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Laura Coates Live
Trump Expected to Pick Rubio for Secretary of State; Democrats Float "Shadow Cabinet" to Fight Trump; DOJ Prepares for Trump 2.0; Musk Spotted at Mar-a-Lago Nearly Every Day Since Election. Aired 11p- 12a ET
Aired November 11, 2024 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
MONDAIRE JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: -- be one of those people who had the bad judgment to defend him staying in the race because it would have had even more disastrous consequences than what Democrats experienced earlier this week.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: All right, Scott?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Costco has been forced to recall 80,000 pounds of butter. Why? Well, the ingredients list didn't say that it contained milk. So, the FDA and all its genius stepped in and forced a recall. My hot take tonight is when did America become this stupid?
PHILLIP: All right, Toure, you got a couple seconds.
TOURE, PODCASTER: You know, I've been a writer for 30 years. I still don't know how to use the semicolon.
(LAUGHTER)
Can we eliminate it? It's like a comma with an attitude. Is the sentence over? I don't know. How do I read it? This is all in the mix and it doesn't make any sense. Can we just get rid of it?
PHILLIP: Okay, okay, okay. All right, no semicolons, everyone. Thank you very much. "Laura Coates Live" is up right now.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Breaking tonight, little Marco no more. Donald Trump taking a tap -- one of those people who at the bad judgement to defend him staying int the race because it would have had even more disastrous consequences than what Democrats experienced earlier this week.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: All right, Scott?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Breaking tonight, little Marco no more. Donald Trump is picking Senator Marco Rubio for Secretary of State. So, how will the pick land with the MAGA faithful?
Plus, Democrats on Capitol Hill lick their wounds and search for solutions, as one lawmaker floats a provocative idea, a shadow cabinet of Democrats. That lawmaker, live with me tonight.
And preparing for the promised retribution. How the DOJ is getting ready for Trump's 2.0 administration. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
Well, tonight, the biggest pick yet for Donald Trump's second administration. We are learning tonight that he is expected to choose Marco Rubio as secretary of state. It would be a huge role for the Florida senator, who has become a serious foreign policy hawk, especially on China and Iran.
Now, Trump's choice did not appear to be an easy one. A source says the president-elect was leaning toward former Trump acting director of National Intelligence, Rick Grenell, as of this morning, of all times. But he shifted to Rubio after calls and conversations with Rubio allies. A big caveat you heard from us before, of course, we're hearing Trump could change his mind until the offer is formally made, maybe even afterwards. If you're finding the pick a bit of a surprise, you're not the only one, not least because of the heated insults they traded back in 2016.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: Don't worry about it, little Marco.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Gentlemen -- gentlemen --
TRUMP: You ought to chill a bit.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Gentlemen, you got to do -- you got to do better than those.
TRUMP: This guy has the number one, number one absentee record in the United States.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Trump, I'd like to ask you a policy question.
TRUMP: He doesn't show up to vote.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Your proposed tax cut --
TRUMP: That's why the people in Florida do not like him.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): He's always calling me "little Marco." And I'll admit, he's taller than me, he's like 6'2", which is why I don't understand why his hands are the size of someone who's 5'2". Have you seen his hands? They're like this. And you know what they say about men with small hands.
(APPLAUSE)
You can't trust them. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Hmm. How much has changed in just eight years, huh? Now, if there's anything we do know about Trump, is that he's willing to bury the hatchet if, and that's a big if, you show loyalty. And his relationship with Rubio has improved by leaps and bounds over the years. After all, Rubio was a finalist for Trump's V.P. this time around. But remember this, during the 2024 campaign, some in MAGA world raised concern that Rubio is too establishment. For example, Don Jr.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP JR., SON OF DONALD TRUMP: I have a good relationship with Marco. But there is some truth about like, you know, having someone that's a little bit more establishment in there. It's like -- wouldn't -- like the Senate RINOs, like wouldn't they love that? Like, you know, I joked. You know, I said that about Nikki Haley.
It was like -- it gets her like -- by the time my father's hand moves off the Bible in the swearing in process on -- what's the date? Is it January 20th? At 12 p.m., January 20th. The second it goes off, it would be like impeachment and gone. Like that's how fast it would be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: While some of the MAGA faithful may be raising an eyebrow, Rubio will certainly give comfort to many traditional Republicans. Even former congressman, GOP congressman at that, a vocal critic of Trump, Adam Kinzinger, says this is good news.
But make no mistake, Rubio has aligned himself with Trump's foreign policy views, including skepticism toward Ukraine. And he's just the latest pick to fill out Trump's foreign policy and national security team.
