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Laura Coates Live

Trump Might Be Caving In Trade War As Musk Signals Some Caving On DOGE Mission; New DOJ Drama As Prosecutors Reveal Ultimatum To Keep Jobs; Head Of "60 Minutes" Resigns As CBS Faces Trump's Pressure; Laura Coates Interviews Enes Kanter Freedom. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 22, 2025 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Tonight, making caving great again? The new signs that Trump might be caving in the trade war as Musk signals some caving on his DOGE mission. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

So, you know that cost cutting chainsaw that Elon Musk loves to wave around? Something is getting ready to hang it in the shed for a little while. At least maybe put it in low power mode.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, CEO OF TESLA MOTORS, LEADER OF DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY (voice-over): The large slug would work necessary to get the DOGE team in place and working in the government to get the financial house in order is mostly done. Starting probably in, next month, May, my time allocation to DOGE will drop significantly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: He made that announcement on a Tesla earnings call. And as for those earnings, well, they aren't good. The company's profits plunged by 71% the first three months of the year. So, Musk will now get back to building cars and maybe keep DOGE as more of a side hustle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUSK (voice-over): I'll have to continue doing it for, I think, probably the remainder of the president's term just to make sure that the waste and fraud that we stop does not come roaring back. I'll continue to spend, you know, a day or two per week on government matters for as long as the president would like me to do so and as long as it is useful. But starting next month, I'll be allocating far more of my time to Tesla.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Musk, he also addressed the elephant in the room. I'm talking about President Trump's trade war and his sky-high tariffs hurting Tesla's bottom line.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUSK: The tariff decision is entirely up to the president of the United States. I will weigh in with my advice with the president, which he will listen to my advice, but then it's up to him, of course, to make his decision. I -- I've been on the record many times saying that I believe lower tariffs are generally a good idea for prosperity. I'll continue to advocate for lower tariffs rather than higher tariffs. But that's all I can do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, even though today brought bad news for Tesla, it was a good day for the markets. All three major indexes ripped more than two and a half percent. Why? A word got around that Trump's treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, told investors behind closed doors, he thinks a trade war between China and the U.S. is unsustainable. He thinks it's going -- he expects it to deescalate soon. Now, the White House, they're teasing a deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There have now been 18 proposals in more than 100 countries around the world who are wanting to make a deal with the United States of America, and the president and the administration are setting the stage for a deal with China. So, we feel everyone involved wants to see a trade deal happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: And what does that trade deal with China look like?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Setting the stage for a deal with China, what does that mean? Has the president spoken directly with Xi yet?

LEAVITT: I don't have anything to read out on a direct talk between the president and President Xi, but we will continue to keep you updated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Oh. So, does that mean the stage is still dark? The curtain hasn't even been raised? I mean, the president himself got asked about more specifics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Are negotiations actively underway? And do you agree with Secretary Bessent, who has suggested that the current standoff with China is not sustainable?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're doing fine with China. We're doing fine with every -- I think almost every country.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): On China, are you going to play hardball with them?

TRUMP: I'm not going to say, oh, I'm going to play hardball with China, I'm going to play hardball with you, President Xi. No. No. We're going to be very nice, they're going to be very nice, and we'll see what happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: So, no confirmation about where our negotiation stands. Just -- just talk about, well, niceties in the future. You know, it is a major tone shift from this normal tough on China talk. It was saying a lot different about Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell after publicly attacking him for weeks.

[23:05:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I have no intention of firing him. I would like to see him be a little more active in terms of his idea to lower interest rates. This is a perfect time to lower interest rates. If he doesn't, is it the end? No. It's not. But it would be good timing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Quite the change from just a few days ago. Right? When Trump was saying Powell's termination cannot come fast enough. One high profile stock trader said the Trump administration's narrative shift come down to one thing, the flashing red lights about the economy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER, NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: It's almost like a bipolar person who took their medication. Everybody came out with a completely different message today. The president did it, Elon Musk did it, and Bessent did it. They're suddenly listening to everything that has been said, and they are pivoting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I want to bring in Kara Swisher, CNN contributor and host of the podcasts -- plural -- "On" and "Pivot." Kara, good to see you, my friend. I want to start with Musk --

KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, OPINION CONTRIBUTING WRITER FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES, PODCAST HOST: Thank you.

COATES: -- saying that he'll be back, coming back from DOGE --

SWISHER: Yeah.

COATES: -- to spend more time at Tesla after the drop in profits. What do you think is the reason? Did he finally realized maybe how much trouble this has caused his company?

