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Laura Coates Live
Trump's Agenda in Limbo as House Takes Key Vote; Diddy Acquitted on Most Serious Charges; "The Punisher" Speaks Out; Attorney for Diddy Accusers Speaks Out. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired July 02, 2025 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: A live look at the House floor where President Trump's agenda is in limbo. A key vote to move his marquee bill forward frozen as Republican holdouts remain. Live updates from the Hill as this very long and uncertain night goes on.
But first, the long awaited and dramatic verdict against Sean "Diddy" Combs. Tonight, on a special edition of "Laura Coates Live: Diddy on Trial."
Good evening. I'm Laura Coates. And what a day. It was a roller coaster in the Sean "Diddy" Combs trial. We got a verdict, a full verdict. We had a bail hearing. A motion swung in every direction. Diddy, his family, the victims, the witnesses, the defense, the prosecution, anyone invested in this case. It was dramatic for everyone it has touched. And I was there at that Lower Manhattan courthouse for all of it.
But there are two images that really sum up the day better than anything else. The first, Diddy on his knees, just moments after being acquitted of the most serious charges against him. The second, Diddy wide eyed and in disbelief about six hours later. That was when he realized that he wasn't walking out of the front door of that courthouse today, that he would be in jail, pending his sentencing possibly months from now.
He's still in jail right now because the judge denied him bail on the two counts that he was convicted of.
So here is the jury's final verdict: Count one, racketeering conspiracy, not guilty. Counts 2 and 4, sex trafficking, not guilty for both Cassie Ventura and his ex-girlfriend under a pseudonym, testifying as Jane. Counts 3 and 5, transportation to engage in prostitution, guilty for both Cassie and Jane.
Now, there is no question, this is a big win for the defense. Diddy was facing the prospect of life in prison. Now, that's off the table. And his lead attorney, Marc Agnifilo, praised the jury outside of court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARC AGNIFILO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR SEAN "DIDDY" COMBS: Today is a great victory. It's a great victory for Sean Combs. It's a great victory for the jury system. You saw that the Southern District of New York prosecutors came at him with all that they had. They're not stopping. But one thing stands between all of us and a prison, and that is a jury of 12 citizens. And we had a wonderful jury. They listened to every word, and they got the situation right or certainly right enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Agnifilo, he was just animated inside the courtroom. The judge made both sides argue for why he should or should not release Diddy until he was officially sentenced for those two counts. While Agnifilo, for his part, he tried to make the case for Diddy's release during that fiery bail hearing, arguing that he posed no threat and was a man who was a kind of a work in progress, not a violent offender.
But the judge pushed back, telling Agnifilo, you full-throatedly in your closing argument told the jury that there was violence here. Prosecutor Maureen Comey added, he's an extremely violent man with an extraordinarily dangerous temper who has shown no remorse and no regret for his multiple victims.
Agnifilo fired back, saying, listening to Mr. Comey makes me appreciate we have juries. The judge ultimately rejected bail.
So, the question now, how much prison time is Diddy actually facing? Well, we have some idea of what's being asked. Prosecutors say the sentencing guidelines call for at least 51 to 63 months in prison. That's about four to five years. They also noted it was a preliminary calculation and could push for more time.
And the defense, well, they want 21 to 27 months, and they point out Diddy has already been locked up for 10, which means they would be credited that amount in the final sentence.
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Now, the judge originally proposed a sentencing date of October 3, but the defense wants to move it up as much as possible. A hearing is now set for next Tuesday to figuring out what the schedule will ultimately be.
So, this case, which has cut across American culture from "Me Too" to debates over government power or overreach to questions about race and money isn't over yet.
Let's talk with CNN's Kara Scannell, who was in the courtroom when the verdict came down, has been following this trial and this case so closely, bringing us so much information, and we thank you for that. Kara, peel back the curtain for us right now. Go inside of that courtroom. What was happening when that jury delivered that verdict? KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, moments before the jury actually delivered the verdict, we knew there was a verdict, and everyone was kind of in this stunned moment.
Agnifilo had such a drawn look on his face. He looked so anxious, like a permanent frown. It was a very grave situation because this jury returned a verdict in almost record time. They heard over six weeks of testimony, and this verdict came down in just 13 hours.
But then once the judge got on the bench, said we have a verdict, the foreperson had the microphone, and the deputy said first count, racketeering conspiracy, how do you find? And the foreperson said not guilty.
But we heard -- you know, his -- his kids, his family are sitting there in the rows behind him. We heard a "yes" come out of the section where one of his sons was sitting. And then Diddy himself, he put his head in his hand.
