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Laura Coates Live

Laura Coates And Guests Discuss The Latest In The Federal Trial Of Sean "Diddy" Combs; Laura Coates Interviews Sketch Artist Christine Cornell. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired May 20, 2025 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: When I was thinking of getting into television punditry, I asked an old supervisor for some advice, and they said, well, I mean, you should think about this, they'll never choose someone like you. And instead of being mad at them, though, I'm sort of grateful for it because I was, like, "F" off, I'll show you. I mean --

(LAUGHTER)

And here we are --

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Here we are.

JENNINGS: -- years later.

(LAUGHTER)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Haters going to hate. Everyone, thank you very much. Tnanks for watching "NewsNight." You can catch me any time on your favorite social media X, Instagram, and TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, guns, cash, and drugs. The new dramatic testimony at the heart of the prosecution's case on a special edition of "Laura Coates Live: Diddy on Trial."

Good evening and welcome. I'm Laura Coates right here in New York City tonight, and it was a packed day seven in the trial against one Sean "Diddy" Combs. And today, guns and money, well, they took center stage.

In just a sec, we'll ask our legal experts and court insiders how today's testimony may have advanced the prosecution's case, and there's certainly a lot to get through tonight.

The prosecution tried to connect the dots between Diddy's business and his alleged abuse of Cassie Ventura and another victim. How? By using witnesses to try to link Diddy to firearms, cash, and control.

We heard from a male escort who said Diddy controlled everything about the "freak-offs" with Cassie. And Cassie's mother, she also took the stand, testifying about taking a home equity loan out to wire Diddy $20,000.

Now, the last one on the stand today, he tied Diddy to some pretty serious weapons. Remember that 2024 raid on his home in Miami Beach? Special agent in charge testified that he found parts of AR-15 rifles in Diddy's master bedroom. He says the serial numbers were also scratched off.

Police also found items that others previously testified would be present at "freak-offs": high heels, sex toys, baby oil, Astroglide, and lingerie.

And speaking of those items, tonight, we're seeing images from the first time of what investigators found at the New York Hotel where Diddy was arrested last year. They seized -- perhaps you guessed it -- baby oil, lubricant, drugs, and cash.

Now that lines up with what Diddy's former assistant testified to today at trial. Now he said he was tasked with stocking Diddy's hotel rooms, but he said he didn't go through the company to get reimbursed for these supplies. Instead, he went to Diddy's security team and claimed that they would pay him back in cash from the rapper's Louis Vuitton bag.

He also testified that the bag could hold $10,000 or more in cash, telling the court, I just think because they were items that he didn't -- he didn't want to have a record for.

Now one of today's other witnesses was a male escort known as "The Punisher," a nickname, he says, comes from his basketball playing days. He took part in Diddy's "freak-offs" with Cassie as well, and he said Diddy would direct all aspects of those encounters.

The escort testified -- quote -- "Diddy would at some point come into the room, sit in the distance, give subtle directions to Ms. Ventura based on, like I said, angles, lighting, positioning, and sometimes the sexual activity."

We also heard from Cassie's mother, who testified about a payment that she wired to Diddy after Cassie told her that he was threatening to release two sex tapes. Cassie's mom said Diddy asked her for money around that same time to -- quote -- "recoup" money that he had spent on her daughter.

The prosecutor asked -- quote -- "Why did you go to the bank and take out a $20,000 loan? Cassie's mom said, I was scared for my daughter's safety. She was asked what she needed $20,000 for. She said, to pay Sean Combs. And when she was asked why she needed to pay Sean Combs, she testified, because he demanded it.

Now the prosecution made a bombshell reveal over who we can expect to testify this week. They plan to call Scott Muscudi. You know him as Kid Cudi. Remember, Cassie testified that Diddy got irate when he found out she was dating Kid Cudi. The prosecution also plans to call a clinical psychologist as well as a former Diddy employee who quit, apparently, after allegedly witnessing physical abuse.

Get right to CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister, who saw all the testimony in the courtroom today and has been following so closely. The assistant, the former one, David James, took the stand today about an incident that could have actually turned tragic, and it involved arrival of Diddy, Suge Knight. Describe.

[23:04:55]

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, with putting this witness on the stand, it appears that the prosecutors are really trying to get into this racketeering claim, showing that they alleged Diddy was running this criminal enterprise through his businesses.

So, this former personal assistant, he worked for Diddy from 2007 through 2009. He was hired by Bad Boys, so an employee of that company, of course, the company that Diddy was the head of.

Now this instance that you brought up, he told this story to the jury, which was after a late-night recording session in the studio, it was about 3 or 4 a.m., and Diddy said he wanted some late-night food from Mel's Diner, a famous place in Los Angeles.

So, they go to Mel's Diner. It's the assistant and one of Diddy's security personnel who they call D-Roc. They get there and they see Suge Knight. As you said, Suge Knight, of course, is a longtime rival of Diddy.