SWISHER: Not just that. It's that the company has other problems. By the way, he -- he may attribute it all to supporting President Trump. But the company hasn't come out with a great car in a while, and the Cybertruck was a flop, essentially. And so, he really does need to focus there if that's actually his interest. Right?

He seems to be more interested in AI. He often jumps from thing to thing. He also has SpaceX and Starlink to think about because they're seeing a fall off because of -- of countries being nervous about being affiliated with him.

And so, he should focus on his business. This is where he does best and where -- where he excels, you know. So, why not just declare victory and move on even though there's no victory here in what he has done at DOGE?

COATES: Well, part of that nervousness, he attributes to the protest. He suggests the protest targeting Tesla were part of an organized paid campaign against him and his company. He doesn't think the backlash is --

SWISHER: Hmmm.

COATES: -- is actually genuine. What's your thought?

SWISHER: Oh, it's genuine. I think there's a lot of really good cars out there. He's getting his head handed to him by BYD in China. There's a number of great cars from Japan. U.S. makers are doing rather well, actually, Ford and GM and others. Jaguar across the world are doing really interesting EVs and hybrid cars. Tesla has not updated its -- its lineup in a long time. You can be a pioneer, but the planes are covered with the bodies of pioneers. So, you really have to keep innovating, and that what he hasn't been doing there.

COATES: What about the backlash politically?

SWISHER: Including the robotaxis.

COATES: I was going to say that.

(CROSSTALK)

Go ahead, Kara.

SWISHER: That has not helped. That has not helped the situation. Of course, it hasn't. But the of fact matter is that the business is not making cars that people want to buy.

And it -- he also has managed to alienate his customer base. His customer base was liberal and Democratic, and he called them all idiots. I don't think it's really nice to be called an idiot when you have so many other choices out there.

He also said he's going to do robotaxis, but he has never done them. And Waymo has been doing them for years. He seems to think his robotic stuff is going to make trillions of dollars. And, you know, Uber just makes $12 billion right now in revenue. So, trillion is kind of a big reach. But I say reach for this guy is in business. He should do that. COATES: Well, he also broke with Trump on the issue of tariffs. He has been consistent in that. He said that he will continue to advocate for lower tariffs. But, of course, Trump is the one that makes the decisions. Did you read that many are looking at that as that he has lost some sort of influence over Trump, that he is offering his counsel and Trump will do what he wants to do?

SWISHER: Yeah. Before, he was winning and throwing that, you know, the chainsaw around, and he was the co-president and appearing in all those interviews. And, obviously, Trump didn't listen to him on tariffs. Probably should have in that case because it's really hurting Tesla, by the way. It will hurt all his companies, any companies that make anything.

What the problem that Tesla have is some of the stuff -- the money they're making is not from selling cars, but it's for these -- these things they sell other car companies that don't make emission standards correctly. They also make money on cash and investments. They have to make money selling cars. That's their business. And, you know, maybe he'll merge it into xAI and try to get the AI boom from it. I don't know.

But he -- you know, he doesn't have as much influence with Trump as he did, I suppose, and he sort of admitted that today. But he really should focus on business. It's what his -- he -- he excels at. And, you know, he has to kind of save face by saying he found all this fraud or that it's someone else to blame for all these problems.

COATES: Yeah.

SWISHER: But the problem is he wasn't running his business, and now he has to.

COATES: Well, the saving face point -- I mean, he originally said that DOGE would find a trillion dollars in savings.

SWISHER: Uh-hmm.

COATES: But he says, so far, it's about $150 billion. What happened?

SWISHER: Well, if even -- even to that much, I -- you know, I think what he has shown is the government works pretty well. Congratulations. Actually, there's not that much fraud to find.

(LAUGHTER)

You know, he does that all the time. He was going to have robotaxis.

[23:09:58]

Seventeen times, I interviewed him, he was going to do them the next year or full self-driving. This is the way he operates. I don't -- that's okay. You know, everyone should have a dream, and this is his dream. And so, you know, he -- he wanted to show that he did something. And look, I am all for the idea of reforming government, and it's good to do this. Just the way he did it, as usual, was -- you know, he comes in like a bull in a China shop and broke everything, and didn't get -- didn't get buy in from all the other Cabinet members or anybody else. He just seemed cruel and -- and capricious.

And the whole chainsaw thing was weird. I mean, it was just weird. And -- and I don't think it worked. I don't think -- if you want to get people to change, you don't -- you don't beat them up. I -- I don't think, you know.

COATES: Kara Swisher, sound advice, my friend. Thank you.

SWISHER: Thanks a lot.

