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Laura Coates Live

Pope Leo XIV Becomes First American Pontiff; VP Vance Offers Up New Doll Defense for Trade War; Trump Taps Fox's Jeanine Pirro as Interim U.S. Attorney; "The View" Interviews Biden. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired May 08, 2025 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, the world meets the first American pope, a White Sox fan who grew up in Chicago. So, will the Catholic Church stay on the current path or go in a new direction?

And call it the doll defense. Now it's at -- it's J.D. Vance who's weighing in on kids having fewer dolls in the new economy, making a comparison to American-made weapons of war.

Plus, President Trump turns to his favorite place to coach new hires and taps Fox's Judge Jeanine Pirro as the new top prosecutor in Washington, D.C. A former host of that network is my guest tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

So, if you had Cardinal Robert Prevost on your April bingo card, you're either psychic or just really into long shots because hardly anyone bet on this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(APPLAUSE)

COATES: That's the first American pope in the 2000-year history of the Catholic Church. He is a Chicago native. He spent decades in South America advocating for the poor. He can speak five -- count them, five languages. And now, he's known as Pope Leo XIV, leader of the 1.4 billion Catholics all across the globe. These were his first words to the world as pontiff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO XIV, HEAD OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, SOVEREIGN OF THE VATICAN CITY STATE (Through translator): Peace be with you all.

(APPLAUSE)

COATES: Pope Leo also paid tribute to Pope Francis, signaling that he may carry on the late pontiff's cherished reforms. But even though Leo was well regarded by Francis, few saw this coming. It's especially a shock for Americans who were at the Vatican when it happened. (END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: USA! USA! USA!

UNKNOWN: I would have never expected an American to become pope in a million years.

UNKNOWN: We're very excited. We did so much research. We were looking at all the top contenders, and we never expected an American. So, it's a -- it's a -- you know, it's a surprise.

UNKNOWN: I just answered a text from a friend of mine, and he said, you quoted me there'll never be an American pope. So, I just wrote back and said, I was wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: Never say never, I guess, because people back here at home were just as excited as people at the Vatican, especially at Villanova University outside of Philadelphia. Prevost graduated from there in 1977. Church bells on campus rang for hours as word spread about the alumni pope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN HUGHES, CHAIR, THEOLOGY AND RELIGIOUS STUDIES AT VILLANOVA UNIVERSITY: When the name was announced, I -- it was stunned silence everywhere. And I was overwhelmed. I started crying. I was really just -- I couldn't believe that the pope is somebody I've met, somebody I've had lunch with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: The announcement of an American pope even took President Trump by surprise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They have already spoken to us, and we'll see what happens. But, again, to have the pope from the United States of America, that's a great honor. I was watching, and they said he's from America. I said, that's great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Even people within the Catholic Church are stunned. Take Bishop Robert Barron of the Diocese of Winona-Rochester in Minnesota, my home state. He says today was one of the strangest days of his life.

Now, just a couple days ago, he said it was possible Prevost could get elected, but he thought it was a unlikely scenario that we get a pope from America. Why? Well, he cites an American cardinal who once told him, we wouldn't see an American pope until the U.S. was in decline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BISHOP ROBERT BARRON, DIOCESE OF WINONA-ROCHESTER: I think it's very unlikely an American would be elected pope. I think there's --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Why do you say that?

BARRON: Well, because we're the superpower in the world, and so people would say, look, you run politics, you run the economy, you tend to run popular entertainment, you're going to run the church, too?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yeah.

BARRON: I remember Cardinal George often said that. He said there will not be an American pope until we go into political decline.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:05:01]

COATES: Now, the pick of an American pope couldn't come at a more polarizing time in U.S. politics, and both the domestic and, of course, the world stage and social media posts under the name Robert Prevost who have shown a willingness to share some criticisms of the Trump administration's immigration policies.

Take a look at this X post from February. It shares an article saying Vice President J.D. Vance's interpretation of Christian doctrine is wrong.

Will Pope Leo speak out now that he is the pontiff? Well, we will soon find out.

Here to discuss this historic moment, Father William Lego, pastor of St. Turibius Church in Chicago. He studied with the new pope when they were young seminarians in Michigan. Michael Sean Winters, writer for the "National Catholic Reporter," is here, as well as Katie Prejean McGrady, a CNN Vatican analyst and host of "The Katie McGrady Show" on SiriusXM, the Catholic channel, which is operated by the archdiocese of New York.

