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Laura Coates Live
Terror Rampage in New Orleans, Blast in Vegas Spark Fears; Speaker Johnson is Facing Nail-Biter Vote to Keep Speakership; Trump Agrees to Get Involved to Save Speaker Johnson; South Korean Authorities Suspend Attempt to Detain President Yoon. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired January 02, 2025 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: -- started at CNN in 2001 and had the heavy, heavy responsibility of taking the country through that day that will forever live in infamy.
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AARON BROWN, FORMER CNN ANCHOR: For those of you just joining us, let's just briefly recap what we know. About an hour ago, about 8:45 Eastern Time, one plane crashed into the tower, the World Trade Center tower, on the right.
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PHILLIP: Brown left CNN in 2005, but he would go on to work at PBS, and then later, shepherding students at Arizona State University's Cronkite School of Journalism. Brown is survived by his wife, his daughter as well. May his memory be a blessing.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Good evening and welcome to "Laura Coates Live." Two American cities tonight starting off the new year in the worst possible way. New Orleans grieving the loss of 14 people after an ISIS-inspired attack on Bourbon Street, of all places, while Las Vegas remains on edge following a bombing inside of a Cybertruck that was placed outside of a Trump hotel. Authorities say the two, as of now, are not connected, but even they admit it's too early to say for sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF KEVIN MCMAHILL, LAS VEGAS METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: If these turned out to be simply similarities, very strange similarities to have. And so, we're not prepared to rule in or rule out anything at this point.
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COATES: So, what are those strange similarities? Well, both men have military backgrounds. The attacker in New Orleans, Shamsud-Din Jabbar, served for 13 years in the Army. The suicide bomber in Vegas, Matthew Livelsberger, was active duty, a Green Beret, on his leave from his post in Germany. Now, both got their trucks from a rental app. They both attacked on New Year's Day.
But again, the FBI says that is where the similarities end. Vegas attacker, who calmly drove around the strip in the Cybertruck, shot himself before he blew his truck up. That's according to police. And his motive is unknown. Now, while we are in the infancy of the investigation, the motive in New Orleans seems more clear.
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CHRISTOPHER RAIA, DEPUTY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI: He posted several videos to an online platform proclaiming his support for ISIS. In the first video, Jabbar explains he originally planned to harm his family and friends, but was concerned the news headlines would not focus on the -- quote -- "war between the believers and the disbelievers" -- end quote. Additionally, he stated he had joined ISIS before this summer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Look at the back of the white pickup truck that Jabbar used. It has an ISIS flag attached to it. Police say that he drove that truck from Houston to New Orleans, intent on carrying this out, mowing down people on Bourbon Street. He then crashed his truck. He got out of the truck. He has fired his gun before police shot him dead.
CNN has obtained exclusive video showing Jabbar unloading the truck outside of an Airbnb before the attack. And the truck, we're told, was not the only weapon he was intending to use.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAIA: FBI bomb technicians also recovered two IEDs in coolers, one from the cross section of Bourbon and Orleans Street and the second at an intersection approximately two blocks away. We did obtain surveillance footage showing Jabbar placing the devices where they were found.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now, if you look at your screen there, police say that cooler was one that had explosives inside of it, and could have actually been remotely detonated. Now, thankfully, it was not.
Now, we know Jabbar was born in Texas. He served in Afghanistan. His brother says he converted to Islam -- quote -- "long time ago." But according to court documents, there was more. He had marital troubles, was divorced twice, and also had money problems as well. But police believe that he was radicalized at some point, though they maintained tonight, he acted alone.
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RAIA: We have the three cell phones and the two laptops, been able to initially triage or go through that, and there is just nothing to indicate through call records, through anything on those devices, through interviews, through anything in our systems that he was aided in this attack by anybody.
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COATES: Well, joining me now, John Miller, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, Jamil Jaffer, founder and executive director of the National Security Institute at George Mason Law School, and Pete Lapp, retired FBI special agent.
[23:05:00]
Let me begin with you, John. Investigators are looking into all of this, of course. They say Jabbar was inspired by ISIS, that he pledged his allegiance to the terror group as well. How important is it to find out how he became radicalized and if he was directed or just inspired by ISIS?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it's pretty important to find out how. It's even more important to find out if he was directed because you're going to want to trace that back to who is directing him. Does ISIS have people on the ground? Do they have -- do they have people on the ground, in a country other than Syria or those territories? So that would be critical.
