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Laura Coates Live

John Kelly Spill Beans of Former Boss; Gold Star Father Knew Trump's Caliber; Eminem Endorses Who He Wants as Next POTUS; Rudy Giuliani Reaps What He Sowed. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired October 22, 2024 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: To drop bombs but I keep on forgetting.

(CROWD CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Who doesn't remember all those lines from that classic Eminem song. We'll weigh in next time on whether that was better or worse than Vivek Ramaswamy's rendition. That's for another day.

Thank you for watching "NewsNight, State of the Race." Laura Coates Live starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Tonight, breaking ranks, a prominent figure in the Trump White House with a stark warning for America about the former president's fascist tendencies and an apparent affinity for Adolf Hitler, of all people.

Plus, the continued fall of America's mayor. Rudy Giuliani now ordered to turn over much of his property, including his New York City apartment to the Georgia election workers that he defamed back in 2020.

And hi, my name is who? My name is what? Slim Shady. With just two weeks to go into election day, Harris calling on Eminem to give her a boost in Michigan, tonight on Laura Coates Live.

So, John Kelly was Donald Trump's longest serving chief of staff. The retired marine general has spoken out about his old boss before, frankly, several times. But tonight, with just two weeks to go until election day, precisely two days at that, two weeks at that, Kelly is delivering one of his most forceful rebukes to date. He's going on the record, not once, but twice today.

The New York Times publishing audio recordings of Kelly, voicing his concerns about a new Trump presidency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) Certainly, the former president is in the far-right area, he's certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators. He has said that. So, he certainly falls into the general definition of a fascist, for sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: For sure? And that's not all. Kelly also expressing fears that Trump would act like a dictator if left up to his own devices and not just any dictator. Adolf Hitler.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: He would, he commented more than once that, you know, that Hitler did some good things, too. And of course, if you know history, again, I think he's lacking in that. But if you know what history, you know, Hitler was all about, it'd be -- you'd be pretty hard to make an argument that he did anything good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: This is on the record we're hearing from him. And that was coupled with reporting by the Atlantic's Jeffrey Goldberg, who says that Kelly told him about Trump raising the subject of German generals. And when Kelly responded, surely you can't mean Hitler's generals, Trump replied, yes, Hitler's generals.

Goldberg also sourced two people who heard Trump say from inside the White House, I need the kind of generals Hitler had.

The Trump campaign telling CNN that he never said this, and the quote is absolutely false. But why does Kelly want the public to know this? And why is he speaking out? Well, because of language like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have two enemies. We have the outside enemy, and then we have the enemy from within. It is the enemy from within. These are bad people. We have a lot of bad people. Yes, they are to me the enemy from within.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, Kelly has a take on those threats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: I think this issue of using the military to go after American citizens is one of those things I think is a very, very bad thing. Even to say it for political purposes to get elected, I think it's a very, very bad thing, let alone actually doing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: We're now two weeks to election day, 14 days till we see what America really wants. Joining me now, retired Major General Randy Manner. He endorsed Kamala Harris for president. And the New Yorker's Susan Glasser. She is the co-author of "The Divider, Trump in the White House." And the book that revealed Trump asked his then Chief of Staff John Kelly, why can't you be like the German generals?

General Manning, we'll start with you here. General Kelly telling the New York Times, and on record and audio, by the way, that Trump fits the definition of a fascist. I mean, it's a stunning notion to hear from a top military leader about his former commander-in-chief, who he served under. What's your response?

[23:05:01]

RANDY MANNER, RETIRED U.S. ARMY: So it's important to say that it's not only General Kelly, it's also General Milley as the previous chairman of Joint Chiefs. I really need to remind all the viewers the four definitions, the four words from Webster about what is fascism.

It's a nationalistic, far-right, conservative cause, check. It requires absolute obedience, check. It's the forced suppression of opposition, which Trump has said over a hundred times in the past year that he would suppress those that oppose him. And then the fourth one is the supremacy of a race and or religion, check-check, white, and then Christian.