The second count, the foreperson on sex trafficking of Cassie Ventura said not guilty. Diddy at that point had a mini fist pump in his chair, and we heard whew-whew from the audience where his friends were sitting. I mean, there was, like, an elation coming out of there, the relief in the courtroom at that moment.
Then the third count, he was found guilty of, but that one was the least serious, had the least amount of potential prison time.
And then this image, this image afterwards, where Diddy drops to his knees, leans on the chair, puts his hand in a prayer position. You know, he is still in federal custody.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
SCANNELL: So, he was swiftly removed from the courtroom. But he did have a moment to address his family. He was saying to them, you know, I love you, I love you, stay strong, as he was escorted out. And at that point, his friends and family filling these two rows, they erupted into applause as he was walked out of the courtroom, something for someone who is just convicted of two felonies.
COATES: What was the prosecution doing? This was quite the blow and some say a black eye to the -- what is sometimes called the Sovereign District of New York.
SCANNELL: The Sovereign District, which has an impeccable record, where they rarely lose any cases, especially when they go to trial.
I mean, like federal prosecutors, they all kind of kept a straight face. No one revealed any kind of emotion or disappointment. And when the time came, they filed out of the courtroom, you know, with sort of straight kind of faces, little smiles on as they were leaving. For them, this is still a partial victory. They do have him convicted. They were arguing vehemently for him to stay detained.
COATES: Uh-hmm. SCANNELL: You know, this is a case that they are still going to be proud of. Afterwards, they put out a statement that didn't say anything about the verdict, but just said that they understand the importance of victims being able to be heard and that this office is here to listen to them even going forward.
COATES: And the whiplash, of course, of having those acquittals and then denied bail. I want to talk about more of this. Thank you so much, Kara Scannell, for all of your reporting.
We've got a powerhouse panel with us. We've got CNN correspondent Elizabeth Wagmeister. We've got the former Manhattan D.A., of course, in the house with us, who has been with us throughout this as well, we've got Jeremy Saland, we've got Arthur Aidala, and we've got, of course, Misty Myers. Glad to have all of you here.
I'm so happy that Myers -- excuse me, Misty Marris. I gave you a new last name. Misty Marris. I'm glad to talk to you, all of you. Thank you. This has been very significant. I mean, how often have all of us sat at this table together and wondered and parsed through every single detail, let alone the notes themselves, and wondered what this jury was thinking?
Well, now we know from a hung jury, Jeremy, just 24 hours ago to all of a sudden no longer hung, and now acquittal on the highest charge, RICO. What's your reaction?
JEREMY SALAND, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER MANHATTAN PROSECUTOR: Yeah. Admittedly, I thought they were grappling with, you know, whether or not the predicate acts were made out and whether or not they were going to go with that first count. But I thought that there was going to be potentially conviction for sex trafficking for -- for Cassie. Obviously, the problem with reading a jury is you can't read the jury.
COATES: Right.
SALAND: You have no idea what they're going to do. But I think -- I think, you know, Marc Agnifilo was -- was the Aaron Judge bat to the southern district's ball. I mean, he really crushed it. And they didn't prove that case beyond a reasonable doubt. And they deserved what they got, meaning it's a reasonable result.
I think if you look at this objectively, you look at the evidence, and you certainly hold -- hold them to that standard, they didn't make out even one, even one, of the fraud, coercion or force allegations for sex trafficking. So --
COATES: Wait. I want to hold on that point for a second because that's so significant.
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Remember, the jurors went from seven weeks of testimony hearing about all these different incidents. For Cassie, over an 11-year period. For Jane, over several years. And at the end, they were told you only have to find one instance.
SALAND: Yeah.
COATES: You'll have many more to choose from, but only have to find one. They didn't find one in that.
And Misty, I have to ask you. Sex trafficking aside, there were questions from the get go. Did the prosecutors bring the right charges here when it came to RICO?
MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: I always thought RICO was a stretch. And I was waiting for that big moment where prosecutors explain to the jury and to those of us who are following the trial what exactly is this criminal enterprise.
And that never really gelled. It was never something that was distinct from Combs as an individual. It had no purpose. It had the means and methods were never really explained.
And it's pretty clear to me that that's where the jury found RICO to fall flat because we know he was convicted on the two counts of the Mann Act, which would have satisfied the predicate crime. So, clearly, they didn't see the conspiracy and enterprise components, so they didn't even have to get that far on RICO.
ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Along those lines, we can't forget the name Damian Williams. He was the U.S. attorney who brought this case. He was the U.S. attorney who wanted to make sure he made a name for himself when he was in that position, the way Pete Bharara did, the way Rudy Giuliani did. It has been known to be a tremendous stepping stone for prosecutors. He's the one who gives the directives on what to charge and what not to charge or at the very least approves it.
