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Laura Coates Live
Laura Coates and Guests Discuss the Latest in the Federal Trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs; Individuals Connected to Israeli Embassy Shot in D.C.; Officials Give an Update on Shooting of Israeli Embassy Staff. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired May 21, 2025 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: A battle over expert testimony, the most contentious yet as the jury and now the world sees brand-new photographic evidence against Sean "Diddy" Combs, tonight on a special edition of "Laura Coates Live: Diddy on Trial."
Good evening and welcome. I'm Laura Coates right here in New York City tonight where I was inside court for day eight of Diddy's trial. And today, we saw fireworks over the prosecution's first expert witness.
In just a moment, my team of legal experts and court insiders will take us through all of it and how the jury may be piecing together an even bigger picture from what we've already heard.
And there's a lot to get through. The prosecution and the defense, they sparred over the testimony of a forensic psychologist. Prosecutors also released dozens of new photos, seen by the jury, revealing what police seized in the raid on Diddy's Miami Beach mansion. And the judge signed an immunity order to force Diddy's former executive assistant to testify.
But here's the big question tonight: Would a jury, the actual jury, connect the dots between the explanation of a trauma bond and the world that Cassie Ventura said that she lived in?
The prosecution called psychologist Dawn Hughes to explain why Cassie may have stayed in an abusive relationship with Diddy for years. The judge had already ruled that she could not talk about coercive control, but she could discuss more broadly why victims may choose to stay in violent relationships or feel like they could not leave them.
Hughes testified -- quote -- "When you're getting unpredictable abuse and unpredictable love, that creates this intermittent cycle. It's like a slot machine." She went on to say, "You keep going back because you want that good feeling, they want that good partner that they got, fell in love with, and that becomes an immense trauma bond."
Now the defense repeatedly pointed out how Hughes had not reviewed any evidence in this case. More on that in a moment. But on redirect, the prosecutor finished with what you might call a kind of illegal mic drop. She asked Hughes if she had been retained broadly by defense attorneys. She said, yes, of course. The prosecutor then asked, in fact, have you previously been retained by any of the defendant's attorneys here in this case? She responded, yes, I have.
Now she wasn't saying that it was actually this matter with Sean "Diddy" Combs. The defense attorney she's talking about was Brian Steel. And his legal team later said that Steel, in a different case, chose not to use Hughes as a witness in that case that he was on at the time, and the client that he was dealing with was a victim of domestic violence herself.
Now, that testimony will be a lot for the jury to unpack and try to pull apart so will all the evidence taken from Diddy's mansion in Miami Beach just last year. Police seized parts of AR-15s. Some had their serial numbers scratched off. They found a loaded handgun. There were high heels, a lot of them. Also bottles and bottles of Astroglide and baby oil and lubricant. And police discovered an assortment of drugs, including ketamine, cocaine, and MDMA.
The special agent in charge of that raid testified about all of it, including six people on the property who were briefly put in handcuffs.
Now the last witness of the day was Diddy's former executive assistant, George Kaplan. Now he tried to plead the Fifth to protect against self- incrimination. But the judge, by granting him immunity, paved the way for him to actually go on the stand.
And once he got on the stand, he testified about getting his boss drugs at times. He testified about setting up and cleaning up Diddy's hotel rooms. He stocked them with clothing and candles and liquor and baby oil. He bought some of these room supplies, he said, with his corporate credit card and cleaned up the rooms after Diddy left before the maid service came in.
Now why do that? Why do it before the maid service comes in? Well, because Kaplan put it this way: Protecting him and protecting his public image was very important and that was something I was very keen on doing."
Now Cassie testified that Kaplan quit after seeing Diddy abuse her. Now we haven't heard that from him yet, but he is back on the stand in the morning.
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And you know who else prosecutors plan to call? Rapper Kid Cudi. Recall that Cassie testified that she was once in a relationship with him, and that sent Diddy spiraling into a jealous rage.
Back with us tonight, CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister, who witnessed all the testimony in court with me today, even following along so closely. So, talk to me about this forensic and clinical psychologist. I mean, it was very pivotal for her to come in and try to explain this looming question of why might someone stay because Cassie's credibility might be questioned for those who don't understand why.
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: This was a pivotal witness for the prosecution because these sex crimes, they can be very confusing for a jury.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
WAGMEISTER: There's a lot of gray area. This is not black and white. So, she came on to testify to some of the behaviors that are common among all trauma victims, whether that is a victim of domestic violence --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
WAGMEISTER: -- of sexual abuse, even of something totally unrelated to this. And that was key for the prosecution because she said, I am not related to this trial, I have not met with anyone, I have not met with the defendant, Sean Combs --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
WAGMEISTER: -- I have not met with any of the government's witnesses such as Cassie. So, she came into this, what she said, as a blind witness, but she did corroborate what Cassie and some other witnesses have said.