A little while ago, a source telling CNN that Trump has asked GOP Congressman Mike Waltz to be his national security adviser. It will be a tough role to fill, considering Trump churned through four -- yes, four in his first term. Now, Waltz would juggle the Ukraine conflict and the Israel-Hamas war, already two very tall orders.
Trump also picked GOP Congresswoman Elise Stefanik for United Nations ambassador. That brings us a total of seven picks already.
[23:05:00]
There's a whole lot more, of course, to go.
Joining me now, the co-author of "Find Me the Votes," Michael Isikoff, Republican strategist Erin Perrine, also CNN political commentator and senior spokesperson for Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign, Karen Finney. Glad to have all of you here.
Okay, Michael, I'm going to begin with you, because a source telling CNN that Trump is likely to pick Rubio. It was first for "The New York Times," by the way, of course. But he could still change his mind. Will he, you think?
MICHAEL ISIKOFF, CO-AUTHOR, "FIND ME THE VOTES": Probably not at this point, but what's fascinating is the reporting that he was all set to name Rick Grenell --
COATES: Hmm.
ISIKOFF: -- as late as this morning, and then changed his mind at the last -- at the last minute. Look, this reflects the tension that's going on in Trump world right now between, you know, the MAGA -- the people who want MAGA faithful in all top positions and people looking for more reassurance with traditional Republicans, people who can work -- who can work on compromises and perhaps reassure the country.
And, you know, before Rubio, it's mixed so far. I would say Susan Wiles is a bit reassuring because even though she was the campaign manager, was not viewed as the ideological vengeance seeker. But then you get Stephen Miller as deputy White House -- White House deputy chief of staff.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
ISIKOFF: He's full MAGA, right? I thought when Trump put out the tweet that Pompeo and Haley were out and would not serve, that was a pretty big message to the MAGA faithful crowd that he was going in their direction, but then he picks Rubio. So, the one to watch coming up is the biggie, attorney general.
COATES: That's going to be a huge one, of who he chooses for that. That'll always hit the tone about whether it's retribution that he's after or that he's going to focus on something else.
But focusing on Rubio for a moment, I mean, Grenell and Rubio, distinct people, frankly. Rubio is a hawk. And the idea of Ukraine and support, here's what he said just last week about Ukraine and what he would do. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBIO: I think the Ukrainians have been incredibly brave and strong and standing up to Russia. But at the end of the day, what we are funding here is a stalemate war, and it needs to be brought to conclusion because that country is going to be set back a hundred years. Now, that doesn't mean that we celebrate what Vladimir Putin did or are excited about it, but I think there has to also be some common sense here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: How does that align with what Republicans are feeling about the support for Ukraine?
ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST FOR AXIOM STRATEGIES, FORMER DIRECTOR OF PRESS COMMUNICATIONS FOR TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN: Well, I think that you've heard many within the Republican Party for most of the totality of the war between Russia and Ukraine who have said, we've wanted to see leadership, we want to see a path forward, we want to know that there's oversight on the money being spent. So, I think that is reflective of kind of where that started and where that has evolved into the party a few years down the road.
Now, for Marco Rubio here, should he become the final selection for secretary of state, there are a number of good things that are going to happen there. One, he's liked by his Senate colleagues. So, a confirmation would not be a terribly difficult process for him.
And when you are looking at so many geopolitical conflicts that are going to be inherited by the second Trump administration coming out of the Biden administration, someone who not only has been in the Foreign Affairs Committee and the Senate understands this, but also knows their colleagues to be able to step into this role very efficiently.
And listen, Senator Rubio has become very close to the president, and it has been eight years. What happens in a primary, it's kind of like we all forget that sometimes in politics, you can be a bit brutal in a primary and put your arms down and come together. You've seen a lot of that in the Republican Party over the last eight years.
COATES: Unless you're Nikki Haley, right? And then there seems to be --
PERRINE: But, again --
COATES: -- those hands wrapped.
PERRINE: But, also, Donald Trump understood that he didn't necessarily need her politically for this, and she wasn't really fully willing to step in the way that Marco Rubio was. Senator Rubio has become a very good ally to the president. That's why he was on the short list for a vice presidential nomination.
COATES: And yet, Karen, Don Jr. has expressed some skepticism. So is RFK Jr., by the way, which --
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Come on, if we're listening to RFK Jr., which I know Trump is, I mean --
COATES: Yes.
FINNEY: -- that's a very frightening proposition for a whole host of reasons. I do hope --
COATES: He's not listening to either, if he chose him.
FINNEY: Well, but here's the thing: Axios was reporting that what we know about the selection process is Trump watching how they do on television and whether or not they will be loyal to him. So, it doesn't really -- like, who cares if he's a hawk or he's this or he's that? He's not going to be actually running the State Department. He's going to be perhaps the manager, but the actual policy, as we saw in the first Trump term, will actually run out of the White House.