COATES: He's no longer there.
AIDALA: He's no longer there. He was -- he was President Biden's guy. Jay Clayton is now there, who's -- who's President Trump's guy. But he still had to go forward with it.
But this -- this RICO and the -- the drama around it, and let's go for life in prison, and let me put the most famous rapper away forever, that, in my opinion, was a prosecutor's judgment being fogged and -- and out of focus based on their own career aspirations, which is sad for the justice system, and that's one of the biggest reasons why I'm pleased with this jury's verdict.
COATES: Let me ask you, Elizabeth, because you've been following this meticulously and so well. Frankly, even since CNN exclusively obtained that now infamous tape of the savage assault that was done to Cassie Ventura that really then prompted the investigation at the federal level, we've heard a lot about the reaction of Combs and his family. You spoke to Cassie Ventura's attorney. Tell me what is she thinking.
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, I spoke to her attorney, Douglas Wigdor. And Cassie will not be speaking, at least right now. But he had just gotten off the phone with her when I sat down with him, and he said, she's really doing okay. He said, do not worry about Cassie Ventura. She's a great support system. She's very strong. I believe -- do we have a clip?
COATES: We do have some time.
WAGMEISTER: Okay.
COATES: I want to play it. Go ahead.
WAGMEISTER: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUGLAS WIGDOR, CASSIE VENTURA'S LAWYER: You know, I can tell you that some of the comments that were made in the closing argument, I -- I thought were repugnant, frankly, calling those sorts of behaviors as a modern-day relationship. You know, saying that she enjoyed sex. You know, saying she was a gangster. Things like that. I -- I -- I don't think, even with the jury verdict, that they would have given that any credit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGMEISTER: Okay. So there, what her attorney, Doug Wigdor, is talking about is Marc Agnifilo's closing argument. We were sitting there. You remember that he called this a modern-day love story.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
WAGMEISTER: He said that Cassie Ventura is the winner. The winner is the word that he used because he said she's sitting somewhere in this world with $30 million.
And I asked Doug. I said, how did she feel hearing Combs's defense call her the winner? Yes, she has a large sum of money from that settlement which, by the way, it was settled after, of course, Cassie filed her suit. He told me that Cassie had two options, which was take a large settlement, sign an NDA, or file her suit. She filed her suit, then she got the money.
But he said, look, this is a woman that we saw with our own two eyes being beaten to call her the winner. He found -- as you said, he used the word "repugnant."
But to go back to what I was saying, he said she's really doing okay, she feels comforted, she feels full of gratitude because she does believe that other people have come forward because of her coming forward.
COATES: And yet she also, through her attorney, told the court how she felt about him possibly being released and talked about a threat she felt might pose to the safety of herself or witnesses in this matter. The judge denied bail, in part saying this was somebody who was violent. And by the defense's own admission, that old adage of be careful what you say -- AIDALA: He can't -- you can't run -- his defense team couldn't run away from that --
COATES: So, is it fair for the judge, knowing that he wasn't convicted on those higher counts, to then take that into consideration? They can look at that as a judge. Right?
AIDALA: A 100%.
SALAND: Absolutely.
AIDALA: It's actually the law.
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It's actually the law when you get convicted on this count, which is a violent count, that the presumption is the judge is supposed to detain him.
COATES: So then game out the sentence for me, potentially. I know we're all thinking about this. And the prediction game is difficult because the judge can do this. But, you know, look at that disparage -- this -- this discrepancy between what you've got with the prosecution wants, like four to five years versus two or less from the defense. Where do you see this going?
SALAND: Yeah. I -- I think the prosecution is almost coming out at this as if we're sore losers, and that's not necessarily the right term here. But they should not be asking for significant incarceration in prison on a case where whether or not you can ask for more because of what we just discussed, allowing this to come in, these other charges-related evidence. But he wasn't convicted of that.
And how often, if ever, do you see people charged solely with the Mann Act? You had Eliot Spitzer who wasn't charged. He's accused of bringing people, women, across state lines for -- for sexual activity.
COATES: That's the discretion. Right? That's them as the bricks.
SALAND: Just because you can --
(LAUGHTER)
Just because you can doesn't mean you should. And someone should teach the southern district that lesson. Whether that comes from the judge or not, the jury certainly told them that.
COATES: I'm being facetious, obviously, but that's what prosecutors will talk about, their discretion to be able to charge if they think they can prove their case. But they've also got to continue all the way through sentencing and almost make their case yet again, Misty, to suggest why they think a particular sentence is appropriate.
MARRIS: Yeah.