For instance, there was one part that really stuck out to me, Laura --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
WAGMEISTER: -- when I was sitting there in the courthouse. She said that -- quote -- "It may be curling up in a ball on the floor." That was something that she explained for a common behavior that could be seen by a victim of domestic violence. She's basically saying they may curl up on a ball on the floor so that they basically stop the violence that is happening to them.
Now why this stood out to me is because I remembered that this was very similar to what Cassie testified to --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
WAGMEISTER: -- what we saw in the video that our team at CNN broke, that hotel surveillance video, when she curled up in the fetal position, and we went back to some other testimony. Dawn Richter or Richard rather, you remember her, she said about Cassie -- quote -- "She went into the fetal position." The security guard, Israel Flores, from the hotel said Cassie was bundled up in the corner. And Kerry Morgan, who was Cassie's best friend and testified to corroborate her account, she said -- quote -- "She was like a loose fetal position.
So, I do wonder if the jury connected those dots of this psychologist to say, huh, even though she's not talking about Cassie, that sounds familiar, maybe now I understand more some of the behaviors of Cassie.
COATES: And there were a lot of objections, almost as if her vocabulary was so precious because of those details that the defense did not want that jigsaw puzzle to come into full view if they were relating to that.
There were also moments, though, when she, the psychologist, talked about the coping mechanisms that are used and how one decides to tell about the abuse and also about the returning to the relationship.
Describe to me a little bit about the way in which she talked about a domestic abuse victim not feeling as though they could escape even if they wanted to.
WAGMEISTER: Yes. So, she said that a lot of domestic violence victims, they can feel trapped in the relationship.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
WAGMEISTER: That is the word that she used. She said that these relationships often begin with love, so these victims can want that love. They are yearning for that.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
WAGMEISTER: So that could be one reason why they come back. Another reason is financials. She explained that oftentimes --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
WAGMEISTER: -- the abuser will control all the finances in a relationship, and that is their way to control the victim. This was another ah-huh moment for me, a light bulb moment where I said, hmm, that's what Cassie testified to. Looking down at my notes from court, Cassie said that Diddy controlled her rent, her cars, her clothing, her travel, and even cash. So, again, I wonder if the jury said, huh, that sounds familiar.
COATES: There's a lot more to unpack, including that next witness, George Kaplan, who'll be back on the stand tomorrow. The assistant will unpack that.
I want talk to our great legal minds as well. So, follow me over to the table because we've got some really great conversations ahead. We have got defense attorney Joey Jackson, who is with us today. Also, former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District Of New York where, of course, this trial is taking place, Jennifer Rodgers, and defense attorney, of course, Stacy Schneider is here as well.
All right, we got a lot to unpack, so let's get right into it. And I want to begin with you, Jennifer. This is your old office as well. You heard from the expert witness, Dawn Hughes, this psychologist who was testing as a blind -- testifying as a blind expert, meaning she did not know Diddy, didn't know Cassie Ventura, and she was trying to paint a picture in general terms.
How does this play for a jury? Because I got to tell you, there were so many objections today, keeping her on the tightest of leashes. She couldn't get into many things. It had to be generalized. JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, I think it's really powerful.
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I mean, I think the reason you saw so many objections is because the defense realized that the jury was making those connections that Elizabeth was just talking about. Right? They're saying, oh, credit cards, oh, rent, financial control. Yeah, we heard all of that from Cassie Ventura.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
RODGERS: So, there's no question it's very helpful for the government's case, harmful to the defense's case. I was a little surprised to see it, to be honest. I haven't seen that kind of testimony come in very often. So --
COATES: Why were you surprised? Because they even let it in?
RODGERS: Exactly. I think it's really, really uncommon. I -- I haven't seen anything like it before. I mean, an expert usually does that case. Right? Looks at the documents in your case, if necessary interviews, the witnesses in your case to -- to draw on and to then --
COATES: But there are subject matter experts, right, who could -- who could maybe talk about more broadly. But you're saying, what was odd was that she had not reviewed, had not talked to these people. And what's the intimation that by failing to do so, she was overgeneralizing and, therefore, not having credibility? Because that's what the defense wants to go with.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. So, this is a big deal. And to Jen's point, if I'm the judge, I don't allow at all. Now, it's a gamechanger. Why? Because I think inquiring minds want to know, right, what was the coercion? If this is about sex trafficking and not a freaky relationship, it's about the fact that I coerced you to do this. It's not --
COATES: But you can talk about coercion.
JACKSON: Yes. I get it. But inferences are drawn. If you're controlling everything, if you're behaving as a victim in this way, if you feel in love with someone and you have this mold of a person, right, who if you're a victim of this violence, you tend to act this way, what is the inference that's going to be made?
COATES: Uh-hmm.
JACKSON: Right? A duck by any name is a duck. And so, the reality is, what does the defense have to rely on? The defense has to rely on the fact that you did not interview this specific witness.
Not every witness is the same. We don't live in a cookie cutter society. You never met, right, a defendant who you testified for. You're always testifying for the victims. You're a hired gun in this particular situation. You've met with the prosecutors at multiple times, and you've coordinated your testimony such that those dots could be connected. That's a defense argument.