But, you know, he has three phones, two laptops that they've recovered. They got into one phone very quickly, and I believe that helped validate some of this fealty to ISIS. They have to crack a couple of other phones and computers. But that will get them along the way to answer questions about what propaganda he was looking at, how many times he was looking at, when that intensified, whether he was communicating on a platform that might be in one of those devices, including some of the encrypted platforms where that trail might still be there. All important to know.
But, clearly, he fits the model of pretty much who ISIS targets with that propaganda, which is someone who's having money troubles, family troubles, business troubles, self-esteem problems, whose life is spiraling downward because what's the promise, Laura? Right? They say if you go with this cause, you get valor, you get belonging, you get empowerment, it fills the voids and offers what we call this loser to lion phenomenon.
COATES: Hmm. You know, you're nodding along, Jamil, when you hear that. And I have to ask, when you hear about they're seeking people out, how does one find this? I mean, to be radicalized. There are a lot of people who fit the bill, of people who have money problems, marital problems, who don't then get radicalized by ISIS, are not found by them in some way, shape or form. When you're looking to try to untangle that web, where are you going?
JAMIL JAFFER, FORMER ASSOCIATE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL TO GEORGE W. BUSH, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL SECURITY INSTITUTE AT GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY: Well, a couple of things. One, you have to look at whether he had some mental health issues. Obviously, a guy who's talking about killing his family, and that not being enough, that not being enough of a splash to get his message across. That guy, obviously, got mental health issues that go along with his marital problems, along with the financial problems, along with the radicalization.
Then you add to that, he goes -- he's probably going out and searching for content online, right? Videos on YouTube or other platforms or on websites, right? There's a lot of information available to Americans, if they want to go, find it, of all sorts of terrible varieties, including terrorist content. And so that's one of the challenges.
And then, of course, once you get into those networks, those circles, people might start pushing you content. You might be having conversations with people who might be trying to direct you or radicalize you even further.
So, we don't know today whether he was simply inspired or directed and whether he was radicalized by another individual online through communications or he just sought it out himself, but what's clear is he had the requisite troubles, as John correctly laid out, and he probably, to be candid, had some mental health issues that led him to believe it was important to kill his own family.
COATES: I mean, he had multiple layers of this attack, Pete. It was not just the truck. It was also the idea of detonating other devices. Thank God they did not get detonated. But you hear from his family. I mean, his own brother told us -- quote -- "He was very well-tempered, slow to anger, kind, soft-spoken. Something screwed him up. He's that type of person. Someone or something fogged his mind."
You hear that from his brother, of course, and they must be in shock of what has gone on. But is there a way, when you're looking to figure out what happened, to prevent this again? Obviously, he's dead, he can't be brought to justice in terms of a criminal prosecution, but can you prevent others from this sort of radicalization?
PETE LAPP, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: It's hard. The lone wolf phenomenon is really difficult because there's a radicalization that goes on, whether itself or whether others are involved. But there's a lack of leakage, if you will, in terms of your intent. I don't know how close his brother and he were or the rest of his family and everyone who's coming out who's being interviewed after the fact who knew him are saying that this is so atypical for the kind of guy that we knew him to be.
But I think when -- we don't see these leakages until it's too late. You know, it's hours before his attack when he's on Facebook and social media. You know, his intent is very clear, if you're following that. Those are really difficult, the most difficult cases for law enforcement to really assess and take an action to prevent because there's just not a lot of hints that are out there.
COATES: An important point in terms of the when they would know this. Well, John, CNN obtained a bulletin from the Homeland Security Department that had warned law enforcement about possible vehicle ramming attacks during the holidays. Was there a breakdown of some sorts in New Orleans for the security?
MILLER: You know, I think one of the problems with New Orleans in this incident is that this isn't a one-off for them.
[23:09:56]
I mean, there's crowded nights like New Year's Eve, but on Bourbon Street, every night is a party and it's often blocked to traffic, and they're used to things going on there and maintaining control.
Also, Laura, there's this flip side, right? I mean, they've had 10 shootings on Bourbon Street in the past months with multiple casualties, but that is something that, you know, New Orleans residents have learned to take in stride because crime is an issue they understand there. This was something they couldn't wrap their heads around because it was terrorism.
And clearly, there's going to be a reassessment about bollards, about blockers, about concrete block or large vehicles because it may be locking the barn door after the horse is gone, which is probably the wrong expression for a tragedy this deep, but it's a common malady, which is taking care of the problem after.
They had these barriers. They went into disrepair. Some were removed. Some were just left to rust. They were going to be replaced, but who knows when, maybe for the Super Bowl. Things were happening too slowly. There's a lack of a sense of urgency there, which will now be fixed but for all the wrong reasons.
