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Laura Coates Live

Trump To Be Sentenced Before His Inauguration; Mike Johnson Remains As House Speaker; No Link Between New Orleans And Las Vegas Violence; Surgeon General Calls For Cancer Warnings On Alcoholic Drinks; Exonerated Rosa Jimenez Receive Lifesaving Kidney Donation. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired January 03, 2025 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

CHRIS T. PERNELL, REGENT-AT-LARGE, AMERICAN COLLEGE OF PREVENTIVE MEDICINE: I'm the public health physician here to safe versus safer sex, right? We talk about safer sex. And so when I want you to think about drinking, you wouldn't think about as little as possible.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Last thing, we got about 20 seconds. A warning on alcohol bottles saying this could be next. Is that the right move in your mind?

JORDAN KAYE COLVIN, POLITICAL CONSUTANT: I think that people are going to have to make individual decisions for themselves. I think much like cigarettes. I think the stigma behind things. I think generation --

PHILLIP: So let's have those warnings.

COLVIN: -- they have that -- make all the ugly warning label.

PHILLIP: Yeah.

COLVIN: I think it's generational. I think Emily and Paris and talking about (inaudible) was probably a more influence on it than the label.

PHILLIP: Dr. Chris Pernell, thank you very much, and thank everyone else for joining us. Thank you for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, the sentencing before the inauguration. The controversial move by a New York judge to formally make President-elect Donald Trump a convicted felon.

Plus, forget all the what-ifs. The gavel still belongs to that man, Speaker Johnson. In a single round, he fended off defectors in his own party with an assist from Trump. But now, can he return the favor?

And dramatic new revelations about the troubled veterans behind the separate attacks in Las Vegas and New Orleans. What their writings are now showing about their mindset and also their motive. As we hear from a Bourbon Street eyewitness who unbelievably was not only hit by the gunman's truck, but also shot in the foot. Well, she's alive to share her story with us tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

Well, January 10th, everyone, one week from today, go ahead and mark that down on your calendars, because it's going to be one hell of a controversial day that will go down in history, because that day is when President-elect Donald Trump will face a New York judge to be sentenced as a convicted felon. That's almost 10 months after a jury found him guilty of 34 felony counts, and just 10 days before he takes the oath of office for his second term.

Now in doing so, Trump will become America's first convicted felon to serve as president. Now we knew that would be the case when the election hit and you already had the convictions, right? But what we didn't know was whether he would face any jail time or when he would ultimately be sentenced now or after the end of the term.

Well tonight, we have an answer. It's looking like no jail time, no fine, no penalty. Judge Juan Merchan ruling today that he is upholding Trump's hush money conviction, but he won't punish him beyond that description of a felon, at least not through any jail time or even an imposed fine. We legal people call it unconditional discharge, but think of it as a get out of jail for free card. It means you're off the hook. And the free part is the no-fine part.

Now remember Trump, he spent more than 20 days in that Manhattan courtroom before being found guilty on those 34 counts of falsifying business records. Prosecutors said that he did that to hide hush money payments that he made to Stormy Daniels during the 2016 election. Now, Trump, for his part, he denies that he ever slept with Daniels. But Manhattan D.A. Alvin Bragg got his conviction from 12 jurors who thought otherwise about the falsified records part of it, though it appears he didn't get any punishment.

Judge Merchan writing, "a sentence of unconditional discharge appears to be the most viable solution to ensure finality and allow defendant to pursue his appellate options." Ensure finality. Remember that. I'll explain what that means, or what it could mean in just a moment. Well, Judge Merchan also gave Trump the option of appearing in person or virtually for the sentencing.

Now, there's no word on what he actually will do, but as you can imagine, he's pretty mad because he wants the whole thing tossed out. Trump wrote, "This illegitimate political attack is nothing but a rigged charade." He also called Merchan a radical partisan. Well, joining me now, my friend Elie Honig, CNN's senior legal analyst and former assistant USA for the southern -- SDNY. Almost called the sovereign district as you often refer to it, Elie. I forgot the SDNY instead.

All right, Elie, you and I predicted the idea there wasn't gonna be much of a penalty if any at all, but there's no jail time, no community service, no fines as we know it now, nothing. What do you think of this decision given you didn't think the case should have been brought in the first place?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's an unsatisfying outcome, I think, for certainly the district attorney, but I think it points up ultimately that this was a case of prosecutorial overreach. I don't think there's any real way around that at this point.