But the fact that she testified, very powerful, for the prosecution and if the jury draws those inferences of coercion, there is problems in Diddy Land.
COATES: But, Stacy, the prosecution, they wanted her there.
STACY SCHNEIDER, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR, U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT: Yes.
COATES: Obviously. They wanted to make the case that she was this blind expert. Yes, she's getting paid. They said $600 an hour, $6,000 a day, which on the grand scheme of things for expert testimony is on the lower end, perhaps, of some of these very, very high-profile cases or private matters, more broadly, where the government is not the one putting bill.
But there is a pro of having her as a blind expert. It takes a little bit of sting out of maybe bias that I know this case. I need my findings to be parroted in the courtroom?
SCHNEIDER: Yeah. I mean, I feel like the prosecution used this witness to backdoor bolstering Cassie's credibility, and it wasn't really needed. I mean, Joey had some good points about it, but I feel like we had four days of a pregnant Cassie Ventura on the stand. She was probably the most sympathetic witness on the planet --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
SCHNEIDER: -- describing what she endured in -- what she alleged to have endured in that 10-year relationship. And then to come -- come in and bring this general expert who is paid -- and by the way, the defense brought out that this particular expert trains victim advocates to testify in courtrooms.
COATES: Meaning, she's a professional --
SCHNEIDER: She's a professional witness. And it's a little bit artificial. I'm not sure that that subtlety will go over with the jury because, again, the prosecution is focusing on the domestic violence end of the case, and that's sympathetic and it's horrible, and everybody is moved by that.
But again, going back to what we've been saying all along, all the attorneys from the beginning of this case, this is about, can the government prove racketeering conspiracy and sex trafficking? And the more that the government hones in on domestic violence and all the attributes of victims of domestic violence, they take a little bit away from their case, and that's my opinion, looking at it, from the defense perspective.
COATES: Let's talk about the racketeering in RICO because they're going to have to make those jumps and connect the dots about this inner circle, the enterprise. And they brought on George Kaplan who -- we were in the courtroom. He did not want to be there. Let me just tell you. He wasn't like, hey, pick me, I'm glad to be here. He was a little bit resigned. He was answering questions, but he was also there because he was granted immunity. He had already taken the Fifth. He did not want to incriminate himself.
But having him on to talk about his role, his duties as an assistant, setting up these hotel rooms, using corporate credit cards to be able to purchase some of these items, does that move needle for you at all?
RODGERS: Here's what I'm waiting for. I'm waiting for another voluntary, willing member of this conspiracy to come in. And this guy, so far, hasn't become that. Maybe he does tomorrow. Maybe he says, yeah, I knew what we were doing, I knew we had an illegal object, I knew the object was all of these sex parties and this illegal stuff.
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But he hasn't said that yet. And you cannot be a conspiracy of one. So, at some point, they don't have to have this person on the stand, but they have to identify at least a theoretical someone with whom Diddy has conspired, and that's what I'm waiting for.
COATES: Even without having to charge the other person, they can mention that.
RODGERS: Correct.
COATES: But, you know, on the stand today, as we as we're watching, I mean, he was describing things that corroborated the testimony we've heard. Everyone knew by the time he got in the stand. When he mentioned baby oil, everyone went, this was a "freak-off" he was setting up, whether he knew that or not.
WAGMEISTER: Right. And I think for the jury, at this point, they have heard the word "baby oil" more times than anybody can count. So, there's two schools of thought. Right? Are they becoming desensitized to Diddy's alleged habit, or is this really painting a picture of what Diddy's world was?
Now, of course, having baby oil is not illegal, but if that baby oil is a supply that's necessary for the "freak-off" that he coerced women like Cassie into, and if the jury believes that, that's the key.
So, I think the prosecution, it appears from both of us being, you know, in the courtroom every single day, they keep honing in on this pattern. I think they're trying to show no matter where he was, no matter who he was with, this is what he was doing. But, again, it is a lot of the same.
COATES: And they have to prove, of course, their enterprise, if there was one, was helping him to do that.
UNKNOWN: Right.
COATES: We have a lot more to unpack, more than baby oil.
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Stand by, everyone. There's so much more to get to, including the details of that dramatic raid on Diddy's Miami Beach mansion. A federal agent is describing it for the first time, revealing what they uncovered inside. How the operation was orchestrated and why -- what may -- and what may have triggered the investigation in the first place.
Washington, D.C. where there has been a deadly shooting near the FBI field office. Sources tell us that two people were killed, and at least one of them is believed to be connected to the Israeli embassy.
These are pictures near the shooting scene right now. You can see there's a heavy police presence there. This would only say they are investigating a shooting. Israeli's ambassador to the U.N. took to Twitter to call it an act of antisemitic --
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COATES: We are back with the breaking news out of Washington, D.C. A deadly shooting being investigated right now, where we're told two people were shot and killed, and at least one of them is believed to be connected to the Israeli embassy.