So I want to make sure that everyone understands that not only do General Kelly and General Milley properly call Trump a fascist, but the MAGA are fascists. And so literally a Trump for -- a vote for Trump is a vote for fascism. We have to understand that.

COATES: Susan, with that context provided by the general, and of course, certainly those who vote for Trump, I'm sure would take issue with that. And yet, the definition he has laid out conveys a sense of an ominous warning here. And you first reported some of Trump's praise for Hitler in your book, "The Divider," when Trump asked his then chief of staff, John Kelly, why can't you be like the German generals?

Now, apparently, Kelly had to explain Hitler's generals tried to kill him three times and almost pulled it off. What does this fascination with Hitler say about Trump?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: You know, it's been documented for a long time with Donald Trump predating his presidency, and it's very consistent, Laura, with his admiration for dictators. In fact, I found it really remarkable that on this evening that we're having this really extraordinary news coming out of Trump's own chief of staff, a former four-star marine general calling him a fascist, going on the record with these allegations that I and others reported.

Donald Trump was at a rally tonight and what was he doing? He was praising Xi Jinping, the dictator in China. And I think it's very consistent with his praise of Vladimir Putin, of Xi. And you know, no matter how many times Trump has been told you cannot say these things.

Remember, that's what John Kelly told Donald Trump when he was his top advisor. He said, sir, you cannot praise Hitler. You are the leader of the United States. What did Trump do? He continued to do that.

And I think that we, you know, when somebody tells you who they are in this fashion, I think it's very important. And I do think it's very important that John Kelly has gone public and put on the record this reporting from us and from so many other journalists. It's important for the American people, obviously, to know this about their aspiring president.

COATES: To hear his voice say it adds another layer to what we knew had been circulating, the concerns, General, about people from his cabinet, people who he entrusted, who do not trust him to lead again. And something about hearing his voice say these things and be willing to go on the record two weeks before is really extraordinary.

And Kelly says, what's motivating him, General, to speak out now are Trump's comments about using the military to crush what he calls this enemy within. What does that say about the urgency of Kelly's concerns?

MANNER: So, first of all, Laura, he is completely on target. Please remember, for all the viewers, General Kelly and General Milley, they're conservative. They are not liberal generals. They are conservative. That's why they were selected to work for him, in so many words.

I have been apolitical for all 35 years of my military service. I voted for Ronald Reagan. I voted for George Bush Sr. It's something, and then I have voted on the other side as well, but I regard myself down the middle. It is extremely challenging.

And quite frankly, it is the time for all of us in the military to speak up about the danger that Trump is unfit to be the commander-in- chief and that he is an absolute danger to our country. Not just a fascist by the definition. This is not name-calling. This is using the definition of the English language. I do call on everyone to look it up, check it yourself.

COATES: What's so striking about that, Susan, in particular, we are accustomed as a society to our military being apolitical. Obviously, the president is both POTUS, right, and the commander-in-chief. And to hear those from the military, in particular, speaking out, there's something very striking about that.

And the Trump campaign is responding tonight, saying that Kelly, and I'm quoting them, totally be-clowned himself.

[23:10:01]

Trump has berated other military critics by demeaning them, by demeaning their work, calling them overrated, calling them ineffective, even, Susan, calling some treasonous. So why hasn't this disqualified Trump in the eyes of Americans?

GLASSER: Well, I think it's probably one of the areas in which, Laura, he's been the biggest outlier of any president of my lifetime, or you know, probably any other is in this consistent attack on the institution of the military, which generally speaking both Democrats and Republicans have, you know, been very reluctant to criticize. If only because politically it would seem to be a terrible idea.

To your point about the generals, I would just like to underscore that in my reporting for "The Divider," it's not just the former chairman, Mark Milley, and John Kelly who believe these things. In my reporting, I interviewed many very senior, very senior current and former military officials who had this direct personal experience with Donald Trump and had many of the same views that both General Kelly and General Milley have been reported to have.

I think that's very important to point out. These were apolitical career national security people who dedicated their lives to serving the American public. It was some of the most shocking reporting I've ever done, Laura, to hear people talk like this at their own shock at the commander in chief.