So, whatever Marco Rubio thinks or believes doesn't really matter because Trump is going to be the one driving the policy and his job is going to be simply to execute that policy. What will be interesting to see, though, as we saw in the first Trump term, a mass exodus of career foreign service officers who knew the countries in which they were serving very well.
[23:10:05]
The loss of that institutional knowledge and talent was really decimating to the Department of State and to our foreign policy. I suspect we will see that again because there were so many who just felt like they could not enact the things that Trump was asking them to do.
COATES: But in a universe -- excuse me, in a universe of those who could have been picked, for the Democrats looking at that universe and that landscape, is Rubio a safer bet?
FINNEY: You know, again, I think the way Democrats are looking at it as, you know, Trump won, he is going to appoint who he -- you know, he's going to ask who he wants to serve in his cabinet. I agree that he'll probably get confirmed fairly easily. But again, it's more about what Trump plans to do than it is who the individual is, although, I will say, you know, as the first Latino to serve, Trump also gets, you know, the showmanship of that and the importance of that.
PERRINE: So, there are two things I would say about this. One, yes, anybody that is serving in the president's cabinet, their position is to advise and then implement the president's policy. That shouldn't surprise anybody by any cabinet position. And they can disagree. And if somebody so vehemently disagrees, they can resign their cabinet post. But that hasn't happened. So, it would be fair for Senator Rubio --
FINNEY: -- first term who did actually do that, Erin.
PERRINE: -- who understand -- we understand that -- we understand that with Senator Rubio --
FINNEY: Let's be honest with people. We are going to talk about this.
PERRINE: Hey, let us understand that Senator Rubio would be taking this with full understanding that he is implementing President Trump's agenda. And two, I actually think the Trump team is very smart to be having video and showing how these people carry the message for the president, because if you are the chief diplomat, if you are the secretary of state, if you are going across the world, your ability to deliver the message on behalf --
FINNEY: It's a beauty contest, Erin.
PERRINE: No, it's not.
COATES: Michael -- hold on. Michael --
PERRINE: What's wrong with having messages?
COATES: Michael -- Michael wants to weigh in to the beauty contest.
(LAUGHTER)
ISIKOFF: I want to weigh in on -- you raised the question of whether he could be easily confirmed. He probably can. But the real question is, are there going to be confirmation hearings? This is the big --
COATES: Because of the recess.
ISIKOFF: -- the big table -- the big issue on the table right now. Wednesday the Senate will -- Senate Republicans will be voting who's a majority leader. Scott, who's Trump's pick, is making it clear that he wants to, you know, pave the way for recess appointments. So, nobody has to go through confirmation hearing.
COATES: Will that help Scott become leadership?
ISIKOFF: It could help him with -- look, it's a secret ballot, so who knows how Senate Republicans, when nobody is watching, votes? But coming back to the big one, the A.G. pick, here's the reason they don't want confirmation hearings for whoever he picks for that position, because you know every Democrat will be asking in these confirmation hearings, will you allow Donald Trump to direct you who you're going to investigate, who you're going to prosecute?
And how is a Trump pick going to answer that question? Because Trump has made it clear that's what he wants, that's what he expects. He's talking about retribution. And that is going to be a very difficult response for an A.G. pick --
COATES: And, by the way --
ISIKOFF: -- in the Senate hearing. That's why they don't want a confirmation.
COATES: By the way, every time you saw an A.G., as it started, whether it was Jeff Sessions or Bill Barr and beyond, even temporary ones, there were all those who believed that they would be perfectly in line with Trump, and they would adhere to the principles you described, Erin, about advising and implementing. But when it came down to it, there was a crisis of, well, constitutional crisis --
FINNEY: Yes.
COATES: -- a lot of times in those instances as well.
FINNEY: And I think the Department of Defense actually is going to be a tougher one than A.G. because the question is going to be, would you be willing to use American troops on American soil against American citizens? And that is going to be a tough question.
I also think, potentially, they don't want these hearings because they'll be very embarrassing, particularly if you get someone like RFK Jr. testifying, and the questioning. It will look like a clown show very quick.
PERRINE: That would be on Democrats' decision, not on Republicans. If they want to behave like children in the hearings, that'll be the --
COATES: Well, hold on, guys. Susie Wiles already says her condition of being chief of staff, no clown show. They will listen to her first second. We will be right back. Everyone, thank you so much.