Father, let me begin with you and your first reaction when you heard the pope was not only an American, not only a Chicagoan, but your former classmate.

FATHER WILLIAM LEGO, PASTOR, ST. TURIBIUS CHURCH: You know, it was a little bit of a surprise. But knowing Bob, we were in the seminary together for 13 years, so we -- we have a history.

But then after we finished our preparation and we both were ordained and became priests, his -- his life took a different track, and it was always one on leadership, and it was always leadership centered on doing what is just and keeping the poor in mind. So, I think he'll bring those gifts to his pontificate. And also, as an Augustinian, one of our marks is we build communion and community in the world. So that, I think, will be also a trademark of what he will go and do in the forward. How do you bring people in the communion with the Lord, getting to know the presence of the Lord in their life, and then expressing that in acts. So, I think -- I think it's going to be an interesting pontificate.

COATES: Father, it warmed many hearts to hear you refer to him as Bob. Just thinking about how -- as the -- the person --

LEGO: I'm sorry --

COATES: No, no --

LEGO: -- calling him --

COATES: I am not going to --

LEGO: -- Robert, not Bob.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: I'm not going to correct the father, first of all, but I just wanted to say it -- it -- it, in many ways, probably resonates with people, just the -- the infancy of where he is right now and his relatability, and I wonder if that will resonate with so many people.

Michael, let me ask you as well. So many assumed the cardinals would not select an American to be the next pope. Why was it a barrier and how do you think the cardinals, in their sequestration, overcame it?

MICHAEL SEAN WINTERS, WRITER, NATIONAL CATHOLIC REPORTER: So, I was curious. The last couple weeks, some of us did have Prevost. They only prepared three analysis articles in advance, and one of them was him. And it was because the Latin American sources, my sources in Spain, my sources here in the Vatican Curia, they didn't say that the U.S. passport was a difficulty.

And I think you saw that when he came out onto the balcony today. He didn't switch into English. He started in Italian, and then he went to Spanish. This is a man who spent two-thirds of his life in Latin America and here in Rome. So, he was the least American of the Americans. He has an experience of a global church. And I -- I think, at that point, they just said he has everything else we're looking for. We don't care that he's from -- has a U.S. passport.

COATES: Katie, let me ask you, because now that we have an American pope at a time when the U.S. president is cracking down on immigration, do you think that this pope is going to prioritize the circumstances, often the plight of migrants in this country?

KATIE PREJEAN MCGRADY, CNN VATICAN ANALYST, SIRIUSXM HOST: I think so. And I -- I think he'll think of it not so much as migration the issue, but migrants the people.

One of the first things he said was, peace be with you. And then he made a direct appeal to us to think about the words Pope Francis offered to us in his weak voice on Easter Sunday. That was a callback to Francis, while at the same time wearing something that looked a little Benedict and JP II. This is his own man as pope.

And so, I think he will chart a course that specifically addresses these challenges, but in his way. It's not necessarily going to be through tweets. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the kind of pope who speaks English, picks up the phone, and maybe calls the White House and says, hey, let's have a conversation about this. He was pretty bold in saying that the vice president was wrong. Well, now, he speaks their language. Maybe they'll actually listen to him.

COATES: You have to wonder, given that, of course, his chosen name as well, father, you know, obviously, his predecessor in name was known as the "Social Pope." Right? And somebody who was well versed, not only trying to align the church with more modern thought, but also a relationship with a government and a civil government.

And one of the major changes at the Catholic Church under Pope Francis was the gradual acceptance of the LGBTQ community.

[23:09:59]

And back in 2012, "The New York Times" reported that Pope Leo said that -- quote -- "homosexual lifestyle was 'at odds with the gospel.'" What direction will the new pope go now, do you think?

LEGO: Is that to me?

COATES: Yes, father.

LEGO: I think he's -- as I said, our Augustinian curiarism is that we invite people into community and communion. So, on any other level, he'll be respectful of -- of people and invite them into participating in their faith.

I -- I don't know what he's going to do. He's -- as you said, he's his own man. And he is -- he reflects a lot, he prays a lot, he gathers a lot of information, but he will be respectful and make, I would think, very good decisions and put -- and try to put them in the action.