COATES: John, thank you. I mean, the idea of there being a warning about potential vehicle ramming. You can imagine so many cities across the country preparing for the unknown. And now we know what has happened. Pete, thank you so much. John, Jamil, stay with me, and please stand by.
Tonight, the Sugar Bowl, they held a moment of silence for the 14 people who were killed on Bourbon Street. Fourteen lives cut short in the blink of an eye. Many of them, they were only in their 20s.
And tonight, we do know some of their names: Matthew Tenedorio, 18- year-old Ni'Kyra Cheyenne Dedeaux, Kareem Badawi, Reggie Hunter, Tiger Bech, Hubert Gauthreaux, Drew Dauphin, and Billy DiMaio. Their lives should and will not be forgotten. They should not.
We're also hearing people who survived the carnage on Bourbon Street. One man who used a wheelchair described to our Anderson Cooper the moment he was struck.
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JEREMI SENSKY, INJURED IN BOURBON STREET ATTACK: I didn't see anything. Like while I was hearing his shots, I was still like disoriented. And the whole time I was pretty messed up. I really didn't know what was going on. And I was just glad that I didn't get shot. Like I'm thinking the gunshots, I'm lying on the ground, I should be safe.
And then my leg was messed up. I kept messing with my leg. I went trying to figure out what's wrong with my leg. And I saw this stuff around me, which was parts of my wheelchair. So, I started scraping and trying to find my pen. I really couldn't tell what was what. So, I tried to get my pen. I wanted to use the pen. I was going to call my wife and tell her I was alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Jeremi Sensky survived. His wheelchair was destroyed. But he says he won't live in fear despite what he has experienced.
With me now, New Orleans Councilwoman Lesli Harris. Councilwoman, thank you for joining. This is unbelievable, to think of this being the start of the new year, the loss of life, the impact on not just the people but the ripple effect throughout the entire community and country. How will New Orleans help survivors and families to recover and try to get any accountability that might be out there?
LESLI HARRIS, COUNCILWOMAN, DISTRICT B, NEW ORLEANS: Well, as you know, we are a city that has gone through a lot of tragedy. We've had hurricanes and weather events. And as your panelist said, we have had other incidents on and around Bourbon Street. And we will do what we do as New Orleanians, which is join together as a community and heal and make sure that our community, the victims, the victims' families are as one.
And I know that sounds trite, but that's what we do. We are a resilient community, and we will put our arms around everybody and come together to make sure that we continue to be a united New Orleans in the face of this horrible, horrible attack.
COATES: It doesn't sound trite to me at all. I think unity is something that people crave in these tragic moments and wanting to feel like they're not alone. The second thing they look for, though, are answers as to why and how it could have been prevented. And we obtained here at CNN a bulletin from the Homeland Security Department that had warned about possible vehicle ramming attacks during the holidays. Was New Orleans aware of that one or properly prepared for something like this on New Year's Eve?
HARRIS: We have been preparing for Super Bowl since it was announced in October, and that includes Sugar Bowl, which is a big event that comes every single year, as well as Mardi Gras, which is coming up next month. So, we believe that our law enforcement was adequately prepared to defend against any sort of attacks.
[23:15:04]
We've been doing water testing, air quality testing in anticipation of the Super Bowl coming up. This was an unfortunate, unfortunate attack that I think even with the issue around the bollards could have happened no matter what because this person was dead set on attacking our great community.
And so, whether or not it happened at that intersection or at another intersection along Bourbon Street, I think this person was aiming for New Orleans for whatever reason, and I don't know that anything could have prevent -- prevented this from happening. What I will say is that --
COATES: Well, that -- excuse me, that does seem very unsettling, though, right, councilwoman, to think about the inevitability of the attack. Certainly, he seemed to be intent. But now, we know Bourbon Street is open with new security barriers that are in place. Could those not have been in place before this happened?
HARRIS: We had law enforcement stationed at that intersection. And as you know, the person who they went around on to the sidewalk around our law enforcement went about three blocks barreling down the road. But our law enforcement immediately responded. So, three officers immediately responded, ran towards the attacker, took him down, killed him. And in the process, two of those officers were wounded. But they prevented what could have been a really large-scale attack.
My point about the bollards is this: New Orleans and Bourbon Street itself is not a pedestrian area. There are pedestrians, but there are also cross streets and there aren't stations at every single cross street to prevent this. It's like any city. But this person could have gone down Canal Street. And again, I think that this person was just dead set against on wreck -- this habit that he brought on the city of New Orleans, came from Houston to do it.