Well, they go back to Diddy's home in the Hollywood Hills. This is when the personal assistant said he actually saw Cassie outside the home fighting with Diddy, arguing, basically pleading for him not to go. But Diddy wanted to go.

So, according to this former assistant, Diddy said, we're taking this car, drive the car. They get in the car. The assistant says he turns around, looks in the back seat, and Diddy has three handguns on his lap. That is what he testified today.

COATES: Hmm.

WAGMEISTER: They go back to the diner. Suge Knight is no longer there, but he said that Diddy was demanding, yelling at him, saying, keep driving around. He wanted to find him. Now, again, nothing happened because he wasn't there.

But here's what the assistant said on the stand. Quote -- "I was really shook up by it, you know, this was the first time being Mr. Combs's assistant that I realized that my life was in danger." He said that right after that, he actually put in his notice at the company.

COATES: He stayed for about six more months to try to train his replacement, but that was really the end for him of why he wanted to work there. That was the only witness today, though.

We actually heard from Cassie Ventura's mom, which the defense didn't want to hear from. And a lot of people thought, I wonder why she's testifying. Would it be gratuitous in some way? Would she move the needle in either direction? But she talked about being scared for her daughter's safety. And this $20,000 loan, what happened?

WAGMEISTER: So, let me get to that in a second. But first, I want to read you an email that was shown to the jury as an exhibit in court. This is an email that Cassie sent to her mother --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WAGMEISTER: -- and Capricorn Clark, who was one of Diddy's employees.

COATES: Under an alias. Right?

WAGMEISTER: Under an alias, yes. Here's what she wrote: The threats that have been made towards me by Sean "Puffy" Combs are that he is going to release two explicit sex tapes of me. One on Christmas Day, maybe before or right after, and another sometime soon after that.

He also said that he will be having someone hurt me and Scott Muscudi -- you said Kid Cudi -- physically. He made a point that it wouldn't be by his hands. He actually said he'd be out of the country when it happened.

So, Cassie's mom testifies on the stand, when she read this email, she was physically ill.

COATES: Hmm.

WAGMEISTER: And, of course, she would be. This is her daughter. She's scared for her life. So then, she said that Diddy demanded that she pay $20,000, as you said, because he was upset that Cassie was with another man. That would be Kid Cudi. And he said, I spent $20,000 on your daughter, so you better pay it back.

Now you have Diddy who at one point was a billionaire, but at this point, at least, is worth hundreds of millions of dollars --

COATES: Yeah.

WAGMEISTER: -- and is allowing the mother of his girlfriend to take out a home equity loan to wire the money. He accepted that money. But then, he sent it back. Now I want to bring up one more exhibit.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WAGMEISTER: There are photos of Cassie with bruises on her body that were shown to the jury, and Cassie's mom said she's the one who took those photos of her daughter when she visited home for Christmas.

COATES: It's pretty unbelievable to think about the dynamic of Sean "Diddy" Combs asking someone for $20,000.

WAGMEISTER: Uh-hmm.

COATES: The intonation, of course, that he returns it later once Diddy and Cassie were back together in some way. What about Kid Cudi? Are we really going to hear him testify?

WAGMEISTER: We are, according to prosecutors. This was, as you said, the big reveal today. So Kid Cudi could be on the stand as soon as tomorrow, Laura. We may be seeing him tomorrow. If not, they said Thursday, but definitely this week, he is expected to testify.

Now, what will we hear from him? We're going to hear probably a corroborating account to what Cassie said which, as I just kind of got into --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WAGMEISTER: -- she was dating Kid Cudi for a brief moment in 2011 when her and Diddy were what she said was on a break but a rough patch. They were together very briefly, then her and Diddy got back together.

But Cassie testified last week that when Diddy found out that she was dating Kid Cudi, he got enraged. He threatened her safety, as we saw in this email, and he even said that he wanted to blow up Kid Cudi's car.

Now Kid Cudi has said -- around the time that allegation came out, which first was revealed in Cassie's civil suit back in November 2023, Kid Cudi said that is all true.

So, it'll be pretty amazing to see that moment in court if he confirms in front of the jury that his car was blown up.

COATES: This is unbelievable. We have so much to unpack because I want to talk to the lawyers about how they're viewing this and how they're seeing this, the prosecution gets some gains and the defense.

[23:09:59]

Come with me, Elizabeth, because I want to talk to our power house of legal minds. We have got some good minds in the building today. We've got Joey Jackson. Of course, we have Sarah Krissoff. And also weighing in, we've got Stacy Schneider.

Look, day seven, as I get on this chair --

(LAUGHTER)

-- day seven was packed. It was packed with different witnesses. The mom was testifying. You had a male escort. You had a special agent from the human trafficking division down in Miami. Pretty significant.

Sarah, I want to start with you because it ended today with that Homeland Security agent. Pretty significant to have that person there. He revealed the items that were found at the home in Miami Beach, Star Island, talking about where he lived very lavishly. It included parts of AR-15s. Why is the prosecution presenting evidence like that? If there's not a stand-alone charge in the indictment, it's all under the RICO and sex trafficking and prostitution. What could this bring?