[23:04:57]

I think Alvin Bragg would defend this case by saying he looked carefully at the facts and the law and he believed it was necessary to impose accountability. And I should say, as I always do, Alvin and I were former colleagues at the aforementioned Southern District of New York. He was a colleague and a friend.

But I think the vast majority of the American public now views this case as I do, which is that it was a colossal, world-historic episode of prosecutorial overreach. He took this case which the Feds had rejected, which the FEC had rejected, which his predecessor as D.A. had chosen not to charge and later said would have been a huge problem.

He crafted a charge against Donald Trump that has never been brought against any other person in American history. He took an expired New York state misdemeanor, piled another expired New York state misdemeanor on top of it, and piled a federal election fraud violation in state court on top of that. Nobody has ever been charged or convicted that way before. And so now the ultimate result of this, Laura, legally is essentially a big fat zero, and politically, I think it backfired badly on Alvin Bragg and on Democrats.

COATES: Clearly, Bragg would disagree, and of course the prosecutors who endeavor to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. But let's set aside for a moment the views you have on this issue and what the judge actually said. The judge didn't view it in the same way. The judge's rationale was looking essentially at the fact that this is a president-elect, but also obviously looking at the balance he'd have to strike between how to actually get accountability in the form of financial payment, one, or also to hold him accountable versus jail time.

His decision, as you know, Elie, he considered the immunity argument and the DOJ's policy of not prosecuting a sitting president, but that the idea of trying to preserve the finality of it. That statement I think people are kind of scratching their heads about. What does he mean to preserve the finality of it, given that there will be appeals and there are ongoing appeals here?

HONIG: Yeah, so one thing Judge Merchan said in his opinion, which I think is spot on, is nobody really knows. We've never been in this situation before with somebody weeks away from becoming president and can that person be sentenced? And I think in light of that, Judge Merchan reached a reasonable outcome, which is let's try to move this thing as far along as we can.

And in fact, by actually sentencing Donald Trump next week, assuming it goes off as planned, that actually will enable Donald Trump's legal team, if they so choose to pursue an appeal, to appeal on the exact basis that I just laid out. You can't charge someone with a federal campaign violation in state court. And I think they have a pretty decent chance of winning. So by getting Donald Trump sentenced, what you do is put that chapter

of this case behind us and allow Donald Trump, he's really doing Trump's team a favor in a sense of saying, if you do want to pursue your constitutional appeal while you're president, you can go ahead and do it now.

COATES: Well, that's the idea. Preserving finality is a bit of an exercise in futility if you have appeal still pending. It's like he's trying to move it along to get to that next stage of things. Look, he has told Trump, you can either show up in person or virtually. Now, you and I both know that means there's no chance, as he's indicated, which is odd in and of itself, that he's not going to set him back. He's going to give his -- show his hand early on. But the idea of holding it even remotely, that strikes me as particularly odd to give the choice, even knowing that he's not going to set him back.

HONIG: Yeah, it is very, very rare for a judge to impose sentencing in any case when the person's not physically there in front of them. In fact, most of the rules and laws say the person has to be physically present unless, as you note, Laura, in rare instances where the judge does not intend to impose prison time. I actually think this was a pretty smart accommodation by Judge Merchan because Trump's main complaint here is you can't take me as president-elect days away from taking office in the midst of transition and impose the burden of me having to come in and be sentenced.

And so Judge Merchan has said essentially, fine, you want to do it by Zoom, we can do it by Zoom. And so I think he sort of undermined Donald Trump's ability to go to the federal courts and say, hey, federal courts, you have to block this sentencing from going forward, because it's too much of a burden on me. Hard to make that argument when you can just Zoom in for it.

COATES: And remember, he had to be in the courtroom because of a criminal matter. He did not have to be there when it came to the E. Jean Carroll civil matter. Instead, Ellie, we'll see what the jurors think about this sort of result in the end. Elie Honig, thank you so much.

HONIG: Thanks, Laura.

COATES: Well, joining me now on the political fallout, CNN's senior political commentator and former Special Assistant to President George W. Bush, Scott Jennings is here, and former Obama White House Senior Director Nayyera Haq as well. Good to see you both, my friends. Scott, I'll begin with you. During the campaign, these court issues, they actually were pretty helpful to Trump politically.