COATES: Councilwoman, it's just such a tragedy to know that this has happened, but certainly, I know that you and others will work very hard to ensure that this does not repeat and that the community does lift everyone up. Thank you so much for joining us, Councilwoman Lesli Harris.
HARRIS: I appreciate you. Thank you.
COATES: Next, the final fatal moves of the driver who exploded a Cybertruck right in front of a Trump hotel in Las Vegas. What they reveal as investigators still search for a motive. And ahead, the year's first big test for Republicans. Will Speaker Johnson hold on to his gavel or lose his job?
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COATES: Tonight, a mystery on the Las Vegas trip as police search for why, why someone intentionally caused a Tesla Cybertruck to explode in front of Trump International Hotel. We have new details about that suspect. Matthew Livelsberger was an active duty, active duty Green Beret based in Germany, but he was on leave. A relative tells CNN Livelsberger was a strong supporter of President-elect Trump, praising him for helping the military.
Now, investigators say they found Livelsberger's military I.D. inside the burned-out cyber truck along with two weapons, additional fireworks, his passport, an iPhone, and a smart watch.
And police used Tesla charging stations to track Livelsberger's movements before the explosion. They say that he rented a Cybertruck in Denver on December 28th before driving through New Mexico and Arizona and arriving in Las Vegas just yesterday morning.
Now, security cameras showed the truck pulling into the front of the Trump hotel once before leaving and visiting other businesses up and down the strip. But an hour later, the truck heads back to the Trump Hotel, pulling into the valet area and parking before exploding 17 seconds later.
Now, despite all of this evidence, police are still searching for why this happened. But investigators say they're aware that a Tesla Cybertruck exploding in front of a Trump hotel, well, it raises questions for a lot of people, doesn't it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPENCER EVANS, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, FBI LAS VEGAS DIVISION: It's not lost on us that it's in front of the Trump building, that it's a Tesla vehicle, but we don't have information at this point that definitively tells us or suggests it was because of this particular ideology or that -- you know, any of the reasoning behind it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Hmm. Well, John and Jamil are back with me along with Bishop Garrison, senior fellow and adjunct professor at George Mason Law School's National Security Institute. Glad to have you here, Bishop. Thank you.
Let me begin with you, John, on this because you've got some new reporting on Matthew Livelsberger. What -- what -- what -- why would he have done this?
MILLER: Well, this is the thing that Kevin McMahill, the sheriff in Las Vegas, and Spencer Evans, the special agent in charge of that office, and their teams have been pouring over, which is get into the phones, get into the computers, get into the house.
Are there communications with radical groups or extremists, right-wing extremists, foreign extremists, left-wing extremists? And that's what they're not finding. Are there connections or communications or associations with the New Orleans suspect who blew up, who had IEDs and did the ramming attack there? That's what they're not finding.
[23:24:56]
What they are starting to see, though, are personal issues in his life, things going on in his family life that were problems for him, things going on in his army life as a special forces Green Beret, counterterrorism, counterinsurgency specialist, signs of depression, signs of sadness about long deployments and being away, talk about PTSD, about, you know, the amount of violence that they're exposed to the killing, collateral damage of non-combatant civilians who were killed. These are things that affect a lot of special operators.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
MILLER: So, they are -- as they're looking for connections between the New Orleans attack and this explosion in Las Vegas, what we're starting to see is the case is drifting apart instead of together. This could have been an organized suicide after a series of life- depressing stressors --
COATES: Hmm.
MILLER: -- and a final stressor that might have broken the camel's back where he wanted to go out literally with a bang in a symbolic location. What does that mean, Laura? Is he trying to say, these are the problems that America's most elite soldiers are facing and I want the new president to know about it? It's a bizarre way to deliver a message, and maybe that's a reach. But it's what they're looking at now along with many other things. And, you know, they're keeping an open mind because you don't know where the case is going to go.
COATES: We don't know, Bishop. We don't know what the connections, if there are any. We do know that there are red flags, maybe coincidences, but whether they will try to do anything, I don't know. But we do know this is somebody who is a Green Beret. Active duty, by the way. He had been awarded multiple medals. The ATF says, the -- "level of sophistication" is not what you'd expect from someone who has all of these sorts of accolades in training.
But tell me, I'm picking your brain here, what does it suggest to you, this correlation between all of this training and the way this all went down?
