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Laura Coates Live

CNN Reports On Trump's Trade War; China Hit Brakes On TikTok Deal Because Of Tariffs; DHS Defends Immigration Arrest Caught on Camera. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 04, 2025 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, good evening, everyone. I'm Laura Coates. And tonight, President Trump's tariffs, they are bringing more chaos, eating further into the 401(k)s of millions of Americans, sending markets deeper into the red. And now, the bears are coming out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Stocks falling off a cliff for a second straight session and closing right about at the lows.

LESTER HOLT, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: We're coming on the air with breaking news about the economy and another brutal day on Wall Street. The market is tanking right now.

UNKNOWN: The story of the hour steep selling again today. The Dow entered correction and the Nasdaq has fallen into bear market territory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Brutal isn't even the right word for it, is it? All three of the major indexes dropped more than 5% today. And that, by the way, that's in addition to yesterday's huge plunge. One high-profile trader describing just how unprecedented all of this really is and what this means especially for people who are closer to retirement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER, NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: You know, you have to look at it as a mini-crash. Without any question. Basically, the average person out there --

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Yes.

TUCHMAN: -- who is thinking about retiring in the next --

QUEST: Yes.

TUCHMAN: -- couple of years, who say eight weeks ago was looking at their portfolio, so many percent -- double-digit percentage higher, going, you know what? Now, I can finally retire. There's no explanation to this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: America went through an operation. Remember when Trump claimed that? Well, the recovery isn't looking too good right now, is it? And it might be because China, well, they just punched the wound. It's matching the new reciprocal tariff from Trump by slapping a 34% tariff on all U.S. products. You heard that right. Thirty-four percent. Now, I'm assuming this isn't the prognosis Trump was looking for. Right?

In just a minute, we'll have Anthony Scaramucci AKA "The Mooch" go up against Kevin O'Leary AKA "Mr. Wonderful" to debate Trump's tariff gamble -- and gamble indeed it is -- and, of course, what happens next.

Now, you out there might be wondering, what was Trump doing during all this market upheaval? Well, he wasn't at the White House glued to the television screens, watching the markets or huddling with advisers, it seems. No. He was -- he was playing golf. And Maggie Haberman is telling us why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES: I think, long ago, he stopped caring about certain optics, and he has made very clear during this presidency, he's going to do what he wants. He is not messaging this in a way that suggests that he understands what average people might be going through right now. And part of what, you know, it is, he is convinced he is right, he is convinced he is going to show people he is right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Hmm. The president, he did take the time to attack Federal Reserve chairman, Jerome Powell. He's accusing him -- him of playing politics and demanding that he cut interest rates. As for Powell, well, he's now warning about inflation and says he's not going to change anything until the ship steadies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME POWELL, CHAIR, UNITED STATES FEDERAL RESERVE: You have -- inflation is going to be moving up and -- and growth is going to be slowing. But it isn't really -- it's -- to me, it's -- it's not clear at this time what the appropriate path for monetary policy will be. We're -- we're going to need to wait and see how this plays out before we can start to make those adjustments.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I wonder when wait and see made anyone feel good. That phrase. Because right now, it has so many Americans freaking out. And one of the country's biggest banks, I'm talking about JPMorgan, well, they're now predicting an outright recession this year. And CNN's Fareed Zakaria points out it's more than just the stock market that's going sideways. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: This may be the biggest economic policy- making error of my lifetime. I've never seen anything like this. The stock market, the bond market, the commodity markets, everybody is signaling that this was a disaster and it's going to be more pain to come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Stocks, bonds, commodities, oh my. But the stock market, the commodities, the bonds, none of that has the White House changing its position. No. They're sticking to its guns. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, well, he is now throwing out a number for how much annual revenue these tariffs could actually bring in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY: Could it be anywhere from 300 billion to 600 billion a year? Sure.

TUCKER CARLSON, CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Okay. So, that's -- that's meaningful revenue.

BESSENT: Very meaningful. But what will happen with tariffs over time, that the ultimate goal of the tariffs, and the president says it all the time, bring your factory here. That's the best solution toward getting away from a tariff wall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:05:00]

COATES: We know time will tell if we even get to that point or if the Trump administration will stop playing this kind of game. Do you know what one game they won't be playing? Nintendo. It's delaying U.S. preorders for the new Switch 2 because of the uncertainty around the tariffs. So, while Trump is hoping the economy sounds like this --

(GAME SOUND PLAYING)

-- right now, it's really more like this.