There's one revealing anecdote that is in the Atlantic piece that was also in our book from the former vice chair of the joint chiefs during Trump's tenure, in which he's trying to explain to Trump why we don't want to have a military parade in Washington the kind that Trump wanted to have. And he says, I grew up in Portugal when it was a military dictatorship. And I'm trying -- he's trying to get across to Donald Trump, this isn't what democracies do. This is what dictators do.

And again, it's just not just words of John Kelly. It's a lot - - it's the experience of the most senior national security officials who served when Trump was president.

COATES: Really astounding. Retired Major General Randy Manner, Susan Glasser, thank you both so much.

MANNER: Thank you for having me.

COATES: I mean, frankly, while that's all shocking on its own, the Atlantic article also gets into Trump's alleged disdain for members of the U.S. military. The article was detailing how Trump agreed to pay for the funeral of a 20-year-old army specialist. Her name, Vanessa Guillen who was killed by a fellow soldier at Fort Hood in Texas back in 2020.

Now you remember this case. Unbelievably tragic. And of course, this was all before attempting to go back on the promise that he found when he found out about the funeral's cost. I mean, Trump was overheard saying apparently, it doesn't cost 60,000 bucks to bury an effing Mexican, unquote.

I mean, just hearing and reading those words. It's unimaginable that we're talking about a former president of the United States and a member of the military. Trump turned a parent to his chief of staff, Mark Meadows, and he issued an order. Don't pay it.

Now the Trump campaign, again, calling that story an outrageous lie. Well, it is indeed an outrageous allegation. But top aides, Mark Meadows and Kash Patel, well, they also denied this story. But my next guest is a Gold Star father, whose son died heroically trying to save his men from a suicide bomber attack in Iraq.

Khizr Khan gained national attention in 2016 for criticizing Trump's anti-Muslim rhetoric and crackdown on immigration. And during a fiery moment at the 2016 Democratic convention, he challenged Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHIZR KHAN, GOLD STAR FATHER OF U.S. ARMY CAPT. HUMAYUN KHAN: Have you even read the United States Constitution?

(APPLAUSE)

KHAN: I will -- I will gladly lend you my copy. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: What a moment. Khizr Khan joins me now. He has endorsed Kamala Harris for president. Mr. Khan, that moment still sends chills down our collective spines, thinking about what that must have been like for you in the moment.

It's been eight years since you challenged Trump with a copy of the Constitution, and since then, he has talked about terminating the Constitution. How concerned are you about how far this could go if Trump is re-elected?

[23:15:02]

KHAN: Laura, if I may, thank you for allowing me to join you. There had been lots of talk about Hitler and Trump's admiration of Hitler. Allow me to say this, and I hope America is listening. Hitler didn't become Hitler overnight. He was elected. I want America to know he was elected to the office and then the hell broke loose as we know Hitler now.

So it was the process of election that Hitler was elected. I am one additional comment I heard your previous guest that and of General Kelly. I pay tribute to him and him being a Gold Star father is an amazing, amazing sacrifice and honor that General Kelly and his family has offered not only by serving but by that sacrifice.

Is this, that all flag officers take the oath to defend the Constitution and United States, our nation, and our democracy. And that oath does not exhaust when they become not active duty, when they retire the uniform. They still remain faithful to that oath to defend the United States.

So General Kelly is performing that obligation. And I hope that other flag officers of this country are listening to General Kelly and will step forward in condemning Donald Trump and his plan to derail our democracy, turn it into a dictatorship on March 17th.

This year, 2024, in Dayton, Ohio, he publicly announced that I will be a dictator on day one. There will be, if I am not elected, that will be end of democracy. I hope all America's flag officers are listening today and have listened to him by saying that that will be the end of democracy in the United States.

The authoritarian playbook is on display and we need to, we still have two weeks to do something about it. I have continued to speak. I will continue to speak so that we can continue to make our men and women serving in uniform, their families, our veterans, and their families so that we make them proud, appreciate and admire their service. And this danger will remain with us up until the day of election.