SARAH KRISSOFF, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: So, I think they are putting these witnesses and particularly that special agent in place today to really corroborate the testimony that we heard last week and even early this morning from the assistant.

So, they're -- they had the assistant saying, hey, I saw Diddy with those guns, but there's really no corroboration for that other than the assistant's testimony. They don't -- there are no pictures. There are no text messages. There's nothing like that.

And so, they're juxtaposing that testimony with the testimony of the special agent who's saying, hey, here -- this is a gun, look at what we found in his house, these parts of AR-15.

COATES: Yeah.

KRISSOFF: So, they're sort of using that to support and buttress the testimony of James among the testimony of other witnesses.

COATES: You know, I wonder about this sweet spot, when you're corroborating too much. When you -- you try to have this layer of corroboration, this layer, and this layer. It's very important, and I think people don't realize how methodical a prosecutor has to be to dot every I, cross every T.

But Joey, there were moments when I was watching in court today during this. You know, there's a script you got to do if you want to introduce evidence into a court of law. And the script is not sewn on law and order. It's not the boring one everyone sees.

(LAUGHTER)

It seems like it's much more fast paced. I was wondering at some point in time about that pace. It was slowing the jury down to go from I got, you know, a sex human trafficking person here, 80 to 90 agents on the scene, now let's walk through the exhibits and give the whole script. How does that momentum factor in for how a jury or defense presents?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Very important. I had a judge tell me one time, look, this is my Broadway show, if you entertain me, we're going to be fine.

(LAUGHTER)

If you don't, we're in trouble. Jurors want to be engaged.

COATES: Yeah.

JACKSON: And the way and the flow of that information is how you engage them. Now let's talk about why all of this information came in. It came in because of RICO. Right? So, they have to establish he's this bad guy running a criminal enterprise.

How do you do it? You talk about AR-15s that are, you know, scratched off. You talk about all these things about drugs. Right? All of these, you know, arson. He was going to get Suge Knight. He was looking for him, as Elizabeth said. He had these guns in his lap. What does that have to do with sex trafficking?

The concern I have is that this is not the typical manner in which we see a RICO prosecution. Right?

And the concern with regard to that is, yes, he has done horrific things as I've seen the bruising, his bad behavior is awful, but does it amount, and that's going to be a jury question, does it amount to a criminal enterprise or does it amount to a person who was very successful in his own right as a music mogul, who went to a dark side, and who was doing pretty freaky things? Whether they're criminal or not will be a jury determination.

But at the end of the day, eye on the prize. The basis for all the introduction of this is RICO, and then you get to the issues as it relates to this sexual exploitation, and that is the issue of this whole coercion versus consent, and all the witnesses are designed to support the notion --

COATES: Yeah.

JACKSON: -- that Cassie was not consenting, she was coerced, she was under his control, and that gets you the trafficking charge.

COATES: All right, we got the guns. What about the money? Right? You're talking about the $10,000 in a Louis Vuitton bag.

You've got Cassie Ventura's mother who has -- I mean, having her tap to take out a home equity loan to pay somebody who right now, after all of this, is still valued at $400 million, according to Forbes magazine and beyond, that she's taking out this loan, how does that factor in? Is this gratuitous to show a bad person or is this something about that RICO charge?

STACY SCHNEIDER, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR, U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT: I think bringing in the mother was prosecutorial overkill.

COATES: Really?

SCHNEIDER: Yes, because the defense is going to argue that he was a jealous boyfriend, and he was acting like a big jerk, and he called the mother up and said, I give all this money to your daughter, and I take care of her, and I dress her and all that, and I want $20,000.

And what does that have to do with running a business enterprise and committing alleged crimes with using the resources of that business enterprise to engage in sexual activity --

[23:15:06] COATES: Is that why --

SCHNEIDER: -- with a girlfriend?

COATES: -- the defense didn't cross?

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

COATES: Because they didn't say -- they got up there and didn't say anything.

SCHNEIDER: To me, that was the most interesting part of the day --

COATES: Hmm.

SCHNEIDER: -- is that the mother got up and gave this really devastating testimony about Sean Combs's behavior. It's horrific, what he did to the mother and put the family through, and she had to go get a home equity loan on the spot to protect her daughter.

But the defense said, thank you for coming, ma'am. I don't have any questions. And that's very significant because the defense doesn't think that has anything to do with the federal charges of racketeering conspiracy and sex trafficking that he's charged with.

COATES: But it also, Sarah, could be -- you know, no one wants to be viewed. We talked about the optics of a pregnant Cassie Ventura testifying on the stand and -- and having to approach it with -- through the eyes and lens of a juror who would conflate who she was when they were together with who the pregnant woman is today. No one wants to be seen beating up on a mother in a courtroom.