(GAME SOUND PLAYING)

And you know what millions of Americans are hoping? They're hoping it doesn't end up like this.

(GAME SOUND PLAYING)

With me now on this Friday night to debate it all, former White House communications director and founder of SkyBridge Capital, Anthony Scaramucci, and also the chairman of O'Leary Ventures and Shark Tank judge, Mr. Wonderful AKA Kevin O'Leary. Glad to have you both here. I'm really curious about how both of you are viewing this. I want to start with you, Anthony. I mean, these numbers, the S&P, they lost what? Six trillion. Stocks lost $6 trillion over the last two days. How much worse could this get?

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, AUTHOR, FOUNDER AND MANAGING PARTNER FOR SKYBRIDGE CAPITAL: Well, listen, I mean, it's 10 trillion globally. And if these tariffs stay in place -- I mean, Kevin, I'm probably secretary of (INAUDIBLE), I made the case that it's not going to happen, and they'll find the way to negotiation. But they've already caused a tremendous amount of distrust in the system about a way that America is handling itself.

And so, you have to tell me. We're keeping them in place. We're going to go into a very steep recession. You'll probably have a drop off of at least 2% in growth. You'll knock unemployment up.

And, of course, these tariffs, despite what the president is saying, are consumption taxes on the American people. And so, what ends up happening, it eats up the living standards of the lower- and middle- income people.

So, it's a -- it's an unmitigated disaster. It was tried by Herbert Hoover in the 1930s. And, of course, it steepened the depression and it also caused deflation, which is also another might nightmare that we're going to have to be careful of as well. So, this is stupid policy.

And by the way, if President Harris was doing this, Kevin O'Leary would be going crazy right now. If 80 into the Harris administration, we drop $10 trillion of market capitalization and all of our trading partners lost faith with us, Kevin would be having a heart attack over. But go ahead, Kevin. Go ahead. Defend this.

COATES: Kevin, how are you feeling tonight? Can you defend the tariffs?

KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN OF O'LEARY VENTURES, SHARK TANK JUDGE: You know, I try and focus on the signal, not the noise. Harris is not president. Trump is. And if you don't like him 12 years ago, you don't like him now, I get it. I completely get it. But that's not the issue. Let's talk about the situation here.

Reciprocal tariffs that have been put in place just in -- they're basically ours with some countries. We've got 60 countries on the list. Already, you've heard from Thailand, Cambodia, the EU, and Senator Kennedy in Louisiana calling for zero tariffs between Canada and the United States. The whole point is it's a negotiation. And if you can get the zero tariffs, that's the best outcome. That's called free trade. That's 50% of why these tariffs are put on.

So, I'd argue to you, yeah, I hate volatility, I don't like it when the market corrects, but the market corrects all the time. It generally goes down 15 to 20%. It has proven over a hundred years plus. It's a great buying opportunity. And we just got the jobs numbers. The economy is just fine.

Now, maybe you don't like watching sausage being made. Obviously, Trump doesn't care. He's an unusual character that way. A lot of these negotiations are done in private quarters. Trump doesn't care. You saw the first of that with Lewinsky with -- you know, that's just the way he operates. So, I don't care about the noise. I care about the outcome.

Now, let's take North America --

COATES: Well, Kevin, I -- I've asked you -- hold on. Before you -- before you get to that -- hold on. Before you get to that. You do realize that there's a bit of a luxury and not caring about how the sausage is made if you live and die by the amount of money you have in your savings account, checking account, let alone being able to dabble in the stock market.

But I want to address two points with you, Scaramucci, to what Kevin had to say. And one of them is about market corrections. Yes, the market corrections can be normal. But is this normal? Number one. And number two, if it is about leverage, and this is a negotiation tactic, Trump is saying the tariffs are here to stay, doesn't that undermine it?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, there are just so many things. The first thing is it's not reciprocal tariffs. They -- they -- they took the amount of exports the U.S. has into other countries, they did a differential with the exports coming into the United States, then they came up with a factor that has nothing to do with the tariffs, and they're saying that there's 60% here and 50% there. It's a bunch of arbitrary nonsense. And so, it's not reciprocal tariffs unless you get that on the table.

[23:10:00]

Number two, this is a more meaningful correction. Kevin has been in the markets for a very long time. He knows this is a MIDI 2008 crash.

Last point I'll make, and I'll turn it over to Kevin, the risk premium in the global markets has now gone up because the global market participants cannot trust the Trump administration. They put the tariffs on. They take the tariffs off. They have no idea what they're doing. The trust has been lost.