COATES: Mr. Khan, your words so powerful and so poignant and just reminding about the continued obligations of the oath. And it really speaks volumes about the motivation of people like Kelly or Milley, and there have been others who have spoken out, and you have said so, including families like your own who have sacrificed so much.

And there was a young woman who was killed in the military. And at one point I understand Trump was speaking about possibly paying for her funeral. And then the Atlantic came out with some reporting today when Trump made disparaging comments and backing out of helping the 20- year-old Army specialist, Vanessa Guillen's funeral costs.

And I wonder what you made of that notion, of backing out and the allegation that he made a comment about the price of what it would be like to bury a Mexican, was the words.

KHAN: It's unfortunate. It's disgraceful. It's unbecoming of un- American. An American will not say this. Our men and women that serve, take the oath to defend our country, deserve the highest respect, their families deserve the most respect and dignity.

[23:20:07]

Donald Trump is void of understanding what sacrifice is. He has not done himself any service except for himself to himself. He is nothing but ego and appetite. And from that lens when I look at his statements about this hero of ours, a young lady that served honorably, and disrespecting his family, disrespecting his funeral and his burial. I'm not amazed because I know Donald Trump. I have watched him since 2016, 2015.

In fact, I watched him in office and you hear the people that have served with him. His attorney general, General Kelly has narrated several. But his attorney general, Bill Barr, said that Donald Trump is a narcissist. He is a troubled man. He should not be reelected.

John Bolton, his national security advisor has said Donald Trump is danger to our national security and many others that have been talked about, have said that this person does not deserve to be the commander-in-chief and president of United States. So, I condemn his treatment of this hero of ours, this young lady and his family, and but it does not, it did not surprise me.

COATES: Mr. Khan, I so appreciate you taking the time to be here and to express your views and to remind us of not the enemies from within, but the heroes, including your beloved. Thank you so much.

KHAN: Thank you. COATES: Ahead, today's bombshell reporting coming only two weeks out

from the election and Governor Tim Walz already leading into it on the campaign trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And today it's been reported that Donald Trump said, I need the kind of generals that Hitler had.

(CROWD BOOING)

WALZ: Don't be the frog in the boiling water and think this is OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Well tonight, the Harris/Walz campaign responding to the explosive reporting about Trump's affinity for authoritarianism, and in particular, Hitler's generals, reported in the New York Times and also the Atlantic magazine.

Here's vice presidential candidate Governor Tim Walz from Racine, Wisconsin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALZ: As a 24-year veteran of our military, that makes me sick as hell. And it should make you sick.

(APPLAUSE)

WALZ: Folks, the guardrails are gone. Trump is descending into this madness. A former president of the United States and the candidate for president of the United States says he wants generals like Adolf Hitler had. Think about it. And he already has the Supreme Court in his pocket. They've effectively given him full immunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, again, the Trump campaign says this is false, that he didn't say it. But the question is how are voters going to react to these comments and the allegations that are contained in the reporting?

With me now, Ryan Girdusky, founder of the 1776 Project, Tara Palmeri, senior political correspondent for Puck, she's also the host of the Ringer's podcast, Somebody's Gotta Win, and Jamal Simmons, a CNN political commentator and former communications director for Vice President Harris.

Good to see you all here on a night like this. I'll begin with you, Tara. Because hearing Trump's former chief of staff saying that Trump is a fascist, I mean, take a step back for a second and just, I mean, this is stunningly abnormal in any generation or any political era that we might be in?

TARA PALMERI, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: It is, absolutely. And it absolutely supports Harris' final arguments that Trump is dangerous, unfit, a fascist, fetishizes authoritarianism. And you have people who served in his administration at the highest level, a cabinet member, chief of staff is technically a cabinet member, coming forward and supporting those claims, you know.

And that is exactly what the Democrats want right now. I mean, they're running the tape from Trump, but even more powerful is running the tape from people who have worked with him. And this actually sort of brings back those moments in the campaign and during the administration when you would hear these leaks, right?