COATES: Michael, as we talk about him, there is obviously here in the United States a -- a fixation on the fact that he is an American and how many people did not expect this to be the case. But as you pointed out, he spent nearly two decades in Peru. He -- he talked about that time, frankly, just a year ago. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO XIV: The part of ministry that most shaped my life was Peru. I was there for over 20 years. I can only say how gifted I feel because of what I gained from my years working in Peru. And I hope that every priest can say that about wherever he works because if -- I'm so convinced that if we open our lives and our hearts to serve others we indeed, like the gospel says, receive a hundred-fold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: How did that time in Peru influence him, Michael?

WINTERS: I think there were two things. First of all, he went to a part of -- of Peru that was very rural and -- and suffering abject poverty. I mean, not like U.S. poverty, abject poverty. And I think that, you know, was -- is one of the common points he has with Pope Francis.

It's just this real understanding that that the poor are privileged in -- in God's eyes. And -- and those who we just -- like migrants who we just -- we define by what they don't have. The undocumented. Right? The unhoused. The unborn.

This -- this is Catholic social teaching 101. And -- and that's going to be the same for every pope. You're not going to have a pope who says that, you know, we don't care about migrants. So, I think that's one.

The other was leadership. I spoke to an Augustinian friar, who -- who was a year behind him. And he said, you know, when he got to Peru, he became the formation director, and -- and he really cultivated local leadership. So, today, that province in Peru, they are all local, you know, native-born Peruvian leaders.

And that's a real talent, to cultivate other people and bring them along so that you can pass the baton, as it were, from that missionary presence to a -- to a native-born clergy.

COATES: I want to thank all of you for your insight as we're all beginning to get more familiar with the new pope. Thank you.

Joining me now, Congressman Chuy Garcia, a Democrat from Illinois. He's also a Catholic and also an immigrant to this country. Congressman, glad to have you this morning -- evening, excuse me.

I can imagine that you are certainly rejoicing tonight. What is the selection of Robert Prevost as the new pope? What does that mean to you? What does it mean to the city of Chicago?

REP. JESUS "CHUY" GARCIA (D-IL): Oh, there is a great sense of pride and glee and celebratory spirit all over Chicagoland because the first American pope has been elected by the College of Cardinals. He comes from a multicultural community, a mosaic of ethnic communities and neighborhoods in Chicagoland.

His work in South America, in Peru, the fact that he is fluent in Spanish, that he spent over two decades in Peru and did the ministry there is very uplifting.

And, I think people feel a wonderful successor to Pope Francis as well. So, people are celebrating in so many different ways, whether they are Catholic or not. And it's a wonderful time in Chicago for sports fans, for foodies, for everyone who has been looking for a winner in Chicago. And we've run on hard times in terms of our professional sports. So, it's a wonderful time. And, of course, we're also very, very hopeful that this is a continuation of sorts of the legacy that Pope Francis left for the poor, for workers, for immigrants, for concerns about the future of the planet and climate change, and calling out people in power to be more compassionate and more just to everyone in our midst.

[23:15:00]

COATES: Well, congressman, on that note, I mean, there is an X account posting in Prevost's name that has posted articles critical of the Trump administration's stance on immigration and Vice President J.D. Vance. Now, CNN has not been able to independently confirm the X account is connected to Prevost. But what role do you think the pope should play in voicing any opposition to policies that might trouble him?

GARCIA: Well, as someone who cares for social justice, a Catholic upbringing, and an immigrant myself, I am very hardened and encouraged at some of the posts that have been attributed to him.

Calling those in power who have resorted to antiimmigrant views for political reasons, to reflect upon Jesus's upbringing, the fact that he was once a migrant himself, and that we shouldn't forget our heritage and our legacy as a community of Catholics and Christians, and other people who care about (INAUDIBLE) who are suffering. So, we are -- I am very encouraged by that.

I'm also personally very happy because he once taught at the high school here in Chicago, the Catholic high school that I graduated from. He is an Augustinian. That is the order that has run St. Rita High School in Chicago.

So many, many reasons to celebrate. The Irish are celebrating. The Polish are celebrating. The Mexicans and Latinos are celebrating. Many people are celebrating across Chicagoland.

COATES: Frankly, across the entire globe. Congressman, a pleasure speaking with you as the world continues to react to and rejoice at the naming of a new pope. Thank you so much.

GARCIA: Thank you. Glad to join you.

COATES: Up next, Trump says a slowdown at the ports is a good thing. Really? And the dolls, they keep bringing up the dolls. Yes, there's a new argument for fewer dolls tonight, this time from the vice president, J.D. Vance.