I actually think this is part of the situation that's irreparable. Kevin knows that Mark Carney is going win the election as prime minister in his hometown up there. And Mark Carney is not going to -- not going to roll over for Donald Trump. I mean, you know, why -- why are you fighting with our best ally? I mean, that's the thing. I think it's one of the most upsetting parts of all this.

COATES: The Mooch at one point. And Kevin, I want you to address that point. But there is -- you know, you talk about trust. I'd love for you to address this. It's not just the global allies or people around the world. A friend of our show, of course, Andrew Yang, he tweeted this tonight, saying, heard from multiple big company CEOs that they are making plans to pull back spending and hiring or lay people off based on uncertainty unless there is an announcement on tariffs by Monday.

Kevin, what's your reaction to that? Do you think the trust issues with these CEOs is something to address from this administration or should they not be this worried?

O'LEARY: They shouldn't be worried. You know, at the end of the day, the opportunity is immense. You know, we just talked about Carney in Canada. He is not an elected official. He is a stop gap measure. He has no mandate for the Canadian people. His party wiped out the Canadian economy. It's highly likely he won't win the election, so I don't agree with that. But the opportunity between Canada and the United States, to put those two economies together, is immense. And that would be zero tariffs both ways, north and south.

People don't see that right now because they're gnashing their teeth and the frenzy is in the middle of an election with the Canadian people. And they're using Trump as fulcrum. Carney is basically saying, look, I know I wiped out the economy, I know 25% of you are now living in poverty, I know 41% of Canadian dollars have been wiped out by my policies, but don't worry about that, let's just stay on the focus of the evil Trump south of the border, I will save you from him.

Canadians aren't that stupid. They figured out that their biggest trading partner is the United States, biggest ally for 150 years. And at the end of the day, this will, too, just like a marriage, sometimes, there's a tiff, and certainly, Anthony knows that, and you kiss and make up. And that's exactly what's going to happen.

COATES: Hmmm. Well, while we're not on a couch, let's get on one for a second. Anthony, do you believe that?

SCARAMUCCI: I never tiff with Kevin. I never tiff with you, Kevin.

COATES: Oh, this is a beautiful moment, a beautiful marriage and friendship. But tell me what you really think about that.

SCARAMUCCI: In the -- in the -- in the Polymarket, Carney is at 83%. So, Kevin knows that Trump killed his conservative buddy up there. He just knows that. But the second thing is he also knows because he's a market participant. He knows that CEOs are saying, okay, the guy is crazy, but he's going after law firms, he's going after the free press, I got to keep my mouth shut.

The banks are all quietly telling people a recession is coming. JPMorgan, the boldest bank, said 60% chance now of a recession. All Trump had to do is lightly deregulate, strengthen the border, extend his tax cuts, and he would have touched off an economic boom. The economy was actually ramping up. The nonsense that he's going to disintegrate the global economy after 60 of integration is a falsehood.

And -- and Kevin is the one that told me, what are they going to do with the Alberta crude? What are they going to do? They're going to stop sending it to the United States, and then the United States is going to take all the refineries down and rebuild them because there's no more Alberta crude?

This is a nonsensical trade war that is damaging lower- and middle- income people. And it was totally unnecessary. The president had the opportunity to touch off a boom, and he's creating a self-inflicted recession.

COATES: Why do you think that appears to be the -- either the motivation or at least the outcome at this point in time, Kevin? I mean, you -- you mentioned earlier the idea that he's an interesting individual who doesn't care the same way, perhaps, other people care. I'm -- I'm paraphrasing what you said. Why do you think that is and will it ultimately serve the American people and economy?

O'LEARY: I think it will. You know, volatility is brutal. Nobody likes to see the stock market go down. But as we -- we know from history, it has always proven to be a buying opportunity. Never count out the American economy. Those job numbers were a surprise to the upside. So, the economy is doing just fine right now.

Now, it depends how long these tariffs stay on. I say 50% of them get negotiated away very, very quickly. Because you got to remember something. If you're calculating in the political side of this, Trump has a majority right now for another 18 months before the midterms.

[23:14:58]

This -- all this volatility. The speed at which these policies are coming in place is because he knows he may not enjoy that majority after the midterm elections. So, you got to get this work done now. I don't think these tariffs are going to be long lived at all. And I think everybody is coming to the table very, very quickly. So, you're getting this done at a breakneck speed and people are very uncomfortable with it.