And it reminds voters of the chaos, especially those who are suffering from Trump amnesia. I just interviewed one of Harris's top advisors on my podcast and he said, right now we're trying to bring back a little bit of Trump PTSD to these undecided, persuadable voters to remind them of the chaos.

And it's probably working to talk to a lot of those women who are, you know, swing voters, under 50, maybe without college educations, and that this is the kind of thing that they want to remind them of, the chaos. And these clips, they work.

COATES: Well, Jamal, I mean, on that point, Harris has repeatedly hit Trump on his disrespect for the military. A lot of the things that we're hearing, although hearing the actual audio is very significant and quite distinct, and the culmination of others coming forward, but some of this has connective tissue and has a reference point in earlier reporting, which leads me to wonder, is this the reason that comments like this, reporting like this, still leave Trump and Harris essentially tied in polling? I mean, well, comments like this coming from General Kelly, will that cut through to voters this time?

[23:30:03]

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, they're tied today, right? I mean, we've still got --

COATES: Good point.

SIMMONS: -- two weeks left in this campaign. Listen, when Joe Biden got on the debate stage and basically undermine the fundamental thesis of his campaign, which was, you know, stability and maybe he didn't seem as competent as we all thought that he should be. Democrats were put in a pretty tough position and they had to sort of muscle up and say, maybe this isn't the right way to go, Mr. President. Maybe we should look for something else.

I think Republicans are now being put in a very similar position when it comes to Donald Trump. The Democrats have been making the argument, Republicans have been making the argument about Joe Biden that maybe he wasn't up to the job. Democrats have been making the argument that Donald Trump wants to be an authoritarian, that Donald Trump can't be trusted with the White House again.

We now have military generals. We now have former Republican members of Congress. We now have people from inside the White House. How many sources do we need to say, and we also have Donald Trump's actual words, where he said, I want to be a dictator on day one, and he said, my enemies will be treated like enemies of the state, including the press.

And we know it's not just the Republicans and the reporters. He'll treat Republicans that way. And we have these Democrats and reporters, he'll shoot Republicans that way. Because remember when Mike Pence was in the Senate, was in the Congress and they were saying, hang Mike Pence. He said so what?

COATES: I mean part of this, Ryan, let me bring you in here, you know, there is a value in either planting seeds or undermining the media or suggesting that you can't trust them and you can trust what I have to say, because I have a feeling that there are a number of voters who are hearing so many things about Trump. They're hearing the claims, they're hearing the statements, they're hearing about members of the cabinet saying, no can do, no will do again.

And then you hear Trump's campaign saying, this is false. President Trump never said any of this. I mean, Trump though tonight praised authoritarian leaders, China's Xi, Russia's Putin. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Can you imagine what President Xi, you know, I got to know him very well, he's a fierce individual. He runs 1.4 billion people with an iron fist. Am I allowed to say he's smart? He's smart. He's a smart man. He's a fierce man. I get along with him very well. Putin, these are people that are tough people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I mean, many people have an issue with appraising of any kind of either of these two leaders. (TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY) affinity for those who are authoritarian in leadership. Does that, is that deniable at this point?

RYAN GIRDUSKY, FOUNDER, 1776 PROJECT: Well in the clip you showed, he didn't praise them. He just called Xi smart, which is the only praise he gave them.

COATES: Well, it's not an insult.

GIRDUSKY: It's not, OK, well it's not, but it's not praise either, which is what you said it was, which it wasn't. But according to the Jeffrey Goldberg article, which we talked about this entire night, you can't trust that article. Because the quote, 60,000 for an effing Mexican funeral, the only two on record sources both said that he didn't say that.

The only source is an anonymous source, and the family of the deceased soldier said that he was lovely to them and in fact they voted for Donald Trump today. That's how much they disagreed and they said it was a disrespectful article that politicized the death of their loved one.

And Jeffrey Goldberg did not care about printing something that they had no sources on the record for. And I honest to God, like most Americans, do not care about General Kelly's farewell tour where he tries to make amends for working for Donald Trump since Democrats said we're going to run all these Republicans who work for Trump out of town unless they somehow make peace.