In fact, many believe the tide changed when it was even filed as a criminal charge against him, people started to lean in more. But now that he has won, does the next set of events even matter in terms of what the judge will do?

[23:09:55]

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, I think it matters because it's another reminder that radical Democrat political activists abuse the criminal justice system in New York all to create a political talking point. Look, Elie is exactly right, our legal analyst here. This would have never been charged this way if it weren't Donald Trump and he weren't running for president. He should have never been charged this way. He should have never faced this.

It was all done so they can call him a convicted felon during the campaign which of course they succeeded at. What they miscalculated is that the American people new from the get-go that it was partisan politics and they soundly rejected this in November. So Trump, I guess is going to get one more bite at the apple here to make the point that these Democrats in New York elected Alvin Brag, elected Merchan, elected -- these people are elected by the people and they took their jobs in public service and used them for political ends instead of using all of their time to throw the bad people in New York, which there are plenty of them on the streets, in jail.

That's the real lasting impact of this, the abuse of the system for political purposes when New York City is descending into a hellhole right now.

COATES: Well, call me the former prosecutor here, Nayyera, on this point. I don't know that I can bridge the gap immediately, as my two colleagues have, to suggest that the pure motivation was a political result. I understand prosecutorial discretion leaves many people wanting more information as to the why they choose some cases and not others. But politically, as we mentioned, I mean, there are a lot of Democrats who wanted some sort of consequence, truth be told, and they're not getting it here. Should Democrats even approach this politically, given the concerns raised by Scott and others?

NAYERRA HAQ, FORMER OBAMA WHIT HOUSE SENIOR DIRECTOR: Well, there are 34 convictions against now president-elect Trump. That's not the focus simply on the Alvin Bragg in the New York case. It does not cover the entire history of impunity that Donald Trump has gotten away with, specifically when it came to intervention in the election. Now, the law, as you all know, does not move quickly, and it certainly did not move quickly in Donald Trump's case, despite the fact that he was impeached twice.

So there are many records here that Donald Trump sent. I just doubt that these are the ones that he really wanted to be setting at this point. Be that as it may, he is going to have to do some community service. He's going to be the next president of the United States. And I have to take all of this --

COATES: That is community service. You're right about that.

HAQ: -- all of this divisive political rhetoric and he'll have to now take it forward and make policy and actually bring people together if not bring them together try to move something forward in a very, very fractured America. That is going to be his legacy not how dirty or how political the campaign has been.

COATES: Let's talk about that. I like the way you phrase it Nayerra, community service as of sorts, Scott, on this point because the person and the vehicle way to get a lot of his agenda done is going to be through Congress and also through Speaker Mike Johnson, who has retained the gavel.

On the very first ballot, after two Republicans went up flipping their votes, some in the caucus, by the way, saw that as a message to Johnson. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKONWN: The Speaker realizes that he needs to listen to the conservative folks, to the base.

REP. DUSTY JOHNSON (R-SD): We want to make sure that this is honestly a collaborative environment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Okay, so getting the gavel, retaining the gavel, now getting things done, Scott. Was this the easiest hurdle that he'll have to face now in the next couple months to two years?

JENNINGS: I don't know, hard to say, but I think the outcome today should remind Republicans that in a closely divided chamber, when you barely have a majority at all, the only way to get things done is to stick together. And ultimately, all Republicans, except for one, did come together to get over this initial hurdle. They can't do anything else in Congress until they elect a speaker.

The fact they did it on the first ballot after Donald Trump endorsed Mike Johnson and then intervened with a couple of the holdouts, that ought to tell you how much, in some ways, easier Mike Johnson's job is going to be over the next few months than it was previously. Having Trump in the White House does help smooth out the road here. Now, when they start talking about taxes and different tax provisions, and we start talking about immigration laws and energy and all the things Donald Trump wants to do, I'm certain Johnson's going to have to manage what's going to be some unruly people.

But having Trump sitting right there behind you, willing to put his shoulder to the wheel does give you an extra amount of leverage to bring these people on board. So I hope Johnson is successful. He's a good guy. He's in politics for all the right reasons. He did a good job after unexpectedly getting it, you know, before.