But to actually turn the U.S. economy into a recession, that doesn't happen overnight. This would have to last for years. You don't like the gnashing of teeth and the volatility. I get it. And let's face it, Tony, you're not a friend of Trump's, you know. And I'm not even shilling for politicians, whether it's north or south of the border. I shill for policy.

SCARAMUCCI: You're -- you're not a friend of Trump either, man.

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: What is the point you're trying to suggest about his friendship? He's biased in his opinion? Is that what you're trying to suggest? Because his -- his statement so far have been about the economy and the numbers.

SCARAMUCCI: But I'm also pointing out objectively that the president was perceived as pro- business. He could have taken a pro-business stance, but he decided to go to, like, Russian -- Russian dictator, Circa 1890, and he's trying to -- trying to bully the rest of the world as opposed to gradually adjusting the trading system.

I'm all for surgical repair of the trading system and surgical tariffs that are effective in protecting our workers, but I'm not for disintegrating and disavowing the David Ricardo principle of global trade. It's just absolutely irrationally ridiculous. And by -- by the way, it's actually mean. It's almost as if Forrest Gump and Jacob Marley got together and had a baby, and the baby's name is Donald Trump. It's stupid and it's mean. And it's going to cost America soft power everywhere. And this is another big factor that I don't think Kevin and Mr. Trump -- President Trump understand.

COATES: While we all try to process that visual, we're going to take a break, because it was -- I need to process that particular baby you talked about just now. We're going to get a quick break in. We're going to get more from both Kevin and Anthony in just a moment, including how TikTok plays into all this. Did Trump's tariffs blow a potential deal in the 11th hour? Our debate continues next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: All right, we are back with Kevin and Anthony. Gentlemen, I want to read for you what "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board wrote today. Here's the headline. U.S. tariffs make Xi Jinping's day. They say that Xi is winning, of course. And -- quote -- "China's authoritarian system means Mr. Xi probably can ride out whatever political or social pain might result from higher unemployment or slower economic growth in a trade war."

Kevin, let me begin with you. Is there a risk that China gets the upper hand after all of this? I mean, are they winning?

O'LEARY: I'd say China is in a more precarious position than the U.S. is. The U.S. economy is much stronger than the Chinese right now. I don't think they want to protract the trade war.

But China is not just about tariffs. Since joining the WTO back in 2020, they have not abided by the rules, not one single year. IP law, access to markets litigation, compliance with U.S, securities laws on the Nasdaq and New York Stock Exchange, implementation of golden shares in Chinese products, and companies which are not permitted on our U.S. exchanges, access to our markets, financial markets. We don't have theirs.

There's a lack of a reciprocal playing field that we're trying to solve for here. And I think that's now finally come to the fore. These negotiations are much different than China. We're in an economic war with them. They don't play by the rules. They're probably going to have to come to the table before this is over, and that is a good thing.

COATES: Anthony, do you agree? I mean, are -- are these tariffs having a different impact? What are your thoughts?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I'm going to see the point to Kevin on China. I do think that there had been inequities in the trading relationship. I think the president, President Trump, was right that we needed to fix those, and we probably needed to fix those in the early 2000s. But I think where I would be worried about President Trump, frankly, I'm worried about, if I was Kevin, is that the Chinese are now going to our trading partners who were scorching, and they're trying to replace us with our trading partners. And I don't like that at all. And I think it's a competitive heads up, pursuant to what "The Wall Street Journal" is saying. But I do agree with Kevin and President Trump.

And, frankly, the Biden administration agreed with this as well, which is why they left many of those tariffs in place on China. But I think what we're doing now, this overstep is allowing for China to potentially get a leg up on us with our allies, which I don't like.

COATES: Let's talk about TikTok, gentlemen, because this continues to be a major focus for so many. I mean, sources are telling us that the White House was about to announce a TikTok deal, then the tariff, sunshine, derailed it. Kevin, what does that tell you about how these negotiations might ultimately play out?

O'LEARY: Actually, the TikTok deal is a little more complicated than that. You know, obviously, one -- one of the syndicates is intending you to buy it. We have an issue with the page five of the Supreme Court order, top paragraphs, anybody can read it online, where it specifically says you cannot use the algorithm, the Chinese algorithm.

[23:25:00]

So, the interpretation of the current deal is the idea that you just took a copy of the code, gave American ownership to it. Up to 20% could be held by China. Those are laws that we already have in place in media companies. But if you are subject to the penalty imposed by the Supreme Court and Congress, that's $850 billion of penalties a year. There's not a single S&P company that can sustain that without bankruptcy.