Plus, the new interim U.S. attorney for D.C. You recognize her, don't you? Fox News host Judge Jeanine Pirro. Is she ready for the job?

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[23:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COATES: In 30 years from now, when the economic history books are written about Trump's trade war, you can be sure of one thing, there's going to be an entire chapter titled "dolls." The White House appears to have latched on to this idea that promoting austerity measures for kids explains their case. And each day, there's a new message about dolls.

So, let's take a look at how this has evolved, shall we? I want to start with Trump on Sunday when he was asked about the potential for empty shelves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm just saying they don't need to have 30 dolls. They can have three. They don't need to have 250 pencils. They can have five.

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: But you're basically saying there could be some supply shortages because of the tariffs.

TRUMP: -- waste money on a trade deficit with China for things we don't need, for junk that we don't need.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I would have gone with the pencil analogy longer because it just resonates with school-age children parents. Okay, your kids don't need more junk. But then Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent had a new message for the boys and girls in America. Don't be sad about the dolls. It'll lead to a better life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY: I would tell that young girl that you will have a better life than your parents. Your family will own a home. You will be able to advance. You will have a good education. You will have economic freedom. That's what we are advancing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: But it didn't stop there because Vice President Vance today, he also mentioned the dolls and gave yet another explanation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: What I ask people is not whether they want two dolls or five dolls or 20 dolls for their kids. Would you like to -- God forbid, if your country goes to a war and your son or daughter is sent off to fight, would you like to know that the weapons that they have are good American-made stuff, not made by a foreign adversary?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: The value of the dolls. With me now, the cofounder, president and CEO of Gerber Kawasaki Wealth and Investment Management, Ross Gerber. Ross, glad you're here. I -- I got to ask you if you think this doll argument is playing at all on Main Street or Wall Street for that matter. Is it reassuring anyone?

ROSS GERBER, CO-FOUNDER, PRESIDENT AND CEO, GERBER KAWASAKI WEALTH AND INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT: Well, it's -- it's really troubling to have, you know, like, billionaires telling, you know, the American families which, you know, for the most part are struggling still to, you know, get ahead. We've had the best economy in a long time with really low unemployment and real wage gains. Americans are in a pretty good financial spot.

So, they're -- they then, you know, throw us into a recession and tell the average American family that they don't need dolls, when you're sitting in -- at the UFC in front row with all your friends who are billionaires and -- and gold plating the White House.

You know, billionaires telling average Americans to deal with austerity is really poor messaging at best.

COATES: When I'm looking with the dolls, too, I think to myself, it seems very almost dismissive and reductive to think about all this coming down to a conversation with -- about dolls.

[23:25:04]

But the president went on from there. He was asked today about traffic slowing down at U.S. ports. Ross, listen to his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): We're seeing as a result the ports here in the U.S., the traffic has really slowed and now thousands of dock workers and truck drivers are worried about their jobs. Is that --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Yeah. We lose -- that means we lose less money. Yeah. When I see that, that means we lose less money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: So, the business owners who can't afford to get their products here would, obviously, disagree. But what do you think the point he was trying to make was?

GERBER: Well, I think most importantly out of this, you know, to say it just sort of blunt -- bluntly, is that Trump doesn't understand the economy at all. And we're not losing money through deficits or global trade. You know, it's a transference of goods and capital for different needs.

And -- and in America, for example, the doll argument is absurd because, really, what Americans want is choice and low prices, and that's what has really driven capitalism since the beginning of time, is the idea of having, you know, full competition globally which gives, you know, American consumers the best choices in the world. And, you know, when people from other countries come to America, one of the first things they say is they go to a grocery store and it blows their mind, the choices that they have. So, taking choice away from Americans just isn't going to play well. So, they can keep trying to sell Americans about austerity, but when people start losing jobs, for real, they -- it -- it really dramatically affects real families.

We're going to see a turn in sentiment against this administration if they don't come to terms with the fact that there -- there isn't an immediate return to growth just when you completely, you know, throw the whole trade, you know, system into an imbalance. So, so -- what we could have is a pretty bad recession. And in the best-case scenario, no growth.

And, you know, I just don't think it's so simple to say, well, things will be just be great in the future. I've gone through some very hard times in America like the financial crisis. And so, I think it's just really narrowminded to, you know, run the ship into the dock and then say, don't worry, it'll only be a little bit of damage.