So two weeks before election day, he runs to liberal journalist Susan Glasser about a conversation that allegedly happened four years ago. It doesn't pass a smell test. And that is why people are turned off to all of these stories. They remember Donald Trump's presidency for low inflation, jobs, peace through strength, controlled borders. That's why they care.

No one believes Jeffrey Goldberg and the article from a publication that's owned by one of the Harris's donors.

SIMMONS: Laura --

COATES: Well, first, let me just say, just so, in fact I did speak to Susan earlier. Susan wrote a book years ago where she was talking about her reporting independent and what was tonight. And this was corroborating or from what she had already learned years ago.

But to the point of, you know, how this is viewed by voters, I mean, and I know you're talking to Jamal, I want to get you in here. What you have said just now, Ryan, I think is very illustrative of what I think you're seeing from supporters of Trump who refuse to look at this in a way that is portrayed in the media.

[23:34:58]

They do not see this in the same way, whether you agree with that or not, Jamal, they do not see it the same way. And I wonder what can be done about that if you're the Harris campaign and you're out there saying, look at all the people who were telling you, do not trust this person, not just in the last few weeks, but for quite some time. Don't forget the attrition rate during his administration. What do you do with that as a campaign?

SIMMONS: First of all, what reason do we have to believe anything Donald Trump says? Donald Trump lies about things that we have seen with our very own eyes, right? We all watch January 6th, and he says it was a day of love. So, we don't have a reason to believe Trump. I'd rather believe military generals who are honored and decorated and people don't have any reason to lie, right? It makes more sense.

(CROSSTALK)

GIRDUSKY: But when John Bolton was in the Bush White House, did you believe him?

SIMMONS: This isn't about the Bush White House. GIRDUSKY: No, you didn't. no, you didn't believe him. You believe him

now that he attacks Trump. Just making the record straight.

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS: This isn't about the Bush White House.

GIRDUSKY: That's when they're useful.

SIMMONS: Because you can say what you want to say about the Bush.

GIRDUSKY: That's when the Republicans attack Trump.

SIMMONS: This isn't about that, sir.

GIRDUSKY: Just for the record.

SIMMONS: This is about the person that is aspiring to be president of the United States today. And so, what I think the Harris campaign has to do, the Harris campaign has to continue to tell the stories that they're doing right now. They're doing it inside our rallies. They're making us pay attention to this in a way that people haven't paid attention to it.

And I think what will happen over the course of time is that it's not just, it's not going Donald Trump is going to be at 45 or 44 percent. This is going to be a 48, 49 percent candidacy. But if the Harris campaign can peel two points off of Donald Trump, one or two points off of him, and these battleground states, they win this election.

PALMERI: The problem is that the people that they want to peel off, they may not be paying attention to this story. They may not be following every single line coming out of, you know, Kamala Harris. They're not watching rallies. They're not showing up to rallies. They're frankly probably streaming maybe getting a few text messages on their phone and ignoring it all together.

SIMMONS: Right.

PALMERI: So, to even reach these people like you really need to hit them from all different angles and are they going to be reading the Atlantic? I don't know about that.

SIMMONS: No, but they'll be on their phones, Tara. They'll be on their phones, and they'll get it in social media posts and they'll get it in advertisements, they'll get it in radio, there are ways to communicate.

(CROSSTALK)

PALMERI: But they've --

COATES: But Ryan, let me say this.

GIRDUSKY: Yes, because they've never -- they've never --

COATES: Excuse me.

GIRDUSKY: -- heard Trump being compared to Hitler before.

COATES: Excuse me, I want to hear, excuse me. I want you to hear, since you talked about Jeffrey Goldberg, I want you to hear, he was actually on CNN earlier this evening defending his work, and I know that you took issue with the way in which it was written and conveyed the information. Listen to this for a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFREY GOLDBERG, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE ATLANTIC: Mark Meadows was in the meeting. Kash Patel was in the meeting, a whole bunch of other senior officials were in the meeting. I have sources who are sitting in that meeting. I have contemporaneous notes taken by participants in that meeting that described exactly what I described in the story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, this is the thing. Voters have heard one side, the other side hearing from him, and of course we'll hear from the candidates 14 days from now we'll see how they decide the issue. Thank you all so much.