Two other picks are revealing where Trump will certainly focus his attention. To Karen's point, mass deportations. And one is a very familiar face, immigration hardliner Stephen Miller. Trump is expected to pick him as deputy chief of staff for policy. Miller was a top immigration adviser in Trump's first term, advocating the separation of families and that policy, and the ban targeting people from majority Muslim countries. He made frequent appearances on the 2024 campaign trail, saying things like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISOR: Who's going to stand up and say the cartels are gone, the criminal migrants are gone, the gangs are gone, America is for Americans and Americans only?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Then there's the other immigration pick. Remember how Trump called Kamala Harris the borders are, even though she wasn't actually called the borders are? Well, he liked that title so much, he picked one of his own, Tom Homan.
[23:15:02]
He was once Trump's acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. You might know it as ICE. At the Republican convention, he made it quite clear what he wants to do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM HOMAN, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: I got a message to the millions of illegal aliens that Joe Biden released in our country in violation of federal law. You better start packing now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: I want to bring in former acting director of ICE under the Obama administration, John Sandweg. Good to see you, John. Look, Trump is planning on starting his deportations on day one. Listen to the incoming border czar, Tom Homan, frankly, just tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOMAN: We will prioritize public safety threats and national security threats first. And that's what the focus would be. And there are over 1.5 convicted criminal aliens in this country with final orders removal that we're going to be looking for.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: You know Homan quite well. Set the scene for us. How is it all going to go down? Are there obstacles that would prevent or slow the process?
JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Yeah, I hear Tom out there talking about we're going to focus first on the worst first. And frankly, you know, to give him credit, those are things he said during the Obama years when I worked with him at ICE. But the reality, Laura, is there are not 1.5 million criminals -- you know, undocumented immigrants out there to take.
I took a look before we went on air at the 2019 numbers, the last year before of Trump with ICE stats, before COVID hit. A 129,000 convicted criminals were deported that year. Why so low? It wasn't a lack of political will during the Trump administration. I mean, Tom had a large voice in that. Stephen Miller was designing the policies. It's just that there aren't 1.5 million criminal aliens out there for ICE to apprehend.
Now, what Tom is talking about though are some stats that came out lately in the campaign which were individuals who have been ordered to deport but for various reasons haven't left. But as he knows, those reasons are beyond ICE's control. Their home countries won't take them back.
Maybe they're individuals still serving prison sentences who ICE can't touch until they complete their prison sentence, or they're individuals who are successfully able to prove that if they return to China, for instance, or Russia, they will be persecuted or tortured, and thus were entitled to legal protection.
So, I guess what troubles me is the rhetoric. I get it. I get where the appeal is to the American public. Hey, let's focus on the worst first. Let's get those criminals off the streets. The bottom line, though, is they're just not there.
COATES: Well, because of that fact, that that's not the scope that you're talking about, the next question everyone has is, okay, say you go to the worst of the worst, then what happens to everyone else? I mean, the term mass deportation, if there's not a critical mass of criminals who then deport, then what happens to everyone else?
SANDWEG: You know, I want to be clear. You know, I want to clarify what I said a second ago. There are convicted criminals in this country. There are gang members and other individuals who are at large or committing serious crimes. ICE is already focused on that population during the Bush administration, the Obama administration, the Trump and the Biden administration. ICE is a laser-like focus on that population. Not a person is booked into a state federal or, you know, prisoner jail in this country without ICE knowing and without ICE taking an action.
So now, you start talking about numbers. This administration has been very clear about the numerical goals. A million deportations in the first year or 11 million over the four years. Laura, the demographics are clear. You know, 50, 60% or more of the population has been in this country 15 years. 4.4 million children have an undocumented parent, U.S. citizen children. You can't get into a million a year or 11 million a year without dipping into that population. The criminal numbers just aren't there.
The work at getting those at-large gang members, which I think I should do more of, and at-large criminals who have not yet been arrested, is tedious work, it's slow work. And when you start talking these big numbers, that means you're getting after this larger population of people who have been here a really long time and have U.S. citizen spouses and children.
COATES: John, how do you avoid the very real possibility that there could be racial profiling going on in trying to determine who are the people that ought to be rounded up? I mean, look, I know you said that ICE has their eyes on all the people who are the criminals or who are potentially those who'd be deported first, but there's also the real possibility that you have to make a number of assumptions to determine who those people would be, and being right in the end, perhaps, would not excuse violations of the Fourth Amendment and beyond.
SANDWEG: No, Laura. Look, that's a very serious issue. I think, first of all, I will tell you that what most ICE does, especially that prison and jail work, is done through biometrics. So, it is done through fingerprints. You might a record of the individual apprehended at the border. You might find a record that the individual might have a visa. I mean, one thing we're all talking about is documented population but a big portion of who lights the ports are people who are legally, who didn't commit a crime, may be a green card and commit or convicted of a fraud offense.
But I think what -- you know, one thing that's going to have to happen here is he needs resources. He needs to dramatically increase the size of ICE. And like I said earlier, you look at the 2019 Trump numbers. They're nowhere near a million. So, they're going to want to rapidly expand ICE. But what they're also going to want to do is dip into state local police.