COATES: You mentioned capitalism. And you probably heard from the billionaire Trump supporter and Citadel CEO, Ken Griffin, who told "Politico" today -- quote -- "Tariffs open the door to crony capitalism. The government starts to pick winners and losers."

Now, the trade framework that Trump announced with the U.K. today, Ross, it would lower tariffs on -- on luxury cars like Rolls Royce because everyone is getting one of those. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We took it from 25 to 10 on Rolls Royce because Rolls Royce is not going to be built here. I wouldn't even ask them to do that. You know, it's a very special car and it's a very limited number, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Raise your hand if you own a Rolls Royce or that's your next purchase in the next, say, 10 days or 10 months. But while waiting for those hands, tell me, Ross, why is the argument that kids don't need dolls but a Rolls Royce and more luxury cars, sign me up?

GERBER: Well, this is exactly the "picking winners and losers" things that tariff causes because the irony of this is that he's letting Aston Martin, Jaguars, and Rolls Royces which -- you know, the U.K. makes about a hundred thousand cars a year that they send to the United States. And -- and, you know, he's basically giving them an advantage over companies like Ford and GM, which manufacture in Mexico, that are still in a 25% tariff rate.

So, we've seen immediately the unions in Detroit reach out and say, hey, what are you doing? You know, you're picking winners and losers here, and you're picking American companies as losers at this point. So, it's not like Ford and GM can just, like, change the global supply chain every month when Trump, at his whims, changed tariffs. So, not only does it pick winners and losers, it's the uncertainty and the constant change that really throws business into turmoil and -- and what is really causing much more of the damage than even the tariffs -- tariffs themselves because consumers are pulling back, businesses are pulling back, everybody is going into defense, and that's exactly how you get a recession.

COATES: Ross Gerber, thanks for your insight.

GERBER: Thank you.

COATES: Up next, who needs LinkedIn? You can just turn on Fox News and hire from mayor. President Trump tonight picking Judge Jeanine Pirro for the top prosecutor job in Washington, D.C. Former Fox News journalist Gretchen Carlson standing by with her reaction next.

And later, President Joe Biden reemerges with the defense of what happened in the election that may be giving Democrats a little bit of hard work.

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[23:30:00]

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERGIO GOR, DIRECTOR OF PRESIDENTIAL PERSONNEL: Very soon, we have a big announcement for another big hire. We can't mention names.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: A little foreshadowing there. President Donald Trump naming Fox News host and former prosecutor Jeanine Pirro as the acting U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C. Pirro will be joining the ever-expanding list of former Fox News personalities to serve in the Trump administration.

With me now, former Fox News anchor and founder of "Lift Our Voices," Gretchen Carlson. Gretchen, a pleasure to have you with us. I mean, as you know, Pirro is replacing Ed Martin, who in recent days faced a lot of pushback from Republicans on the Hill -- Republicans on the Hill.

[23:35:03]

Why? For failing to report appearances that he made in recent years on far-right outlets, on Russian state media, for disparaging comments about police officers who defended the Capitol on January 6, just to name a few. Ideologically speaking, is Pirro different from Martin?

GRETCHEN CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEWS ANCHOR, FOUNDER OF LIFT OUR VOICES: I don't really think she's that much different. You know? Look, she was one of the Fox hosts that was really embroiled in that whole Dominion voting systems catastrophe where Fox had to pay them, you know, almost $800 million.

Many people thought at that time that she and other hosts who continued to talk about the election fraud and the lies about Dominion would be let go. But instead, they were -- they were actually promoted. Tucker Carlson was the only one who was allegedly let go because of that.

So, I'm -- I'm just not so sure that she's that different from Ed Martin. And if you look at somebody like Senator Thom Tillis, a Republican who had many issues with Ed Martin, I -- I don't see where there would be a huge difference between Martin and Pirro.

COATES: You know, she's a former Westchester County, New York judge. She's a former prosecutor. Maybe more vital for Trump. One of his most loyal backers on Fox News. I mean, listen to this, Gretchen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS HOST: You've got a guy who took care of the caliphate in, what, a few weeks that was driving the world crazy. You've got the southern border. As you say so accurately, nobody is crossing the border.