Is it a signal to the jury that she was insignificant for the charges or was it their notion of saying, look, this happened, we already told you he's domestic abuser, we're going to leave this alone so we can preserve our credibility?

KRISSOFF: It's probably both of those things. Right? And first, the other thing they are doing, and we are sort of you don't hear this in the course of the testimony, but the defense is objecting to a lot of this testimony even coming into the trial. Right?

So, they're laying the foundation ultimately for any appeal to argue this evidence should not have come into this case in the first place.

But they're doing -- they're making a strategic decision not to cross- examine the mother both because sort of the optics of that aren't really great. Right? And -- and they think, you know, really, she hasn't offered anything that's -- that is, you know, hugely devastating to us that we need to rebut.

COATES: Speaking of optics, it's kind of like before you go on a diet and you want one last chocolate sundae.

(LAUGHTER) Diddy knows he can't get arrested. And in his hotel, they find the items that are going to ultimately be inventoried, things and evidence of a "freak-off." It's all in the courtroom today. How did that play in the courtroom, to know that some of the items that were found in his home are similar to what was found in New York? You got the consistency.

WAGMEISTER: You know, the jury was very engaged at that moment, I have to tell you. And we --

COATES: Uh-hmm. I bet.

WAGMEISTER: -- we've talked about this. It's really hard to tell what the jury is thinking. This jury, they have a good poker face, I have to tell you, but they were engaged. You have the special agent on the stand swiping through all these photos that one after another.

And I think the jury already understands that the prosecution has painted this picture that Diddy loved baby oil. He did a lot of drugs. Like, I don't think that was surprising, but I think it was just seeing the actual photos that were taken by a special agent. And on the night of his arrest in New York --

UNKNOWN: Right.

WAGMEISTER: -- I remember that night, September 2024, when I got a call from a source that he was arrested. We broke it here at CNN. And then his attorney gave me a statement saying he knew this was coming. He came to New York. He was prepared. It's exactly what you said, Laura. If you are prepared to get arrested --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WAGMEISTER: -- you have illegal drugs in your hotel room? Now, they may say it's not illegal to have a "freak-off" --

JACKSON: Yes.

WAGMEISTER: -- but it is illegal to have drugs in your room.

JACKSON: But here's the issue. Now if he conceals it, now you have a person that comes in and gives evidence. Hey, guess what? On the night I went to his hotel room, I cleaned up the drugs, I cleaned up the baby oil, I cleaned up this, I cleaned up that. He was obstructing everything. You can't -- you know, it's a shield and a sword.

COATES: Hmm.

JACKSON: And so, if you clean it up, you have evidence of a person who comes there to testify that Diddy was -- it goes to consciousness of guilt. He knew he was guilty, so he got rid of it. Leave it there. It's not illegal to have a party. It is illegal to coerce people into sexual activity. That's a jury question, as to whether he did it.

SCHNEIDER: And there is one more side to that, really quickly. The defense is also going to say everything he's doing is terrible, but it's in his personal life. It's not part of his business enterprise. He's in his personal hotel room.

Yes, if it's stupid, you're about to be arrested and to have all these things, but this is all his bad personal behavior. This has nothing to do with a racketeering conspiracy.

And they're going to hone in on that over and over again with all of this minutia that comes in on his every move and possession of what's in his bathroom, what he's drinking, what he's eating, how he's refreshing himself after a "freak-off." It's a little bit overkill, but we'll see, we'll see what else is coming.

COATES: Look, he's presumed innocent. The prosecution has to connect the dots. Is it overkill or just not? Stand by, everyone. There's much more to get to tonight, including that firsthand account from Diddy's former assistant. His testimony painting at times a very dangerous and highly-paranoid environment, even claiming that Diddy would use lie detector tests. Another one of his former assistants is standing by to explain it all next.

Plus, controversial testimony is set for tomorrow. The clinical psychologist from the Amber Heard and Johnny Depp trial is set to take the stand.

[23:20:00]

What's she going to say? And could her testimony make or break the case, and for whom?

And later, what would make Diddy laugh during this trial? Well, our sketch artist will reveal the moment tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Now, according to former assistant, David James, Diddy put him through his cases, including a very intimidating lie detector test after Diddy's belongings went missing. He was tasked with buying personal items that the music mogul didn't want to have a record for.

[23:25:01]

To the tipping point, an incident involving rival, Suge Knight, that left the former assistant shook up and realizing his life was in danger, just to name a few of the bombshell revelations, of course, in today's testimony.

With me now, Suzi Siegel. She was Diddy's personal assistant in 2008 and 2009. She appeared alongside David James in VH1's reality show, "I want to Work for Diddy." Well, let's get right to it because you -- you did work with him.

SUZANNE "SUZI" SIEGEL, DIDDY'S FORMER ASSISTANT: I did.

COATES: What do you know about him? What was it like to hear him testify that he feared for his life?