BISHOP GARRISON, SENIOR FELLOW AND ADJUNCT PROFESSOR, NATIONAL SECURITY INSTITUTE, GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY: Well, first and foremost, my heart goes out to the communities here, both New Orleans and with Las Vegas, because this creates so much tension, so much trauma for those individuals that are just trying to live their lives.
Given that we know that he was master sergeant, active duty with special forces, the operations tempo over the course of last 20 years, we talk about (INAUDIBLE), we talk about global war on terrorism, has just been so high for these individuals. So much stress.
I myself served two tours in Iraq. I served with great many special forces officers enlisted. I know just the pressures that they're going through both while they're actively in combat and then back at home. When you come back and you have some of these stressors that John kind of alluded to, the -- first things first. We need more information. We need to understand a little bit better about what was going on in his life, what might have driven him to this type of activity.
COATES: Why he was on leave.
GARRISON: Why he was on leave. Why the Trump Tower, why -- there are so many different ways that he could have gone about doing this. They could have made a bigger statement. They could have made more destruction. They could make less. They could have written an email, could have written a letter, or he could have had a more powerful explosive given his skill set. So, we just don't know.
And there are too many folks that are taking the threads of information we do have and going online and looking for some type of coordination or some type of connection between the two events that we've seen and everything else. It's just going to create more misinformation, disinformation, and more terror.
So, we just need to kind of take a breath, let law enforcement do what they need to do, and we need to understand better about his life, what was going on. But knowing the amount of stress and pressures that we have these soldiers under, special forces operators, this -- we should understand a bit more of what we can do to help that community and support them properly.
COATES: I certainly understand. I have not served, but I can appreciate the stressors. It's one thing to talk about what happened in Las Vegas versus what's happening in New Orleans. And the loss of lives. Other people who were killed as a result of it. When you look at the psychology and you think about ways in which law enforcement is trying to investigate with an eye towards deterrence, you know, what sticks out to you?
JAFFER: Yeah, I mean, look, it's hard, Laura, because you got to figure out how do you identify these people. One, how do you identify them ahead of time? To Bishop's point, how do you get them the help they need before they turn into a terrorist, in the case of Shamsud- Din Jabbar, where he's becoming radicalized, whether it's on the internet or elsewhere? How do you solve, in the case of Matthew Livelsberger, where he's going and putting himself in a truck and blowing it up with campfire gas and fireworks, right?
How do you get ahead of that? How do you prevent that from happening? How do you prevent the radicalization and the activity that might take lives of others? These are very hard things. And then, how do you harden our society against those things? How do you put the right kind of intelligence? How to identify level of terrorism?
[23:30:00]
We've had an authority for local surveillance that expired four years ago because Congress didn't act on it. We have seven -- two (ph) authorities, surveillance of four (ph) located overseas that are set to expire once again just in a few months. Congress may not authorize it. These are real challenges.
Taking those tools off the table for our law enforcement, our military, intelligence communities, is exactly the wrong thing to do. Congress has a chance to deal with that and other issues going forward.
COATES: Well, the curiosity you both speak of, what to do next, is likely result of terror, right? It makes people wonder and question and look at each other very differently. And, of course, look to Congress and other agencies to know what they can do about it. Gentlemen, thank you all so much. Up next, speaking of Congress, a former Navy SEAL turned Republican congressman, Ryan Zinke, he's here. We'll talk about these two veterans under investigation for two separate attacks on New Year's Day. And will they, won't they moment that everyone in the House is talking about. Will Speaker Johnson be voted out of the job tomorrow?
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[23:35:00]
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COATES: Just in, a law enforcement source telling CNN the FBI and local officials have recovered precursor chemicals usually used to make explosives in the Houston home of the New Orleans attacker. This as the army community tonight is rattled and stunned in the wake of the Bourbon shoot attack. and the explosion in Las Vegas. The men responsible served their country, though at different times.
And we mentioned the one behind the Vegas bomb was active duty while the veteran who attacked New Orleans had been discharged in 2020.
Joining me now, Republican congressman from Montana and former Navy SEAL, Ryan Zinke. He served in the United States Navy for 23 years. Congressman, thank you so much for joining me today.
It has been an unbelievable start to a new year. The tragedy that has ensued has been really mind-boggling for so many people. I wonder what comes to mind for you when you learned that the two men allegedly behind these two tragic events in New Orleans, in Las Vegas, they served in uniform, one active duty.
REP. RYAN ZINKE (R-MT): It is troubling. Unfortunately, this is not the first time in active duty or a former military has committed a heinous crime. You may recall, in 2002, we had the Beltway sniper.
COATES: Yeah.