When you start reading all the tea leaves, he's setting up the game. You got a president who is swinging for the fences. You got a president who is punching.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now this -- I should admit, this is my former office that I was a prosecutor in. But you worked alongside Pirro. Is she qualified for this position?

CARLSON: Well, look, you know, she was the -- the county attorney in Westchester County just outside of New York City. She was a judge. The -- I guess my question would be that she hasn't practiced law for -- for 20 years now. I'm assuming that she has kept up with her CLE credits that you understand you have to do if you want to be a practicing attorney. I'm assuming that she, you know, still is being acknowledged by the bar.

But that would be -- my major concern is that she has just been out of touch with the system. But I don't think that that's President Trump's qualifications because he tends to look for people who are fawning over him, which she does a very good job of.

COATES: Why do you think -- I mean, this is a -- there's a -- you can find a lawyer probably every inch in Washington, D.C., let alone all across the country. It's a huge country. Many capable people who could serve in the administration. Why do you think Trump is so focused on Fox News personalities?

CARLSON: Well, I think because he watches it so frequently. So, he feels like he knows these people intimately even though he -- he might, in some cases. But in other cases, he just feels like they are loyalists to him. I also think, though, that there's a prior relationship here that people may not know about. I mean, Pirro and Trump have known each other for at least 30 years. And one of the last pardons that Trump did in his former administration was for her ex-husband, who used to be a lobbyist for Trump. So, you know, there's an interesting dynamic here.

The most surprising thing to me, though, is that I think that Jeanine Pirro thought she might actually become attorney general in this administration. And so, why I'm surprised tonight that she would actually leave, you know, a very plum assignment at Fox News and maybe not be confirmed simply as -- as a U.S., you know, district attorney in D.C., not the attorney general.

I think it may be a risk for her because as Trump's nominees go more on, I think, the votes are going be harder to get. You look at Pam Bondi. She sorts of sailed through.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

CARLSON: But would the votes be the same today knowing how she has acted as attorney general? I don't think they would be. So, I think it's a tougher sell now for a Fox News host or anyone that Trump is nominating.

COATES: Quite the gamble you described. We'll see how it pans out. Gretchen Carlson, thank you.

CARLSON: Thanks for having me.

COATES: Next, why did Vice President Kamala Harris lose? Why did Biden actually drop out? And what about all the talk of a cognitive decline? Well, tonight, former President Biden tells the world in his own words the answers to those questions in an interview that may be reopening old wounds for Democrats. We're going to get into all of it next.

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[23:40:00]

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COATES: The questions many of us were asking when President Joe Biden dropped out of the 2024 race were sort of answered today. He sat in the hot seat on "The View," his first major interview since leaving office. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: What is your response to these allegations, or are these sources wrong?

JOE BIDEN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They are wrong. There's nothing to sustain that. The Democratic Party at large didn't buy into it. But the Democratic leadership and some of the very significant contributors did. I was sick. I was -- no excuse. But I --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): It's an explanation.

BIDEN: It was. And I -- I had a bad, bad night.

UNKNOWN: Yeah.

BIDEN: And -- and I had -- anyway, I'm not going to --

UNKNOWN: Did you immediately know you had had a bad night?

BIDEN: Yeah, I did. The only reason I got out of the race was because I didn't want to have a divided Democratic Party. It's a simple proposition. And so that's why I got out of the race. I thought it was better to put the country ahead of my interest, my personal interest. I wasn't surprised because they went the route of -- the sexist route of the whole route. I mean, this is a woman. She's this. She's that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:45:00]

COATES: With me now, Erin Maguire, former director of press communications for the Trump 2020 campaign, Chuck Rocha, former senior adviser for the Bernie Sanders 2016 and 2020 presidential campaigns, and Chris Whipple, author of "Uncharted: How Trump Beat Biden, Harris, and the Odds in the Wildest Campaign in History."

Chris, I want to begin with you because you just heard Biden denying allegations of cognitive decline. He said the reason that he dropped out was solely because he didn't want a divided party. Now, you spoke to former Biden -- Biden allies for your book, who say otherwise. What's your reaction?

CHRIS WHIPPLE, AUTHOR: Well, you know, Joe Biden is right when he says that the reason he dropped out was because of the Democratic Party leadership. I mean, I write all about it in "Uncharted," those final days at Rehoboth Beach in that fateful weekend of July 2021 -- 2024. You know, the truth is that his closest advisers were ready to die on that hill with Biden and -- and run for reelection.