SIEGEL: I mean, he was so put together and was sort of teaching us the ropes, giving me a hard time about sometimes not being professional enough and buttoned-up enough. So now to look back through the lens and think that this man who I thought -- I thought had it all together was scared for his life --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

SIEGEL: -- you know, I have to go back and sort or rethink what I experienced.

COATES: Is this stunning to you, when you're trying to rethink about those moments in time? Are you truly shocked that there's this -- there's like a disconnect between what you thought was happening and what was happening?

SIEGEL: Yes. I mean, what I feel like is I -- I never felt in danger, but I felt scared. And there was this feeling of fear that was pervasive on many different levels.

COATES: Hmm.

SIEGEL: So, for me, it's interesting. It's like -- and I -- I heard David's testimony today that first, he was afraid he was going to lose his job. We were all always afraid we were going to lose our jobs. We were afraid that we were going to, in some way, make him unhappy.

But what was the veiled threat? Did I think that there was, like, machine guns around and automatic weapons? No, I didn't know that was happening, but there was this sense of fear that wherever Diddy was, people were sort of cowering around him.

COATES: What about this revelation that there was lie detector tests being administered? Had you ever seen something like that occur either through him or other employees?

SIEGEL: I'd never saw a lie detector test. However, there was always a lot of valuable stuff around --

COATES: Hmm.

SIEGEL: -- and so many people in and out. You know, I remember Cassie's very expensive clothes hanging in a closet. There were laptops around. There were people in and out. I think one time a laptop went missing while I was there --

COATES: Hmm.

SIEGEL: -- and people did come to me and say, what did you see? What did you -- so, it was impossible to keep track of all of the personal valuable items.

COATES: Was that paranoia that motivated the questions towards you or was that just the idea that he had been harmed or robbed before?

SIEGEL: I mean, it's hard to say. Right? It's, like, a lot of people on his staff and everybody came out of neighborhoods where things got stolen. Right? And there was violence. So, there was always just sort of a sense that the neighborhood was also in the office as well.

COATES: Hmm.

SIEGEL: Right? I mean, a lot of people came from, I think, backgrounds that probably -- you know, there was fear in their background. So, I don't know if it bordered on paranoia but, certainly, I felt like I need to be really careful with all of the things in the office, but knew ultimately, if things went missing, there was nothing I can do about it.

COATES: He always had security with him when he traveled out in fear of what happened, presumably, to his best friend at the time.

SIEGEL: Yes.

COATES: Biggie?

SIEGEL: Yeah. I think -- I mean, obviously, the whole world knows about what happened with Biggie and Tupac. And so, of course, there was always a question and this sort of cloud around the fact that there was violence and who is responsible for it.

So, while all that was always happening in the background, at the same time, this man was a spokesman for a huge, you know, vodka brand and was, you know, an Estee Lauder person, and was doing, you know, reality T.V. Right? So, it's like in some ways, there was all of this very legitimate business happening where it was hard to parse that there could still potentially be, like, people running around in cars --

COATES: Yeah.

SIEGEL: -- with guns, especially after the J. Lo incident. You would think, like, okay, that almost tanked a lot of careers, that maybe people would have gotten a little smarter around it.

COATES: Hmm.

SIEGEL: But, apparently, that was not the case.

COATES: Do you carry a lot of cash on?

SIEGEL: You know, I did not. There was always cash around. I mean --

COATES: I mean, they're talking about 10,000 in cash in Louis Vuitton bags.

SIEGEL: You know, it's funny. I carried that Louis Vuitton bag once --

COATES: Really?

SIEGEL: -- and I did not know what was in it. Only once. I was not his personal assistant. I was in the office as sort of an executive assistant.

COATES: Yeah. SIEGEL: Mr. Combs's office, you know, that kind of thing, ordering him lunch and travel. But one time, I did -- I did have to go -- maybe they were short on hands and legs, I did have to go to a hotel. You know, we all sort of knew it's probably something freaky. We used the word freaky. We never used the word "freak-off." Maybe he was doing something freaky in there. Who knows? He's a rock star. Whatever. Right?

COATES: You went to the hotel and do what?

SIEGEL: To pick up his bag and fetch him and get him back to his place where he lived. He had a condo that was nearby. And so, it was -- it was a sort of a hazing environment in the office, you know.

And so, it was like -- I remember him saying, like, make Suzanne carry the bag, you know. And I was, like, okay, I'll carry the bag. It was heavy, I'm a small person but okay, fine. There was no big security around at that point. We just had a couple blocks to walk, but I had that LV bag on my arm. I had no idea what was in there.

COATES: Sounds like a lot of people are learning a lot about that experience, yourself included. Suzi, thanks for being here.

SIEGEL: You're welcome.

COATES: Continue to help us unpack this.

[23:29:57]

And you can hear much more of my conversation with Suzi Siegel on my new CNN podcast, "Trial by Jury." It's available wherever you get your podcast.

