could actually hurt Harris with uncommitted voters in places like Michigan?
RICHMOND: Liz Cheney said on the January 6 Committee and perform a remarkable job in terms of shedding light and transparency on the insurrection that was led by Donald Trump. And for that, I think that the country respects her for that. And so, what we can bring her and articulate to Republican voters, that there is a lane for them, that there's a place for them in the Harris-Walz administration. I think that it's important.
If you look at how many people voted for Nikki Haley, even after she was out the contest, then that shows you the margin, the number and the possibility of people that could support Kamala Harris. And so, you have to go out and you have to try to earn those votes. And right now, Liz Cheney and among almost a hundred other former elected Republicans are supporting Kamala Harris, and it's important to show people that.
COATES: Well, there has been suddenly a wide spectrum of Republicans who have been expressing support. I do wonder how the voters will gauge and prioritize January 6 Committee and other aspects of her policy, distinctions from Democrats more broadly, let alone Harris.
But on the issue of support, congressman, Harris's support among Black voters is lower than previously elected Democratic presidents. Every year is a new opportunity. Of course, every election quite distinct, let alone this one. But when we spoke last week, you said, we have some work to do. Also, you weren't conceding (ph) any votes to Trump or anything like that. And she has spoken recently about needing to earn every single vote.
But given the past numbers and the clock ticking, can you close the gap by Election Day?
RICHMOND: Yes. That's the short answer and that's what I believe. And you -- I was with her on Sunday, her 60th birthday. We went to two churches in Georgia. And the excitement is there. And I think that you'll see it continue to bubble up until Election Day.
And so, like any great prize fighter, you don't want to peak before the fight, you want to peak on fight night. And we're going to continue to urge people to vote early, to fill out their write-in ballots. But remember, Election Day is fight night. And we're going to continue to push. We are going to fight through the tape and run through the tape. So, we're not going to concede anyone, anywhere, and we're going to continue to try to earn every vote we can.
COATES: Do you have a sense of when that tape is going to run? Obviously, election night is 15 days away, but it's expected that we might have to go beyond that to actually call it. Is the campaign prepared for a possibility that it's not going to be called on Tuesday, maybe even Wednesday? According to Secretary of State of Michigan, Jocelyn Benson, with her own numbers, maybe Wednesday night.
RICHMOND: We are prepared for that. And it's not -- unlike last time with so many mail-in ballots, we will predict that would or could possibly happen this time. But the one thing we do know is that the polls close on election night. And we're going to fight, we're going to push, and we're going to encourage people to vote up until those polls closed.
COATES: Cedric Richmond, thank you so much for joining. We will see about that tape. Thank you so much.
RICHMOND: Thanks for having me.
COATES: Ahead, Elon Musk's million-dollar election gamble. The billionaire planning to hand out seven-figure checks to Trump supporters every single day until the election. But is it even legal? And Arnold Palmer's daughter speaking to CNN tonight about Trump's, well, interesting description of her father. I'll tell you about that next.
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TRUMP: When he took showers with the other pros, they came out of there, they said, "Oh, my God --
(APPLAUSE)
-- that's unbelievable.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: You have to choose people who have character, choose people of good faith. Donald Trump has proven he's not one of those people by his actions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Liz Cheney making the case against Trump today while touring blue wall states alongside, you guessed it, Vice President Kamala Harris. And despite Trump crisscrossing North Carolina, what everyone cannot stop talking about is this moment from the weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But Arnold Palmer was all man. When I say that, in all due respect to women, and I love women, but this guy, this guy, this is a guy that was all man. This man was strong and tough, and I refuse to say it, but when he took showers with the other pros, they came out of there, they said, "Oh, my God, that's unbelievable."
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: I feel like I would have led with golf. But, you know, Arnold Palmer's daughter also is speaking out tonight on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEG PALMER WEARS, DAUGHTER OF GOLFER ARNOLD PALMER: He can say it is locker room talk. It's something that he seems to think is acceptable.