[23:20:02]
That's where these civil rights concern really become pronounced. They're going to want to empower local sheriffs who want to get in the immigration enforcement game to pull people over and then call ICE if they suspect them of being a migrant.
And that's very difficult without the proper training and without the biometrics and without the access to all the databases that federal ICE officers have. And unfortunately, as we've seen in prior iterations of these programs, these 287G programs where you convert deputized state and local law enforcement, you do end up with racial profiling. You end up with assumptions being made based on skin color and other things that do violate the Fourth Amendment.
I guess what my concern is you talk all this force multiplier talk. Let's get local law enforcement in the game, let's get the military in the game, but they just lack that training necessary to minimize those risks. COATES: Well, that's the concern that will persist until that training resources or the realization of that constitutional amendment is fully realized. John, it's a long way to go before all this comes to fruition. Thanks for joining us tonight.
SANDWEG: Yeah, thanks, Laura.
COATES: Up next, Democrats dreaming up ideas to break the nightmare they find themselves in. Justice Sotomayor stepping down? Biden letting Harris up in as president. What about a Democratic-led shadow cabinet? The congressman behind that new idea joins me next.
And later, call it Musk-a-Lago. Elon Musk basically camping out down there with Donald Trump. So, let's give up his sleeve. Is everyone in MAGA land on board?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: Well, the Democrats' nightmare is quickly breaking into a kind of a fever dream. Some party members are floating ideas about how to respond to a second Trump presidency. And some ideas, more outlandish than others. So, let's take the temperature of the room, shall we?
First up, the dream that Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor could resign and be replaced by a younger justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that's actually a very good plan. I think it's something that should happen. You know, Justice Sotomayor has been a more than able justice. I know that she may be having some personal issues that she contends with while serving on the bench. But, you know, I don't want Justice Sotomayor to be another Ruth Bader Ginsburg in terms of staying too long.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Democrats, snap out of that one. She is staying put. Next fantasy? President Biden resigns, allowing Vice President Kamala Harris to ascend to the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: One promise left that he could fulfill, being a transitional figure. He could resign the presidency in the next 30 days, make Kamala Harris the president of the United States.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Wow!
SIMMONS: He would absolve from being able to -- from having to oversee the January 6th transition, right, of her own defeat, and it would make sure that it would dominate the news at a point where Democrats have to learn drama and transparency and doing things that the public would want to see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Again, Democrats, you might want to wake up. That's not going to happen. But it would force Trump to throw out anything with 47th president on it. And there's one more idea. A shadow government similar to the UK. A group of lawmakers that mirrors the cabinet and publicly challenges them.
Say, Senator-elect Adam Schiff as shadow attorney general, Congressman Gregory Meeks as secretary of state, or Colorado Senator Michael Bennet as treasury secretary. Well, that idea isn't just coming from a strategist, but a lawmaker.
And joining me now, the man behind this idea, Congressman Wiley Nickel, a Democrat from North Carolina. No dream music needed, you're in person with us. Congressman, why do you think this is the way to possibly challenge this administration?
REP. WILEY NICKEL (D-NC): First of all, this is something we can do, this is something that definitely can happen, and they've been doing it for over 100 years in the U.K.
COATES: Hmm.
NICKEL: So, this is an idea that his time has come. And if we do the exact same thing against Trump, we're going to get the same results. We have to step up our game. We have to go toe to toe with Trump. And it's not just about saying, you know, what we're against, it's about saying what we're for and putting our best messengers out there to go toe to toe. You know, they put Elise Stefanik at the U.N. We should have someone going one-on-one with her, talking about what we would do better and why the choices they make are wrong.
COATES: So, what would this look like? It would be somebody who acts as if it was a union, a response they would give every time there is a major speech or press conference, they'd have their own issue or white papers. What would this look like in practice?
NICKEL: First and foremost, it's about accountability. It's about keeping, you know, public pressure on every member of the cabinet. When they step out of line, you got someone, you know, who is there to call them out. That's -- that's something we don't have.
You know, you're -- you've got an issue with the EPA. You've got the spokesman taken a counterpoint right away on your show. That's -- that's the point of it, something where leadership, you know, Hakeem Jeffries, you know, Schumer, they could appoint folks, and we've got a ready -- a ready match to go toe to toe. It has worked well in the U.K.
COATES: There are some who would look at this and criticize it, and suggest that you'd be delegitimizing this administration, not simply giving an alternative accountability vehicle. What do you say those who question this as a ploy to try to undermine a decisive victory?