COATES: What will it be? MARRIS: We really got a forecast of that through these letters relating to the bail hearing.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
MARRIS: And we know that what prosecutors are recommending, they did basically a preliminary calculation of what they believe would be the minimum under the guideline, and they've indicated that they're actually going to seek something higher.
I know this judge. I've -- I've had many cases before this judge. And I think he's going to be within the guidelines. I don't think you're going to see something upward on this particular --
COATES: How about a downward departure?
AIDALA: Right. I'm about to say, what about a downward?
MARRIS: Well, I think it's a possibility that you could see something closer to what the defense has set forth, which is, like, two and a half years, and then you're going to get that time served. I do think that's a that's a very reasonable outcome in this case. I don't think you're going to see something up towards that 10 or --
AIDALA: One thing, Misty, but here -- here's where I think the judge is going to hang his hat on to give him a little bit more time. One of the many factors on the 35 -- 53, which is the stupid law that you got to follow, but general deterrence. A judge -- there's two types of deterrence.
COATES: Is that called, like, poster child?
AIDALA: Yeah. But it's allowed. It's in the -- it's in the statute. There's specific deterrence. So, I have to give a sentence that's going to make sure Sean Combs isn't going to do this again. But I also have to give a sentence that tells the world, if you commit these types of crimes, this is the type of sentence you're going to get.
And I represented Anthony Weiner, and that's -- the -- the judge said, I don't think you're ever going to do this again, but I do think I need to send a message out there and sentence them more harshly than if he was Anthony Jones and nobody knew about it.
COATES: And by the way, the prosecution talked about this in their letter and into the court, the idea that he participated in these freak-offs and engaged in activity even while under investigation, showing a complete disregard for the law while the judge buys that or not really quickly because they're federal crimes.
President Trump in his first term did posthumously pardon somebody for the Mann Act. Very different circumstances. A far greater racial component inserted into that particular one was known as the White Slave Act at the time. A possibility here?
SALAND: You got the big, beautiful bill. You got the big, beautiful pardon. It's certainly possible. I put nothing past Donald Trump. Maybe it's something for his agenda. I don't want to get too political. That's not what we're doing here. But it'd certainly be frightening.
At the end of the day, whether I agree with it or not, there's a conviction. It should stand and let him do his time if that's what the judge requires.
COATES: Well, politics is happening on Capitol Hill. We're following that as well. Thank you so much, everyone. We got much more ahead tonight, including reaction from someone at the heart of the case who took the stand. Sharay "The Punisher" Hayes, the exotic dancer who testified about his freak-offs with Cassie, he's live in studio with me tonight to react to the verdict next.
But first, an update on the breaking news on Capitol Hill where Trump's agenda is still in limbo as the House takes up a key procedural vote. CNN's Lauren Fox is on Capitol Hill. Lauren, what's the latest?
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. It has been more than an hour and a half at this point, and this vote is still open. That is because leadership is hoping that the momentum and the pressure of being on the floor will start to change minds of some of those conservative holdouts that we are watching so closely right now.
Now, there are a couple of other moderate Republicans who we are also watching. Representative David Valadao, who hails from a district in California, he has yet to vote on this legislation. We also know that Brian Fitzpatrick, who is another Republican from a swing district in the state of Pennsylvania, he has voted no.
Now, there are currently four no votes. This has not gaveled.
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Leadership is holding this open for a reason because they believe that they may be able to change some minds here. We should note that Johnson can afford to lose three Republicans. He can't afford to lose four. And right now, there are still eight Republicans who have yet to vote.
So that just shows you all of the work ahead for Mike Johnson right now. He has to convince almost a dozen people to change their minds on this bill or at least be willing to get with the president's agenda here.
And, obviously, they felt like they needed to take this to the floor in part because they have been meeting behind closed doors all day long. And you can have these conversations in private. Putting it on the floor makes everything real.
As Steve Scalise said as he was walking onto the floor, you have to decide at some point how you're going to vote. This is the bill. So, clearly, leadership trying to impress upon members that this time for change, this time for sending it back to the Senate, that's over. The president wants this on his desk by the fourth of July. Laura? COATES: Just two days from now. Lauren Fox, thank you so much. We'll be back in a moment.
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COATES: My next guest testified during Sean "Diddy" Combs's seven- week trial. He was at the center of the freak-offs with Cassie Ventura and Diddy, and he believes his testimony may have contributed to how the jury felt about the most serious charges.
Sharay "The Punisher" Hayes joins me now. He's also the author of "In Search of Freezer Meat." I'm glad that you are back because I am curious about your reaction to this verdict. There was a not a finding of guilt when it comes to sex trafficking. Of course, the freak-offs at the center of that. What's your reaction?