CNN's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller is joining us right now. This is coming in fast and furious. What do you know?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So, first of all, everything we're going to be reporting is preliminary because, as you know, from our own experience, you know, this information may shift and change.
But what we've been told by law enforcement sources is that this was an event at a Jewish museum in Washington, D.C., at Third and F Northwest, that the crowd was leaving the event, apparently, that an individual opened fire.
COATES: Hmm.
MILLER: We are told that an Israeli diplomat was hit. Another one was hit. So, you have at least two people shot. You have three other people injured. Those numbers can shift. We are told there are fatalities, at least one. And we are told that the gunman, according to witnesses, fled on a motorcycle. So --
COATES: Hmm.
MILLER: -- if you take what we have, sketchy as it is, it paints a picture of something that appears to be targeted. It was at an event at the Jewish Museum. It appears to be planned in advance. You have a gunman who witnesses say fled on a motorcycle.
And obviously, this is a major event in terms of this has drawn in the FBI, elements of the Secret Service, obviously, the Washington D.C. Metro Police, and a major investigation unfolding right now as they review video, license plate readers, talk to human witnesses, and try to reconstruct what happened in this --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
MILLER: -- event which, apparently, unfolded extraordinarily quickly.
COATES: And why would the nature of this event have drawn in so quickly that breadth of law enforcement?
MILLER: Well, if, you know, you look at the climate, fears of antisemitism, incidents that are occurring right now in the Middle East, in the sphere of Israel and Gaza, tensions that have been rising since, terrorist propaganda that has been out there calling on people to take an action, what you have is a perfect storm that can lead to something like this.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
MILLER: And what -- what they will be digging into is, was there an individual on a motorcycle? Is that the same person as the gunman as witnesses suggest? If so, is that individual part of a highly-planned operation with a number of people and part of a terrorist operation, or is it, as we've seen more often than not, a lone wolf who put together a plan based largely on being inspired or radicalized over the internet or in person? These are not answers, these are questions.
COATES: There are many of them. We have the DHS secretary, Kristi Noem, who has just tweeted, two Israeli embassy staff were senselessly killed tonight at the Jewish Museum in Washington, D.C. We are actively investigating and working it -- working to get more information to share. Please pray for the families of the victims.
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We'll bring this depraved perpetrator to justice.
People should understand, John, this is, you know, not in the outskirts. This is really central in Washington, D.C., a major metropolitan area. It's not that late at night. There was an event that was happening. Presumably, the event was either publicized or at least enough people there that they knew there was an event going on.
And when you're looking at all this unfold, you know, besides the surveillance of the street footage and what's going on there, when do you turn to figure out cell phone data in the area? Who may have seen what the person looked like? Was there more than one person? How did this investigation unfold at this very infant stage?
MILLER: Well, first, you start with the live witnesses before they disappear into the ether. Then you do the canvas for the ones who fled or left, or you may find the next day by appealing literally through the media like this to say, if you were there, if you saw something, if you were filming or videotaping with your phone something else, and you may have caught this.
While all that's happening, the go to is those cameras. There are cameras at that Jewish Museum, and they're pretty good. But there are also cameras that may be available from the house across the street, an embassy up here, a traffic camera.
COATES: Sure.
MILLER: You've got to collate all of those together and then see, do we see the gunman? Do we see the gunman fleeing? What's that direction of flight? Can we then track by the cameras and, hopefully, from an investigative standpoint, any license plate readers? Motorcycle licenses are harder.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
MILLER: Along the way that will give them something. Is there a stop? Is there a switch car? Are there other people involved? You really have to take the technology for that.
In the meantime, there are people right now, as we sit here in Washington, D.C., down at my old office in the NYPD, who are logging on to those computers and going those sites to gauge the reaction, to see if there's a communique --
COATES: Hmm.
MILLER: -- that has been posted. Has any person or group claimed responsibility? So many wheels start to turn simultaneously between the FBI, D.C. Metro PD, their people on the Joint Terrorism Task Force, even the NYPD, which will start reacting to this because of nothing more than you have a large number of high-profile Jewish targets in New York City, as many, if not more than Washington, that they will be pushing resources to right now and throughout tomorrow till they get a handle on what they think we have going on.
COATES: I want to bring in CNN senior national security analyst Juliette Kayyem to the conversation. You know, John and I are talking about the steps that will immediately be taken to try to cast a very wide investigative net domestically. But we're talking about people from an embassy as well. We're talking about a net that could go internationally as well.
When you're hearing about what has just happened and the details are coming in quickly, we're going to bring everyone what we have as soon as we have them as they're unfolding, what is your take and analysis about what the steps will be to determine what happened and whether there were additional targets or anything?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So, I mean, I -- I don't disagree with the thing that John has said. We are in an environment in which the Jewish community is in fear of rise in hate crimes and antisemitism. And these public gatherings are both, you know, ways in which a community feeling under threat gets together but, of course, celebrations. Some of the things are preliminary.