COATES: Here to discuss Trump's trade war is Spencer Hakimian, founder of the hedge fund Tolou Capital Management. Spencer, welcome. What a reversal. I mean, Trump is now insisting that a trade deal with China will happen, the 45% tariffs won't stay on for long, and Powell's job is safe. Did the message from the investors break through to the president?

SPENCER HAKIMIAN, FOUNDER, TOLOU CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: Well, thank you for having me on, Laura, and good evening. The -- the message somewhat broke through. We can see it in futures pricing. The stock market was up a little bit tonight in the Asia -- in the Asia session.

But what I must say is when we keep going back and forth between no tariffs, 145% tariffs, you know, maybe no semiconductor tariffs, you know what, maybe no tariffs at all, what we are risking, if you were to ask me, is -- is a loss of credibility. And that is a lot worse than just having some type of, you know, accidental mistake with the economy that, you know, that happens often. But credibility takes a lifetime to build and a moment to destroy, and we should be very careful about how we are behaving with not just China, but with all of our trading partners.

COATES: Proceed with caution when it comes to credibility. I mean, the secretary of the treasury, Scott Bessent, reportedly said that while he expects a de-escalation, a comprehensive deal with China could take two to three years. I mean, is there an off ramp of any kind that you can restore confidence in, or is there some real damage to that credibility that's really here to stay?

HAKIMIAN: The secretary is absolutely correct. I would even say it's going to take longer. The Chinese are famously patient people. They're patient civilization. They've been around for 5,000 years. They do not think in terms -- they do not think in terms of midterms or presidential elections. You know, they think very long term.

And I think it -- the secretary, Secretary Bessent, appears to be wanting to bring the whole world on board and only maybe go after China at once which, in my opinion, is likely a better strategy.

But the issue is then we get people like Peter Navarro that are going on and saying, no, we're going after everyone, we're going to go after Vietnam, we're going to go after this, we're going to go after that, and then we also get the president going on and just sending mixed signals.

So, what is most important right now is for the White House to be sending one coherent message with everyone on board. Everyone that speaks on behalf of the administration should be saying the same thing. No matter what it is, they must be saying the same thing so that we can understand.

And in my personal opinion, I do not think we should be alienating allies like the Europeans, the Canadians, the Mexican, Japanese when we are going for China. We cannot be fighting off more than we can chew at once.

COATES: Well, here's a message. I don't know if you want to call it cohesive, but the president certainly was direct about it. Today, he's saying that he's not considering firing the Fed chair, Jerome Powell, despite what we've all heard, his rants against him which tanked the markets yesterday. He blamed the press, though, for -- quote -- "running away with things" and that he never had any intention of firing Jerome Powell. But how important do you think his tone, a softer one at that, on Powell, was for the business community to hear?

HAKIMIAN: Laura, if I may, let me just go back for one second. The president Truth Socialed a comment that he cannot wait. His termination cannot come fast enough.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

HAKIMIAN: So, this is, in my opinion, as a non-economic statement, it's just gaslighting. I mean, it's -- it's so obvious for you to see. But with that being said, somebody this weekend definitely got to the president and said, you are risking total catastrophe for the economy if we do not have an independent chair.

Laura, I know that you are a legal analyst. And in the same way that the Supreme Court has to be independent from, you know, just the swings of politics, so must the Federal Reserve chair. That is the essence of what a central bank should be doing. It has to make policy not based on politics, not based on midterms, but what's based -- what's better for the long-term direction of our country.

[23:15:02]

So, somebody definitely spoke with the president, if you were to ask me, and told him, we cannot make a comment. So, it is encouraging that he made a comment like this. In my opinion, he never should have made a comment like it, but at least he walked it back this week -- today, I should say. So that was somewhat encouraging to see.

COATES: Too many thumbs on the scale. Balance for none. Spencer Hakimian, thank you so much.

HAKIMIAN: Thank you.

COATES: With me now, CNN analyst Zolan Kanno-Youngs, CEO of the Center for American Progress Action Fund, Neera Tanden, and CNN political commentator Brad Todd here as well. Welcome to all. I wanted to begin with you, Brad. I like the tie.

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you.

COATES: President Trump is now saying that he's not going to play hardball with President Xi, almost sort of sarcastic on even the question being posed to him, he's going to play nice, and that tariffs were going to come down substantially. What do you attribute to this tone given the fact that President Xi hasn't budged in his position?

TODD: I think he will play hardball with President Xi. I think that's the coherent through line in Donald Trump's trade policy. You can go back to when he announced his campaign in 2015, when he talked about how we'd had too many stupid people letting China rip us off. There will be a strategic disentanglement from China. Joe Biden even did some of it. It's going to happen after Trump leaves no matter who replaces him. So, he will be a catalyst for that. I think --

COATES: Why is -- why you look not convinced?