[23:20:02]
In my father's world, it wouldn't be acceptable. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: I can't believe that his daughter actually had to address this particular point. I mean, just think about that for a second. His daughter addressing a point, a lewd or crude comment by a former president on a campaign trail. Just think about that for a second.
Joining us now, right now, we've got Lulu Garcia-Navarro, a contributor for CNN, Democratic strategist Chuck Rocha, also an advisor to the Trump campaign, we've got Bryan Lanza here as well.
Lulu, let me begin with you here because -- I mean, look, hardly anything surprises me any longer. And I bet for many voters, hardly anything surprised them about what Donald Trump has to say. But is this the kind of thing right now that you think voters are even contemplating or considering, or are they being a little bit alienated by this?
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, JOURNALIST FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES, PODCAST HOST: I mean, I love women. I mean --
(LAUGHTER)
-- is that really something that you're going to in that kind of tone, which I think would make any woman just shudder, if you have a problem with female voters? I mean, one would think no, but really Donald Trump has a problem controlling himself, he has a problem staying on message. And more than that, he rambles. And he has a problem with focus, and he has a problem with his mental state. And so, we've seen this over and over again, and this is another symptom of that.
I mean, taking away the crudity of it, the fact is that if he was someone who actually wanted to win this race, as he says he does, would he actually be making this pitch? I don't think so. It says to me that he might not be in control of the things that he's saying.
COATES: Bryan, I get that he wants to be entertaining. He's known as an entertainer. But if you've got two hours to spend, 15 days before an election, why are you using up any air time in front of voters who you could potentially convince to vote for you, that you might need in the end? Why spend time this way?
BRYAN LANZA, FORMER DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR TRUMP 2016 CAMPAIGN, SENIOR ADVISER FOR TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: I think sometimes, he wants to add levity to a two-hour speech, and he goes off message or he goes on what he wants to say, and you'll have those comments.
But let me point out, you had President Barack Obama on national television during the DNC debate sort of do his hands, talking about Trump's crowd size, sort of referencing his own -- you know, your penis joke.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: But the difference is -- but isn't the difference --
LANZA: It's not a difference, it's the same thing. GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, but let me just say, one of these two former presidents has been credibly accused of sexual assault and been convicted of sexual assault and one has not. When one makes that kind of joke and talks about women in that way, people hear it in a different way because of the history, because of the fact that he made comments that were broadcast about grabbing women by their genitals. I mean, this is not a man who is making jokes in a vacuum, this is a man who has a history.
LANZA: Yeah, and people have voted on that history. They heard the genital conversation back in 2016, and then 17 days later, they casted their vote for President Trump because they felt that those things were not credible.
The reason we're tied in these debates, because the attacks have not worked in the last four -- in the last four months or six months since Harris has been running, and they've been focused on the economy and on immigration. Those are the things that people are talking about. I get that we're going to have at least probably, you know, a hundred more --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: But do you think it's appropriate?
LANZA: -- a hundred more (INAUDIBLE).
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Do you think it's appropriate?
LANZA: Listen, what I think is appropriate is delivering a positive message to the American people of economics and of a country that's going to be great again. And I compare that to what Kamala Harris is doing. I'm very comfortable with President Trump's platform going forward.
COATES: Let me say two things. One, lawyer in me is like, well, he is found liable of the sexual --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Liable.
COATES: Number one. But the other part is, just later -- earlier tonight, he was actually making the case in front of the Evangelicals about he being the person that could save this country, and he was leaning into what he perceived as the audience's desire to hear him talk about religion more fervently and the role he might play. So, it is in contrast to what he is saying earlier, the moments of levity that he believes he's trying to have.
Is it just a sort of messaging chameleon? Because if that's the case, isn't that what people accuse Kamala of, of being sort of flip- flopping or strategic?
CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR FOR BERNIE SANDERS'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS: I was watching earlier when you and Frank were talking, and I think you made a point that kind of stuck with me. It's what I see every day in polling. I think everything that has been said here, even things that has been said about all the general talk, is all right on both cases. Both of you all, right? Like that if you got off message, you are off message. Is it unacceptable to say certain things? Absolutely, in my opinion.
But the voters today, some of this is baked in, but then some of it is not. And when Frank said that if you're not voting for Donald Trump, you're voting for him, he does not have very much higher to grow. But Kamala Harris does have a window where she can raise her numbers, especially with Nikki Haley, primary voters or moderate Republicans or Republicans that I'm most scared of going to vote. These people vote like it's their job.
[23:25:00]
COATES: Hmm.
ROCHA: They're not like a lot of other people. They're some of the most reliable voters. I worry about them skipping the part of the ticket. What you all just were debating is going to cause people to skip or not to skip, said, I've had enough, I'll go ahead and vote for her. That's that little sliver of undecided folks who make a big difference in this election.
COATES: Well, on that point, Nikki Haley, I mean, Trump says that he thinks Haley is going to join him in the final stretch on the campaign trail. Is that true? Do you know if she's going do that?
LANZA: I think they're still in conversation. I have been told, whether it's final or not, but they're certainly having a conversation about --
COATES: How will that play between Hailey for Trump and Cheney with Harris? Does that make a big difference in the voters who are looking for a mission structure?
LANZA: No. Listen, I don't think voters are looking for the permission structure. If you look what the data shows today, if you look what the data showed in 2016, if you look what the data showed in 2020, you know, all these Republicans, they always came back at the end. Right now, Donald Trump is getting 92% of the republican vote. That's actually higher than it was in 2016.
So, we can have these narratives that Liz Cheney may play a role. We can have these narratives that Nikki can play a role. But the reality is that Trump is getting the largest share of the republican vote that he has ever received, and that's a direct result of his policies that he wants to implement, but also running against Harris, which has unified the Republican Party.
COATES: What about this comment? Do we have the clip of what Cheney had to say about abortion tonight? I want to play that. I'm going to read it for you, guys, here instead. So, she said that Republicans today could -- quote -- "vote their conscience and not ever have to say a word to anybody." Then she talked about the Dobbs decision, Lulu, and said, women not getting the care they need, it has to change.
That's pretty significant to hear from Cheney, number one, but also 15 days before the election, knowing that abortion -- that Roe v. Wade has been overturned. It is not in bold print, it's invisible across every ballot in this country.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, again, this is a gender election. Women are going to be decisive. You heard that from Frank Luntz. You know, every single poll shows this. I was just looking at a poll that's going out tomorrow that talked about how Donald Trump is viewed versus Kamala Harris. She's viewed as more honest. She's viewed as more credible.
COATES: Hmm.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: You know, these are issues that actually matter to female voters. The Trump campaign has really doubled down on male voters. That is a strategy. I think, for example, these Arnold Palmer comments might play into a certain demographic within the male voting community.
And so, this is the tussle, and I don't know exactly how it's all going to play out. But I do think that for women, the issue of reproductive rights is absolutely crucial. I heard this from my Republican-leaning younger family members, that they will vote on that issue. It is an important issue for them.
ROCHA: There's something really important about what you're saying, Lulu, and it's that these women, especially these married women who live in the suburbs, again, they just vote at higher levels. You're going to hear everybody talk about maybe -- you said it earlier, you're losing Black men by a little bit less than what you won them by last time. You're losing Latino men by a little bit less. And that is a truth.
We have time to get those back. I think those numbers will come back at some level. But that don't make up for so many white women that are just pissed that vote -- like it's their job, and I think that's the difference in this election. She's overperforming with the people she needs to be overperforming with -- who just voted a higher rate. There's still a lot of unknowns and a lot of undetermined but, you know, I think that's a big deal.
COATES: Fifteen days to go until we know that we got one day left to know, maybe two. Everyone, thank you so much.
Ahead, I think we all know when something sounds, well, too good to be true, don't we?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA MOTORS: You're just signing something you already believe, and you can win a million dollars. That's awesome.