Up next, Obama-shaped ecstasy pills? A new testimony about the scope of drugs that Diddy was alleged to have used and abused for years. All this as his lawyers begin to lean on a defense around his addiction. Does the alleged behavior line up with his dependents? I'll ask a top addiction expert that very question.

Plus, she's the clinical psychologist who might help answer one of the critical questions in this trial. Why did Cassie not leave Diddy sooner? Is the jury weighing that right now? So, how will the defense handle her on cross? Well, tonight, we gather clues from her time in the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WAYNE DENNISON, ATTORNEY FOR JOHNNY DEPP (voice-over): In fact, you never met Mr. Depp. Have you?

DAWN HUGHES, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: I have not.

DENNISON (voice-over): But you purport to be able to assess the relationship between Mr. Depp and Ms. Heard?

(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: You know, it's a topic that has come up time and again in the courtroom, drug use. Over the last seven days, we heard a wide range of drugs mentioned by the witnesses. Opiates comes up often. Cocaine, ketamine, MDMA, Xanax, Ambien, mushrooms, marijuana, GHB, and psychedelics. And that's just naming a few of them.

And today, Diddy's former assistant, David James, testified that Diddy would take Percocet by day and ecstasy pills by night. But not just any pills. James was asked on the stand, what did the pill look like? Answer, there were various pills, but there was one that was in the shape of a former president's face. Which former president? President Obama.

Well, joining me now is Adi Jaffe. He is an expert on addiction and the author of "Unhooked: Free Yourself from Addiction Forever."

Adi, welcome. The substances allegedly used in these "freak-offs" were pretty -- well, wide variety. And that assistant --

ADI JAFFE, ADDICTION EXPERT, AUTHOR: Yeah.

COATES: -- testified that he would take Percocet and ecstasy day and night. Describe the effects that that would have on a person and how this might be relevant to this case.

JAFFE: Yeah. Interestingly, in a -- in a way that's very relevant for this case, the more addictive drugs seem to be the drugs that he used during the day. So, Percocet are opiates. We've heard about opiates for the last 10, 15, 20 years.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

JAFFE: Highly addictive. Once you get used to taking them regularly, you sort of have to keep taking them where you get incredibly sick.

But the drugs that are more related to the sex capades, the "freak- offs" that we keep hearing about, are actually more the GHB, Ketamine, and Ecstasy. You know, we talk about GHB as the date rape drug. It really helps loosen inhibitions. Interestingly, unfortunately, it can be used to loosen somebody else's inhibitions without their control.

Then we know of ecstasy, molly. MDMA is often called -- called the love drug. Right? So, it's a drug that people use -- by the way, even in therapeutic settings, it would greatly reduce inhibitions.

COATES: You know, Cassie described a lot of the drugs that were used as well that she personally used. And you have to wonder, with the defense, what they're going to do with this conversation about addiction. But I wonder, what does this kind of drug use suggest to you about Sean "Diddy" Combs, perhaps Cassie? What? JAFFE: Yeah. I mean, obviously, I have no direct contact with --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

JAFFE: -- Sean Combs or anything like that, but I have to say that when I heard GHB and ecstasy as two of the drugs that were often used in these "freak-offs," it does lend itself to the idea that he could manipulate other people, Cassie in particular in this case, to do things she wouldn't have done if she wasn't under the influence.

I'll say GHB, in particular, at high enough doses, and Ketamine as well, can essentially incapacitate a person when they are no longer in control of their behavior.

COATES: She testified about asking him or was read her text message about asking which drugs should I take and asking what color and that she also described her own addiction. And the defense keeps questioning witnesses in an attempt to suggest that Diddy was an out of control addict, not some master manipulator of a big enterprise or current enterprise.

But based on your experience, is the behavior that he is alleged to have exhibited, is that in line with someone who was that addicted to these types of drugs?

JAFFE: Well, there are two questions here. Number one, the question about addiction to drugs. The second about the specific sexual behaviors that he kept engaging in. Right? So, both of those can lend themselves to compulsive addictive behavior.

The thing that I think we do have to keep in mind is oftentimes, people who have addiction issues can be manipulative, can lie and can obfuscate the truth with others close to them. But there's a level of manipulation here, especially with the use of drugs like GHB, Ketamine, etcetera, that could go far beyond the level of explaining this because of compulsive behavior and are more manipulative.

COATES: Really important. Adi, thank you for breaking it all down for us. I've learned a lot. My panel, they're back with me and one of the things that we're going to learn about is not only more drug use, I'm certain of it, but also a clinical psychologist who is expected to testify. This is a person named Dr. Dawn Hughes, and she could take the stand.

How are they going to use her testimony? Because you've got this idea of opioid use. You've got the idea of drug addiction, violence, this lingering question of why she stayed in the relationship.

[23:40:02]

Was it a mixed motivation for why she was there as well? How do they use it, and what are the risks?

JACKSON: Yeah. So, first of all, Laura, wow, what an education we just got about drug use. Right? He lays it out. I'm surprised that a person like him wouldn't give testimony. But I think in cases like this, when you hear from these psychologists, they explain behavior.