There's going to be a lot of days where I'm certain he's going to look up and regret his life choices, but he's in the right place at the right time and he's going to do a good job for Trump and getting over this hurdle today allows them to begin to move that agenda for. I hope they pass some bills between now and January 20th, if Trump may be could sign in as soon as he takes the oath of office.

COATES: Well, we'll see if they move as quickly as Nayerra has suggested.

[23:14:57] Government does not run at all but let me ask you a final question, Nayerra, Republican Congressman Ralph Norman who initially voted against Speaker Johnson before changing his vote told CNN that Trump called him while he was playing golf, and the last-minute call obviously seemed to work this time. But if Johnson only requires Trump's twisting of the arms, how successful will his tenure be, given that extremely tight margin?

HAQ: They're going to have to at some point work with Democrats to be able to pass some sort of legislation on exactly the hot bun issues that Scott described. And so immigration, taxation, Trump's taxes expire, his tax cuts expire this year. These are not issues that Americans and even Congress have managed to navigate easily. So President Trump's going to have to make a lot of phone calls to get his agenda passed.

COATES: Well, we'll see how many phone calls in the golf course it will take. Thank you both so much.

JENNINGS: Thanks Laura.

COATES: Look, there's a new worrying piece of information that's coming out about the New Year's Day attack in New Orleans. Authorities finding the attacker used some kind of a rare organic compound that's actually never before been seen in the United States for the explosive devices that he ultimately planted. And now of course investigators and we all want to know, how'd he get it?

Plus, police reveal a possible motive behind that Cybertruck bombing in Las Vegas. The suspects own words, I'll bring you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

COATES: Tonight, a new and definitive statement from law enforcement. Now, they say there is no link at all between the attack in New Orleans and the explosion in Las Vegas. But we are getting more information about both of those incidents.

In New Orleans, officials say the attacker used a rare organic compound that was not previously ever seen in this country in the explosive devices that were placed in the French Quarter before driving down Bourbon Street. And investigators say Shamshud Din-Jabbar set fire to the short-term rental that he was staying at to destroy evidence which ATF agents say included possible bomb-making material.

Now tonight, his brother in a brand new interview that he last saw -- said that he last saw Jabbar six months ago and there were no signs of radicalization.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDUR JABBAR, BROTHER OF SHAMSUD-DIN JABBAR: Everything was just how he had always been with me and around the rest of his family, you know, full of love, well-mannered, well-tempered, helpful. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Meanwhile, in Las Vegas, authorities releasing this new angle of the explosion inside a Tesla Cybertruck outside of that Trump Hotel. Video shows Matthew Livelsberger at a Tesla charging station en route to Vegas. Police revealing that he kept a log on his phone of the last 10 days of his life, even detailing buying guns. Investigators say Livelsberger had been recently diagnosed with depression and left behind writing saying the explosion was not a terrorist attack, but a wake-up call to America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DORI KOREN, ASSISTANT SHERIFF, LAS VEGAS METROLPOLITAN POLICE: He says, fellow servicemembers, veterans, and all Americans, time to wake up. We are being led by weak and feckless leadership who only serve to enrich themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: The police in Las Vegas stress that they believe Livelsberger acted alone. With me now, retired Lieutenant General Russell Honore and Shawn Turner, former communications director for U.S. National Intelligence at the office of the Director of National Intelligence. Shawn, let me begin with you here. I want to talk more about that rare compound that was discovered in the New Orleans terror attack. What will investigators look to determine how he actually got that?

SHAWN TURNER, FORMER DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS, U.S. NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Yeah, you know, this really piqued my interest, Laura, from an intelligence perspective. One of the things that we know about individuals when they become radicalized is that they will go to great lengths to try to get materials, the resources that they need to carry out attacks.

And so I think the approach here is going to be to follow the breadcrumbs to understand not only what this rare compound is, but where it came from. How was this individual not only able to acquire it, but how was he able to get it here into the United States? I think it's interesting that the reporting suggests that this is something that has not been seen here in the United States, but it's clearly something we are familiar with.

So the investigation will tell us whether or not he really tried to understand whether or not he could actually get this here either through on a flight or across the border or something along those lines. But this really does sort of focus on that broader issue of security right now, all the things that these individuals will go through to be able to achieve their objectives.