And I'm just going to accept what Secretary Noem, secretary of Homeland Security, said, that the two people actually killed were both embassy staff. And that's just a data point that's worth noting in terms of what's the likelihood, what's the percentage of people there that were from the embassy, why only those two. Apparently, the ambassador was not there.
So, in terms of investigation, you're really looking at was this quite targeted on Israeli staff of the embassy who are here in the United States.
The second piece is the motorcycle. As John was saying, that's somewhat -- that's -- to me, that's just the (INAUDIBLE). That's just a sophisticated hit, so to speak. The person will be able to get around D.C. traffic, evade identification. It's harder to do so with a motorcycle.
And so, you are going to look at a planned attack and one that could have planning, not just domestically but, of course, internationally.
And so, this is a -- this is a -- this is a terrifying thing for the Jewish community, for people in D.C., but it also has this really disconcerting wrinkle or aspect to it that would make you inevitably need to look to the possibility that there was a foreign terror attack in the United States targeting Israeli diplomats.
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And that is rare. It is -- it shows a certain amount of planning and ability to do so. And -- and -- and innovation. I mean, we are now -- you know, each minute that passes, there's more time for this person to get away. So that's where the investigation is going to lead.
I just want to say one more thing. We'd would be curious. A part of the investigation is going to be, because this was a public gathering with Israeli officials, how public was it? How do people get access to it? Those are the questions we're going to want answered because in terms of the deliberative nature of this -- of this assassination, essentially, and this attack on the Jewish community, do you -- what kind of notice was out to the public in terms of the threat?
COATES: Juliette Kayyem, we have so much information to learn on this. We know the attorney general was on the scene as well at the shooting. She tweeted out about this along with the new U.S. attorney from Washington, D.C., the interim one. Jeanine Pirro as well.
We're going to see a press conference. We're waiting on one to start. You can see that the lectern and podium is already up. Hopefully, we'll get more information about the latest details that we all need to know.
We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we'll unpack all that we know right here.
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COATES: We're back with the breaking news out of Washington, D.C. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem says that two Israeli embassy staff were shot and killed at the D.C. Jewish Museum. Authorities are expected to give a news conference any moment now.
John Miller, Juliette Kayyem are back with me. They are joining. And joining us is a retired FBI supervisory agent, Daniel Brunner, as well.
So, let me go to you quickly on this, too, because we are hearing details. They're unfolding very quickly. We're waiting on this press conference to begin. But based on the information that we have so far, give me your investigative mind here. What are your concerns about a shooting like this in the nation's capital?
KAYYEM: Was that for me? Yes. So, come -- let's just from the beginning. This was clearly a targeted attack against Israelis and Jewish, the Jewish community, Jewish-American, as well as Jewish- Israeli.
So, this is -- you start from that basic fact. This is not just a random gathering of people. We know the environment. We know the global environment.
So, your investigation is going to take a bunch of different -- to a bunch of different places. One, you're going to take a step back. What kind of threat environment existed for this event? How much was known about who would be there?
We have some confirmation that the people who were killed were -- were -- were employees. We don't know how high up of the Israeli embassy. So, this is an attack against Israelis at an American-Jewish event.
And so, that fact makes -- would also make you want to investigate what kind of foreign threats or foreign planning may have gone into this. You just simply can't deny it. It's just too much of a coincidence to think that an attack on a -- on a Jewish gathering happens to kill, right, two Israeli diplomats.
So, you're going to look at a very sort of targeted investigation about what's against them and what we might know from the outside from foreign intelligence. So, it's not just a homeland event. This is now taking on all sorts of investigation abroad.
The second is, of course, the fact that this clearly seems premeditated not just because of the -- of the attack and the ability to -- to -- to kill the Israeli embassy employees, but that the person escaped on a motorcycle. That is -- that is -- feels more like an assassination in terms of how we know these things look and will be investigated as such.
The impact of this is, of course, not just with Israelis.
COATES: Yeah.
KAYYEM: It's with -- it's with the Jewish community here domestically.
COATES: Let's go to John Miller on this, too. You are learning some information as we're sitting here as well. Let's just remind the audience what has happened. What we do know so far is that two people believed to be connected to the Israeli embassy were shot this evening, just really moments ago. There is a huge law enforcement presence from across the spectrum.
MILLER: Two people shot, at least three others injured. Not clear if they were also shot or injured in whatever occurred as a result of the shooting. According to the Israeli ambassador in Washington, there is at least one fatality, perhaps more. We don't know the answer to that yet.
At this stage, we had also heard about witnesses saying the gunman may have fled on a motorcycle. I would couch that in saying, we also know from these incidents that some people will see a motorcycle speed away and say that must have been the gunman.
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Some people will see somebody running in a different direction. So, all of this is very fluid in terms of the information we're getting.