ZINKE: That was an individual that was in the -- in the back of a -- of a trunk with an accomplice. Uh, 17 innocent victims were killed. And then fast forward, you know. And you look at a veteran. A veteran at some time in his life has raised his right hand, and he has given an oath to the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. So, what takes a person that has given an oath to this country and what takes a person so far out of that -- were they're willing to, you know, run over innocents or shoot innocents at a mall?
The case in Tesla, we still don't know, although he was active duty, and he was a special forces guy. That's just not a run of the mill.
COATES: Yeah.
ZINKE: There's a lot of training behind special forces. But, you know, something is going on, and I think we have to look at it. You know, what is causing, you know, this pain? COATES: What do you think is this? I mean, a solution would be the worst word to use when you're thinking about maybe deterrence in the long run, but what could be something that Congress could be doing or the government could be doing to look into whatever has led to these events?
ZINKE: You know, you look at the tone. I -- you know, when I grew up, Republican and Democrat, yeah, perhaps, but at the end of the day, you're all American.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
ZINKE: And I think we've got to focus on the greatness of our country. And whether you're on the Republican or Democrat side, I think all of us can say things aren't going swimmingly.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
ZINKE: You know, we have problems. We do have a border problem. We have an economic problem. We have a problem where young -- you know, individuals coming up get a job. You know what? Maybe a home is outside their reach. So, I think we need to focus on what's important in this country --
COATES: Sure.
ZINKE: -- the Constitution, making sure everyone has an opportunity, and kind of push the craziness out because it's causing a lot of distraction and it's preventing Congress in many cases from getting done what we should be doing.
COATES: Just to clarify, when you say border issues, you mean more broadly there's not a connection with the border issues and these particular tragedies that we've heard about. But Congress could very well be at a standstill if they do not have a speaker as of tomorrow. You know full well as a member of Congress that if there's no speaker, then --
ZINKE: Ahh!
COATES: -- a lot of things can happen. Tell me about your level of confidence when it leads to whether Speaker Johnson will retain that gavel.
ZINKE: I think the president said it best, is that Johnson is a good man. He's a good man. He's hardworking. And he's a religious man. As far as political, where he sits in the spectrum, he's the most -- probably the most conservative speaker we've ever had.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
ZINKE: But it isn't the speaker per se, it's how we've gotten there, where one or two voices can collapse the entire system.
COATES: In fact, one defector could be all -- we could derail the entire process for Speaker Johnson, right? And you have to have the majority of all those who will be voting. That means one person, one Republican could say no. And if more than that happens, that's it.
ZINKE: It has consequences beyond the vote. It means you can't get things done.
[23:40:00]
COATES: You can't certify on the 6th.
ZINKE: You can't certify the election. You can't swear new members in. But beyond that, you also are not doing your job.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
ZINKE: The reason every member is here is we represent people. And everyone in this election said, you know what? We have a better future ahead of us. We want to get things done. And these distractions, you know, prevent that. And it's not -- it's not whether one speaker is better or another. It won't change unless rules are applied, in my opinion, to the House.
COATES: Yeah.
ZINKE: Because if you're constantly breaking rules and everyone has a voice, but no one has the voice, not even the speaker, and as a body, you have to realize that you know what? Compromise is not you never compromise your values --
COATES: Yeah.
ZINKE: -- or your principles. You compromise for solution to get --
COATES: But --
ZINKE: -- things done.
COATES: But there is -- well, I don't know if you can be the voice, but he's a voice right now, and it's Thomas Massie, a congressman. And he has said when asked about the pressure to fall in line, supporting who Trump supports, who you have support. I saw the hashtag "I like Mike" as a way to support Speaker Mike Johnson. He told "The Wall Street Journal," "I don't know how to say this without cussing. If they thought I had no Fs to give before, I definitely have no Fs to give now."
Well, he has a vote he could give. He doesn't want to give it to Speaker Johnson. What does that tell you, that your colleague does not want to do that?
ZINKE: Well, I can tell you that he is here because he has constituents.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
ZINKE: He supported him. And I'm not sure his constituents are going to like this decision if he's the one that's blowing up the tracks for Donald J. Trump. And let's be clear, the reason why the Republicans have the majority is because Donald J. Trump was at the top of the ticket. The reason why many members -- remember, when you got a Donald Trump endorsement, that was like a gold standard.
And so, Donald Trump was actively involved, probably more actively involved in Congress than any president in my lifetime at the front line. He was there doing rallies, et cetera, et cetera.
So, to dismiss that and say, well, I'm not going to support my president, which is Donald Trump, nor am I going to support his agenda because his agenda cannot happen unless you have a speaker and the House is in order.