SHARAY "THE PUNISHER" HAYES, EXOTIC DANCER WHO TESTIFIED AT DIDDY TRIAL: Believe it or not, it's -- it's what I expected. I always thought that the jury was going to have a hard time to separate the longstanding relationship that he had, especially with Ms. Ventura.
You know, when the defense pointed out all of these text message exchanges and not even about the sexual scenario, but the love and the care and this -- and how, you know, evolved this relationship was over these many years, I thought the jury would have a hard time plucking the scenarios out and saying, okay, this is coercion and that's sex trafficking.
COATES: Even when the prosecution said you only got to find one instance and that's enough, did that give you a little bit of pause?
HAYES: It did, but that would've -- that would've meant the jury would've had to go really vigilant, like, vigilantly strict with we're going to just disregard everything else and just focus on it.
And these are humans. Right? These are humans. I don't think you can make them just disregard that element that we all saw. You know, that was a loving relationship. It was a public relationship, you know. And then, obviously, then you couple that with tons of text messages that consent to the sexual activity.
COATES: Hmm.
HAYES: So, I think that definitely factored in. The personal relationships had to factor in because --
COATES: Yeah.
HAYES: -- if you're going vigilantly by the law, then he's guilty.
COATES: Yeah. You -- anyway, last year here, you talked about how you were apologetic in the sense that, hearing her views on how she now feels about some of the encounters overall in these freak-offs, that you didn't want to contribute to her feelings of regret or remorse in any way. But now, there's no finding of sex trafficking. That must feel good to you in a sense that the jury did not see her being trafficked in interactions with you.
HAYES: Well, I can't say that it feels good. Right? Because that's an interpretation of the law. You know?
COATES: Hmm.
HAYES: Her feelings are still her feelings. So, I'm going to have remorse and a connection to that. I think what it boils down to the jury is, now, do they crossed that domestic violence, you know, personal relationship, maybe manipulate -- manipulation and -- and that type of pressure from a relationship standpoint, and then transition in that to her being a sex-trafficked individual?
COATES: Hmm.
HAYES: I just don't think that -- that aligned.
COATES: He was found guilty, though, of transportation to engage in prostitution. You did not testify about having traveled across state lines, I understand. Right?
HAYES: Yes.
COATES: When you're with them in these encounters. But they did feel as though -- it was laughable at one point. They said that men who were invited to the hotels for freak-offs were paid for their time. You were adamant that you were not a prostitute. The other person who testified also saying that that's not how he viewed what he did or his engagement with either of them. How do you feel that the jury found that that was a guilty charge?
HAYES: Well, that -- that was probably the one charge that I thought he would be guilty of. And the thing that pointed out to me was, from my understanding, there were, on his American Express bill, plane tickets purchased. You know, accommodations made directly for guys that were coming to participate in freak-offs.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
HAYES: So, I thought that was a pretty easy interpretation of the law.
COATES: But not as it relates to you.
HAYES: Well, not as it relates to me. Again, because I didn't travel state to state. And I don't know if this was done on purpose. But I will say, even though sexual activity happened, it was never a conversation.
COATES: Really?
HAYES: We -- there were -- there was never a direct conversation about we are coming over and it's an expectation of sex.
COATES: But even after the first time you had sex and you were paid for it, you didn't expect the next time, it would be free.
HAYES: Well, see, the very first time, there was no sex, and I got paid for it. So, it -- so, the very first time, there was no sex. And then after it was over, it was a question from Ms. Ventura. That was, do you want to finish? As if it was my choice.
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So, again, I don't know if that was by design, but it was always kind of like almost set up, as if I paid you for your time, and now I'm giving you the option. And it was -- it was a very kind of almost like strategic circumstance because I -- there was never conversation about sites.
COATES: Do you think that part of your testimony helped the defense?
HAYES: I -- I have to assume. Right? If -- if they're looking for an element of consent. Right? And -- and that was the basis of my converse -- of my testimony. Actually, that was the basis of the defense bolstering my credibility about consent and me reading the room and her being comfortable, and they kind of focused on that to kind of, I guess, take away the possibility of her being under distress.
COATES: What did you -- I mean, all of us have been trying to figure out what this jury was thinking. Now, we know what they're thinking because the verdicts are there. But you testified in front of them. I know there were some nerves and anxiety about that process. But sitting there and telling your story in front of those jurors, did you ever get a sense of how they were feeling about it?
HAYES: No. So, I didn't connect to the -- to the jury because I -- there was, in my mock, preparation. There was so much anticipation that I was going to be attacked. And my credibility --
COATES: Who thought that? The prosecution?