So, we're looking for some kind of indemnification from Congress or a slight change to the law that maybe they could put into the Reconciliation Act to get 51 votes, or if not, I don't think you can use the Chinese algorithm. And so --

COATES: While you wait for that, though, Kevin --

O'LEARY: -- days --

COATES: While you wait for that -- I hear you.

O'LEARY: There's so much interest.

COATES: You know you hear me talking, Kevin. Look, I know you're mentioning the point that there was the delay at the deadline by 75 days. But do you think that Trump, if he had a deal in hand, I don't have the issues that you're taking, did these tariffs blow the deal?

O'LEARY: He doesn't have a deal at hand because Xi hasn't ruled yet. This company has a golden share. By the way, I don't think -- I don't think you've seen it yet, but Lindsey Graham is about to bring a bill specifically about golden shares. And it's nasty. Very nasty. There'll be about $800 billion worth of Chinese companies delisted off the Nasdaq.

COATES: I know you'd love to do a deal. I know you've mentioned this in the past on this very aspect of TikTok. Anthony, I'm curious about how you see this, in particular, as well. Trump has extended the deadline to save TikTok by 75 days. It does, of course, kick the can down the road. But why do you think Trump has not been able to seal the deal yet? Obviously, to Kevin's point, people can want what they want. China has to essentially sign off on this. But is there more that Trump could be doing?

SCARAMUCCI: Okay, I'm just going to give you my editorial opinion. They're never giving up their algorithm. They're never selling that to a U.S. entity. It's just not going to happen. They'll shut it down in the United States before they would do that.

This is weapons grade espionage, this is weapons grade data retrieval, and it's also weapons grade propaganda where it's changing the hearts and minds of our young people. And so, it's very dangerous stuff, so much so that the president was against it. He got 80 or so congressmen, Republican congressmen, to vote against it and ban TikTok.

And so, I don't really understand why he's for it right now. I guess because they -- they helped him win the election or something like that. But this is -- this is one of those cases where you got to look at it. Is it good for America or is it bad for America? And TikTok is bad for America. And the Chinese are never letting that thing go with that algorithm. So, we'll see what happens, but that's my --

COATES: Well, I can't ignore the smile that is on Mr. Wonderful's face as you hear about the dangers that Scaramucci is describing. What's your reaction to that?

O'LEARY: 7.1 million American businesses, including all of mine, spend 60% of their advertising dollars each week on TikTok. It supports countless families in America. There's no need to wipe it out, obviously.

And I agree it's very unlikely that Mooch is saying that they won't sell the algorithm. Okay, if they don't sell the algorithm, you've seen this movie before, it was called Skype when Microsoft rewrote the code from scratch. We'll have to do the same thing here.

But wiping out TikTok is not a good idea for America at all because it's a very strong competitor in social media and has the lowest customer acquisition cost. So, I'm fighting for small business in America. Everybody knows I'm an advocate of that. I have my own companies on it as well.

So, part of the contingency and why I got involved with the court in the first place on this, he spent millions getting ready for taking this code and making it safe, if you want to call it that, and compliant with the law. So, if we can do that, that'll solve the problem. Everything has a risk. But if they don't sell the algorithm but are willing to sell the content, the accounts, the brand, there's a way to fix this. And that's the path of least resistance. So, in 75 days, we'll know what's going happen. But it's very hard to say you want to wipe out 7 million small businesses in America. That is un-American.

COATES: We'll have to see how all this plays out there. It's still 75 days. I wonder how many after that. Congress has spoken. Supreme Court has as well.

SCARAMUCCI: He is getting the last word with that, Laura?

COATES: Clearly, you don't want him to. What do you want to say? Go ahead.

SCARAMUCCI: No. I mean, it's all right. I mean, he's got to -- he can have the last word.

[23:30:00]

I -- I would like Kevin to buy it, actually, and I'd like to get rid of their algorithm. But I'll just -- I would like to bet Kevin right now, a gentleman's bet, that the Chinese are never letting this go. Can we have that bet, Kev?

O'LEARY: You know, that would be negative, Mooch. I don't want to be negative. I'm a positive guy. And, you know, I don't want to bet against myself. I've never bet against myself. And so, you know, I'm an optimist. Let me solve this problem --

SCARAMUCCI: And why do you get it, Kev? I want to be wrong, Kevin. I want to be wrong.

COATES: Well, to quote Wesley Snipes (ph) --

(CROSSTALK)

-- 57. Always bet on black. We'll end it there with that one. Anthony, Kevin, thank you both. Call each other. He will get on a plane in four hours, he said. Call him. Text him. Get me in a group chat, especially if there's money involved.