(LAUGHTER)

NEERA TANDEN, POLITICAL CONSULTANT, DEMOCRATIC THINK TANK, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: I don't look -- I look -- I -- I'm not convinced because I basically think what happened is that the president looked at the, like, the headlines that the stock market has collapsed, the bond market is collapsing, our global credibility is collapsing, and he finally met a force that is stronger than him, which is the U.S. economy and Jay Powell, and Jay Powell was not intimidated, and I think it's actually a lesson.

If you were not intimidated by -- by -- if you are not intimidated by Donald Trump, he may well back down. And I think --

(CROSSTALK)

TODD: -- Joe Biden -- Joe Biden to continue Donald Trump's tariffs on China and increase them into more things like solar panels?

TANDEN: Okay, there's nothing -- okay, just to be clear, there's a big difference between 5 percent, 10 percent tariffs on solar panels and 145 percent tariffs on everything. This is --

TODD: But the through line is getting tough on China and disentangle.

TANDEN: You know --

TODD: Are Democrats now for China?

TANDEN: Is it -- is it really getting tough on China to say -- after all these weeks to say, oh, we're going to make a deal, we're backing down. He's basically --

TODD: But you didn't answer my question. Are Democrats want to take China's side in this --

TANDEN: No.

TODD: -- or are they want to get tough on China and disentangle?

TANDEN: I think it's -- it's not tough on China, actually, to threaten them and then back down. They learned that you're weak and they're strong.

TODD: Does the job --

TANDEN: So, what he has done is actually --

COATES: I want to hear what she says. Go ahead. Finish your point.

TANDEN: Yes. My basic point is I think it's a demonstration of weakness to threaten another country and then back down. I think that is not tough, that's weak. And I think a president who did that -- if a Democrat basically made all these threats and then climbed back down, every Republican would be attacking them as weak.

COATES: I want to bring you back in, but I want to hear your take on this because this is a bit of political chicken, but it seems that President Trump is perhaps the one blocking.

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yeah. I don't know about -- about take, but the -- look, the reporting suggests here that even as the White House says that the countries are coming to negotiate with them and that they have the will to negotiate, even before these tariffs, based off both countries' accounting, there was little effort to actually negotiate or talk.

And sometimes, you do wonder if this is another example of actually the -- the tariffs rather than being a means to an end just are the end if the president does like the idea of just announcing these tariffs and watching what happens here.

I think there are people -- in fact, I know there are people in the administration that do want actually an effort to actually engage at this point. We just haven't really seen evidence of that yet. There is bipartisan support for competing with China. To your point, when it comes -- there -- we are talking about different levels of tariffs here as well.

And also, I mean, will China blink here? We haven't seen that yet. Each time we've seen a challenge of tariffs, we've seen China retaliate just as much even though we have a message from the administration to not retaliate.

So, at this point, you know, reporting on this, we're just watching to see for any evidence beyond just a threat of tariff or retaliation, an escalation of economic punishments if we actually see any evidence of real territory.

TODD: Every -- COATES: One second. You know who has been blinking? Elon Musk. I want to get to him for a second because I know you mentioned the idea of Democrats and Republicans being pleased by a particular outcome as it relates to tariffs. But what about the idea of Elon Musk leaving essentially DOGE to return to his business, you know, Tesla and beyond? Is that considered for you a win for Democrats, say neutral for Republicans? How do you see that?

TODD: He was always a special government employee, which you're limited in how long you can serve. And his clock is about to run out. I think --

COATES: It sounds like he's leading before that clock, though.

TODD: It is pretty close. It is pretty --

COATES: At a reason.

TODD: It is pretty close. And he's also saying he's going to continue to have a role and continue to provide the president with advice. I -- I think Americans elected Donald Trump to be a disruptor.

[23:20:00]

They knew Elon Musk was part of the package. And they have disrupted things, and they have kick started a whole new round of savings.

You know, this week, Congress has announced they're going to be sending a rescission pack. They're going to work on a rescission package. If -- I think if Democrats want to die on the hill of defending a bunch of spending and waste and fraud and abuse, I look forward to that election in the midterms.

COATES: Neera?

TANDEN: I mean, I think the facts are that if you hired someone in your company, and an H.R. manager, for example, and that person fired, you know, nuclear safety specialists and health care people, and then you had to hire them back, you would fire that H.R. specialist because you would think, frankly, they're an idiot.