(APPLAUSE)
COATES: Well, Elon Musk's million-dollar MAGA sweepstakes doesn't only seem suspect, it might just be illegal. We'll dig into how the world's richest man is using his money to influence the election, and maybe everything isn't awesome, next.
(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSK: Tonight's person is John Dreher (ph).
(APPLAUSE)
(LAUGHTER)
By the way, John had no idea.
(LAUGHTER)
So, anyway, you're welcome, and --
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Wow! What you just saw was Elon Musk's latest move to support Donald Trump. It's a daily million-dollar giveaway for whoever signs a petition in support of the first and second amendments. Easy enough, right?
Well, look, there are some caveats there. To win the money, you have to live in a swing state. You also have to be a registered voter. But here's the thing. This actually might be illegal, people. I mean, prominent legal scholar Rick Hasen, who says that Musk is engaged in -- quote -- "illegal vote buying," certainly thinks so. It has also caught the attention of Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): I think there are real questions with how he is spending money in this race, how the dark money is flowing not just into Pennsylvania but, apparently, now into the pockets of Pennsylvanians. I think it's something that law enforcement can take a look at. I'm not the attorney general anymore of Pennsylvania, I'm the governor, but it does raise some serious questions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: So, here's a question: What does election law actually say? Well, it's illegal for someone who -- quote -- "pays or offers to pay or accepts payment either for registration to vote or for voting." And tonight, a group of Republican former lawmakers and DOJ officials and advisors are also calling on A.G. Garland to investigate this.
I want to get right to Teddy Schleifer. He's a reporter for "The New York Times." Teddy, good evening. Look, you write about Musk's giveaways for the Times. What are the experts telling you about whether this is illegal or not?
[23:35:00]
THEODORE SCHLEIFER, REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: So, it really comes down to what exactly people are getting if you sign this petition. To hear the Musk camp describe it, you know, this is not a payment to register to vote, it is a payment to say that you are a supporter of the first and second amendments. Who isn't? You know, and you're basically entering a lottery, saying you can win up to a million dollars, maybe you'll win, maybe you won't.
To hear people like Rick Hasen describe it, this is a bribe, essentially, to register to vote. And it really comes down to what exactly means to be eligible for this gift because there are some things that are paid out to voters that are not illegal such as like, you know, people can offer rides to the polls or you can get paid leave to vote. Those things are not illegal. Those are pretty common.
COATES: Well, it goes up to the line for so many people, right? The idea of, are you asking them or giving them an incentive to register to vote or actually vote or signing a petition? That's kind of the legal murky area that everyone is trying to wrap their mind around.
Thinking back to the Ben & Jerry case, right? When they were offering, well, I think a free pint of ice cream where people -- if you voted and came to their stores. They had to change it later on to say, okay, everyone gets a free cone that day and said. That's how close the line people think about this.
But this is a million bucks we're talking about. And you report already that Musk's companies are under 20 different federal investigations which, if this adds another layer, could be significant, of course. But is that part of why Musk is going all in for Trump?
SCHLEIFER: Well, look, I mean, clearly, this is the world's richest person who is not solely doing this because he agrees with everything that he thinks Trump says, although, you know, he says he does. It's impossible to disentangle his involvement in the race from his business interests. I mean, this is a guy who runs, you know, it seems like 25 different companies, not really, but if you can feel that way.
And he has business interests which are certainly worth scrutiny. You know, regardless of whether or not it is why Trump -- why Elon Musk is doing this. You know, Elon has talked about being in a government kind of advisory role, the head of a government waste commission. So, you can't disentangle that from his business interests.
COATES: I mean, I guess it's a little bit of scratch to your back. I'll scratch my -- wait, he scratches my back, I'll scratch yours. That's the phrase. But it's also not just Musk, by the way.
SCHLEIFER: Yeah.
COATES: There are a number of tech billionaires who are also using their platforms and their wallets, by the way, to help Trump. So, what do they want?