NICKEL: I think it's about making sure that they're accountable. That's the whole point of it. And, you know, we'd like anything. You start it from scratch, you get to do it our own way, our own American way. You know, they certainly have -- they've done it for a while again in the U.K.
But, you know, what I want to is I want an answer. I want a message on our issues. I want to talk about the step that we want to do so in the next election, we say, okay, you know, Trump is deporting, you know, families. This is -- this is the policy we would put in place.
And that's what you get with the shadow cabinet. I think it's a lot of fun. You start looking, you fill in those -- fill the spots.
[23:30:00]
You look at our amazing messengers who could -- who could take that task.
COATES: I wonder how that would be different from the leadership that would totally have their voice on these issues as well. I'm curious to see if there's some support behind it.
But there is a colleague of yours, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez, who asked her followers about accountability in this vein. She asked them why they split their ticket between Trump and Democrats, and if they actually did that. And some of the most comments I want to share with you, and I'm summarizing here, working class, anti- establishment, and change.
Why do you think the voters see Trump that particular way, and what do the Democrats need to do to counteract that?
NICKEL: I mean, you know, we've got to do a lot better. And I think elections are just very simple. It's a change versus more of the same. And unfortunately, to this small slice, you know, felt like Trump was their best bet for change. But those same voters in places like North Carolina and Arizona and Michigan and Wisconsin and Nevada, they voted for Democrats for the Senate, for governor in North Carolina, the same states that voted for Trump.
So, I really see it as a mixed bag with all this stuff. But we got to do a better job, talking about economic issues, talking about issues that matter at the kitchen table. Those are the things that -- that I think the Democrats who won in the same states did a really good job with.
COATES: That would be part of the message that -- of a shadow cabinet, too. Do you agree with those ideas?
NICKEL: Absolutely, 100%.
COATES: All right. Well, we will see how it works out. Congressman Wiley Nickel, thank you so much for joining us.
NICKEL: Thanks so much.
COATES: Up next, fear and loathing inside main justice. New signs of concerns inside the DOJ about a Donald Trump return, who he might pick to lead the agency, and what a Trump DOJ actually has in store.
Plus, he's the man who may be an influence to some of these picks. Just how close is Elon Musk getting to Donald Trump?
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[23:35:00]
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
There's one thing Donald Trump hasn't yet talked about since winning the White House. Retribution. Talked about it all the time, though, on the campaign trail, didn't he?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: For hardworking Americans, November 5th will be our new Liberation Day.
(APPLAUSE)
But for the liars and cheaters and fraudsters and censors and imposters who have commandeered our government, it will be their Judgment Day.
We pledge to you that we will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs.
I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution. I am your retribution.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Trump could very well aim his retribution at the Justice Department. The same DOJ that has investigated him several times, including the Trump-Russia probe, his handling of classified documents and, of course, the investigation into his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. The last two led to charges against him.
But the classified docs case, that was tossed out. The election case will likely end once he takes office. And DOJ employees are paying attention to Trump's warning of retribution. In fact, "Politico" reports they are -- quote -- "terrified of Trump's return."
Joining me now, the reporter behind this scoop, Josh Gerstein, senior legal affairs reporter for "Politico." Josh, welcome. Look, you report that there's a sense of dread. We're talking 115,000 DOJ employees. A lot of them is careers. They're not appointed. They're not political appointees. How are they preparing and accepting or not his return?
JOSH GERSTEIN, SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS REPORTER, POLITICO: Well, you know, a lot of them went through a Trump administration already. That was very turbulent for the Justice department. I remember being called in several times and people were, uh, you know, we think Jeff Sessions is going to be fired today, we think Rob Rosenstein is going to be fired today. It was a case where there was constant warring between the Justice Department and the White House, all kinds of back and forth at a level that you just never see during a normal administration.
And the people I've spoken to are convinced that this new administration, the second go-round for Trump, is going to be that but just taken up an order of magnitude or two orders of magnitude in terms of chaos, upheaval and, as you were mentioning earlier, the potential for retribution against the Justice Department and also the Justice Department being asked to sort of turn its focus on entities that maybe people there are not really interested in prosecuting like fellow prosecutors from New York or Georgia or maybe even prosecutors within their own department.
COATES: I've been a career prosecutor under two administrations. That's not tenable. It's not sustainable to have them operating under that sort of Damocles with all the work they actually have to do to think, is this the day that what I'm actually working on is taken away or I'm punished for doing my job?
And it's not just the DOJ employees. We had Mark Zaid on our airwaves earlier today. He's a national intelligence lawyer. And there are others outside of DOJ employees who are so worried about retribution that he is actually advising them in some respects to even maybe leave the country for a while. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK ZAID, NATIONAL SECURITY ATTORNEY: I'm not saying sell your home, move overseas, never come back, become an expat. I'm telling certain clients, a small number, that you know what? Take a vacation for inauguration and let's see what happens in the days or week or two afterwards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Are some Trump critics actually considering this?