And -- and the at the end of the day, the reason he dropped out is because they knew that come Monday or maybe Tuesday at the latest, Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the Democratic Party leadership would go public with what they had already been saying privately. So that was the gun that was pointed at Joe Biden's head and the reason ultimately that he got out.

COATES: You know, Chuck, he was -- he was doubling down as well, that he still believes that he could have beat Trump in the election. He didn't have the donors, did not have the party leadership behind him at all. But his poll numbers against Trump also said otherwise. I mean, do you agree that Biden had a shot?

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER FOR BERNIE SANDERS'S 2016 AND 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS: I worked on 25 House races and four Senate races, and had polling in each one of them saying that he wasn't going to win. That's why he got out. The people around him told him that.

COATES: Hmm.

ROCHA: But him relitigating this so quickly after he got his butt whooped is not good for none of us trying to turn the page.

COATES: Why is he doing it, by the way?

ROCHA: I think he's doing it because there's fixed to be a whole bunch of books coming out saying that there was a whole bunch of people trying to cover up that he wasn't ready to run. And folks that are like -- well, Kamala Harris only had a hundred days. I get all that. I've run campaigns for 35 years.

Look, the Bidens are gone, the Obamas are gone, and the Clintons are gone. Democrats, you got a chance to rebrand and start over. Let's do that. I think he does us no favors every time he goes out there and starts talking about this.

COATES: Erin, one of the things he said is, you know, he was asked why he -- why he thought Vice President Harris lost. And one of the things that was -- he wasn't surprised because Republicans -- quote -- "went the sexist route." What's your impression of that?

ERIN MAGUIRE, FORMER DIRECTOR OF PRESS COMMUNICATIONS, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN: I think that's a deeply offensive comment and one that's completely out of line with the reality of how the votes shifted in this country.

Yes, more men moved towards Donald Trump, but he picked up demographics across the board, including growing with Black men, because not only did Joe Biden say that it was sexist, but he also claimed that it was racist, that she wasn't elected here in the United States.

Joe Biden, I think, is doing great work for the Democrat Party, keep reminding the American people of his failures, keep trying them out. He's trying to rewrite the history of his failures the same way a lot of these reporters are out here writing these books now, trying to say that they didn't know at the time what everybody saw with their American eye -- with their own eyes.

Joe Biden was in decline. For him to say, like, I had a bad night, no, you were like that all of the time. And now, everybody is trying to rewrite their own history to cover for the failures of a man that should not have been president.

COATES: Of course, Democrats and Republicans rewrite a whole lot of history. But let me ask you on this, Chuck. When you look at this, do you think that Biden is accurate when he points to sexism or racism for why she lost?

ROCHA: There's a lot of reasons why she lost. Most of it was she -- she didn't have a message that resonated with the American people. It's pretty easy. You can sugarcoat this all you want to, even to my Democratic friends.

The thing that worries me the most is not Joe Biden. Joe Biden is going to go away. He's going to retire. He's going to be down at the beach like he loves riding his bicycle. What I worry about is his consultants and folks around him. They're not going away. Today, his consultants that work for him and Kamala Harris are running every major Democratic Senate race and governor's race in the country, and they'll run the same playbook they ought to.

Listen to me, Democrats. We have to get back to talking to working people like I was, the reason I joined this party, if we're going to have any success.

COATES: You know, Chris, Biden was asked about his relationship with President Obama. He didn't really answer the question. What does that signal to you?

WHIPPLE: Well, you know, look, it a complicated relationship. And at the end of the day, as the walls were closing in, it was -- it was really Shakespearean. I mean, the -- he really felt absolutely betrayed by Barack Obama. I never forgave him, of course, for putting his thumb on the scale for Hillary Clinton in 2016.

But his best friend, one of his best friends, told me that the thing that really got to him in the end was that while Barack Obama was maneuvering behind the scenes, he never picked up the phone, called Joe Biden and said, hey, listen, buddy, are you sure about this, and shared his reservations about him as a candidate.

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And -- and I'm not sure that he'll ever get over that.

COATES: Erin, you know, as much as Biden is talking about this election, Trump has also focused on Biden recently and has continued to attack him on a regular basis when taking questions on his own record, as you know. Do you think voters still care about this dynamic between the two of them?