SCHLEIFER: Well, look, there's kind of been a reaction in Silicon Valley to the liberalism that has defined the industry since the Obama era. You know, that was the age of immigration reform and climate change and open trade. And that kind of point of view has fallen out of favor in Silicon Valley. Now, you sort of have this reaction that has ascended, and Elon Musk is sort of the tip of the spear there.
COATES: So, in terms of the platform, I mean, compared to other, you know, billionaires who may have a very vested interest or even Silicon Valley, how powerful is Musk's --
SCHLEIFER: Yeah.
COATES: -- megaphone? I mean, Harris has record number fundraising numbers, right? But then Musk, he still has X.
SCHLEIFER: Yeah. Look, Elon Musk has 200 million followers. And we forget, this is not just the guy who's putting a ton of money in to support Donald Trump. Every single day, every single hour, every single minute, it feels like, he is out there, you know, kind of pushing a pretty anti-Harris message.
And, you know, a lot of the campaign is being fought right now over young men in particular. This is a group that idolizes Elon Musk. They're following his every tweet. And, you know, he is a celebrity. He's one of the few people who could headline his own events and people actually show up.
COATES: We talked about this before when he was in Pennsylvania. I mean, kind of a rock star status. Whether it will translate people actually voting, a very different thing.
SCHLEIFER: Yeah.
COATES: Teddy Schleifer, thank you so much.
SCHLEIFER: You bet.
COATES: Well, the men once known as the Central Park Five are now the Exonerated Five. But Donald Trump still says they're guilty. Well, now, the men are ready to stop Trump from spreading this lie. More on that, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: For 35 years, Trump has believed the Central Park Five, now called the Exonerated Five, are guilty of assault and rape, even though their names were totally cleared.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: They admitted, they said, they pled guilty. And I said, well, if they pled guilty, they badly hurt a person, killed a person ultimately. And if they pled guilty, then they pled, we're not guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Remember that moment in the debate against Kamala Harris last month? Well, he's now being sued by the Exonerated Five. And they say his -- quote -- "false and defamatory comments during the debate" are "extreme and outrageous." Their convictions were tossed in 2002, and New York City paid them $41 million over their wrongful conviction. The men never pleaded guilty. The victim survived, and another man ultimately admitted to the 1989 rape and was convicted.
But Trump has never believed the Exonerated Five were innocent. He has used their case to advocate to bring back the death penalty in New York State. And today, Trump's campaign called the lawsuit -- quote -- "another frivolous election interference lawsuit to distract from the voters for the Harris campaign."
With me now, Shanin Specter, lead counsel for the Exonerated Five in their lawsuit against Donald Trump. Shanin, thank you for joining us this evening. You know, this case and what happened to those five haunts the nation, dare I say the globe. And Trump, he has repeated these accusations for literally for decades, even though they were completely exonerated.
[23:45:02]
And your clients are going to get justice, you say, this time. What does that look like for them?
SHANIN SPECTER, LEAD COUNSEL FOR CENTRAL PARK EXONERATED FIVE IN TRUMP DEFAMATION CASE: Well, Laura, we want a trial. Uh, they have to clear their names now all over again because in front of 67 million Americans on September 10th in that debate, Mr. Trump said that, uh, they had killed this woman, uh, and that they had pled guilty, and both of those things are not true.
So, now, we have to clear their names all over again in a courtroom, in a trial, where we're going to be seeking damages to both compensate these five men and to punish Mr. Trump.
COATES: Defamation cases can be difficult if it's a public figure particularly that has shown actual malice standard, that they actually meant to do and say something that was incorrect and not truthful and would lower their perception or reputation in the community.
He's well aware of defamation cases. He lost a suit this year brought by E. Jean Carroll and was ordered to pay $83 million. Is that case a kind of roadmap for your clients?
SPECTER: Well, every defamation case is different on the facts. But in terms of the law to be applied, it is the same law. And Mr. Trump has only a passing acquaintance with the truth, unfortunately. And that is on display in this situation. He has been after these five men for the last 35 years.