O'LEARY: I'm not in New York. I'm coming to your restaurant.

SCARAMUCCI: All right, I'm looking forward to it, Kev. You know -- you know I love you.

COATES: This is beautiful. I'm just -- I'm just sitting here facilitating your -- your love fest. Thanks, brothers. So, ahead tonight, small cracks emerging on the Hill over Trump's tariffs. A House Republican now plotting a move to get Congress to step in. Will it go anywhere?

And later, immigration officials arrest a mother in Maryland as her daughter records the whole thing. What DHS is saying and the family's response. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Trump's tariffs are surely putting pressure on Republicans. And, you know, quacks within the party, well, they're already emerging. Listen to Senator Ted Cruz today who is, of course, as you know, a prominent Trump supporter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX) (voice-over): If we go into a recession, particularly a bad recession, 2026 in all likelihood, politically would be a bloodbath.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, today, CNN learned that Republican Congressman Don Bacon will introduce a bill to reassert Congress's power over tariffs, a companion bill to one already introduced in the Senate. But will enough Republicans rally in support? Will he even get a vote? President Trump, as you know, is holding firm, posting on Truth Social, only the weak will fail.

Joining me now is CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings and former deputy Pentagon press secretary Sabrina Singh. Good to see you both this Friday night.

Scott, let me ask you this. Look, the chances of enough House Republicans jumping in to try and reign in Trump, they are slim, perhaps slim to none. But should they at least have the conversation? I mean, how much pain are they willing to take?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, it's a worthwhile conversation. It's also happening in the Senate. You had Chuck Grassley the other day joining with Maria Cantwell on a bill that would have forced tariffs to be ratified by Congress. And if they weren't, they would expire after a certain amount of time. You heard Rand Paul, my senator in Kentucky, on the floor of the Senate when he voted against the Canadian tariffs the other night, giving a passionate argument about why Congress really should be involved in this conversation.

So, obviously, you know, whether you think tariffs are good policy or bad policy, the issue here is, should the president have unilateral authority to do it? And you think about it, it is a sweeping power. I mean, we don't -- we don't really have that many powers in our system where the president can unilaterally do something this broad. The pardon power is one. And this one has, obviously, global implications.

You know, there's Republicans all over this debate. You know, some are adamantly opposed, some are lukewarm on it, some are nervous, some are, you know, all in on it. It's really interesting because Donald Trump is implanting effectively new policy DNA inside of a party that has been highly skeptical of tariffs for several decades.

COATES: Several decades. Indeed. And Sabrina, I mean, we've talked a lot about Democrats and how they seem to have been in search of a message as of late. You heard Senator Ted Cruz talk about a political bloodbath that could be predicted. The idea of Republicans now essentially saying something different if they are in full support of these tariffs, and they have for decades. What should Democrats be saying or responding to?

SABRINA SINGH, FORMER DEPUTY PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Look, I never thought I'd be saying this, but I agree with Ted Cruz. I think if the economy continues to go the way it does, if we see the markets crash and continue to go down that we've seen today, what's going to happen is that Democrats are going to have a unifying message going into the midterms that this is an impact to workers, that this is an impact to American consumers.

And, you know, certainly, the markets are reacting. But at the end of the day, you know, Democrats are going to continue to have to drive that message forward. No one at the -- no one -- I think Democrats and Republicans don't want see a hit to the economy, don't want to see our workforce hurt more.

But that's exactly what these tariffs are going to do. These tariffs are a tax. These companies that are going to have to be forced to pay these tariffs are not going to -- they're going to push that onto the consumer.

So, I think it's really important that Democrats are uniting around this and find a unifying message here as we head into the midterms.

COATES: I think both parties would be prudent to make sure they're focusing on the impact on the individual American consumer and people as opposed to just sort of the political volleying that normally takes place.

And having said that, though, I'm old enough to remember, as both of you are, how there was tracking of how many golf tournaments or times that presidents have played golf when major things are going down.

[23:40:00]

Scott, Democrats, they're pouncing on the fact that President Trump was playing golf as these markets were tumbling. Do you worry about the optics at all?

JENNINGS: No. I mean, not at all. I mean, presidents play golf. Joe Biden played golf. Joe Biden spent most of his term on vacation. I mean, no -- I mean, this is -- this is -- this is a common parlor game that's played. I don't think it makes a difference to anybody.