And so, I think this is -- I think this -- this argument that government -- Democrats don't like government efficiency, of course, we do. What we don't like is a person who takes a wrecking ball to agencies he doesn't understand, and then has to actually hire people back after all of this disruption, is not saving government very much money, and is actually -- I think, you know, this is another climb down.

COATES: So, politically, if he's out of the picture, is that better for Democrats? Is it better for the arguments in favor of monitoring the waste or abuse?

TANDEN: I actually think it's better for the American people. Whether it's better for Democrats or better for Republicans, I can't tell you. I just think actually having someone who knows nothing about the government, who is a wrecking ball, and then is basically firing and rehiring people and creating a lot of chaos.

TODD: You can't find -- you can't find one elected Democrat in this city who's trying to help Donald Trump cut waste, fraud, and abuse because they want to keep it.

TANDEN: That's not true. There was a bipartisan committee.

TODD: There's not one.

TANDEN: That's not true. There's a -- there's a bunch of members on a bipartisan --

(CROSSTALK)

KANNO-YOUNGS: I would also just -- I would caution on, even if Elon steps away officially from his special government employee status --

COATES: I love the air quotes. You don't believe it at all. Go ahead.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Well, the White House has said that they expect DOGE work to continue, too. So, even if he's not there officially, I mean, top White House officials have said that they're going to continue to talk to him, seek advice from him. I mean, this is somebody that raised a record amount of money for the president. He is somebody that has been sort of a means to what the president wanted to do in cutting federal bureaucracy. I don't see him detaching from Elon Musk even if, you know, there's an official separation here.

So, we should talk about not just Elon in terms of how it works into sort of what Democrats talk about or Republicans talk about, but also the work of DOGE because I do think that work is going to continue.

COATES: Well, the work is not only the fraud and abuse, you know, but it's also the idea of efficiency and criticism of the government and how it's working bureaucratically.

And to that, I turn to the Pentagon, which says -- some reports say it's in chaos under the leadership of Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense, obviously. He is accusing the three fired Pentagon employees of leaking. Then in the same breath, he's saying, well, you know what? Maybe they'll be cleared. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: So, once a leaker, always a leaker, often a leaker. And so, we look for leakers because we take it very seriously. And we will do the investigation. And if those people are exonerated, fantastic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Double speak. I mean, it sounds like a reversible scapegoat or a reversible investigation. How do you see that?

TODD: Well, I -- I think he's obviously in a disruptive mode. He's in -- a lot of the brass at the Pentagon came to their positions in the Obama era. And they're not --

COATES: Do you want the disruptive mode in the Defense Department?

TODD: Well, I think after 16 years, most of which was people who are appointed by the Obama-Biden team, perhaps you have to clean out some of the dead wood at the top. I think that -- that if -- that's what he was put there to do. And I think as long as he's doing that with the structure -- I think Pete Hegseth is on the hook for one thing, though. He needs to also tell us who he's promoting and who he's hiring to it and attracting to these jobs to replace people. As long as he's improving things at the Pentagon, and that's -- he -- he's in great shape.

COATES: But that's the issue. They're saying he's not necessarily improving it. And also --

TODD: Oh, the leakers are.

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: I mean, the lawyer in me says the alleged leakers who --

TODD: Yeah.

COATES: -- denied leaking it, number one. But number two, Signal in of itself has been the albatross around his neck. That's part of the issue with him, not the idea of who he's not willing to promote.

TANDEN: Look, his top Pentagon spokesperson, he was not fired. He left because of the chaos. He's a Republican. He loves the president and talks about how great the president is. Says he's a chaos monster and it's a disaster over there. I mean, I just think it's amazing to call -- I mean, this is the greatest euphemism in American history, to call the disaster at the Pentagon disruption.

And, honestly, the real problem here is if a soldier did one one hundredth of what Pete Hegseth has done, if he, like, took information and put it on a Signal chat or had all these people fired around him or general or military commander, they would be fired immediately.

And the fact that the only reason why this guy is still commanding people is because of the political needs of the president says a lot more about the president's desire to put politics above the safety and national security of the American people.

[23:25:04]

COATES: Definition of the pleasure of the president. Right? He is an appointee. Thank you, everyone. Still a lot more ahead. A what would you do-type scenario inside the Department of Justice. Three career prosecutors say they were told they can keep their jobs and get them jobs back if they apologize for their role in the Mayor Adams case. What they decide to do? I'm going to tell you next.

And later, the shock resignation at "60 Minutes." The program's longtime executive says he's stepping down. His explanation has everyone asking, did Trump just get exactly what he wants?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Exodus in the Southern District. Three more federal prosecutors quitting today, saying in a letter obtained by "The New York Times" -- quote -- "We will not confess wrongdoing when there was none."