And it is known for more than 20 years that they were absolutely not guilty because the guilty person confessed. His DNA was matched to the victim, he was tried, he was convicted, he was imprisoned. The D.A. of Manhattan filed papers to have these men's convictions vacated. The judge signed the order.
So, there's no doubt that they are not guilty. Everyone knows they're not guilty, who has studied the matter. But Mr. Trump persists in this alternate reality, which he would prefer, which is that they be guilty in his mind and that he communicates that in this debate to the entire nation.
COATES: I mean, it's so well known that they are exonerated and did not commit the crimes. It's actually called or often referred to as Exonerated Five. I mean, the idea that they are having to go through this again as adults, which is quite different, but still knowing that they did not commit these crimes, and certainly, that is almost universally known. I wonder what you make of Trump's response to the lawsuit, through his campaign, accusing your clients of, get this, election interference. What's your reaction to that?
SPECTER: Yeah. Well, I think it's unfortunate that Mr. Trump had his campaign respond to this matter. It's a lawsuit, and he ought to have his lawyer respond and his lawyer should say whether it's true or whether it's false. And this is not an issue about politics. It's not an issue about the campaign. It's an issue about these allegations that he defamed these five men. And he's going to have to face those allegations in a court of law where he'll have an attorney representing him and not a campaign spokesperson.
So, I just think it's unfortunate that he has decided to take that, oh, this is all politics route.
One more thing, Laura, if I may say. I know that you know this case very well, and you know these men are not guilty. But 67 million Americans watched that debate. And nearly no one who watched that debate has the familiarity with the facts that you have. The reality is that most Americans don't know anything about this incident that occurred in New York City in 1989. They don't know who the Central Park Five are, now called the Exonerated Five, correctly.
And so, when he says these things about these men, that they pled guilty, that they killed this woman, of course, she's not dead at all, he is creating an impression out there that soils their names and it requires them to clear their names in a court of law.
COATES: Shanin Specter, we will follow this case very closely. Thank you so much for joining.
SPECTER: Laura, thank you.
COATES: There's more to our conversation. I asked Shanin Specter about this moment from after the debate when Donald Trump ran into a member of the Exonerated Five, Yusef Salaam. You can hear what the lawyer has to say about this on my Instagram and X accounts @thelauracoates.
Ahead, Trump tries to supersize his campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm looking for a job. And I've always wanted to work at McDonald's.
COATES: The former president's latest campaign is done, picking up a shift at an empty McDonald's in Philadelphia.
[23:50:03]
Was it a winning move or a photo-op flop?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm looking for a job. And I've always wanted to work at McDonald's.
I love salt. Wait a minute, I spilled some. I'm very superstitious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: So, we've talked about the red and the blue of the 2024 election. But now, we got to talk about the gold, the golden arches to be specific. Mickey Dees (ph) has been thrust into the political spotlight after Trump traded his suit for an apron to man the fry machine in a staged photo-op in Pennsylvania over the weekend. It's the same job that V.P. Harris says she held in college 40 years ago, which Trump continues to baselessly claim that she is lying about.
And when asked about an issue that was key for many McDonald's workers, the minimum wage and raising it? Well, Trump dodged.
[23:55:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, I think this, I think these people work hard, they're great, and I just saw something, a process that's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing to see. These are great franchises.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Harris, of course, seizing on that answer on the campaign trail today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: My opponent, Donald Trump, does not believe we should raise minimum wage. I absolutely believe we must raise minimum wage and that hardworking Americans, whether they're working at McDonald's or anywhere else, should have at least the ability to be able to take care of their family and take care of themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Here to discuss, Marcia Chatelain. She's a professor of Africana Studies at the University of Pennsylvania. She's also the author of the Pulitzer Prize-winning book, "Franchise: The Golden Arches in Black America." A great book. I'm glad that you're here today with me as well. How effective is it for Trump to do this on the campaign trail?