COATES: Well, we'll see how long you'll be in that voting limbo as of tomorrow. Congressman, thank you for joining us. We'll see what happens.
ZINKE: Always a pleasure.
COATES: Thank you.
Well, Trump getting in on the action, calling the House holdouts, telling them to back Mike Johnson for speaker. Is it going to work?
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[23:45:00]
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COATES: The calm before the storm on Capitol Hill. Speaker Johnson staring at the narrowest House majority in nearly a century. And he faces a razor-thin reelection vote in just a matter of hours. Now, that's even despite President-elect Trump agreeing to call potential holdouts.
I want to bring in former Democratic Congressman Joe Crowley and former communications aide to Senator Lindsey Graham, T.W. Arrighi. Nice to have you both here with me tonight. Joe, how much you miss being on the Hill knowing that tomorrow will be a kind of day for Speaker Johnson?
JOE CROWLEY, FORMER NEW YORK REPRESENTATIVE: You know, it is kind of exciting to some degree, especially in the minority. You get to watch the majority burn a little bit.
COATES: Hmm.
CROWLEY: But yeah, I mean, six years ago --
COATES: No hard feelings.
CROWLEY: Six years is a long time now. I feel -- I feel I'm getting over Congress this time.
COATES: Well, he might be doing fine, not just fine tomorrow, right? Because Speaker Johnson, he wants this to be a very quick round. But it could be longer. He has one ability to lose one person. And Massie already says no.
T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT OF PUSH DIGITAL GROUP, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS AIDE TO SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Right. Yeah, it might take a round or two. With such a thin majority, everyone has the chance to like be their own Joe Manchin. But look, the thing is Mike Johnson will be the next speaker of the House. He has Donald Trump's support. He has the support of all leadership. The fact is there's no one else who can get the necessary votes.
So, this -- you know -- and also, I would add, Massie can do everyone's -- he's known to, you know, not give an F, as he said.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
ARRIGHI: But you're staying in direct opposition to getting the Trump agenda soon, and I think that's the message that Donald Trump is giving to members of Congress right now.
COATES: Is that going to be convincing to the holdout? Trump is saying -- I mean, he didn't work for the debt ceiling.
CROWLEY: Well, I think it is going to be a little messy. I agree with T.W. on this. I think that -- in the end, I do think that Johnson does get it. You know, how long that will take me the question? They have been known to muck things up a little bit. And I think tomorrow could be another example of that just a bit. Where they could go, though? If it's not Johnson, then who? And I haven't heard a single person who wants this job, quite frankly. And who's the alternative? If there's no alternative --
ARRIGHI: Right.
CROWLEY: -- it's going to be Johnson.
COATES: It took 20-something days to get Johnson that particular seat, post-McCarthy. But there's a lot riding on this, T.W., because if you don't have a speaker and January 6th is coming up very, very soon, you can't certify the election, you can't do anything in Congress without the speaker, you can't even have the new Congress come in. They must realize the consequences.
ARRIGHI: Yeah. Look, I think everyone knows the consequences, even Massie. I think there are people who want to do a little horse trading and get a little bit more leverage with Johnson.
COATES: Like what?
ARRIGHI: Who knows? We've heard about Chip Roy. Maybe on rules committee or certain things like that. So, I can see them holding it up to get us to sweeten the pot a bit. But no one wants to relive what we did with McCarthy. That was horrible, and it will screw up. We have two years with Donald Trump in a full united Republican Congress at minimum. We can't waste time.
[23:50:00] COATES: But you know, Manu Raju, who I think has like a Murphy bed now on Capitol Hill, he should, or a plaque, he's reporting tonight that Speaker Johnson is reluctant to make any of those four-a-side deals a la McCarthy. Good strategy for him?
CROWLEY: At this point, why does he have to? As I said before, there's no alternative. We know the Democrats are going to be fairly -- very disciplined. I think that Hakeem Jeffries and Democratic Caucus will be disciplined.
COATES: You think no one is going to go vote for him?
CROWLEY: I don't see that happening at all. And I think -- I think Johnson appeals to his conference and says, listen, they united, we need to be united. And I think he wants to do that without having to make as many deals -- as few deals as possible to make that happen. I don't think he wants to be a hostage. I don't think he likes that positioning. And the least thing he can do about it -- I think that's -- that's what it will be.
COATES: It also hurt McCarthy because everyone wonders what those side deals were. He -- they were particularly clear. That was Gaetz's -- part of his issue with McCarthy. They didn't know what the weather was with transparency. Is Johnson making the right move by essentially relying on the Trump endorsement?