HAYES: Prosecution, yeah, because --
COATES: That you would be attacked?
HAYES: -- they thought that I would be attacked. So --
COATES: What did they tell you?
HAYES: It's not that what they tell me. They -- we would do a mock. So, like -- kind of like a -- this is what they think is going to happen. So, it'll be a prosecutor acting like a defense attorney --
COATES: Hmm.
HAYES: -- and they would go through a question scenario. And the question was -- was -- all the questions were centered around me doing this for some sort of monetary gain or trying to sell my book or some incentive that wasn't genuine.
And so, because the defense went a completely different route, like, his first line to me was, I'm going to try to make this as easy for you as possible --
COATES: Hmm.
HAYES: -- it kind of disarmed me. You know? So, I just started having a casual conversation, expecting, okay, when is the attack going to come? That never came.
COATES: That's really interesting to think about how the prosecution anticipated your testimony would go and the case overall. Look, the jury has spoken. They've now been dismissed. In some ways, you're now infamous, aligned with this particular case. How does that make you feel? How do you put this behind you if you want to?
HAYES: You know what? I'm -- I'm -- at this point, I'm becoming at peace with it. You know? It was very difficult in the beginning because, you know, the -- the headline is just, you know, you go your whole life and now you're all over the world, prostitute, escort, and you don't know how that's going to land.
And I -- I just been fortunate enough. I thank you for platforms like this where I've been able to come and talk and speak and represent myself as an individual. And I -- I can honestly say, at least, the feedback and the response to me has not been negative. So, I'm -- I'm just managing it, making the most of it. And, you know, where some of our choices, and I'm just -- I'm rolling with it.
COATES: Do you regret your engagement with either of them?
HAYES: I told you, it's -- it's any of my regret because I'm a man. I'm going to take accountability. Right? So, I'm not going to look back on it and beat myself up. Again, my only regret would be as if my participation created a negative scenario for Ms. Ventura. As far as me, my decisions as a man, I did it. So, with it, you keep pushing through. I'm not going to look back and beat myself up or second guess it.
COATES: Sharay, thanks for coming back. Always interesting to hear your insight. And, of course, now that there has been a verdict, I appreciate it.
HAYES: Oh, thanks for having me.
COATES: Up next, Suge Knight reacts to the verdict from prison. What he told me about how he thinks the music industry is going to react. Plus, an update in Capitol Hill where President Trump's key policy agenda appears to be stalled.
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[23:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COATES: A live look at the House floor on Capitol Hill where a key vote to advance Trump's so-called big, beautiful bill is basically stalled.
Speaker Johnson says he's going to keep it open for as long as it takes as Republicans try to convince some holdouts to move forward. They can only afford to lose three Republican votes. And so far, it appears there are five GOP no votes. Again, the speaker is going to keep this open for a while, so things can change. We'll bring you any other updates from the Hill as the night goes on.
Tonight, a mixed verdict in the court of public opinion, at least within the music industry. Danity Kane member, Dawn Richard, who testified during the trial, calling the outcome a disappointment. And Aubrey O'Day writing, the cultural weight of this decision is immeasurable.
Diddy's longtime rival, 50 Cent, posting on Instagram, Diddy beat the RICO, that boy a bad man, he went on. Music artist Kesha opting to express support for Cassie Ventura. Cassie, I believe you. I love you. Your strength is a beacon for every survivor.
But rapper Boosie Badazz, he thinks his acquittal on the most serious charges is a win.
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BOOSIE BADAZZ, RAPPER: Man, I'm so glad Diddy is free, bro. You know, the reason is because I'm tired of seeing us Black moguls get took down like that. I don't feel he was guilty of nothing. You know, nothing but domestic violence.
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[23:40:00]
COATES: I want to bring in culture critic Kierna Mayo and also Diddy's former publicist and host of "Naughty But Nice with Rob Shuter," Rob Shuter.
Let me ask you about this first, Kierna.
KIERNA MAYO, CULTURAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah.
COATES: Will there be repercussions in the music industry?
MAYO: Sure. But repercussions, I don't think, is the right word, the right way to frame it. Will there be reverberations? Absolutely. Will this have impact? Will it affect the way we see him, but more importantly, the way victims report? I think that's the biggest takeaway from this moment. It's even bigger than the music industry, Laura, if I'm honest.
COATES: I bring in music industry, Kierna --
MAYO: Yeah. COATES: -- in part because of the power -- the power dynamic.
MAYO: Absolutely.
COATES: It was on display during trial.
MAYO: Absolutely.
COATES: At least Cassie being an employee and someone who's promised this 10-record label.
MAYO: Artist.