I do find it interesting in this conversation, though, about Democrats finding their, you know, free market --

(LAUGHTER) -- bonafides all of a sudden. I mean, this is the same party that has been arguing that corporations need to pay higher taxes. I mean, effectively, a tariff is just a tax on corporate activity. That's what it is. And Democrats for years have argued for higher corporate tax rates. And now, they're arguing against effectively a tax on corporate activity.

I think if I were Donald Trump, I might next week say, you know what? I'll meet you -- I'll meet you on this, let's slash the corporate tax rate in half, and it'll mitigate -- it'll mitigate your concerns about the tariffs. I bet you wouldn't find one Democrat who would agree to it even though it would be an amazing idea.

COATES: Well, Sabrina, I want to hear your take on that one in the sense that, do you really think no one cares about the optics of golfing while this is happening? And number two, I understood Democrats' message in part to be the -- everyone playing their fair share, not to impose something that would be detrimental to the average American consumer. What's your thought?

SINGH: Well, Scott, I mean, while the president was playing golf, my parents watched their retirement savings go down. So, I think it's -- I think, you know, there are people all around this country, my parents included, my in-laws included, that are watching their savings continue to dip in the market, and these are people that have worked their entire lives for this.

At the same time, you know, take your point on companies and corporations. Again, these are corporations that are going to shift that tariff to the consumer. And at the end of the day, what we're talking about is prices going up, the price of clothing going up, the price of groceries going up, electronics. So, when you go into Target to buy the TV that you want or you go in to buy the groceries that you want, those are prices that are going to go up, thanks to the Trump administration.

So, I think, you know, going back to the larger point on Democrats, you know, the Trump administration is certainly giving Democrats something to rally around. I think we're finding our footing here of being the party that delivers for working class folks and, at the end of the day, stability.

You're seeing this administration continue to alienate, you know, partners in the -- in in the Indo-Pacific like South Korea and Japan moving towards China because they are afraid of what these tariffs are going to do to their economy and to their consumers that they provide, you know, different products to.

COATES: This -- this situation is everyone on pins and needles across the board. Scott, Sabrina, I'm glad to have you both on. We'll look forward to what happens next week. Hopefully, look forward. Thank you both.

Up next, a daughter witnesses her mother getting arrested by immigration officials. Tonight, how DHS is defending the arrest and her family's response next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: The Maryland father, who was mistakenly deported to El Salvador despite having had protected status, has been ordered to be returned home by a judge. We'll see if that actually happens.

But tonight, we're following another story out of Maryland that's also getting attention. You're about to see a video of a 52-year-old single mother of four named Elsie Noemi (ph) Berrios being detained by federal agents during a traffic stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): No. You know?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE). No. Mommy!

UNKNOWN: (INAUDIBLE).

UNKNOWN (voice-over): You guys cannot take her just because you guys want to.

UNKNOWN: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNKNOWN: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNKNOWN: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Wait. Don't grab her like that. Don't grab her like that.

UNKNOWN: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: CNN did reach out to the Department of Homeland Security to ask why she was detained. They responded -- quote -- "This individual has been identified as an associate of the vicious MS-13 gang. Americans can rest assured that she is off our streets and locked up" -- unquote.

Now, tonight, her family is denying these allegations, telling us their mother came to the U.S. from El Salvador eight years ago. They also said that she has a valid work authorization and no criminal record.

Joining me now to discuss is Elsie's (ph) daughter, who recorded the video that you just saw, Karen Cruz Berrios. Karen, I -- I'm going to ask you in a moment about what happened. But I -- I do want to have you respond to what the DHS is claiming about your mom. They're claiming that she's an associate of MS-13. Are you aware of any ties that she has? Is there any truth to that as far as you know?

KAREN CRUZ BERRIOS, MOTHER WAS DETAINED BY IMMIGRATION OFFICIALS: No, it's false. My mother, she works really hard since she was really little, and she never had anything to do with gangs or anything like that. And that's why we came to the United States because she -- she doesn't want anything to do -- because back then when we were younger, there was a lot of gangs. So, she brought us here for this -- for that part, for nothing to, like, happen to us or anything.

[23:49:55]

So, my mom, of course, she wouldn't not be associated with them because I feel like if she was, she would not -- nobody would be asking for her, like, friends from Maryland or people from church or people that know her from here or from our country, wouldn't been asking, how are we doing? Why did they take her? I feel like they wouldn't even be asking why did they take her if they would know, right? If they had a reason.

COATES: Hmm.