There are some things that people do, and we may question. Right? For example, Cassie and why she didn't leave, why she didn't take other actions, why she might have not just said no.

And I think psychologists like this who testify explain behavior. They explain why it is a person who might feel victimized or may not seemingly be coerced because you've had these text messages with her indicating, I can't wait for another "freak-off," etcetera, I think they're here to explain that.

I think the downside to that is whether or not, in cross-examination, well, did you actually speak to Cassie? Do you have any idea about who she is as an individual? Would it be fair to say that not everybody is the same? That people can exhibit different tendencies?

And so, these psychologists are very powerful, right, because they're experts to otherwise tell the jury --

COATES: Right.

JACKSON: -- the course of conduct.

SCHNEIDER: Right. And -- and -- and to Joey's point, like, this type of expert, this is a general expert. This is not a specific expert. Like he said, the first question that's going to come out of defense attorney's mouth is, you never met Cassie Ventura. You know, so-called expert. You've never treated her. You have no way of knowing what was going on inside her head at that time. And they're just going to wipe it out that way if the jury tends to believe that.

COATES: And by the way, before you continue, I wanted -- we have this luxury. We've heard her testify in the past. Not in this trial --

SCHNEIDER: Right.

COATES: -- but in the Amber Heard-Johnny Depp one. I want to just play for you sort of that testimony to give the audience a feel for what we might hear tomorrow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGHES: Intimate partner violence is a pattern of manipulation, fear, and coercive control that happens within an intimate relationship. It constitutes using a variety of abusive behaviors, and that can be physical violence, sexual violence, psychological aggression, emotional abuse, stalking or surveillance behaviors, and economic abuse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: That was part of the point, the idea, the general versus the specific. She did not actually treat either Amber Heard or Johnny Depp in that scenario. She has been in other trials as well. But given what Stacy is talking about, Sarah, what's the risk as a prosecutor of bringing in a more general expert to provide that type of testimony? KRISSOFF: Yeah. I mean, the jury may say, what does this have to do

with what I'm seeing? Right? And I'm -- I know relationships. I'm an experienced person. I'm -- I'm allowed to make those judgments, I'm the finder of credibility here, and now I have the prosecution sort of preaching me about, like, how I'm supposed to interpret this relationship.

COATES: So, how do you counter that as a prosecutor?

KRISSOFF: Listen, I think they have to do some of this type of testimony because they want to explain the complexities of an abusive relationship. And to some of us, that -- those complexities may be apparent. And we know them and we understand. To others, it might be something that's very foreign to them.

So, I think they have to, in some way, explain the sort of inconsistent behavior for Ms. Ventura and -- and, you know, put it all within this framework of an abusive relationship.

COATES: What about the timing, though? Go ahead. The timing of it. Obviously, Cassie Ventura --

SCHNEIDER: Yeah.

COATES: -- testified probably earlier than maybe most people thought she would. But she was also, like, due to give birth in, I'm sure, a matter of days, if not weeks.

SCHNEIDER: Right.

COATES: So, that might be the factor. But with her going this soon into the trial, does that shock -- shock you? The psychologist.

SCHNEIDER: I -- I think that no, it doesn't, because they want to keep her the psychologist's testimony close in time to Cassie Ventura's testimony. But again, I see even a bigger problem with bringing in this general psychologist, in that in this particular trial, we have Cassie Ventura's words and thoughts at that time in her text messages and her emails and her conversations that she has testified about to the court. And that's evidence --

COATES: And she said those words. She does say those are just kind of words when she was trying to please him. That factors in a few or not?

SCHNEIDER: That's hugely important actually for the defense. And again, I'm speaking as a defense attorney. The fact that she's trying to please him is evidence. In my mind, if I were on that jury, that they are in a consensual adult relationship, and she was trying to please her lover, her boyfriend, whatever that is. That is the opposite of being coerced into activity that you don't want to perform.

COATES: Well, we'll see what the psychologist offers about that issue. But Kid Cudi might testify tomorrow. This is somebody who was in relationship with her, and Diddy was irate about it. What could he offer in his testimony? JACKSON: You know, I -- I -- I think that actually can help the defense. And why do I say that? I think that it gives contact to the relationship.

[23:45:00]

Right? It's a fact that he's a pretty jealous guy. That is Sean Combs. And as a result of that, maybe his actions were predicated upon jealousy. The end, nothing more, nothing less.

COATES: Hmm.

JACKSON: So, when people are jealous, they fight, they get upset, they say they're going to blow up your car, they take $20,000 from you because they want you to take out a home equity loan as he did to his mom. Right? And so, they engage in that, and that's the specific purpose. So, in my view, it could ignore to the benefit of the defense by showing he was jealous that she was with another man.

COATES: Another aspect of it could be that the defense could show, look, she was able to date other people. She was not trapped in this way. Of course, prosecution will come back and say, sure, as long as he wanted his car not to be blown up and money wasn't exchanged. So, it's going to get both ways. I'm eager to hear what he has to say.