MAGUIRE: They will care to the point that Democrats don't have a leader of their party right now. So, it is whoever is making the most noise in the Democratic Party. Today, that is Joe Biden. He went on "The View" and did an interview. He went on BBC. He keeps making himself the talking point of the Democratic Party.

So, every time, yeah, voters are going to have to see that contrast because he's the one leading the party right now. If it's Nancy Pelosi or AOC or Bernie Sanders or anybody else, right now there is a leadership vacuum in the Democratic Party. So those contrast points, every time Joe Biden puts himself out there, absolutely, totally fair to do, because right now, that's the face of the Democratic Party.

COATES: Is there any way that Democrats could seize on the contrast between Biden and Trump? They are very different figures.

ROCHA: Look, as a consultant, you want to seize on what's happening in Congress, what's happening every day. You -- to win an election, you have to give the voters reason to fire the Republicans, which we've been doing for eight or 10 years.

But the thing we've been missing is, why should you hire us? We got to do both at the same time. If we're going to win in the midterms, we're going to win in the midterms. The question is, how much? Is it by a little bit or is it a lot?

That's what's going to happen in the next 12 to 16 months, is that message after. Does a real leader emerge within our party? Do we do things a little bit different to get noncollege educated brown guys in cowboy hats to start voting for Democrats again?

COATES: There's a Biden question, really, that whoever emerges as a leader and, frankly, as the midterms approach, Democrats are going to have to answer the Biden question. It doesn't seem to be going away, including his own statements about it. How should they answer the Biden question?

ROCHA: Say it is time to move on. The Bidens are gone. The Obamas are gone. I'm telling everybody right now, it's a new day. I wrote an op- ed yesterday that I hope gets published tomorrow that says, look, the first thing you have to do is admit that we do it down the wrong path and that we're going to re-center our party where the party started with its values to get guys like me again to vote for this party who work with their hands every day.

Regular folks are hungry. They're aggravated with the Republicans right now because they're really -- there's a lot of uncertainty, but they want somebody to say, I'm with you, and I will help you.

COATES: Everyone, thank you so much. Up next, it's time for a new "Laura Coates Live" segment we're calling the "mocktail." And tonight, we're stirring up the viral Mount Rushmore trend.

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COATES: Well, tonight, it's time for a "mocktail" where it looks like the news -- but is it? In a world where the powers that we are trying to redefine history and decide what we should really consider to be our national treasures, I bring you the latest debate, Mount Rushmore.

No, this time, it's not about which president to add or subtract or search for another mountainside to carve out a space for the remaining 40 something.

While you're checking your math about double counting those who serve more than one term, I want to introduce you to the new faces that would be a reimagining of the iconic landmark that is now becoming a viral trend. Forget presidents. How about Houston rap Mount Rushmore? Yes, that is Beyonce on there. Or Mr. Beast's YouTubers Mount Rushmore, you thought of? Or what the Daily Signal called "The Left's Mount Rushmore? Or the Disney Channel Mount Rushmore? I mean, even Ben Affleck and Jon Bernthal got into the game.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON BERNTHAL, ACTOR: What's the rapper Mount Rushmore?

BEN AFFLECK, ACTOR: Depends if you're talking about historical or like -- I mean, you know, I think Wayne should be on it. But I also think that, like, you're talking about, like, Eazy-E today. Talking about, like, back, you know, when we were young. I mean, you know, a lot of the talk about, like, well, slick Rick or, you know. I mean, of course, there's, like, Kendrick right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Right now, there's more. Many more. There's a proposal to have Mount Rushmore of streamers and country music. Don't kill the messenger. And my personal favorite, the official funk Mount Rushmore.

So, brain rot aside and free time aside, what does this newfound trend actually tell us? Is this all pure escapism or is it a social commentary mocking outdated ideas of who we ought to revere and in what space our icons actually ought to occupy? I mean, perhaps, it is no surprise that it's all outside of Washington, D.C. And perhaps no surprise that nearly none of these include politics.

Now, it is easy to try to dismiss all this as satire and accuse people of overthinking some viral trend. But, you know, there is a hidden truth that's worth exploring. People, they want to see themselves and their passions reflected in the world around them. They also see a rejection of the monolith or perhaps a reminder that what one person values is not the same as the other. And so be it.

Now, all these are lessons for a political climate that is criticized for its many divisions, as many as there are iterations of Mount Rushmore now, in a country that dictates E pluribus unum.

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Out of many, one.

Thank you all for watching. CNN's live coverage continues.