And that huge presence, you know, as -- as was already pointed out, you've got a planned event, apparently, going at the museum. You have people attending it. From a targeting standpoint, if -- if you were targeting the Jewish target of the museum or the crowd or particularly the potential of diplomats from the museum, depending on what advance information was out about what the event was going to be, who would be attending the event, all of these are factors that go into -- into the planning piece that -- this is the kind of thing security people worry about --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
MILLER: -- which is, how much advance notice do we have? How much detail has been given? How much intelligence can an offender gather simply by going to the website when they're already in the mindset of potentially doing an attack?
COATES: I want to go to Daniel Brunner on this as well and invite you into the conversation because, again, we are waiting for this press conference. It's going to presumably give us more information. But we are in the infancy of this entire investigation.
You know, John is talking about what happens in terms of the domestic angle. Of course, Juliette is speaking about the more broader context internationally as well given who this has impacted, and you don't know everyone yet.
But what do you do now in terms of the online chatter, the idea of trying to figure out who might be responsible and whether there was some motivation that the law enforcement needs to ascertain in order to figure out if this is it?
DANIEL BRUNNER, RETIRED FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL: Well, there's going to be a lot of factors that are going to this investigation right now. So, there's a lot of information coming in. A lot of people -- like John just said, a lot of people who see a motorcycle, a lot of people who see somebody else, an individual wearing jean.
So, a lot of times, these initial reports are not exactly accurate. So, we need to wait until it really gets sifted out and find out exactly -- like you said, look online to see if there's online chatter.
Right now, right across the street at Washington field office, there's going to be a crisis command post set up. And there's going to be analysts, there'll be agents, and there's going to be evidence response. And everybody is going to be -- it's going to be an all hands evolution to literally look at every single piece of this.
One of the things that strikes me in -- in learning about this, this exactly what John said, was this a publicized event? So, is this a targeted attack to the facility and to the people, or were these individuals that were hit, they were specifically targeted? So, I'd be looking at everything.
Was there a lookout? Was there somebody advanced? Because if these two individuals that were deceased were the targets, there had to be someone on the lookout to identify when they're coming out. If this was just a random attack because of an Israeli situation in an Israeli event, then that has to be looked at. Who was looking at these events?
And there's going to be IP addresses. They're going to be looking at everything: the data, the metadata, online chatter, you know, communications. Were there overt threats before this?
COATES: Hmm.
BRUNNER: And -- and identify, you know, the individuals. Was this a targeted attack against the individuals who died or the event itself?
COATES: We are waiting for this press conference to give more information about what they know at this state of being right now. The attorney general, Pam Bondi -- remember, this happened in Washington, D.C., the nation's capital where you have all these different agencies, including those who are part of the kitchen cabinet (ph).
The attorney general, Pam Bondi, tweeting just moments ago, I am on the scene of the horrible shooting outside the Washington, D.C. Capitol Jewish Museum with U.S. Attorney Pirro -- of course, Jeanine Pirro, who was recently named the interim of Washington, D.C. in the U.S. Attorney's Office -- praying for the victims of this violence as we work to learn more. We've heard from Kristi Noem, secretary as well.
Juliette, let me ask you. This is the nation's capital this has happened in. Obviously, in most cities across the country, if there is a shooting of an individual, the local police department will be the one to spearhead what's happening. The nation's capital is different. The presence of the FBI, the fact that this is already involving the United States attorney general, what does that tell you?
KAYYEM: Well, this will be led by the FBI not just because of the jurisdictional issues, but also clearly because of the nature of the attack, not just where the event that was focused.
But the Israeli embassy has released that -- that -- that the -- their employees were killed at -- at a short range. And so, these are just pieces of evidence that we know now. This is what they're stating. We have to, you know, figure out what exactly happened.
[23:44:53]
But when the embassy says that, they are clearly chewing to the outside world, that they view this as an attack on, essentially, the Israeli embassy, Israelis, the consulate, the ambassador. All of them would -- are impacted by this.
And so, all of a sudden, you're having, without even needing to think too hard about it, sort of international implications because we do protect diplomats. Diplomats and their staff ought to be protected here.
So, this -- this is in D.C. There's -- there's jurisdictional issues in terms of, of course, it's going to involve D.C. police because it's going to be the streets and investigation. But in terms of the lead and the investigatory lead because of the foreign nexus, it is clearly going to be driven by the FBI as it should be.
But when I saw the Israeli embassy statement that their employees were killed at close range, this is their statement, we haven't confirmed it, that -- that strikes me as a very targeted attack against Israel and its diplomats that has -- that is -- that is consistent with the antisemitism that exists here and worldwide, but has a very different feel in terms of the investigation than if this were a synagogue, say, in another state.
That's just the way the investigation is going to look at this. It's all part of hatred, of course. But because of the -- of who the victims seem to be right now, specifically, the investigation is going to be very targeted on that nexus.