COATES: And of course, how long ago he got it to figure out the planning and the premeditation of all of this. General Honore, let me come to you on this. Does the discovery raise the specter that this attack was possibly being directed by ISIS and not just inspired by the terror group? How do you see it? RUSSELL HONORE, RETIRED U.S. ARMY: I'm going to go with what the FBI

said, inspired at this point in time until they make that direct connection. They have a lot of his electronics and there's a lot of forensic work still to be done. Let's wait on that. But he's a suicide bomber. He is -- a mission, in ISIS's playbook, he's -- as an affiliate if not a member, is to kill until he is killed.

[23:24:53]

And he performed that mission according to what the ISIS guidebook when you go into as a suicide bomber as he did, with a 6,000-pound truck, with IEDs planted. So as much destruction as you can until you're killed, the good news is the police were there to engage him with gunfire because even more people could have been killed. And to do it in a celebratory way where you get the biggest amount of attention. He could have done the same thing on Canal Street and killed as many people with the weapons he had. He chose to use Bourbon Street because it's symbolic.

The same thing with the bomb in Vegas, it's symbolic to do it in the front of the Trump hotel. Both of these are veterans and in one case, active duty. I just remind Americans that we lose 20 veterans a day to suicide. Both of these ends up being suicide bombers. On any given day, the last 24 hours, we lost 20 veterans to suicide. These are associated with crime --

COATES: Particularly a haunting statistic --

HONORE: -- and it's happening constantly.

COATES: General, you're right.

HONORE: It is happening right now. We hear the Surgeon General talking about alcohol, but nobody talks about this. It's a hidden topic in American discourse.

COATES: Point well taken. I mean, CNN had obtained a 2019 report, General, which strongly recommended that New Orleans immediately upgrade the barrier system in the French Quarter. Now, the group behind that said he says the attack could have been prevented. I want to listen to what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON AVIV, CEO, INTERFOR INTERNATIONAL: This type of attack is absolutely avoidable. There have been over 200 vehicular attacks in the past 25 years around the world, and each one of them can be avoided. But at the end of the day, all you really need is to deploy a simple device, such as an archer barrier, on a sidewalk or in the path of where a potential vehicle-borne attack would come from.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I'd like you to respond to that general.

HONORE: I don't necessarily agree with it. We've had suicide bombers in Iraq and Afghanistan with units fully deployed with all the combat equipment and be rammed by or used IEDs against. Once the attacker is committed to jihad, to give up their life, that attack will happen. I don't necessarily agree with him that would have been avoided. Again, you got Bourbon Street locked, Canal Street, Tchoupitoulas, all of them with hundreds of people on it.

A determined suicide bomber will have a way to get through. Many a times we're able to stop them if they have a fingerprint and they're in a network, but he's alone. It's hard to stop them, Laura.

COATES: Well, Shawn, let me ask you this, given, thank you, that proposition. There is new information separately about the driver and the Tesla Cybertruck explosion. The police are saying that Matthew Livelsberger wrote the U.S. was, quote, "terminally ill and headed toward collapse." This is a Green Beret. This is an active duty member. How does he go down this path?

TURNER: Yeah. Yeah, you know, this is a more challenging case than the case in New Orleans, whether it comes to understanding the motive. I mean, look, we're talking about someone who is a Master Sergeant, an E-8 in the army. This is someone who spent the last two decades of his life serving in uniform in various capacities. So when we look at the, you know, the comments, you know, look at what he said here, clearly this is someone who understood and had a sense of what's happening in country from a national security perspective and what some of the threats are to this country.

But what we don't see here clearly, Laura, is we don't see someone who felt like life had them in a pressure cooker and that the walls were closing in. And when we talk to people, we see someone who, yeah, he had some concerns, but he didn't have any particular animus against President Trump. He didn't have any animus against Elon Musk. He clearly is someone who recently became a father. So, this one is a little more challenging, but I do think I find it very interesting that he went to great efforts to say this is not a terrorist attack.

When we think about the training that this individual has and the damage that he could have done with explosives. The fact that we had fireworks and we had something that while it harmed people, it certainly did not kill as many people as it didn't kill anyone. That tells me that this one was much more about a statement and about someone who may have really just sort of looked at the direction that we're going in this country and had real concerns about it and wanted to make a case for it.