The three prosecutors, Celia Cohen, Andrew Rohrbach, and Derek Wikstrom, all worked on the corruption case against New York Mayor Eric Adams. They were placed on administrative leave after Trump administration ordered the U.S. attorney's office in Manhattan to drop those charges against the mayor. And they say Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche set a condition for their return, to admit they did something wrong when refusing to drop those charges.

Here's a little bit more from their letter. Quote -- "We have served under presidents of both parties, advancing their priorities while pursuing justice without fear or favor. Now, the department has decided that obedience supersedes all else, requiring us to abdicate our legal and ethical obligations in favor of directions from Washington. That is wrong."

As of today, 11 federal prosecutors have stepped down over the administration's decision to dismiss the case against Mayor Adams.

Joining me now is one of those people, former Federal Prosecutor Ryan Crosswell. Ryan, thank you for joining me this evening. I mean, these prosecutors are saying that the deputy A.G., Todd Blanche, said that they could have their jobs back if, and this is a big if, if they admitted to wrongdoing. First of all, what's your impression of that, and what kind of admission was he looking for, do you think?

RYAN CROSSWELL, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR WHO RESIGNED OVER ERIC ADAMS DEAL: Laura, thanks for having me back. My immediate impression and reaction was I -- I -- I can't understand why he did this. He could've quietly offered their job back or just fired them. But he had to know these prosecutors were not going to do this. I think he could ask every AUSA in that office, and they would refuse to do it because it's wrong. And he knows it's wrong. And I just don't know why they would want more egg on their face over this.

COATES: I mean, the heat we're talking about, Todd Blanche is a former prosecutor himself --

CROSSWELL: Sure.

COATES: -- at SDNY. He was also Trump's personal attorney before becoming the deputy A.G. Obviously, his counsel during his Manhattan case as well. I mean, does his involvement and him being that person who is perhaps spearheading it, does that surprise you at all? CROSSWELL: Only in the sense that it just makes so little sense. I think the fact that he was an AUSA in that office is one of the things that has been so hard to reconcile, is that he knows better than this. He knows.

And you know how he knows -- and you know how we know he knows better? The front office at the -- at Maine, at the Department of Justice, they could have dismissed this themselves. They went to the SDNY, and then they went to the Public Integrity Section because they wanted our imprimatur over this. They wanted our sign of approval, our seal of approval. And so, it -- it's -- it's not surprising at this point.

COATES: Of course, when you say that seal, it wasn't like they wanted your agreement or consent. They wanted your name instead of theirs, it seems, you're suggesting. And Ryan, in your own letter, when you resigned, you -- you talked about how they talked about your more subordinate position and the idea that those who signed on might be rewarded somehow in the future with a vision of leadership. Tell me about how this compares to the experience of SDNY, your own.

CROSSWELL: I just -- you know, Eric Adams may be willing to accept their quid pro quo, but 99% of federal prosecutors are not. And, you know, in our section, it was coercion. It's just the irony of the fact that this -- this Eric Adams case was a case where a grand jury found probable cause that he engaged in a quid pro quo. And since then, it has been the leadership of the DOJ trying to extort prosecutors to dismiss this case, and at the cost now of 11 dedicated federal prosecutors who were protecting American people.

COATES: Of course, Mayor Adams --

CROSSWELL: So, I think it's very similar to --

COATES: Yeah. Mayor Adams, of course, he says there was no quid pro quo, but Judge Dale Ho, as you know, dismissed the Adams charges at the request of DOJ. They, of course, wanted it to be without prejudice, meaning that they would be able to bring it back if they wanted to. He had a different take.

And in his ruling, he criticized the department saying -- quote -- "Everything here smacks of a bargain: dismissal of the indictment in exchange for immigration policy concessions."

So, why do you think the Justice Department is being so aggressive on this case in particular?

CROSSWELL: It's -- it's -- it's very hard for me to understand.

[23:35:00]

So much of what I'm seeing is hard for me to understand. The -- the idea that a prosecutor will be disciplined or relieved for speaking candidly to the court. I -- I have no idea. And, you know, one of the reasons this is so -- so problematic is because the judges are seeing this. Judges are seeing this. And, as you know, federal prosecutors are supposed to always be honest with the court. COATES: Uh-hmm.

CROSSWELL: This is going to negatively affect prosecutions of, in some cases, very dangerous people. It's hurting the department, and it's hurting our mission.

COATES: Ryan Crosswell, thank you.

CROSSWELL: Thank you.