COATES: We are hearing from the -- the Israeli -- Israel's ambassador to the United Nation, excuse me, Danny Dannon, reacted to the report, saying in a statement on X -- quote -- "The fatal shooting that took place outside the event that took place at the Jewish Museum in Washington, D.C. in which Israeli employee -- embassy employees were also injured." He's calling it a depraved act of antisemitic terrorism. Of course, D.C. police, the FBI, others are investigating. We are
still in the infancy, John Miller, of what has taken place. The FBI field office working this issue. You've got the attorney general of the United States invested, it seems, already. The interim U.S. attorney in Washington, D.C., Jeanine Pirro, also on the scene.
This is fluid. And people have to understand how fluid the investigation can be at the moment that it happens.
MILLER: Well, you've got all of that going on. You've got the secretary of Homeland Security, which is the agency that also oversees the Secret Service, which --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
MILLER: -- has a very specific role in Washington, D.C. of protecting the embassies and foreign diplomats, not just the White House and presidential --
COATES: The staff included, presumably.
MILLER: I mean, any -- any threat to the -- to the diplomatic community in Washington, D.C. is -- is covered by the Secret Service uniform division, and any assault or investigation would also include them.
But as Juliette said, the FBI is going to be primary on this if, in fact, this steers towards this was an intentional shooting of foreign officials, be they diplomats or otherwise.
It is the kind of thing that could well shape up into an act of terrorism unless we find out, you know, very different information about what occurred. That would be the assumptions that they would open a case like this on would be -- let's start off with first assuming it may be terrorism, it may be targeted. And let's gather the facts, and then either peel that away or -- or prove it.
But this way, they're able to throw a tremendous amount of resources and legal tools at it that might not be available in another case.
COATES: Daniel, I want to bring you back into this because the -- the chronology and the timeline is going to be very important when you're trying to unpack what happened. If there was somebody who was a close- range shooter or somebody who was a shooter on the scene, that person may have left some sort of trace of their journey to that location either through the various street cameras or cameras that might be set up outside of this museum.
Many of the museums in the area, many buildings in this area in Washington, D.C., heck, around the whole country, will have certain surveillance or security cameras around it.
How important will that be in trying to reconstruct the path that whatever shooter took to get to that particular location?
BRUNNER: It's going to be really important for the investigators. I can't help but think about the UnitedHealthcare CEO shooting in New York City. Following the shooting, obviously, the pieces were put together. The video was seen him fleeing the area, and then having on a bike and getting to -- to the west side, you know, fleeing on a bicycle, and then moving, you know, westward in -- in a westward direction. So that gave investigators a clue and a direction and being able to piece together his pattern.
[23:50:02]
That's exactly what they're going to do right now. As John said, there is a lot of cameras around the area. This is right across the street from the Washington field office. There are numerous cameras in the area.
So, if this is just an individual who had a grudge against the Israeli embassy, then we'll see if there are cellular devices. You know, we're going to look for his cell phone, cell phone data, and then see if telephone calls were made. They're going to look at the towers. They're going to look at physical evidence. What physical evidence was left behind? You know, they're going to try and determine based on the cameras, based on witnesses.
So, all of this will be put together at the Crisis Command Center, and all this evidence pieces together. And when the Crisis Command Center is able to put together, they're able to paint a good picture of what actually happened here.
The FBI has the best ability to put all of these pieces together, and that's why they work very closely with the district -- the D.C. police and other ATF and all the federal authorities, you know, putting the pieces together and understanding his pattern, not only what he did after, but how he got there. How is his method of entry? Where was his egress? All of these, when they are able to get a physical description of the shooter, then they're going to paint the picture backwards and forwards, and build that investigation over time.
Again, we need to be very cautious about these initial reports and, you know, sending agents in the wrong direction based on these erroneous reports right off the beginning. Let the -- let the investigation progress and let the physical evidence, the video evidence, the cellular evidence, and internet traffic -- that's really going to define this investigation. And as it goes on, it's going to be -- it's going to be a long process.
COATES: A really important point. We're waiting for a press conference to start. We'll bring you what we know immediately when we have it.
We've got CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez, who's on the phone with me. I mean, Evan, this is, like, in the backyard -- heck, the front yard, from field offices in the heart of Washington, D.C. What can you tell us?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yeah. I mean, this -- this location is right across from the Washington field office of the FBI. The -- the Capitol Jewish Museum is right -- kind of cornered from there. And then, of course, Georgetown Law School is -- is right down the street, just another block away.
So, this is in the middle of -- of the heart of Washington. You have -- obviously, the federal courts are right, like, a couple blocks away. And the, you know -- you know, all of the court houses are right here.
So, for, you know, from a -- from a normal standpoint, you know, this is -- there's a lot of security in this area, and there's not a lot that happens at this time of night over here.
So, that's one of the things that's very -- that -- that really stood out as soon as we heard this. You know, made us pay attention.
COATES: Absolutely. I mean, the -- the boldness of the behavior and the shooting in the presence of all of these different things. And just in -- our audience is seeing right now, Evan, the amount of attention and pressure to find out what has happened because we are a hop, skip, and a jump from this location to places like Capitol Hill where you've got members of Congress --
PEREZ (via telephone): Right.