SIMMONS: Thank you.

COATES: Ahead, Slim Shady, Marshall Mathers, Eminem, whatever you want to call him. Detroit Royalty was in the house tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMINEM, RAPPER AND SONGWRITER: Detroit! What up, though?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: What's up? Fourteen days in election. More from his Harris campaign appearance with former President Obama and the video you have to see of Obama rapping Eminem's song, next.

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OBAMA: I noticed, my palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy, vomit on my sweater already, mom's spaghetti. I'm nervous but on the surface, I look calm and ready, to drop bombs but I keep on forgetting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I was not prepared for that. But why I was mouthing the words as well? Like why we all in the studio doing the same thing? That was former President Obama's rapping Eminem's "Lose Yourself" in the movement, the moment you own it, you better never let it go.

Just after being introduced by the legendary Detroit rapper, he has been a vocal critic of Trump and here he is tonight officially endorsing one Kamala Harris.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMINEM: People shouldn't be afraid to express their opinions. And I don't think anyone once in America where people have worried about retribution of what people will do if you make your opinion known.

(APPLAUSE)

EMINEM: I think Vice President Harris supports a future for this country where these freedoms and many others will be protected and upheld.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I want to get to LZ Granderson, a Detroit native and host of the Life Out Loud with LZ Granderson podcast. LZ, they're in your hometown tonight. How significant is it to get Eminem's endorsement in Michigan more broadly, especially when it comes to efforts to mobilize working class voters?

LZ GRANDERSON, OP-ED COLUMNIST, LOS ANGELES TIMES: Absolutely, Laura. You nailed it. You know, Trump usually goes to Michigan and pulls out, you know, Kid Rock. But those of us who were born and raised in the area, we all know that Kid Rock is just doing cosplay. And that Eminem is actually a real product of the area and of the city of which he speaks and or he represents. And he also doesn't use his platform very often in the political spectrum.

So, when he does speak like this, it does have impact in Michigan specifically, but also nationally. Remember, he's still a very popular figure. And "Lose Yourself," deal with an Oscar, because it is that dope, and it does still have that staying power like that.

COATES: I mean, he's got to own it, never let it go, get one shot, right? And this was apparently his shot to endorse Kamala Harris. And yet, as you mentioned, it's not just Detroit he has to appeal to. It's got to be Michigan, which of course has the huge undecided voter population we knew from months ago.

But Eminem has also been a huge Trump critic. He's made waves back in 2017 when he released, well, this freestyle on BET. Listen.

[23:44:58]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMINEM: We better give Obama props, 'cause what we got in office now is a kamikaze that'll probably cause a nuclear Holocaust. And while the drama pops and he waits for (muted) to quiet down, he'll just gas his plane up and fly around till the bombing stops.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Does it resonate, his critique? GRANDERSON: I think so. I think so in Detroit because in or in

Michigan in general, because listen, we have this saying in Detroit area. Are you from Detroit or Detroit, Detroit? Because there's a lot of people who say they're from Detroit, but they're really like 35, 40, 50 miles away. And they aren't really of the city and of the element of the working-class people that you think of when you think of the area.

That's not Eminem. That's not who he represents. That's not where he's come from. And so, we know that in the area and he's drawn attention to a part of the conversation that I think missing with a lot of people is that it's the artist's impact on what a Trump presidency could see -- could be.

You know, that's what I thought in terms of how he was endorsing the vice president and speaking specifically about retribution for how you speak. You're talking about him using his rap platform to attack President Trump. Well, he's talking as an artist.

Artists should not be afraid to speak out particularly against elected officials. That's what the First Amendment is for. And I think Eminem used his endorsement as a way of using his stance as an artist to direct our attention towards that as well.

COATES: Well, I'll be curious to see the impact of his endorsement. It doesn't ring like the pure, quote, unquote, celebrity endorsements that Trump has been very critical of when he's not receiving, but very praising of when he gets it.