COATES: Startling as we find and ask the question why. Obviously, law enforcement wants to know how can they prevent in the next instance as well. Thank you both.

[23:29:59]

Next, she says that she was blessed to only be shot in the foot. An Alabama mom who was celebrating the New Year on Bourbon Street only to be hit by the truck and then shot, joins us next.

And later, just in time for what they call Dry January, the Surgeon General says we need cancer warnings now on alcohol. But what kind of label would actually work? Our guest tonight says she has just the one.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

President Biden is set to visit New Orleans on Monday to show support for the victims from Wednesday's terror attack.

[23:35:00]

He'll be seeing memorials along Bourbon Street like this one, showing the names of the 14 killed written in chalk. What they all went through was horrific, I mean, you've seen the videos. You've seen the pictures of the bloody aftermath. But now you're about to hear what it was like from someone who was not only there, but barely survived. My next guest was not only hit by the gunman speeding truck, but was also shot in the foot.

With me now, Alexis Scott-Windham. Alexis, I'm so glad that you're here with us, and I cannot believe what you have had to endure. Can you just take us back to what you even remember from that night? What happened to you?

ALEXIS SCOTT-WINDHAM, ALABAMA MOM SHOT AND HIT BY TRUCKK IN NEW ORLEANS TERROR ATTACK: Still (inaudible). The night was going really good. It was a great New Year's. It was a great way to bring it in. Until around, I'll say -- we stopped in front of a pizza place around 3:00. We went in to use the bathroom and stuff. We came out like I'll say, 3:12. And when we came out, we were trying to figure out what we were going to eat. And by that time it was like 3:15.

So, by the time we figured all that out, by the time we heard a noise that went boom, boom, boom. So we looked to our left and we see the white truck. He was coming towards us. He was halfway on the sidewalk and halfway on the street. And he was just running through the poles of the little establishment on that side of the street.

COATES: Yeah.

SCOTT-WINDHAM: Yeah, he was coming towards us. So, I'm thinking he's a drunk driver at the time. But as he getting closer, he's getting faster and faster. And he's like, he's trying to actually hit people. So that's when I tried to step out the way and he ended up catching my back leg. That's how I fell. And that's when I tried to get back up.

COATES: Yeah.

SCOTT-WINDHAM: And when I got up, I noticed I couldn't run.

COATES: Oh my god.

SCOTT-WINDHAM: So I just, I tried to limp. But as I was getting up, that's when I started seeing the bodies on the side of me. It was people, people deceased right on the side of me. I couldn't do nothing but thank Jesus. I was just telling the Lord, thank you, thank you Jesus. Just let me make -- just let me make it out of here, let me make it home.

COATES: Could you have a one -- you have a one-year-old little girl as well. I can't imagine what was going through your mind as a mother thinking about how -- what happened. But then I understand you finally made it to the hospital and you didn't even realize at that point that you had also been shot until then. When you realized that, and that this was a terror attack, what'd you think?

SCOTT_WINDHHAM: So when I realized it, I was really blown (ph) because I didn't even feel it go in. Because when I got hit, I just dropped to the ground. I thought I had just broken an ankle. But when they had -- came to the hospital and they was telling me about everything that was going on, the police, when they came to interview me, had like one last interview came in, he was like, explaining to me, he was like, we think this is planned, but we got him.

COATES: Wow.

SCOTT-WINDHAM: I was just relieved that they got him because when I was seeing that people come in through the emergency room, it was people who entered way worse than me.

COATES: You still have the bullet in your foot. You're still -- there's still fractures, multiple fractures as well. What are they telling you about your recovery?

SCOTT-WINDHAM: Oh, in two weeks I would have to go get a checkup with an orthopedic. And they're going to check my fractures and they're going to check the bullet on the side of my foot. They're going to see where the bullet -- if the bullet moved.

COATES: What was it like when you got back to your one-year-old and held her? Because I can only imagine what was going through your head to be alive.

SCOTT-WINDHAM: I feel complete. It just -- it just felt great. Like it just warmed my heart. When I saw her, she gave me a big hug.

COATES: She's a beautiful little girl. I can't imagine how one day you'll try to explain any of this, if any of us can explain what's going on. But we're so glad that you are here and that you're sharing your story with us because I think so many people are just trying to make sense of this. Can I ask you really quickly, when you saw him driving, could you see his face?