COATES: Still ahead, the news of another resignation. This one at "60 Minutes." One of Trump's favorite punching bags now losing its top showrunner. So, what exactly happened? And later, it sounds like a plot of a Hollywood movie. A Muslim basketball player befriends the pope, but it's a real-life story, and we'll have it for you tonight.

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[23:40:00]

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COATES: Well, the head of "60 Minutes" is out. Executive producer Bill Owens told his staff -- quote -- "I'm stepping aside so the show can move forward." Adjusting the show's independence has been compromised, saying, over the past months, it has become clear that I would not be allowed to run the show as I have always run it.

And here's why. There has been an ongoing $20 billion legal fight between CBS and the administration over an interview with Vice President Kamala Harris last fall. The president argued it was deceptively edited. Now, fast forward, now the parent company of CBS, Paramount Global, wants to merge with Skydance Media. And who needs to approve it? The Trump administration.

Joining me now, CNN media analyst and senior media reporter for Axios, Sara Fischer. Sara, good to have your insight today in reporting. I mean, viewers, they don't always have a window into the team of producers who are behind a show. But, tell me, why does Bill Owens's exit from "60 Minutes," why does it matter in this context?

SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST, SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER FOR AXIOS: It's so symbolic, Laura. Bill Owens has been with "60 Minutes" for over two decades. He has been with CBS for the vast majority of his career. He is synonymous inside CBS with journalistic integrity, with commitment to the brand. And so, if he, as a leader of the show, as a leader within the organization, is coming out and saying, I don't think I can do my journalistic independent work here, that sends a very strong message to the thousands of people who work at CBS News about the state of play here at the network.

And I'm glad that you talked about the -- the broader context with the merger that's pending between CBS's parent --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

FISCHER: -- and Skydance Media because ultimately, we don't think that his resignation would be happening if it weren't for that merger.

COATES: I mean, we know that CBS has been sued by President Trump. But is that what is the cause of this resignation or is there something more? What are your sources telling you?

FISCHER: Okay. So, you have a lawsuit that President Trump filed when he was a civilian last year.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

FISCHER: At a separate time, you have -- the Federal Communications Commission had Brendan Carr waging an investigation into CBS for its news fairness practices regarding the exact same issue, which is the editing that the Trump campaign claimed was deceptive of a Kamala Harris interview.

And normally, when -- you have a civilian court case that is completely divorced from a regulatory approval process. But in this particular situation, the concern is that they are linked, so that basically, CBS is likely to consider settling a lawsuit in a civilian court case so that they can gain regulatory approval of a merger.

Laura, this is considered unprecedented. You do not normally have these two things mixing together. But because this administration's policies are unprecedented, CBS is having to consider this type of action. That is what prompted Bill Owens's resignation today. I think for people at CBS, they're looking at this and they're outraged. How could you be conceding your editorial integrity for the future of a lawsuit and for a merger? Is that really worth it?

Here's where it gets tricky, Laura. Right now, Paramount, which is the parent company to CVS, its market cap is, like, seven and a half billion dollars. This deal values Paramount even higher than that. Right? Over $8 billion. The market is so pressured right now. The ad market is falling apart because of tariffs. That if you're Paramount, this merger has got to go through. It's kind of life or death for the company.

And so, you could see why they might feel like they need to make some editorial concessions to get that through. But it's going to be very painful in the meantime, especially because CBS News is a union, and those unionized employees are going to fight back.

COATES: Unprecedented and certainly not the end of this story. Sara Fischer, thank you so much.

FISCHER: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: Up next, mourners prepare to pay respects to Pope Francis. His body is said to be moved to Saint Peter's Basilica in just three hours from now. And tonight, we have a special tribute to the pope. It's the story behind this handshake. Former basketball player Enes Kanter Freedom is here to share it with us next.

[23:45:00]

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COATES: Well, here's an unlikely duo. A Muslim former NBA player and the head of the Roman Catholic church. It may seem hard to believe, but for former Celtics center Enes Kanter Freedom, meeting Pope Francis was a dream come true. The two forged a bond held together by a love of sports and the hope of bringing people together from all walks of life no matter the faith they belong to.

[23:50:03]

That's why Enes Freedom started a multi-faith children's basketball camp in the pope's own backyard. Shortly after the pope's passing on Monday, Freedom posted on X -- quote -- "Pope Francis was more than a global spiritual leader. He was a man of deep compassion, humility, and humanity. His kindness crossed all boundaries of faith. The world has lost a rare soul."

Well, former NBA player and human rights activist Enes Kanter Freedom joins me now. Enes, welcome. And I wonder, why was it your dream to meet the pope, and can you tell us what it felt like to realize that dream?