CRUZ BERRIOS: But, clearly, I don't think they have a reason because I feel everybody would know because everyone is asking, like, why? Is she okay?

COATES: Hmm.

CRUZ BERRIOS: They didn't have rights to take her. They didn't have a warrant. They didn't have anything. And --

COATES: Well, Karen, on that point, I do - I want to ask you about that, Karen. I don't want to interrupt you. Because I can't get the video out of my mind. We we've now seen this. We've seen the window be broken while she was in it. We hear her telling you to calm down, not to worry as well. We can hear you crying as she tells you and tries to, well, do what every mother would do to comfort her daughter. Can I ask you, did you ever get a reason as to why they had either pulled you over or why they were taking her?

CRUZ BERRIOS: Of course not. The -- the supervisor you see right there, he -- he sent one of the officers. He -- the officer came to my window, and he asked for IDs. And I was trying to give him my ID, and he didn't want my ID. He was asking for my mother's ID. And I said, are you the police? And he said, yes. And I was, like, I don't think so. And then he said --

COATES: Is that why you started recording?

CRUZ BERRIOS: Yes. I was, like, I don't think so. But I did give him my mother's ID. And because I know it was a little suspicious, started recording the whole thing. And then that's why the supervisor that you see that's talking to my mom and pulling her out of the car, he tells the other person -- he was telling my mom, get out of the car, get out of the car. And that's when I'm asking, do you have a warrant? Do you have a warrant? And he's telling me, oh, I'm not talking to you.

COATES: What went through your mind when the window was broken? I mean, had -- had you been afraid of this moment?

CRUZ BERRIOS: Yes, I was very scared. It made me really upset because my mother never done anything wrong for her to -- to be able to, like, be treated inhumane, because I can call this inhumane, not -- they didn't -- I feel like they didn't do it professionally. They're not doing their work professionally.

Not only with my mother. They're doing this with a lot of people -- with a lot of people, especially Hispanics that are -- are here just to work. They work really hard for their families to be able to give them a better life. And they're just doing this. I don't even have a reason because why, you know?

But at the same time, I was really proud of my mom because she has diabetes and something else. And she takes -- looks for that. And sometimes, she can get, like, really bad. But there, she was really calm. She was the one calming me down. It is usually me calming her down. So, I was really proud of her for doing that.

COATES: Well, Karen, have you talked to her since she -- have you talked to her since she has been taken?

CRUZ BERRIOS: Yes, I have talked to her.

COATES: What is she feeling?

CRUZ BERRIOS: She was very upset. But she was telling me that she believes in God and that she knows she never done anything wrong on our country or here, and that her record is very clean, and that they -- they -- they should have nothing to be accusing her of. And she knows she hasn't done anything. So, she has a lot of faith. I hope everything goes well, too, because I know how my mom is. Nobody knows her more than I do. So, it's like nobody can really say how she is when they don't really know her.

COATES: Well, Karen, you know your mother best, and thank you for sharing what that experience was like. Karen Cruz Berrios, thank you so much.

CRUZ BERRIOS: Of course. Thank you.

COATES: Again, we're going to keep an eye on this story and what happens to Elsie (ph) and should the DHS reveal any evidence to support their claim of MS-13 ties. We'll, of course, follow that up.

Still ahead, a new spotlight on Anna Delvey. Remember her? The con artist turned celebrity? We have a sneak peek at Jake Tapper's latest "United States of Scandal" episode next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Before we go tonight, don't miss the all-new episode of "United States of Scandal with Jake Tapper." It follows the story of Anna Delvey, who managed to con New York's elite into thinking she was a German heiress in a few short years. She was also able to swindle banks and hotels and businesses and more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MCCAFFREY, DETECTIVE, NYPD FINANCIAL CRIMES TASK FORCE: She was able to walk into a hotel without a credit card, convince them that she would pay them in the future, and she was granted access to a hotel room.

[00:00:03]

She was able to walk into a bank and say, I promise you I have money. It's not here, but it's on this bank document, and I'll give it to you down the road. Just give me a loan first. And they did.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Before her grift was up, Anna had conned banks, hustled lawyers, and stiffed restaurants and even friends to the tune of more than $275,000.

MAURA JUDKIS, REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: I think there's something about the absolutely bonkers delusional self confidence that it requires to pull off something like this. People wouldn't want to admit it, but they begrudgingly respect it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Be sure to tune in the new episode of "United States of Scandal with Jake Tapper," airs Sunday at 9 p.m., only on CNN.

Hey, thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.