ARRIGHI: Yeah. By the way, oddly, I don't think it counts for much, but Gaetz actually also endorsed Mike Johnson. Yeah, now, look, this is -- people won these races, especially of the 14 who are saying that they might vote no. They got massive amounts of help from Donald Trump. And there's a mandate now to deliver on the Trump agenda. If they're going to stand in their way, the constituents of those folks are going to really cry out. So yes, by doubling down with the man who delivered a victory and a majority, yes, I think it is a great strategy.
CROWLEY: (INAUDIBLE) can make rules change. That will also make harder to challenge the speaker in the future. But the real problem, though, is if they -- if they limit him ability of minority of the Democrats to do that, that'll be very undemocratic. I don't think they should do that. Right now, my understanding is only the majority can bring a motion to vacate the chair. I think that would be a blow to our democracy, if that were to happen.
COATES: By the way, the rules, would the parliamentarian step in at some point? They're not likely to allow these different rule changes to have either a temporary speaker without the new person being thrown in or other areas as well, right?
CROWLEY: Well, the Congress could work its will. If the Congress decides that it wants to create a rule that allows for a temporary speaker or a caretaker, they can do that. I don't think there's going to be a need for that. And give a certain date, like once people are sworn in and once the elections are certified, then you have to have another vote. Congress can work its own will. The parliamentarian can only work off the rules that they make for themselves. COATES: T.W., this might be, assuming he gets that gavel again, the easiest part of the next couple months of his life. Speaker Johnson, he's got a lot ahead of him. The March deadline of the new -- the C.R. will lapse by then. He's got to make sure his caucus is happy and also appeal to Democrats as well. This is quite a daunting task.
ARRIGHI: Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, we have at least two years of a united Republican front to get this stuff done. So, let's go after the things that Republicans have been talking about. Let's get the easy wins. Let's go after help on the border and immigration.
COATES: Is it united to you right now, though?
ARRIGHI: On those issues, of course it is. Yes, I think we can build a strong Republican consensus on the border and on immigration. And then we can do it on taxes and spending. Let's get the wins where we can get it, try to build some momentum and take it from there.
COATES: Thank you both. We'll see what happens. The big question, will Speaker Johnson keep his job? Well, join CNN for special coverage of "The Vote for Speaker" live tomorrow beginning at noon Eastern. We'll be right back.
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COATES: We have breaking news out of South Korea. We learned that authorities there have now suspended the attempt to arrest their impeached president. CNN's Mike Valerio is live in Seoul right now, near President Yoon's residence. Mike, what's happening?
MIKE VALERIO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Laura, this is a month since martial law was declared by the now suspended president of a top American ally, South Korea. We're talking about suspended President Yoon Suk-yeol.
So, I'll move out of the way, show you what's happening right now. This was an attempt, Laura, by prosecutors and investigators to hold the suspended president accountable for throwing the country into chaos and declaring martial law in the late evening hours of December 3rd into December 4th.
These are all supporters of President Yoon. And the prosecutors and investigators said essentially just minutes ago, Laura, you know what? The president does not want to give himself up.
The equivalent of the South Korean Secret Service is not going to play ball here. They're not going to give up the suspended president either. So, they are temporarily calling off their arrest warrant. They could try in the next few days, Laura, to attempt to bring South Korea's suspended president in the process of impeachment in for questioning, but this development throws the whole process into chaos. Will South Korea's president be arrested? That, as of right now, is an open question, Laura.
COATES: Well, take us back to how all this started.
VALERIO: It was through martial law, December 3rd. So, the president, Yoon Suk-yeol, not getting a lot done through his agenda, Laura. So, he decides, in a move that is still being questioned and is befuddling so many of us, declares martial law in order to arrest his political rivals from the other side of the aisle because, Laura, this country has a history of authoritarian rule, going back into the not-so-recent past. We're talking about 1987, really tamping down in 1988.
A whole multitude of people rise up and say, hey, you got to be kidding me. We are not having martial law again. So, martial law is canceled after only six hours.
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Fast forward a month, this is the attempt by prosecutors to say, what you did is against the law, outside of presidential powers. We got take you in for questioning. They tried to do that. This was a seven- hour back and forth, Laura, throughout the day here in Central Seoul, South Korea, and we just found out that prosecutors said, you know what? We don't want anybody to get hurt. There are so many protesters here. We're calling off that effort, at least for now.
COATES: Mike Valerio in Seoul for us, thank you so much. And thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