COATES: Does that impact the way in which this has been under a microscope here?
MAYO: I don't know. I -- I don't imagine that things will change that radically.
COATES: Hmm.
MAYO: See, things -- you know, the arc toward justice -- the arc toward justice, it bends but it bends kind of slowly. And the problem is that when you're talking about women and you're talking about survivors of gender-based violence, it takes a long time for people to connect the dots.
You heard the brother talk about how excited he was about Puffy getting off. And I understand the black impulse to kind of reflexively get behind Black men who are caught up in the criminal justice system. It makes sense. Look at criminal justice system. It -- it has not been fair to us ever, generally speaking. I'm generalizing.
COATES: Of course.
MAYO: Right? I understand you're an attorney, but you know it's my job to kind of speak for the common person's sentiment. The problem here is that we have a situation with someone who is so famous, so popular, so important that people cannot make the distinction between him, right, and his crimes.
So, you will have a new generation of artists who are thirsting for power, thirsting for access, who will be inclined to say, you know what? He's free, he didn't do this --
COATES: Hmm.
MAYO: -- and therefore, you know, everything continues as is.
COATES: Well, you know, on that point, just thinking about the way you're describing it, it's almost as if it's a kind of road map or one to follow.
MAYO: Yeah.
COATES: And -- and Rob, you and I have talked about this before in the sense that Diddy, in many ways, felt that he was the master of his own universe. And you heard many witnesses on the stand talk about how they compartmentalize the violence they saw, compartmentalize the anger or temper because they were participating in this kind of master class. Do you see any of what she's saying in terms of how Diddy even might view all of this?
ROB SHUTER, FORMER PUBLICIST OF SEAN "DIDDY" COMBS: Yeah. I would argue. I think at the moment, Diddy is feeling pretty good about himself. I think Diddy thinks, once again, he followed his own advice, and his own advice led him to this what he will consider a very successful outcome.
The bigger impact on this, though, that's something that I don't think we're going to know for a while. My fear is it could actually make things worse because now, young people who desperately want to get into the music business can rap about Diddy getting off, can -- can sing songs about -- about being free.
COATES: His own son, Christian, had an album, came out last week with Kanye, and one of the songs was actually -- I think it was called "Free Puff," talking about this.
I want you to finish your point, but earlier tonight, I did speak with Suge Knight, and I posed a similar question to him. He's currently serving his own time in prison. I asked him what he thought about the industry and whether it might welcome Diddy back. Listen.
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MARION "SUGE" KNIGHT, CO-FOUNDER AND FORMER CEO, DEATH ROW RECORDS: The industry is forgiving.
COATES: You think so?
KNIGHT: Yeah. I think the industry is driven by money, success and fun, because majority of the people in the industry is doing the same thing that Puffy was doing. Only thing different, they -- he got caught.
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COATES: I want you both to reflect on this. Rob, I'll -- I'll -- I'll let you finish your point because part of the work of -- that you've done in the past, including for Diddy, was to try to turn everything into a positive and maintain reputationally how the world would see him.
SHUTER: Yeah, yeah. When I worked with Puffy as his publicist, it was about getting his message out. Well, now, has a new message. Now, he has a message of maybe being a martyr, maybe being a survivor himself. Puffy is the greatest marketer I have ever met. Maybe not the greatest musician or even producer --
COATES: Hmm.
SHUTER: -- but nobody -- nobody markets. Nobody does P.R. like Puffy. I was Puffy's publicist, but that isn't true.
[23:45:00]
He was his own publicist. He taught me how to do this. And so, he's going to figure out how to use these last seven weeks, these last 10 months to his advantage. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if we don't see a new album or --
COATES: Wow.
SHUTER: -- maybe even a tour.
MAYO: Yeah.
COATES: Kierna, let me ask you because I've been asking viewers to give -- to weigh in.
MAYO: Yeah.
COATES: I think this question, I think, I'd love for you to answer. They've been sending in a slew of questions about this trial. And here's one I want to get your take on. It's Danny from Boston. And Danny asked, have you seen any differences in how racial and ethnic groups are responding to the trial? I know that was a narrative in the O.J. trials.
MAYO: Actually, to my earlier point, just anecdotally speaking, I have really heard a chorus of mostly men, I have to say, although a significant amount of women as well, cheering Puffy on, cheering Diddy on, being actually excited that he beat the system akin to what happened with O.J.
But also, similarly, there is, and what I'm most proud of and the real win, if you ask me, is Cassie's courage, is Jane's courage. The -- despite the outcome, the fact remains that anyone that says that there's a "me too" fatigue still has to contend with the fact that women are finding their voice.