GERSTEIN: Yeah, I mean, look, within the department, especially the people I think that are the most concerned at this point, are people that have ties of any kind to the investigations of Trump, to the prosecutions of Trump, to Special Counsel Jack Smith, to Special Counsel Robert Mueller.
[23:39:58]
Anybody who served in even a minor or arguably a trivial capacity in any of those investigations is concerned, you know, maybe at the higher level, that they might potentially be prosecuted or targeted by the new administration.
And at the lower level, I think the concern is that they might just be shuffled off to some desk in the corner of the department or sent to Alaska or something like that where they're just going to be essentially marginalized for Trump's entire term, and they have to think carefully about the professional consequences of whether they want to stick around for that.
COATES: What is Trump's vision of an A.G. this time around? I mean, he had several the first time beginning with Jeff Sessions. Of course, we've seen Jeff Sessions, Bill Barr and beyond. How he viewed that particular role, loyalty was essential. Has that changed this time around?
GERSTEIN: Well, I think he's probably still looking for retribution and looking for people that will carry out his vendettas and target people in the way that he has always talked about prosecutors targeting people. He believed the Democratic prosecutors did this to him, did this to other people, and he wanted to see that done for him.
I think there are already people around him that are trying to focus more on an agenda of reform. They think there need to be changes in the way the department does things, and they might desire that he appoints someone who maybe would be seen as a more competent manager.
As you mentioned, 115,000 employees. It's not a trivial kind of workforce to try to manage. They might need somebody that can be taken seriously in leading that kind of a department rather than somebody that's just going to come in and sort of flail around, which I think is the way Trump views his attorneys general having been the last time that they didn't get the job done.
You see these arguments being made to Trump sort of behind the scenes, and we don't quite know yet what type of person he's going to pick.
COATES: Well, one of the moments I think we all remember during his first administration was the firing of FBI Director James Comey. It's intended for the FBI director to have a period of tenure that goes beyond a four-year administration. Do you see Christopher Wray as holding onto his job in this next administration?
GERSTEIN: I think it's going to be very, very difficult. If you look at the coterie of people around Trump and the things that they've said about Christopher Wray, if you look at the things that the Republicans on Capitol Hill that are closest to Trump have said about Christopher Wray, I think they say that they gave him sort of a chance to try to fix a lot of the problems that they thought they saw coming in to the administration in terms of Trump's concerns about surveillance directed at his campaign or his campaign advisors the last time around 2016, and they just don't think that Ray has done enough to reform the place.
My sense is that we'll see Chris Ray depart one way or another sometime before or after the inauguration, and then Trump will have to see about potentially appointing a new FBI director. COATES: Which then, of course, adds a whole different layer to the idea of instability and the absence of institutional knowledge in that particular sector. A very important one, especially Josh. Thank you so much for joining us.
GERSTEIN: Nice to be here.
COATES: Up next, Elon Musk cited at Mar-a-Lago nearly every single day since the election. New details on how he's influencing Donald Trump's staffing decisions. Plus, the so-called "ice maiden," Trump's term, speaks. What Chief of Staff Susie Wiles is telling donors about Trump's day one plans.
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[23:45:00]
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COATES: We have a major projection in a key Senate race. CNN can project that Democratic Congressman Ruben Gallego will beat Republican Kari Lake for one of Arizona's Senate seats. That gives Democrats another seat in the Senate, a seat previously filled by independent Kyrsten Sinema. The Republicans are very much still in power there.
Gallego has been in Congress for 10 years. Lake previously ran for Arizona governor in 2022, narrowly losing to Governor Katie Hobbs. She's a controversial figure whose election denials haunted her Senate run. This now means it will be 52 Republicans and 47 Democrats in the Senate. The Pennsylvania Senate race is still outstanding.
Elon Musk has been spotted at Mar-a-Lago nearly every single day since Trump won the presidency. Just yesterday, they were seen on the golf course with their families. That's Musk right there with Trump's granddaughter. Her caption, "Elon achieving uncle status."
That's not all. Trump and Musk spotted sitting together on election night. They've also been enjoying dinners together on the patio. Now, sources have described Trump as being enamored with Musk. Look at this interaction from election night. That was again shot by Donald Trump's granddaughter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Elon, you have to have a picture with your boy. You have to get Elon with his boy. Gorgeous, perfect boy. That's a great picture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Look, this isn't just a budding bromance. Musk is exercising influence with the president-elect. He has been on multiple calls with world leaders, including Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. He has been weighing in on staffing decisions as well, even putting out an endorsement for Senate leadership, backing Rick Scott as majority leader. Now, I want to bring in Teddy Schleifer. He's a reporter for "The New York Times." Teddy, what else are you hearing about how Elon Musk is exerting his influence and also what's in it for him?