ENES KANTER FREEDOM, FORMER NBA PLAYER, HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Every time I see that video, it actually puts a still -- still puts a smile on my face. I visited him around 2022, right before Christmas. And I remember, you know, I was about to shake his hand. He actually told me to get up. I was very confused. I was, like, I got up, and his translator said, you are probably one of the tallest persons that ever visited the pope. He actually asked me in that video, as you see, he's, like, are you two meters? I was, like, no, I'm way over two meters.

(LAUGHTER)

But I think his message since actually I was a little kid, obviously, from social media, I was following him, and his message since 2013 really inspired me and touched my heart. And I had this wild and amazing idea where I'm going to go to Vatican, have a conversation with him, and right after that, I'm going to organize this beautiful basketball camp for kids from all walks of life.

So, we brought Christians, Muslims, Jewish kids, and we all came together and played basketball. And obviously, sport has an amazing message to bring people together. So, I put these Muslim kids in the same team with Jewish kids, in the same team with Christian kids.

You know, at first, they were hesitant because how our world is so divided. But then, you know, I was -- it's a team sport. So, they were passing the ball to each other, they were high-fiving. At the end of the basketball camp, they were following each other on Instagram, they were sharing their phone numbers. You know, it was a -- it was definitely such a beautiful moment for me.

COATES: It sounds like it's a Hollywood film thinking about that. But yet -- I mean, sport is the great unifier. But, obviously, it was deeper than that. It was about the idea of the connection. And your connection that you had with the pope was really unlike anything many people have ever seen. And have you ever -- was it him in particular? What was it about him in particular that made that connection so strong?

FREEDOM: You know, when -- I visited him twice, and I attended his audience. But I think the one thing really -- you know, really inspired me, how humble he was. You know, he wasn't going around with his, you know, private jets or Mercedes. He was going around with a golf course and just, like, a normal car. I was, like, is this really the pope is coming? Because I don't see no fancy stuff. No. He was definitely the symbol of being a humble person. He was the symbol of unity.

And, obviously, unfortunately, our world is so divided, and he was the one person that always talks about unity. It doesn't matter your background, your skin color or whoever you are. We need to -- we have -- we only have one world to live, so we need to make this world better together. And so, he was this symbol of hope.

And, obviously, after I visited him, many of my teammates texted me, like, I thought you were Muslim. I was, like, yes, I am Muslim, but you can still be inspired by a religious world leader like -- like the pope. So, he inspired me, and I'm sure he inspired not only 1.4 billion Christians around the world but many million -- millions of Muslims, too.

COATES: So powerful to think about that. And yet you also having that interaction, although you were much taller than him. You were essentially face to face. And I'm wondering, you know, we always saw that smile on the pope's face. Was he -- was he funny? How did he make you feel?

FREEDOM: He was -- he was actually very funny. I was -- I was -- I put on a straight face. I would try to be really, like, serious. And then he came out with a warm smile. And I was, like, should I smile? Should I just, you know, keep this straight face? But he made me feel so comfortable.

And what was so beautiful, at the end of our conversation, he said, you pray for me, I pray for you. I was, like, who am I? I was, like, who am I to pray for you? You're the pope. No. That shows his -- his character. That shows his personality and being humble. So, he definitely touched my heart as a Muslim.

COATES: What a beautiful soul. I mean, he also -- the pope wrote a preface to a book back in February. Part of the text has now been released today.

[23:54:58]

And in it, he writes, death is not the end of everything, but the beginning of something. What do you hope the world will remember about Pope Francis?

FREEDOM: You know, his message, like I said, again, was unity. And he talked a lot about how we have to inspire our young generation so we can have a better and brighter future. And I think every time -- you know, two times I was in his audience, and he talked about, you know, what can we do to bring people together, like, as a team, you know?

COATES: Uh-hmm.

FREEDOM: And, obviously, I'm -- I don't know if the if our audience knows, but he is a huge sports fan. He follows soccer very closely. Obviously, from Argentina, he was a big Lionel Messi fan.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

FREEDOM: So, he was -- I'm sure he was very excited when the Argentina won the World Cup. But, no, I just wanted to say I hope that, you know, his message inspired not only Christians around the world, but the -- every walks of life.

COATES: Enes Kanter Freedom, thank you.

FREEDOM: Of course. Thank you for having me.

COATES: And a reminder, the pope's body will be moved from his residence to Saint Peter's Basilica at 3:00 a.m. Eastern. And Anderson Cooper will be live on scene to cover the procession, of course, right here on CNN.

Thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.

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