LZ, real quick, before I let you go, I want your critique on Obama's rendition of "Lose Yourself." What do you think?

GRANDERSON: You know what was good about it? It was sneaky. That's what I appreciated. It took you about two or three weeks. Once you caught on, then he just let it rip. So I give him props on the delivery.

COATES: Well, look, it made me want mom's spaghetti. LZ Granderson, thank you so much.

GRANDERSON: Thank you.

COATES: But mom, I would never throw up, because it's amazing, mom. OK?

Ahead, Rudy Giuliani feeling the squeeze after a federal judge orders him to turn over his Manhattan penthouse, a luxury car, World Series rings, and more to the Georgia election workers that he defamed. His former spokesman joins me next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I noticed, my palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy, vomit on my sweater already, mom's spaghetti. I'm nervous but on the surface, I look --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:50:00]

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RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER DONALD TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: Ruby Freeman and Shae Freeman-Moss and one other gentleman, quite obviously, surreptitiously passing around USB ports as if they're vials of heroin or cocaine. I mean, it's obvious to anyone who's a criminal investigator or prosecutor, they are engaged in surreptitiously illegal activity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Was it obvious that it was a USB port that he was referencing, or was it actually like a ginger chew? That lie that he told about the two election workers, it just cost Trump's former lawyer big time.

A judge in the defamation case against Giuliani ordered him to turn over, among other things, his $6 million New York penthouse, 26 luxury watches, and a signed Joe DiMaggio jersey. The recipients? Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss, the mother and daughter who say that Giuliani's lies destroyed their lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBY FREEMAN, FMR. GEORGIA ELECTIONS WORKER: I've lost my name and I've lost my reputation. I've lost my sense of security. All because a group of people starting with number 45 and his ally Rudy Giuliani decided to scapegoat me and my daughter Shaye.

SHAYE MOSS, FMR. GEORGIA ELECTIONS WORKER: I no longer give out my business card. I don't transfer calls. I don't want anyone knowing my name.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Giuliani's spokesperson did not return our request for comment. With me now, the former spokesman for Giuliani's 1993 mayoral campaign, Ken Frydman.

Ken, thank you so much for joining. I mean, it's apparently time to pay the piper. How do you think Giuliani will react to having to give up so many of his valuables and lucrative ones at that?

KEN FRYDMAN, SPOKESMAN, 1993 GIULIANI MAYORAL CAMPAIGN: Sure. But he won't be homeless or penniless. I understand that he's got millions in retirement funds, IRA's, Social Security, which is exempt from awards like these judgments. But listen, we reap -- we reap what he sowed. He sowed an insurrection and he reaped an indictment in Georgia. He sowed a defamation and he reaped $148 million judgment.

So, look, I mean, he's not happy, who would be? But these were all self-inflicted wounds. He has no one to blame but himself for having defamed these two innocent people who, unfortunately for him, were very sympathetic, very sympathetic victims. COATES: I mean, he's defamed and then, but then he's also, he's been

disbarred. I know you mentioned that of course he has other assets of some kind. He's facing criminal charges. His own daughter says that her father's support for Trump has actually torn their family apart.

What do you think is motivating Giuliani to continue to stand by Trump despite all of this?

[23:55:00]

FRYDMAN: Well, he's he doubles down and triples down, same as Trump. They have that -- they have that in common. You're not going to tell them they made a mistake. They're contrarians. I used to say, if you tell them someone is doing a lousy job, he'll give them a raise. I think that's part of the motivation on his part.

You know, I'm right, you're wrong, despite what the court said. Listen, he was told not to talk about January 6th on the radio, on his radio show, and he did it anyway. You know, he makes his own rules. But sometimes you've got to pay the piper, as you said, Laura.

COATES: Well, certainly that has come to fruition. This is just part, though, of the very big settlement, or very big, excuse me, award that they were granted. This is perhaps just a small portion, and what else will come?

Ken Frydman, thank you so much.

FRYDMAN: You're welcome. Thanks for having me, Laura.

COATES: Thank you all for watching. Anderson Cooper 360 is next.

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