COATES: -- who are debating and undertaking legislative activities. You are down the street practically from the White House, from the FBI headquarters in Washington, D.C., from major transportation hubs like Union Station, the Amtrak train station. This is a very centralized area. To have this amount of -- of activity and police presence to find out what happened is very important.
Joining me now is the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations, Ambassador Danny Danon. Ambassador, thank you for joining us. We are hearing and learning details by the second about what happened. There's so much more to learn. Can you tell us what happened?
AMB. DANNY DANON, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Well, it is a very difficult night for the Jewish people, for the American people, to see a terror attack in the capital of the United States. You know, we are waiting to receive more information from the authorities.
But, you know, we have seen what happened in the last few weeks. We have seen the incitement on campuses. We have seen the incitement in many places. And unfortunately, today, we -- we faced a horrible terror attack against innocent people.
I'm sure that the authorities will make sure they will find out exactly who is behind it. But I think the more important issue is also to address the incitement. When people are spreading lies, blaming us on genocide, calling for intifada, for, like, armor revolt against Israel, that's the consequences we saw tonight.
COATES: Ambassador Danon, it seems pretty clear that you believe that this was an antisemitic attack, and I'm wondering about the victims, if you know. Were the staff members who were killed, were they attending the Jewish Museum event? Did you have any indication beforehand or threats that had been made that you were aware of? [23:55:00]
DANON: So, we cannot go into details at this stage. But, you know, when you have an event or a Jewish event in a Jewish museum, you know, there's no coincidence there. Somebody came with intentions. Unfortunately, it was successful, you know, wounding people, killing people.
I think it's horrible. And I think it's attack not against us, as Jews or Israelis. It's attack against the values of the United States of America, the freedom of the American people. And I think we'll have to go and look deeper about the incitement that we have seen in the last few weeks.
COATES: Do you know how many people were attending this event or whether it was open to the public?
DANON: Well, for -- what we can say, it was an event that was for young people who are involved in the community in Washington, D.C. area, came to show support, to have discussion. And unfortunately, they were targeted by this individual who was called.
COATES: Do you know how many people were in attendance as this was letting out?
DANON: Nobody. It wasn't a small event. You know, it was an event that was open to people who registered. And apparently, somebody found about it and committed this horrible crime.
You know, you have those kinds of events, Laura, every night in hundreds of locations all around the United States. And the fact somebody actually chose to target a Jewish event, you know, you have synagogue, you have Jewish community centers, you know, I'm sure now that the alerts will be higher in the next few days.
But, as I said earlier, you know, I'm sure all the American people condemn this attack and should condemn the violence and incitement we saw in the last few weeks.
COATES: This violence of tonight is certainly just unconscionable. Do you know anything about who they suspect has committed this horrible event?
MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: Good evening. I'm Muriel Bowser, mayor of Washington, D.C.
COATES: Oh, I'm going to listen to the press conference, ambassador. Excuse me.
BOWSER: I am here with --
DANON: Thank you.
BOWSER: -- the chief of the Metropolitan Police Department, Pamela Smith, and we are joined by members of the Washington, D.C. public safety team and our partners in the federal government, from the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the special agent in charge, as well as the assistant director in charge.
We are also joined by the attorney general for the United States, Pam Bondi, the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia, Judge Pirro, as well as the Israeli ambassador to the United States, Ambassador Leiter.
We are here at the MPD headquarters to provide an update on a horrific shooting that happened shortly after 9 p.m. this evening near the Capitol Jewish Museum.
I want to start by sending our condolences to the loved ones of the victims who were senselessly a victim of these crimes. I want to provide my prayers and condolences to the museum staff and the guests who are also gathering together in fellowship.
The chief will share preliminary information from the investigation. I will say upfront that there is no active threat in our community. What I do know is that the horrific incident is going to frighten a lot of people in our city and in our country.
And I want to be clear that we will not tolerate this violence or hate in our city. We will not tolerate any acts of terrorism, and we're going to stand together as a community in the coming days and weeks to send a clear message that we will not tolerate antisemitism.
I want to ask Chief Smith to talk about where we are with this investigation followed by our FBI partners, and lastly, Ambassador Leiter.
CHIEF PAMELA A. SMITH, CHIEF OF POLICE, METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: Thank you, madam mayor. I'm Chief Pamela A. Smith, chief of police for the Metropolitan Police Department, and I'll start by expressing my sincere condolences to both of the victims and the families, and also the attendees tonight at the Capitol Jewish Museum.
At approximately 9:08 p.m. tonight, we received multiple calls for a shooting in the area of Third Street and F Street Northwest. Officers located one adult male and one adult female unconscious and not breathing at the scene. D.C. Fire and EMS responded, and despite all life-saving efforts, both victims succumb to their injuries.
[00:00:02]
The preliminary investigation indicates that both victims were exiting in an event at the Capitol Jewish Museum.