SCOTT-WINDHAM: No, not at all. He has lights off.

COATES: So you didn't even know who was in the car, how many people, and just thinking about what that must have been like, just terrifying, Alexis. I wish you well. Thank you so much for sharing with me today, and just go hug your little girl, okay?

[23:40:02]

SCOTT-WINDHAM: Okay, thank you. COATES: Thank you, Alexis. Well, you already know big tobacco has

cancer warnings on its cigarettes. Is it time for big alcohol to do it too? Well, the Surgeon General tonight is making the case and our next guest is ready to explain just how that might work.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Tonight, the U.S. Surgeon General delivering a pretty stark message. Alcohol consumption can increase your cancer risk, warning that even small amounts can cause the deadly disease.

[23:45:03]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVEK MURTHY, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: The majority of Americans do not know about this link between alcohol and cancer. Even drinking within the current guideline limits, one drink a day for women, two drinks a day for men, we see an increased risk of cancer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Alcohol is the third leading preventable cause of cancer in the United States. So what Dr. Vivek Murthy's call for action? He says that cancer should be clearly labeled on drinks that Americans consume. I want to bring in a public health researcher currently studying how warning labels on alcohol products might be effective in helping consumers make better health choices. Assistant professor in the Department of Health Behavior at the University of South Carolina Chapel Hill Dr. Marissa Hall joins me now.

Dr. Hall, thank you for joining. The idea of this being the third cause, leading cause, is just stunning to so many people. The current alcohol warning, it cautions that potential lifelong problems could happen if consumed during a pregnancy and highlights the danger of the driving under influence. But now juxtapose that to your proposed warning that would underscore how drinking alcohol causes seven different types of cancer. Why would yours be more effective?

MARISSA HALL, UNC GILLINGS SCHOOL OF GLOBAL PUBLIC HEALTH: What a great question and thank you for covering this important topic. We were really excited to see the Surgeon General's report today. It's very important information to get out to the public that alcohol causes seven types of cancer. But we do know that fewer than half of Americans know about this link and wearing labels are a great way to actually make that information salient to consumers and available on the product exactly at the point of purchase.

And so you may notice the few differences with the labels that are currently on alcohol compared to the potential warning that Congress could consider. There's a few --

COATES: One second, for example, just so you know, I mean, you said the (inaudible) is with you. For those who might not have a bottle of wine handy as I seem to in my studio right now, here is the front of the bottle, right? Then you look on the back of it, it's where the warning is. It's pretty tiny. It blends in with the text, right, on the very wee bottom of what it looks like. So what would be the better way to display it that people could actually see it? And what would it say?

HALL: The first thing that would need to change was that warning label would need to be on the front of the package. Consumers are not as likely to notice that they have to pick up the product and try it around. And we know from cigarette pack warnings that over 120 countries around the globe require warning labels to be on the front of cigarette packages. So we have a strong precedent for this. This is not the case for alcohol. So it goes really unnoticed being on the back.

Another big change in addition to the (inaudible) to the front would be to add some kind of an icon or a picture to the warning label. We have many, many studies and experimental studies, reviews that show that adding these images to warning labels makes them more effective. And so just as an example, this kind of a yellow caution symbol icon, we have several studies showing that this helps attract more attention and also convey information and risk to consumers more effectively than the text alone.

And then of course, the content of the message is different here. The warning label has not changed in the United States for over 35 years. It's a very long time we've been exposed to the information about the risk around pregnancy and driving. Of course, those are really important, but many consumers know that. What they don't know, or at least over half of Americans don't know about, is this (inaudible) for cancer.

COATES: It strikes me as part of what happened with big tobacco as well, to change the culture of what it entails to fight against human behavior as well.

HALL: Yeah, absolutely. We see many benefits of warning labels. So one is the sort of cultural and normative shift, and it really helps kind of convey those norms at the population level. Another major benefit is of course that the warning labels can inform consumers and simply communicate knowledge, whether or not people change their behavior or the ability to do so. And then third, we do see more studies across tobacco, alcohol, and also sugar sweetened beverages that warning labels do actually change behavior, not for everyone, but across the population as a whole and lead people to make healthier choices.