The courage is really, really the domino that falls. It's that Cassie told at all that we're even here tonight. Right? Everything comes from the thing that has the shift inside of people who have survived.
So, for me, you know, that -- it all comes back down to how people, who have been abused, make their way in this world, mainly women of color. And when it comes to powerful men, we have a long way to go, but we've also come a long way. I don't think that we should see this as a loss.
And, by the way, had he been charged with everything and had to serve the rest of his life in prison, that wouldn't have been a win either. Right? If we all lose when things like this happen. The question is really, how do survivors remake themselves and how do we as a community support them in doing so?
COATES: Fascinating. Thank you both so much and for your coverage throughout the trial. I appreciate it both. Rob Shuter and Kierna Mayo.
I'm going to be unpacking every element of this trial this weekend on "The Whole Story." I'll dig into how we got here and what is next for Diddy. So, don't miss "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper: The Case Against Diddy," Saturday night at 8 Eastern, only on CNN.
Well, Diddy may have been acquitted on those serious charges in criminal court, but he still faces a mountain of civil lawsuits. Attorney Gloria Allred represents two of his accusers, and she is standing by on that part of the story next.
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[23:50:00]
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COATES: The day's long testimony from Cassie and Jane, the hotel surveillance video first reported by CNN, were all ultimately not enough to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Diddy forced or coerced these two women into sexual acts. And tonight, this verdict is raising new questions on just how powerful the hashtag "Me Too" movement still is.
Joining me now, victim's rights attorney Gloria Allred, representing two of the roughly 70 alleged victims who have filed civil lawsuits against Diddy, accusing him of sexual assault or other wrongdoing, allegations that Diddy denies. Gloria, welcome. You represented countless survivors of sexual assault. What was your immediate reaction when you first heard this verdict?
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY FOR DIDDY ACCUSERS: Well, you know, I never know what a jury is going to do, so I couldn't predict. I'm glad that they at least convicted him of two felonies.
COATES: Where do you think they fell short as a prosecution?
ALLRED: Well, for the prosecution, you know, it was a difficult case. I'm sure they hoped and expected a different result. But they didn't get it. But having said that, I wonder if the jury, for example, had problems with the consent on the issue of sex trafficking. And sitting here listening to your show and the panelists, I have an idea for important legislation --
COATES: Hmm.
ALLRED: -- that I'm hoping that I can propose and that could be, you know, particular -- maybe passed in the future, and that would be in the same way that if a victim is unconscious, in a coma, under the influence of drugs or narc -- or alcohol, she cannot consent, and there would be a presumption that she was, you know, raped. Even if she did consent, she couldn't, really. She doesn't have the capacity.
So, in the same way, if, in fact, she is beaten, victim of domestic violence, before or after she is sexually assaulted, then perhaps there should be a presumption -- COATES: Hmm.
ALLRED: -- that even if she said she was consenting, that she couldn't consent because of the violence against her. That's my thought that I had, inspired by your previous conversation on the show.
COATES: That is very interesting, to think about that. It also tracks in some ways the testimony of the expert, Don Hughes, who has talked about the brain being incapable of forgetting violence, and then navigating accordingly through every situation. Fascinating.
I also think there's this looming question as to whether the "Me Too" movement was also on trial in this case. Did the verdict deal blow to "Me Too?"
ALLRED: I don't feel that it did at all, Laura, because I'm constantly being contacted by women who have been the victims of violence, by the way, by some men who have been the victims of violence often by other men in a sexual situation.
[23:55:06]
So, they're also victims if they have been the -- you know, had injustice inflicted upon them. So, no, the -- the "Me Too" movement is alive and well, living in New York, living in California, all through this country, frankly, in the world. And so, they -- people have been inspired by Cassie's courage and the courage of other women who spoke.
I've actually represented other women who didn't testify but were prepared to testify in this case, and did speak to the prosecutors and law enforcement, and overcame their fear because they have a lot of fear that they would be retaliated against and, you know, perhaps become victimized by violence because they were speaking what they say was their truth to law enforcement.
They overcame it, they found the strength and courage, they are ready to seek justice and support Cassie and the others. They weren't going to be compensated in any way for that. They did it because it's the right thing to do.
So, I'm very proud of many people who came forward. And I say the "Me Too" movement is moving ahead, and we're continuing to seek justice through civil suits, through confidential settlements, without having to file a lawsuit, have privacy, also in the criminal justice system.
COATES: Gloria Allred, thank you so much.
ALLRED: Thank you.
COATES: Much more on the verdict ahead. Plus, we continue to keep a close eye on the House floor where a key vote on President Trump's agenda has hit a snafu. A live report from Capitol Hill next.
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