MARCIA CHATELAIN, PROFESSOR OF AFRICANA STUDIES AT UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA, AUTHOR: I mean, how effective is any of his shenanigans? I think what he actually was doing when he was at that McDonald's was cosplaying a working-class person but reminding everyone that he doesn't have to work that hard, that he doesn't have to worry about the conditions of fast food workers.
So, I find it personally insulting as a person from a working-class family, but I think a lot of Trump's appeal is the fantasy that you could have lots of money and still enjoy something like McDonald's and connect to the very people that you disregard.
COATES: It sounds condescending.
CHATELAIN: Deeply.
COATES: But yet, many might look at this and say, well, what's different from this? And say, pancake breakfast or walking around a state fair or kissing babies, politicians do things just ingeniously all the time. Why is this specifically so different?
CHATELAIN: Well, what it does, it degrades the sophistication of fast food work. You have to be concerned about safety, efficiency. You have to feed a lot of people in a short period of time. As someone who gets really angry after a Thanksgiving dinner that I cook --
(LAUGHTER)
-- you know, I have a profound respect for fast food workers. And so, when you can just walk into the kitchen and cook fries and indulge in your fantasies, you really do lose sight of all the opportunities to really learn about how workers survive.
COATES: You know, you have a new op-ed out today talking about how McDonald's has been a symbol of American capitalism for years. And over half of the McDonald's workforce is either Black or Hispanic. What does the franchise itself represent, particularly among Black and Latino communities?
CHATELAIN: Well, for a long time, the idea of a franchise was considered the pinnacle of African-American or Latino business success because people had been shut out of so many other opportunities. So, I think, in many ways, it's a double-edged sword. On one hand, McDonald's has always said that the franchise is something that working people could aspire to, but the reality is that the wages that working people make rarely leads to enough savings to invest in a franchise.
But as someone who grew up Black in Chicago, the network of Black McDonald's franchise owners was always really important because they played an important civic and political role in communities.
COATES: And we're also -- it was early 80s or late 80s when you're talking about Calvin getting a job, right?
CHATELAIN: Oh, Calvin.
COATES: Calvin got a job there. You had the McDowell's (ph) franchise of coming to America, trying to do a spinoff of this franchise as well. It sorts of baked into the recipe as a fixture of what it could mean for entrepreneurial success as well, which adds to why McDonald's as a corporation did not have to sanction his availability or being there. It's about a franchise specifically for that.
But he is continuing to claim without evidence and kind of trolling Harris now about this, that he has worked there longer than she has. It is reminiscent of his refusal to believe the facts that are stated by the candidates he opposes. It hearkens back to another person from Chicago in many ways, Obama.
CHATELAIN: Absolutely. Well, I mean, I think that when you don't have substance, you have no policy platform, you don't have a lot of talent and a lot of skills, that your best bet is just to say that everyone is lying. And as someone like Donald Trump, who's very intimately aware of how to lie all the time, you just -- you lead with that and you keep it going.
And I don't think anyone actually believes that the Harris campaign made up that she worked at McDonald's. I think ultimately is that he knows that there's nothing really to say more about it, and so we get the stunts and we get the lies about Harris.
COATES: How problematic is it for him not to have answered the question about the minimum wage?
CHATELAIN: Well, this is the fundamental problem, I think, in all political discourse, right? We use people and their jobs as props. But the question is, who's going to actually be accountable for elevating the lives of working people? And so, the fact that he can't talk about the minimum wage, but he suggests that there will taxes on tips, shows that he really doesn't have a sound economic plan. What he has are a series of responses to the fact that he's not doing very well in this campaign.
COATES: I love being next to a brilliant woman. She's here with me today.
(LAUGHTER)
Marcia Chatelain, thank you so much.
CHATELAIN: Thank you.
COATES: And hey, thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
[00:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight on "360," Vice President Harris and Liz Cheney is search of swing state Republicans looking to bail on Trump. The former president making three appearances in North Carolina, still spreading falsehood --