Thank you, everyone.

Still ahead, our daily eyes and ears in court. Sketch artist Christine Cornell tells me about the moment that made Diddy laugh in court today, the witness who stared Diddy down, and the new signs of nerves she witnessed in that chilly courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE CORNELL, COURTROOM SKETCH ARTIST: He had his hands up, and he's rubbing them like, and blowing them like he was sitting at a campfire or something, and then actually doing one of these things. So, I was going, like, okay, it was full, but I thought that might have been magnified by some stress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[23:50:00]

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COATES: Now before we go tonight, let me give you a taste of what it was like inside the courtroom today with several key witnesses testifying. How did Diddy react to each one?

Earlier today, I caught up with our courtroom insider, Christine Cornell, the sketch artist behind the images you've seen throughout the show. She has been keeping a close eye on all the action. Here's our conversation. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I'm here, of course, with our eyes and ears inside of the courtroom that does not allow any cameras. We've got Christine Cornell, the courtroom sketch artist. Today was a big day. You had the mother of Cassie Ventura come in. I watched her right there.

CORNELL: Tiger mama.

COATES: Tiger mama. What was that like to have her there? What was she doing?

CORNELL: She's the only witness I've seen who tried to actually stare down Combs.

COATES: Really?

CORNELL: Yeah.

COATES: Oh, describe that moment.

CORNELL: I just saw her as she's walking out of the room. She just keeps glowering at him. I can't tell you that he was engaging, but I can say that she's not afraid of that man. I love the story about how she was trying to hit him.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

CORNELL: Getting her -- her daughter's phone back.

COATES: Yeah.

CORNELL: And he gives her back the phone, and then steals the car, which is like --

COATES: When she was describing that and that entire scene, let alone trying to hit him or even seeing bruises on her daughter's body, describe what her body language was telling you. What did it look like?

CORNELL: That mama was very aggrieved.

COATES: Really?

CORNELL: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she had really just learned that -- that Combs was abusing her daughter. And she wanted those pictures for evidence. She was -- she wasn't going to let him get away with anything. She was -- as I said, she was a militant on her -- on her child's behalf.

COATES: When she was sort of glaring at Diddy, was she trying to get his attention, and did he ever look back?

CORNELL: I didn't see him looking back. I think she was just trying to throw scorn at him. COATES: Hmm. Talk to me about what it was like to have a former assistant there as well because he talked a lot about what it was like to work for Diddy. He talked a lot about how he would go and retrieve different things, bring them to parties, among other things. What did his demeanor tell you? Was he nervous to be in that courtroom?

CORNELL: Well, he told us, when he took the stand, that he really had not wanted to be there.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

CORNELL: You know? I thought it was interesting to find out today that he actually quit, Diddy, after he was expected to go along on a little, you know, escapade with guns, that involved guns.

COATES: That was the Suge Knight-Mel's Diner incident that he described later on.

CORNELL: That's right. That's right. And that's where he drew the line. Although he gave him, like, a time --

COATES: Right.

CORNELL: -- before he quit.

COATES: To train his replacement.

CORNELL: To train his replacement. Isn't that charming?

COATES: What did Sean "Diddy" Combs do when he took the stand? Because, obviously, being the assistant, they're going to have a level of closeness, familiarity, and --

CORNELL: Right.

COATES: -- I would assume this is somebody who at least has a skeleton key. The skeleton is in your closet. When he walked in the courtroom, took that stand, did you notice anything about Sean "Diddy" Combs?

CORNELL: I just know that during the testimony, he was doing a lot of nodding.

COATES: Really?

CORNELL: Yeah.

COATES: An affirmation or almost pacing?

CORNELL: Just -- you know, he was -- you know, remembering all these same things that were being talked about. I didn't -- I didn't -- I didn't get any enmity between them.

COATES: How about that male escort --

CORNELL: By the way, when his assistant told the story about bringing home a prostitute who then wanted to be paid 200 bucks, and then he told her he's going to charge her 200, that made Diddy let -- take a shower. That made Diddy laugh out loud.

COATES: Because guards of his had been taking girls home unbeknownst to him supposedly, right, for that testimony. Talk to me about the male escort who testified. He described everything from the sexual encounters, the sexual experiences, how he was hired to erectile dysfunction. Everything was there in that conversation. What was Diddy doing while that was being described?

CORNELL: Diddy was, actually, I think, the most engaged I've seen him.

[23:55:00]

COATES: Really?

CORNELL: He was kind of tapping his foot on the ground. Like, his whole thigh was going boom, boom, boom, boom. And his hand was also hitting his thigh. It seemed to me that they're -- you know, somehow that these -- these arrangements were actually very charged, and that he still felt some of that, even hearing this guy talk about it.

COATES: Christine, you had a bird's eye view closer than that. Thanks for joining us as always.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Thanks for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.

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