COATES: This is truly fascinating. I do note that we just learned that South Korea has a label warning about liver cancer. Ireland will include a cancer warning starting next year. Of course, Congress in this country is the only people who can actually mandate it. I wonder if they will follow suit hearing what we have discussed tonight. And of course, from Dr. Murthy. Dr. Hall, thank you so much.

HALL: Thank you.

[23:49:57]

COATES: Well, up next, an incredible and life-saving gesture from a "Laura Coates Live" viewer. One who saw our story about a woman who was freed after being wrongfully imprisoned for 18 years. Stick around to hear this one. You won't regret it. I promise.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: You know, just about a year ago, we told you about the story of Rosa Jimenez. She spent nearly 18 years in a Texas prison, wrongfully convicted of murdering a 21-month-old that she was babysitting. Rosa was released from prison in 2021 and was fully exonerated in August of 2023.

[23:55:00]

But it turned out that was only the beginning of what would become a battle to save her life. She developed stage four kidney disease while she was in prison. And now a free woman, she would need a kidney donor just to live. Here's part of my conversation with Rosa about her struggles last January.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSA JIMENEZ, EXONERATED GRANDMOTHER WHO RECEIVED LIFESAVINGH KIDNEY DONATION: I moved to New York to find a kidney, but so far, it's no luck on that kidney. We're praying that somebody can be touched and be willing to help me to live my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, I'm so happy to say that Rosa's prayers were answered. She got that new kidney in September in New York City, and the donor turned out to be a man from Colorado who had watched Rosa's interview right here on "Laura Coates Live." I caught up with Rosa a few days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Rosa, it's so good to see you. You are out of the hospital. How are you feeling?

JIMENEZ: I'm feeling great. I have a bunch of energies. I tell my wife that every morning I wake up with a new energy. Like I'm -- I tell her, let's go, let's go somewhere, let's do something, let's -- even if it's just for a ride, we just literally -- I just want to go. Sometimes she's coming back from work and she's like, I'm tired, well, I'm not tired, I have energy, so you have to take me somewhere, no matter where, even to the corner store, just take me, let's do something.

COATES: Oh, and that makes me feel so great to hear that and think about all that you've been through and then to have the opportunity to have that kind of new lease on life. You were wrongfully accused, wrongfully convicted. You were exonerated. And I know that last time we spoke, you just wanted the opportunity to live your life the way you wanted to. And this person, this man who donated his kidney to you, what do you want to say to him? JIMENEZ: His name is Chris and he's from Colorado. He's a love -- dog

lover just like I and I don't have no words that can express my gratitude and how blessed I am that God put us in the same path. I'm so grateful that he donate to me a part of his body. And I do want to tell him thank you. Thank you for everything. Thank you for giving me a second chance or a third chance for me living my life, being here, feeling amazing, have so much energy.

You know, I have talked to my wife and me and my wife agreed that if I wouldn't have this kidney, I wouldn't last another five years. My health was deteriorating so fast, so bad and he saved my life. Chris saved my life.

COATES: That is just so beautiful to think about. And you and I have talked about this before, the idea that you never know the angels that walk among us who, you know, I say, but for the grace of God go I, in that moment to hear your story, to be so touched by it, and then to donate the kidney. I'm just so moved by what has happened.

JIMENEZ: Can I tell you something?

COATES: Yeah, please.

JIMENEZ: I was telling my wife that -- the other day I was telling her that when I got out -- when I went inside prison, I remember me telling myself, because I used to hear all these people gathering together, inmates, and talk about their stories, about their lives. And a lot of people had trouble, a lot of people have visit things, they experienced things and I was only 20 years old, literally a kid. And I didn't experience nothing. I didn't know how to swim; I didn't know how to ride a bike.

But then I told my wife now like the day that I die I don't want to have those regrets like, oh, I have all the -- I have a new kidney. I got out of prison but I didn't do this or I didn't do that. And here I am probably dying but when that time comes, I want to be like I did it all because all these people made it possible for me. Thank God.

[24:00:00]

COATES: What an inspirational story and what a pleasure it is to get to know you, Rosa Jimenez, and to hear your story and to see your smile now is the best thing I could hope for. Thank you so much for being with us today. We're glad to see you.

JIMENES: Thank you, Laura. Thank you for everything.

COATES: Hey, thank you all for watching. Anderson Cooper 360 is next.