THEODORE SCHLEIFER, REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: Sure, well, Elon, as CNN is reporting, and I can confirm, is spending basically every single day at Mar-a-Lago.
[23:50:04]
He is in every single meeting. He is interviewing every single person up for every single job and so much that you forget that he is not on the transition committee at all. You know, his role in some ways outstrips someone like Howard Lutnick or Linda McMahon, who are the leaders of the transition team.
You know, Elon, from what I've heard, is not really putting his thumb on the scale that much on individual staffing decisions. He's not necessarily introducing new people. He's mostly kind of vetting the existing names that have put a fit for him.
But, you know, I don't even think some Trump insiders expected Elon to be spending so much of his time, like, he has basically been at Mar-a- Lago since Tuesday night with one brief sojourn back to Texas.
COATES: Why? What's in there for him?
SCHLEIFER: You know, I think Elon sees this mission as existential. You know, he's known for kind of being single-mindedly devoted to a task. You know, even though he is the CEO of multiple companies, at the same time, he, you know, is putting in the elbow grease.
And it's not really clear -- you know, obviously, he's going to get his own people in there, right? I mean, I think we have reporting at the "Times," at least, that Elon has recommended people from SpaceX to the Trump transition team.
But, you know, I think Elon does see this mission of saving America as existential. He also sees it as pretty personally gratifying. I think from people I talk to, Elon is enjoying his moment in the spotlight. He's enjoying it. We're talking about it right now. He's having fun.
COATES: Well, I wonder how long that fun will last. Both Trump and Musk known to be a bit mercurial. But let me ask you about some new reporting that you have about what Trump's soon to be chief of staff, Susie Wiles, has told a group of mostly tech industry donors. What did she say?
SCHLEIFER: Yeah. So, I'm here at the Rockbridge Network biannual meeting, which is a group of kind of wealthy, younger, tech-friendly, conservative donors. And there is no greater sign of this kind of network's influence, the fact that basically the entire Trump senior brass spent much of the day here in Las Vegas talking with this group of donors, including Susie Wiles, making some of her first post- election comments to date. What she told this group was that Trump is going to be, on day one, reinstituting a number of executive orders that Joe Biden retracted on his own day one. So, we have, you know, EOs, EOs repealed, and then the EOs are coming back. Wiles was giving a lot of FaceTime to, you know, this group of wealthy people, a lot of whom, frankly, are people who know us personally.
COATES: What kind of executive orders?
SCHLEIFER: She didn't specify. And, you know, look, I mean, there are a number of things where Trump -- where he has at least debatable executive authority to move quickly. But one of the messages Wiles emphasized today to people in the room was they wanted to move quickly. They did not want to have the same mistakes that happened four years ago happen where Trump was, you know, hemmed in by his own staff. That's why the transition is so important. They want to be -- Wiles said at one point they really only have two years to govern, not four.
COATES: Well, Elon Musk, if he's there for two years or not. Teddy Schleifer, thank you so much for joining.
SCHLEIFER: You bet.
COATES: Up next, a wicked mistake, a high-flying stunt, and a military honor 160 years past due. It's tonight's last call right after this.
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[23:55:00]
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COATES: Need a chaser to all the politics? Well, it's time for Laura's last call. Up first, Mattel apologizing after the web address to a porn site was printed on the packaging of their new Wicked dolls. The URL was supposed to bring you to the official site for the upcoming "Wicked" movie. Mattel saying they're taking immediate action to remedy the mistake. I'll bet.
Next, the movie trailer you need to see. Tom Cruise is back on the outside of an airplane in the new "Mission Impossible" trailer. Yes, the outside of an airplane. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: You've always been on the right side, brother. I have no regrets. This isn't you.
TOM CRUISE, ACTOR: I need you to trust me one last time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Is that the last time? There is the eighth "Mission Impossible" movie to come out. "Mission Impossible: The Final Reckoning" comes out in May and could be the last of the franchise.
And finally, today, on Veterans Day, Harriet Tubman was posthumously commissioned to the rank of brigadier general in the Maryland National Guard. Here is Maryland's governor, Wes Moore, talking about Tubman's legacy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. WES MOORE (D-MD): This is a person who is one of the greatest Marylanders we've ever known and someone who was willing to risk her own freedom, her own safety, her own life in order to help others. I mean, that is patriotism, that's heroism. And so, it's only appropriate that we now have a General Harriet Tubman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: It's a long time coming but appropriate. Indeed, the patriotism, the heroism of a true North Star getting her title after all.
Hey, thank you all so much for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
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